Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

Alexander Ortiz3 said:I’m always baffled by people who post without having any idea what they're actually talking about, but of course, I fully support freedom of speech for everyone—even those who are totally clueless on the subject.
Stopping sea arrivals is actually quite easy, especially if you have a navy like the Greeks or the Italians.
NO WAY YOU WILL NOT MAKE AUSTRALIA HOME

The rules apply to everyone: families, children, unaccompanied children, educated and skilled. There are no exceptions.
The message is the same in many different languages
https://www.youtube.com/user/AusCustomsNews/videos
and here too
https://www.border.gov.au/about/oper...-communication

See how easily it can be done☕

Refugees certainly have the right to enter the first safe country they reach. I'd love an explanation as to why Turkey isn't considered a safe country, for instance, for Christians, so that anyone needing to continue their journey away from an unsafe Turkey could move forward.
I still stand by my position that I don't support any kind of discrimination among immigrants on any basis whatsoever.

Unlike Italy or Greece, the US is a free nation—it isn't acting as some sort of vassal to others. Furthermore, the US has already established protocols regarding where to return these vessels. To whom would the Italians return them? Perhaps to Libya, which refuses to take them back and where ISIS is slowly but surely gaining control?
Or where should the Greeks send them if Turkey blocks their entry into their own waters?
I maintain that pressure needs to be applied to Turkey, as they more or less profit from the plight of migrants. And, naturally, there must be an attempt to stabilize the situation in Libya.

Paul Kern12 said:Unlike Italy or Greece, the US is a free nation—it isn't acting as some sort of vassal to others. Furthermore, the US has already established protocols regarding where to return these vessels. To whom would the Italians return them? Perhaps to Libya, which refuses to take them back and where ISIS is slowly but surely gaining control?
Or where should the Greeks send them if Turkey blocks their entry into their own waters?
I maintain that pressure needs to be applied to Turkey, as they more or less profit from the plight of migrants. And, naturally, there must be an attempt to stabilize the situation in Libya.

The USA pays massive sums of money to Egypt just to ensure Egypt maintains good relations with Israel.
First off, the main beneficiary here is the Egyptian military. They are the only force in Egypt capable of posing any real threat to Israel; obviously, street vendors or market stalls in Cairo aren't going to be a power that threatens anyone, especially not Israel.
The European Union should simply "lease" an island or some specific territory from Egypt to serve as a processing center for returning migrants. From there, Egypt can shuttle those people back to their home countries at their own discretion and pace, whenever they feel it's feasible—it shouldn't matter to us. In exchange, the EU would cover all the operational costs for Egypt. It doesn't even have to be Egypt; it could be Tunis, Algeria, or Morocco...
Every problem has a solution, no matter how much you all try to find flaws in every single one. 😉
But since EU member states can't even agree on whether they want immigrants or not—even though opposition is growing—that point about vassal states holds water. Everything is doable; it's just a question of political will.
Just six months ago, some people were insisting that a border fence wouldn't stop migrants, as if we were dealing with actual superheroes. Yet, they already had examples in Canada and Bulgaria, and now they have North Mexico too.

Blank Page Asks:
If that's the case, then what exactly is the purpose of having the Coast Guard, police vessels, and naval ships out there at all?
So, what exactly is the logic here? Are you suggesting we just open the gates to absolutely anyone who happens to wander onto the pier?

I am at a complete loss to understand your meaning—are you truly suggesting that our maritime borders cannot be defended?
If we cannot even defend our own maritime borders, how can we expect to prevent half of East Asia from drifting right into Australia?

No, when it comes to what unfolds within your own borders, you alone bear the ultimate responsibility.
If I were to open my front door tomorrow and let five complete strangers wander into my living room, only to start weeping and demanding that you welcome at least two of them into your own home, what exactly would you say to me? Would you argue that because we live in the same neighborhood, we are somehow obligated to share? I am certainly not responsible for their intrusion; if they ended up on my doorstep, it was only because someone across the street directed them my way.

When it comes to your own home, your country, or whatever else, the responsibility rests solely on your shoulders—no one else can carry that weight for you. We Americans cannot simply march up to the Mexican border and attempt to defend it against the sovereign will of another nation. If their intention is to allow these people to enter their territory, then that is their prerogative. Fine, if that is the case, then they must be the ones to manage them. 🤷

Blank Page, I find myself in complete agreement with your assessment. It seems those lazy Greeks, having spent their lives living far beyond their means, are now desperately hunting for the 13th and 14th amendments—resorting to that typical soldierly whining for extra stipends just to keep their gear polished and their boots shined. Now that they are actually being pressured to perform, they refuse to budge an inch when it comes to defending our shared borders. And let’s not forget that half of their national debt was squandered on military spending and equipment in the first place.

Alexander Ortiz3 Asks:
Preventing maritime incursions is remarkably straightforward, especially when you possess a navy comparable to that of Italy or Greece.
Is it truly possible to believe that you will never find a sense of belonging in Australia?

Does anyone truly believe that laws should be selective? These regulations must be applied universally—to families, to children, even to those traveling alone, and regardless of one's education or professional expertise. There can be absolutely no exceptions.
The message remains identical across many different languages.
Can one truly grasp the sheer magnitude of the operational complexities faced by our customs agencies through mere digital observation? Is it possible that watching these video updates provides us with a window into the relentless vigilance required to secure our borders?
And here we are.
How can we truly ensure that our national security protocols remain robust while simultaneously upholding the principles of transparency and public trust? Is it possible to strike that perfect balance between protecting sensitive operational data and keeping the American people informed about the vital work being done at our borders?

Do you see how it can be done? ☕

IIvona Živković — Greece’s shameless games, played without any regard for boundaries. Could there be any greater injustice than what we are witnessing regarding the situation in Greece and their decision to permit these migrants entry? Is it not our fundamental duty to protect our own borders and preserve the sanctity of our nation?

Could one even begin to fathom the sheer magnitude of what lies ahead? Is it not our collective responsibility to face these unfolding circumstances with unwavering resolve and profound sincerity? The speaker says:
Unlike Italy or Greece, Australia stands as a truly sovereign nation, not acting as a mere vassal state to anyone else. Furthermore, Australia actually has a clear plan for where to send these vessels; but tell me, who would the Italians even return them to? Would they send them back to Libya, a country that refuses to take them, and where ISIS is steadily seizing control?
Or where exactly should the Greeks send them when Turkey keeps pushing the borders right into their waters?
I am telling you, there needs to be serious pressure placed on Turkey, because they are more or less profiting from this migrant crisis. And, of course, we must work to stabilize the situation in Libya.

Pressure must be applied to both Greece and Turkey. It seems quite clear that ISIS is essentially Turkey's right hand. They are being trained within Turkey using Arab funding, all while being guided by instructors from Western nations.

Paul Kern12 said:Unlike Italy or Greece, the US is a free nation—it isn't acting as some sort of vassal to others. Furthermore, the US has already established protocols regarding where to return these vessels. To whom would the Italians return them? Perhaps to Libya, which refuses to take them back and where ISIS is slowly but surely gaining control?
Or where should the Greeks send them if Turkey blocks their entry into their own waters?
I maintain that pressure needs to be applied to Turkey, as they more or less profit from the plight of migrants. And, naturally, there must be an attempt to stabilize the situation in Libya.

In my opinion, the Greeks shouldn't even let migrants enter their waters in the first place—and the same goes for the Italians, no matter how harsh they have to be to stop it. As long as the idiots in the EU keep playing pretend with their "humanitarian" act, people are just going to keep coming, probably from all over Africa and Asia. It’s like migrants follow this logic: if they let these ones through now, maybe they'll let me in too.

Given how things in Turkey seem to be getting more volatile by the day, all these sudden announcements about major deals are starting to feel—to put it mildly—a bit suspicious.
The real question is what the Turkish people will actually do, and I’m honestly not convinced this can play out according to the EU leadership's grand vision.

For us, it really boils down to one thing: more fences, walls, trenches, drones, police, the military, and maybe even some friendly aliens guarding the border.
No one is going to step up to help anyone else here—this is a "every man for himself" kind of game, and I’m worried things might only get worse...

Turkey is teetering on the edge of a civil war, yet the European Union keeps holding summits with them.

Angela Merkel is facing an electoral disaster, while VB makes her exit from the European Union.

I guess some pretty wild times are headed our way.

I don't follow what you mean by that. If you're trying to make a point, could you clarify? I prefer to keep our discussions focused and clear. kaže:
I think we need to take a closer look at how these economic shifts are actually playing out on the ground. It’s easy to get lost in the high-level data, but when you talk to people in small towns across the Midwest, the reality feels much more fragile than what the headlines suggest. I remember visiting a friend in Ohio last fall; he was seeing firsthand how local manufacturing hubs are struggling to adapt to these new global trade pressures. It isn't just numbers on a spreadsheet—it's livelihoods. We should probably approach this with a bit more caution before jumping to conclusions about a full recovery.Ivona Živković — Greece’s shameless games, ignoring all boundaries. Here’s a breakdown of what’s actually happening with the situation in Greece and their policy on letting migrants through.

This is such a terrible read... honestly, you only have to check their homepage to see the absolute nonsense they put out there.
She started talking about those massive defense spending hikes, and then she just went off, rattling off every possible reason she could think of—trying her hardest to frame them all as absolute facts.
She managed to cram the CIA, BRICS, Angela Merkel, Vujcic, Arabs, and the IMF all into a single article.

Lisa Patel4 said:Turkey is teetering on the edge of a civil war, yet the European Union keeps holding summits with them.

Angela Merkel is facing an electoral disaster, while VB makes her exit from the European Union.

I guess some pretty wild times are headed our way.

I absolutely loathe "interesting" times!

Raymond Anderson4 said:

I don't follow what you mean by that. If you're trying to make a point, could you clarify? I prefer to keep our discussions focused and clear. kaže:
I think we need to take a closer look at how these economic shifts are actually playing out on the ground. It’s easy to get lost in the high-level data, but when you talk to people in small towns across the Midwest, the reality feels much more fragile than what the headlines suggest. I remember visiting a friend in Ohio last fall; he was seeing firsthand how local manufacturing hubs are struggling to adapt to these new global trade pressures. It isn't just numbers on a spreadsheet—it's livelihoods. We should probably approach this with a bit more caution before jumping to conclusions about a full recovery.Ivona Živković — Greece’s shameless games, ignoring all boundaries. Here’s a breakdown of what’s actually happening with the situation in Greece and their policy on letting migrants through.

This is such a terrible read... honestly, you only have to check their homepage to see the absolute nonsense they put out there.
She started talking about those massive defense spending hikes, and then she just went off, rattling off every possible reason she could think of—trying her hardest to frame them all as absolute facts.
She managed to cram the CIA, BRICS, Angela Merkel, Vujcic, Arabs, and the IMF all into a single article.

Oh, please. One really ought to develop a sense of critical thinking and learn how to distinguish between total garbage and actual facts for oneself. If she hadn't mentioned that Greece blew through roughly 180 billion dollars on defense, who knows when I would have ever encountered that specific data point—if I had even found it at all.

In this way, she provided me with a much broader perspective on the entire situation.

Lisa Patel4 said:Turkey is teetering on the edge of a civil war, yet the European Union keeps holding summits with them.

Angela Merkel is facing an electoral disaster, while VB makes her exit from the European Union.

I guess some pretty wild times are headed our way.

Honestly, vb isn't going anywhere—they haven't reached critical mass yet, not to mention the fact that they don't even have a clear plan once they get there.

Turkey is definitely a major issue, plain and simple.
The European Union is in complete chaos, too—no question about it.
Even those quiet bureaucrats over in Brussels have stopped chiming in on everything... that kind of silence is actually quite unsettling.

We shall see. A massive political defeat for Merkel at the general elections might actually be good for everyone, especially the European Union. Right now, we just have this fragmentation: some are openly opposing things, others are cooperating (mostly due to various economic ties), and many are just shouting into the void...

It really boils down to the fact that Merkel is politically isolated. The only reason she hasn't been clearly outvoted and sidelined by the rest of the European Union is because of certain economic arrangements.
But eventually, politics will take precedence—money can't buy everything...

Paul Thomas46 said:Honestly, vb isn't going anywhere—they haven't reached critical mass yet, not to mention the fact that they don't even have a clear plan once they get there.

Turkey is definitely a major issue, plain and simple.
The European Union is in complete chaos, too—no question about it.
Even those quiet bureaucrats over in Brussels have stopped chiming in on everything... that kind of silence is actually quite unsettling.

We shall see. A massive political defeat for Merkel at the general elections might actually be good for everyone, especially the European Union. Right now, we just have this fragmentation: some are openly opposing things, others are cooperating (mostly due to various economic ties), and many are just shouting into the void...

It really boils down to the fact that Merkel is politically isolated. The only reason she hasn't been clearly outvoted and sidelined by the rest of the European Union is because of certain economic arrangements.
But eventually, politics will take precedence—money can't buy everything...

VB is practically a state within a state. It’ll probably just stay a pro forma part of the EU while doing its own thing regardless.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone puts a bit of pressure on Merkel and she just quits on her own.

Merkel is dangerously provoking radicalization in Germany, which won't end well. I guess the German mentality doesn't handle being humiliated or suppressed. Germans tend to solve everything through radical means.
I expect we'll see the same thing happen in France.

Every policy comes with its inevitable consequences.

Nicole Barrett76 said:I absolutely loathe "interesting" times!

Oh, please. One really ought to develop a sense of critical thinking and learn how to distinguish between total garbage and actual facts for oneself. If she hadn't mentioned that Greece blew through roughly 180 billion dollars on defense, who knows when I would have ever encountered that specific data point—if I had even found it at all.

In this way, she provided me with a much broader perspective on the entire situation.

The way this author writes articles is a perfect example of why misinformation spreads so fast. People just latch onto the first thing they read without questioning it, which makes her claims incredibly shaky.
I’d suggest picking up a recent copy of The New York Times. There's an excellent commentary in there explaining how emotional doctrines are being used as tools to shape the public mindset, often at the expense of any rational analysis.

Paul Kern12 said:Without any intention of defending Greece, I find myself disagreeing with what has been written here.
As far as I am aware, the migrants arrive in Greece from Turkey via sea routes. When they enter Greek waters on small boats, what exactly is Greece supposed to do?
Open fire on inflatable boats?
They cannot simply return them to Turkey, because Turkey does not permit Greek vessels to enter their waters.
It isn't necessarily Greece's fault—it is Turkey's. This situation seems to suit them most, and we see how they use it as leverage to extract as much as they possibly can.
The issue lies with Turkey, rather than so much with Greece.

So what should they do about the rafts??
I guess they should just hire the Australian Coast Guard. They even have training courses in Australia.
Use fast boats to push the rafts right back toward Turkey.
Anyone who sinks a raft should be sent to some isolated island with no access to other boats or ferries. Set up a way of life on the island until they figure out where they actually came from so they can be sent back.
That way, economic migrants will never make it off that island.
The Australians aren't stupid for doing things that way.
It's all Greece and Germany's fault.

So, let me get this straight—Turkey gets handed billions in aid, they funnel refugees into Europe, their visa restrictions get slashed, and then they basically get fast-tracked into the EU?

Gotta admit, it’s one hell of a sweet deal.

Raymond Anderson4 said:The way this author writes articles is a perfect example of why misinformation spreads so fast. People just latch onto the first thing they read without questioning it, which makes her claims incredibly shaky.
I’d suggest picking up a recent copy of The New York Times. There's an excellent commentary in there explaining how emotional doctrines are being used as tools to shape the public mindset, often at the expense of any rational analysis.

That idea about using emotion to mold the masses and kill off rational thought is pretty interesting...
It’s a lot like the doctrine of fear. It's the same result, just achieved through a different route.
The catch is, you need both the media and the politicians on your side to pull off that kind of emotional manipulation.
Without those two working together, you don't get the emotional doctrine (or the fear-mongering).
Look at Canada as an example. You can see how a certain type of far-right thinking stays grounded because they don't have the media outlets willing to push an emotional agenda. Instead, they rely on a doctrine of fear.
It's madness.😁
But man, the success rate of controlling crowds through the media is incredible—they'll write anything if it sounds "shocking."🤦

Hiking right over the ridge, crossing the river...

http://hr.n1info.com/a110549/Svijet/...omenija-/FOTO/

I’ve got no clue what the actual numbers are right now at the border between North Mexico and Greece—how many left the camps, how many actually crossed over... but honestly, I think the US should have stepped up to help North Mexico, and it's not even too late yet.

I mean, send in some police, maybe some military support... It doesn't need to be a massive force, but if every country decided to chip in just 300 soldiers... that's 3,000 extra boots on the ground from just 10 nations to secure the entrance to Europe. If everyone makes a tiny contribution, you can actually move the needle. Then again, the real question is how many people would actually be motivated to head over to North Mexico, though at the end of the day, it's literally their job and they get paid for it... So...🤷

Treating refugees and migrants like this—leaving them out in the mud and the cold in these subhuman conditions—is just wrong... Today, tomorrow, if these people manage to break through into Europe, they aren't going to forget this nightmare, and they'll definitely make sure we pay for the ordeal they went through (especially if there are any terrorist elements mixed in among them)

Peter Brooks5 said:That idea about using emotion to mold the masses and kill off rational thought is pretty interesting...
It’s a lot like the doctrine of fear. It's the same result, just achieved through a different route.
The catch is, you need both the media and the politicians on your side to pull off that kind of emotional manipulation.
Without those two working together, you don't get the emotional doctrine (or the fear-mongering).
Look at Canada as an example. You can see how a certain type of far-right thinking stays grounded because they don't have the media outlets willing to push an emotional agenda. Instead, they rely on a doctrine of fear.
It's madness.😁
But man, the success rate of controlling crowds through the media is incredible—they'll write anything if it sounds "shocking."🤦

Personally, I am much more bothered by the topics I've been discussing here.

We have reached a point where it is taken for granted that a sovereign nation should allow thousands of random outsiders onto its territory—and then, naturally, it's treated as if this becomes a problem for the entire continent.
People act as if the EU actually has the authority to debate who belongs on whose soil (they simply don't)...
There's also this assumption that anyone can just cross a border because they are "escaping poverty."

And finally, the phrase "escaping poverty" is being used so casually as if it were perfectly logical and easy to grasp. No one even questions it anymore. It’s at the point where people could start writing academic papers on it.
What is truly concerning is how easily these narratives are sold to people facing their own struggles—people like us—because they can find common ground with that struggle. The fact that such identification is completely misplaced seems to matter less and less. The real danger lies in the possibility that countries like ours might eventually be marketed as "sanctuaries from poverty."

And I've only just begun...😁

Paul Thomas46 said:Personally, I am much more bothered by the topics I've been discussing here.

We have reached a point where it is taken for granted that a sovereign nation should allow thousands of random outsiders onto its territory—and then, naturally, it's treated as if this becomes a problem for the entire continent.
People act as if the EU actually has the authority to debate who belongs on whose soil (they simply don't)...
There's also this assumption that anyone can just cross a border because they are "escaping poverty."

And finally, the phrase "escaping poverty" is being used so casually as if it were perfectly logical and easy to grasp. No one even questions it anymore. It’s at the point where people could start writing academic papers on it.
What is truly concerning is how easily these narratives are sold to people facing their own struggles—people like us—because they can find common ground with that struggle. The fact that such identification is completely misplaced seems to matter less and less. The real danger lies in the possibility that countries like ours might eventually be marketed as "sanctuaries from poverty."

And I've only just begun...😁

I'm telling you, I'm scared this is just the beginning.

Mexican authorities just rounded up some foreign journalists and photographers who were documenting the migrant situation (and if you ask a Canadian, they’d probably say the cops likely pushed them right into the river...)

http://hr.n1info.com/a110549/Svijet/...ovinara-/FOTO/

Thousands of migrants are trekking north according to TIME

summary free translation :

With the North American route shut down, thousands of refugees left the Idomeneus camp on Monday and started heading north on foot. Migrants looking for alternative ways to cross the border into Mexico are being surrounded and monitored by local police. According to Austrian authorities via TIME, this walking route seems to have been planned well in advance; they were actually handed flyers detailing their new path.

After about five miles, roughly 2,000 refugees crossed the Suva River, located just a few hundred yards from the Mexican border. Eyewitnesses say there are about 2,000 people trying to cross at a spot where the wire fence hasn't been installed yet, per the Associated Press.

...

I'm done translating... 😳 I'm done thinking. 😳
who's handing out the flyers? 😳