Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

Betty Allen15 said:If this were the absolute last group of migrants we ever had to process, honestly, I wouldn’t be losing any sleep over it. But let's be real—it's never just one group, is it? It’s one wave after another, an endless loop, and I’m genuinely worried there won't be an end in sight. At some point, someone needs to actually step up, draw a line in the sand, and say "enough." We need to decide on a hard cap for how many people America can realistically take in, and once we hit that number, the door stays shut.

But even if you set a cap, you're still playing judge and jury... which leaves you right back where you started.

Look, you either stop them now or you never will. At this rate, we're looking at 10 million more arriving over the next decade. If you're okay with 10, why not 20? Or 50? Or 100? Good grief...

Paul Thomas46 said:Greece keeps letting everyone walk right through their borders—and then they have the nerve to lecture us about "humanity" and "solidarity" and all that EU nonsense.

😕

Since they’re the ones opening the doors themselves, why should anyone else give a damn? They fell, they failed... it's on them.
But no, they try to spin it like this is some massive crisis affecting the entire continent.

They have an army and a police force at their disposal. Once they joined Schengen, they were handed equipment and everything else needed to monitor those damn borders. HANDED. Someone (US taxpayers) paid for every single piece of gear specifically to watch and protect the EU border.
And yet, they aren't doing a thing. They're breaking every agreement and regulation on the books.
Now suddenly it's everyone else's problem because they won't do the job they were actually equipped to do. If they want to handle it, fine—but let them deal with their own mess...

The Canadians, Bulgarians, and especially the Mexicans 🙏
The Canadians and Austrians—well, they're just okay, I suppose.
As for the Greeks, Mexicans, and Americans—they used to be subservient, and it looks like they haven't changed a bit.

Paul Thomas46 said:But even if you set a cap, you're still playing judge and jury... which leaves you right back where you started.

Look, you either stop them now or you never will. At this rate, we're looking at 10 million more arriving over the next decade. If you're okay with 10, why not 20? Or 50? Or 100? Good grief...

Germany is acting like they’re some kind of saint, thinking they can just swoop in and fix birth rates for the entire continent instead of just worrying about their own damn backyard. Like, seriously? It's such a classic move—acting like they have all the answers for everyone else when they should probably just focus on getting their own house in order first. It’s honestly pretty exhausting watching this kind of grandstanding. 😁 🤦

It’s funny how things play out—once Europeans finally caught on to the fact that half the Muslim population is basically illiterate and the other half is just working manual labor gigs, everything started shifting. Now you've got the French hitting the panic button too, revolting against those ridiculous quotas and all the shady little deals they've been trying to strike with Turkey. It's like everyone is waking up to the same mess at once.

If they had any way of knowing for certain that he wasn't coming back, they probably would have just let those 15,000 people who got stuck move on. But then again, everyone would be thinking the exact same thing. ☕

And honestly, it would just be a never-ending cycle. Like Sandra Nelson59 mentioned earlier in the thread, there comes a point where you just have to cut your losses and say enough is enough.
I find it a bit surprising, though, how easily they seemed to throw in the towel. I have a feeling they’ll definitely try to pivot and find some new direction soon.

David Vaughn75 said:Germany is acting like they’re some kind of saint, thinking they can just swoop in and fix birth rates for the entire continent instead of just worrying about their own damn backyard. Like, seriously? It's such a classic move—acting like they have all the answers for everyone else when they should probably just focus on getting their own house in order first. It’s honestly pretty exhausting watching this kind of grandstanding. 😁 🤦

It’s funny how things play out—once Europeans finally caught on to the fact that half the Muslim population is basically illiterate and the other half is just working manual labor gigs, everything started shifting. Now you've got the French hitting the panic button too, revolting against those ridiculous quotas and all the shady little deals they've been trying to strike with Turkey. It's like everyone is waking up to the same mess at once.

I truly don't mean this as a personal slight, but weren't you quite vocal—and, if I recall correctly, rather enthusiastic—about advocating for open borders in Europe just a few months ago? 🤔

neonhound18 said:I truly don't mean this as a personal slight, but weren't you quite vocal—and, if I recall correctly, rather enthusiastic—about advocating for open borders in Europe just a few months ago? 🤔

I’ve never been one to cheer for just letting millions of migrants flood in without any vetting—that's just asking for chaos—but I *have* spent my fair share of time fighting back against those fascist types who look at every single Muslim person and see nothing but criminals or rapists.

There are always two sides to every coin. 😉

David Vaughn75 said:I’ve never been one to cheer for just letting millions of migrants flood in without any vetting—that's just asking for chaos—but I *have* spent my fair share of time fighting back against those fascist types who look at every single Muslim person and see nothing but criminals or rapists.

There are always two sides to every coin. 😉

Now, nobody is actually claiming that every Muslim is a criminal or a predator, but one has to wonder—how on earth do you propose to manage a massive influx of desperate people all concentrated in one single location? 🕺

neonhound18 said:Now, nobody is actually claiming that every Muslim is a criminal or a predator, but one has to wonder—how on earth do you propose to manage a massive influx of desperate people all concentrated in one single location? 🕺

That’s just how most people see it, though. Reports coming out of the camps don't exactly help our cause. When you watch those clips, all you see is chaos—crowds shoving and fighting for space. It creates a certain kind of tension in the surrounding areas, which isn't ideal. It’s especially tough when citizens in the country they’re trying to enter witness scenes like that.

Check out this weird encounter between refugees and people dressed up in animal masks and cartoon costumes—it all went down in Canada.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/03...n_9432534.html

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...s10n-2-web.jpg

Paul Thomas46 said:Greece keeps letting everyone walk right through their borders—and then they have the nerve to lecture us about "humanity" and "solidarity" and all that EU nonsense.

😕

Since they’re the ones opening the doors themselves, why should anyone else give a damn? They fell, they failed... it's on them.
But no, they try to spin it like this is some massive crisis affecting the entire continent.

They have an army and a police force at their disposal. Once they joined Schengen, they were handed equipment and everything else needed to monitor those damn borders. HANDED. Someone (US taxpayers) paid for every single piece of gear specifically to watch and protect the EU border.
And yet, they aren't doing a thing. They're breaking every agreement and regulation on the books.
Now suddenly it's everyone else's problem because they won't do the job they were actually equipped to do. If they want to handle it, fine—but let them deal with their own mess...

Without any intention of defending Greece, I find myself disagreeing with what has been written here.
As far as I am aware, the migrants arrive in Greece from Turkey via sea routes. When they enter Greek waters on small boats, what exactly is Greece supposed to do?
Open fire on inflatable boats?
They cannot simply return them to Turkey, because Turkey does not permit Greek vessels to enter their waters.
It isn't necessarily Greece's fault—it is Turkey's. This situation seems to suit them most, and we see how they use it as leverage to extract as much as they possibly can.
The issue lies with Turkey, rather than so much with Greece.

Sophia Ramos5 said:News via CNN

Graphic News just released reports on potential new routes toward Germany. This comes after the shutdown of the usual southern corridors caused total chaos and unrest among migrants still pouring into Greece.

http://www.cnn.com/news/refugees...poland-464827

Citing Graphic News.
https://www.graphicnews.org/pages/en/34038/

Is this just someone messing around with maps and calling it news? Or are these actual instructions for migrants?

The Bulgarians are waiting for them with open arms ☕

Paul Thomas46 said:Greece keeps letting everyone walk right through their borders—and then they have the nerve to lecture us about "humanity" and "solidarity" and all that EU nonsense.

😕

Since they’re the ones opening the doors themselves, why should anyone else give a damn? They fell, they failed... it's on them.
But no, they try to spin it like this is some massive crisis affecting the entire continent.

They have an army and a police force at their disposal. Once they joined Schengen, they were handed equipment and everything else needed to monitor those damn borders. HANDED. Someone (US taxpayers) paid for every single piece of gear specifically to watch and protect the EU border.
And yet, they aren't doing a thing. They're breaking every agreement and regulation on the books.
Now suddenly it's everyone else's problem because they won't do the job they were actually equipped to do. If they want to handle it, fine—but let them deal with their own mess...

Greece is a member of the EU and Schengen.
They can either zealously defend Schengen (and ask for help while doing so), or they can handle all those economic migrants crossing their borders themselves (and perhaps request some funds from the EU for that).
What's the third option?
But the Greek policy seems to be: since Germany won't forgive their debts—not at any price—then Greece will bury Germany under immigrants to get back at them.
In all of this, Turkey also has an interest in blackmailing the EU through migrants. And so, the Greek and the Turk become brothers in arms in this business.

David Vaughn75 said:I’ve never been one to cheer for just letting millions of migrants flood in without any vetting—that's just asking for chaos—but I *have* spent my fair share of time fighting back against those fascist types who look at every single Muslim person and see nothing but criminals or rapists.

There are always two sides to every coin. 😉

My stance has always been pretty consistent: when it comes to immigration, we shouldn't be looking at religion, race, nationality, gender, age, or any other characteristic. Instead, we should simply reject every single application across the board without bias. I have never suggested targeting Christians over Muslims—that would be blatant religious discrimination. Everyone should be treated exactly the same way.

Paul Kern12 said:Without any intention of defending Greece, I find myself disagreeing with what has been written here.
As far as I am aware, the migrants arrive in Greece from Turkey via sea routes. When they enter Greek waters on small boats, what exactly is Greece supposed to do?
Open fire on inflatable boats?
They cannot simply return them to Turkey, because Turkey does not permit Greek vessels to enter their waters.
It isn't necessarily Greece's fault—it is Turkey's. This situation seems to suit them most, and we see how they use it as leverage to extract as much as they possibly can.
The issue lies with Turkey, rather than so much with Greece.

The Greeks are lost on what to do, whereas the Mexicans, Bulgarians, and Canadians seem to have a handle on things...
Just like how the Greeks don't seem to know how to manage their own finances or budget, unlike the Germans and others who actually understand how to run a tight ship...
So what now? Does all of Europe just share the burden of Greek incompetence across various sectors of state management?
The Germans told them a long time ago that their debts are their own responsibility, not something the whole EU should be worrying about. It's high time the Greeks took accountability for other aspects of running their country too. If they need help restructuring debt or getting advice on financial management, fine—but the same goes for things like border security. At some point, Greek politicians need to start governing their own nation responsibly.

Alexander Ortiz3 said:My stance has always been pretty consistent: when it comes to immigration, we shouldn't be looking at religion, race, nationality, gender, age, or any other characteristic. Instead, we should simply reject every single application across the board without bias. I have never suggested targeting Christians over Muslims—that would be blatant religious discrimination. Everyone should be treated exactly the same way.

Since the world is basically one big global village, spreading Western values to more backward parts of the planet shouldn't be an issue. But clearly, that's just not happening.

So, yeah—everyone gets treated the same once the right global conditions are set. Otherwise, you end up with a situation where it feels like we're rewarding a prostitute for serving some brute who hits her—it's just a bad look.

Alexander Ortiz3 said:The Greeks are lost on what to do, whereas the Mexicans, Bulgarians, and Canadians seem to have a handle on things...
Just like how the Greeks don't seem to know how to manage their own finances or budget, unlike the Germans and others who actually understand how to run a tight ship...
So what now? Does all of Europe just share the burden of Greek incompetence across various sectors of state management?
The Germans told them a long time ago that their debts are their own responsibility, not something the whole EU should be worrying about. It's high time the Greeks took accountability for other aspects of running their country too. If they need help restructuring debt or getting advice on financial management, fine—but the same goes for things like border security. At some point, Greek politicians need to start governing their own nation responsibly.

You really can't compare North Mexico, Bulgaria, or Canada to Greece. I suppose the situation in Greece is much more difficult because a maritime border isn't quite the same thing as a land border. In the end, even Italian people can't stop migrants from arriving by sea.
And again, regarding the "North American route," I'd argue it isn't so much Greece's fault as it is Turkey's.

Paul Thomas46 said:Greece keeps letting everyone walk right through their borders—and then they have the nerve to lecture us about "humanity" and "solidarity" and all that EU nonsense.

😕

Since they’re the ones opening the doors themselves, why should anyone else give a damn? They fell, they failed... it's on them.
But no, they try to spin it like this is some massive crisis affecting the entire continent.

They have an army and a police force at their disposal. Once they joined Schengen, they were handed equipment and everything else needed to monitor those damn borders. HANDED. Someone (US taxpayers) paid for every single piece of gear specifically to watch and protect the EU border.
And yet, they aren't doing a thing. They're breaking every agreement and regulation on the books.
Now suddenly it's everyone else's problem because they won't do the job they were actually equipped to do. If they want to handle it, fine—but let them deal with their own mess...

It wouldn't even surprise me to see a news report or a tweet claiming that the Greeks are digging tunnels under the Greek-Bulgarian border just to let migrants through out of pure spite toward Germany for pressuring them over debt repayments.

Paul Kern12 said:Without any intention of defending Greece, I find myself disagreeing with what has been written here.
As far as I am aware, the migrants arrive in Greece from Turkey via sea routes. When they enter Greek waters on small boats, what exactly is Greece supposed to do?
Open fire on inflatable boats?
They cannot simply return them to Turkey, because Turkey does not permit Greek vessels to enter their waters.
It isn't necessarily Greece's fault—it is Turkey's. This situation seems to suit them most, and we see how they use it as leverage to extract as much as they possibly can.
The issue lies with Turkey, rather than so much with Greece.

Then what's the point of having Coast Guards, police cutters, or naval ships at all?
If that's the logic, does it mean you just let everyone through simply because they showed up at the pier?

I honestly don't follow your reasoning—are you suggesting a maritime border can't be defended?
If borders weren't meant to be protected, then half of East Asia wouldn't have drifted over to Australia by now...

No, when things happen on your own territory, you alone are responsible.
If I let five strangers into my house tomorrow and then started crying that you should take in at least two of them, what would you say? "Oh, well, we're in the same neighborhood, so we have to share"? No way. It's not my fault they entered my home just because someone across the street pointed them my way.

When it comes to your house, your country, or whatever else—you're the only one accountable. We Americans couldn't go defend the Greek border against their will if we tried. It essentially means it's their choice to let these people into the country. Fine, if that's the case, then they can keep them...🤷

Sandra Nelson59 said:If they had any way of knowing for certain that he wasn't coming back, they probably would have just let those 15,000 people who got stuck move on. But then again, everyone would be thinking the exact same thing. ☕

And honestly, it would just be a never-ending cycle. Like Sandra Nelson59 mentioned earlier in the thread, there comes a point where you just have to cut your losses and say enough is enough.
I find it a bit surprising, though, how easily they seemed to throw in the towel. I have a feeling they’ll definitely try to pivot and find some new direction soon.

To me, the most problematic part of this whole situation is the collective mindset being fostered here.
As soon as the government hits a rough patch or falls into a budget deficit, the immediate reaction is, "Let's just pack up and move to another country."
Maybe we should get used to the idea that whenever a nation starts looking like a failed state, we need to prepare for a massive wave of people trying to flee.
The wheels are already in motion, and this is going to be a long, drawn-out saga.
Given the social and political landscape of our neighbors, the region isn't prepared for this, so there will always be friction.

Paul Kern12 said:You really can't compare North Mexico, Bulgaria, or Canada to Greece. I suppose the situation in Greece is much more difficult because a maritime border isn't quite the same thing as a land border. In the end, even Italian people can't stop migrants from arriving by sea.
And again, regarding the "North American route," I'd argue it isn't so much Greece's fault as it is Turkey's.

I’m always baffled by people who post without having any idea what they're actually talking about, but of course, I fully support freedom of speech for everyone—even those who are totally clueless on the subject.
Stopping sea arrivals is actually quite easy, especially if you have a navy like the Greeks or the Italians.
NO WAY YOU WILL NOT MAKE AUSTRALIA HOME

The rules apply to everyone: families, children, unaccompanied children, educated and skilled. There are no exceptions.
The message is the same in many different languages
https://www.youtube.com/user/AusCustomsNews/videos
and here too
https://www.border.gov.au/about/oper...-communication

See how easily it can be done☕

Arijela said:Yes, and we should be particularly harsh toward Christians who have been facing crucifixion and throat-cutting in Syria and Iraq for ages—which would be even worse than ISIS—so what are we supposed to do then?

And especially since they don't usually commit rapes in public squares or keep concubines, there's a high probability they would integrate into the lifestyle very quickly. We absolutely shouldn't give them any advantages!

Refugees certainly have the right to enter the first safe country they reach. I'd love an explanation as to why Turkey isn't considered a safe country, for instance, for Christians, so that anyone needing to continue their journey away from an unsafe Turkey could move forward.
I still stand by my position that I don't support any kind of discrimination among immigrants on any basis whatsoever.

Alexander Ortiz3 said:I’m always baffled by people who post without having any idea what they're actually talking about, but of course, I fully support freedom of speech for everyone—even those who are totally clueless on the subject.
Stopping sea arrivals is actually quite easy, especially if you have a navy like the Greeks or the Italians.
NO WAY YOU WILL NOT MAKE AUSTRALIA HOME

The rules apply to everyone: families, children, unaccompanied children, educated and skilled. There are no exceptions.
The message is the same in many different languages
https://www.youtube.com/user/AusCustomsNews/videos
and here too
https://www.border.gov.au/about/oper...-communication

See how easily it can be done☕

Refugees certainly have the right to enter the first safe country they reach. I'd love an explanation as to why Turkey isn't considered a safe country, for instance, for Christians, so that anyone needing to continue their journey away from an unsafe Turkey could move forward.
I still stand by my position that I don't support any kind of discrimination among immigrants on any basis whatsoever.

Look, sure, Turkey is absolutely overwhelmed with refugees, but you've got Jordan and Lebanon in the mix too. Besides, refugees could just as easily seek asylum in Iran, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, or even Russia.

The people landing in Greece and Europe? They're migrants. Period. End of discussion.