Atheism vs. Spirituality: Zero Tolerance

Joseph Bailey41 said:Well, that’s just great. Not that I have anything to show for it anyway. 😬

Ouch...🤣...well, I guess I saw that coming—it's probably going to be one of those days, isn't it? 🙂

Joseph Bailey41 As I have noted before, it appears that...
If I am operating under the assumption that God does not exist, why should it matter to me whether His likeness resembles a human being or a disco ball?🤔

One really ought to understand exactly what they are denying. When I set out to deny a legend like a demon, I have a very specific image in my mind: a creature with the face of an old woman, jagged iron teeth, and massive claws, riding a person through the countryside all night long. Ultimately, there is no single, universal definition of God; people experience Him in vastly different ways.

Gerald Hill said:

Joseph Bailey41 As I have noted before, it appears that...
If I am operating under the assumption that God does not exist, why should it matter to me whether His likeness resembles a human being or a disco ball?🤔

One really ought to understand exactly what they are denying. When I set out to deny a legend like a demon, I have a very specific image in my mind: a creature with the face of an old woman, jagged iron teeth, and massive claws, riding a person through the countryside all night long. Ultimately, there is no single, universal definition of God; people experience Him in vastly different ways.

🤦

See, he isn't really denying something that actually exists. He’s just rejecting what *other* people claim is out there. That's why he can't even wrap his head around the version of God he's supposedly arguing against. It’s a bit of a loop, isn't it?

I mean, honestly, if you're picturing some imaginary creature in your mind just so you can deny it, that’s either pretty silly or you might need to see a doctor.

Are you denying The Flying Dutchman too?? Because that guy is just as much a part of our legends as any vampire or forest spirit. It makes me wonder how you're even visualizing him, since you'd need an image to deny in the first place, according to your own logic.

silentviper19 said:🤦

See, he isn't really denying something that actually exists. He’s just rejecting what *other* people claim is out there. That's why he can't even wrap his head around the version of God he's supposedly arguing against. It’s a bit of a loop, isn't it?

I mean, honestly, if you're picturing some imaginary creature in your mind just so you can deny it, that’s either pretty silly or you might need to see a doctor.

Are you denying The Flying Dutchman too?? Because that guy is just as much a part of our legends as any vampire or forest spirit. It makes me wonder how you're even visualizing him, since you'd need an image to deny in the first place, according to your own logic.

The Vjedrogonja was described in legend as a mere man, and since we all know what a human looks like, the concept is simple. For instance, do you believe in Mark from Pancip? I don't need to "believe" in him; there is almost certainly a man named Mark living in Pancip right now.

Gerald Hill said:The Vjedrogonja was described in legend as a mere man, and since we all know what a human looks like, the concept is simple. For instance, do you believe in Mark from Pancip? I don't need to "believe" in him; there is almost certainly a man named Mark living in Pancip right now.

So, by that logic, we're all Vjedrogonja (ha!).
🙂

Larry Moore83 said:So, by that logic, we're all Vjedrogonja (ha!).
🙂

Since we cannot even protect our own ground from a simple storm, I don't think any of us could truly claim to be a Vjedrogonja.

Haha! Honestly, once Shaban’s hair starts turning gray, I know he’s telling the truth. We’re all just regular people at the end of the day. After all, being human is what defines us. 😬

But seriously, what if there are two guys named Mark in Chicago? It's unlikely they're twins. Or maybe someone there even named their canary Mark. Who am I really arguing with if I'm just disputing some guy from Chicago? It's getting way too complicated for my brain.

Besides, why would I even deny him? It would be a different story if you told me Mark could time travel or manifest a cheeseburger out of thin air. Then I’d tell you you're talking nonsense and wouldn't bother asking whether Mark is a man or a bird.

Anyway, I don't deny beings that possess powers attributed to God, and I certainly don't lose sleep over what they look like.

Now, I might actually believe in a Vjedrogonja if I saw one in action, like someone casually moving clouds around without using any high-tech gadgets.

Joseph Bailey41 said:Haha! Honestly, once Shaban’s hair starts turning gray, I know he’s telling the truth. We’re all just regular people at the end of the day. After all, being human is what defines us. 😬

But seriously, what if there are two guys named Mark in Chicago? It's unlikely they're twins. Or maybe someone there even named their canary Mark. Who am I really arguing with if I'm just disputing some guy from Chicago? It's getting way too complicated for my brain.

Besides, why would I even deny him? It would be a different story if you told me Mark could time travel or manifest a cheeseburger out of thin air. Then I’d tell you you're talking nonsense and wouldn't bother asking whether Mark is a man or a bird.

Anyway, I don't deny beings that possess powers attributed to God, and I certainly don't lose sleep over what they look like.

Now, I might actually believe in a Vjedrogonja if I saw one in action, like someone casually moving clouds around without using any high-tech gadgets.

Humans are increasingly gaining ground, mastering abilities once reserved for God. It's true we can't conjure life from nothingness just yet, but we certainly can manipulate living things to create entirely different plants or animals.

A GMO tomato is fundamentally different from a "natural" one; it was engineered in a lab.

And while time travel remains out of reach, a smartphone would have seemed just as miraculous—if not more so—to my late grandmother as a burrito appearing from the ether.

In a hundred years, conjuring food from thin air might be such a mundane occurrence that our great-grandchildren will look back in sheer disbelief at the "ancient" technology of baking pastries in electric ovens.

Ether isn't even a real thing. 😬

Comparing GMOs to homegrown tomatoes is like comparing apples to oranges—it’s a total false equivalency. People have been "creating" new plant varieties through selective breeding and hybridization since forever, often pairing the process with all sorts of strange little rituals.

Honestly... if Mark Vjedrogonja from Pancip ever decided to publish his own rituals, spiritual techniques, or meditation guides, I’d probably be the first one to try them out just to protect my tomato patch from a hailstorm. Provided, of course, they aren't overly complicated or dangerous to my health. If I noticed they actually worked—like, say, if the hail miraculously skipped over my garden entirely—I’d keep doing them. But don't get it twisted; that wouldn't make me a believer.

Joseph Bailey41 said:Ether isn't even a real thing. 😬

Comparing GMOs to homegrown tomatoes is like comparing apples to oranges—it’s a total false equivalency. People have been "creating" new plant varieties through selective breeding and hybridization since forever, often pairing the process with all sorts of strange little rituals.

Honestly... if Mark Vjedrogonja from Pancip ever decided to publish his own rituals, spiritual techniques, or meditation guides, I’d probably be the first one to try them out just to protect my tomato patch from a hailstorm. Provided, of course, they aren't overly complicated or dangerous to my health. If I noticed they actually worked—like, say, if the hail miraculously skipped over my garden entirely—I’d keep doing them. But don't get it twisted; that wouldn't make me a believer.

It’s a given that people have always engineered new plants and animals (think purebred dogs) through selection and controlled breeding.

The real distinction lies in the methodology; modern man has mastered genetic engineering, gaining the ability to manipulate life by directly combining specific genes.

And sure, a GMO tomato might not taste quite as good as one grown in a backyard garden—but hang on, we’re still in the early stages. We’re just beginning to learn how to build.

We’ll continue to advance.

Until the day we figure out how to alter our own genetic makeup using nothing but the power of our minds.

That is when we will truly become gods.

Look, that's the one God I’m actually agnostic about. It's just as likely we'll end up in hell before He even gets the chance to judge us.

Joseph Bailey41 said:Look, that's the one God I’m actually agnostic about. It's just as likely we'll end up in hell before He even gets the chance to judge us.

I'm with you on that.

However, if they actually manage it, there's a real possibility that some lifeforms—the kind we engineer and seed across distant planets in some far-off corner of the universe—will look back at us, their creators, and see us as gods with the power to conjure life from nothing.

And then a new cycle begins, because from where I'm standing, everything seems to move in these endless loops.

Pretty much. But honestly, we’re moving out of religious territory and straight into sci-fi now. If we want to follow that logic, there's even the possibility that we eventually engineer some kind of god or gods capable of time travel, meaning they could already be walking among us. Sort of like a Terminator. 😬

Either way, I just don't see any reason why we'd end up worshipping a miracle like that.

Joseph Bailey41 said:Pretty much. But honestly, we’re moving out of religious territory and straight into sci-fi now. If we want to follow that logic, there's even the possibility that we eventually engineer some kind of god or gods capable of time travel, meaning they could already be walking among us. Sort of like a Terminator. 😬

Either way, I just don't see any reason why we'd end up worshipping a miracle like that.

Of course you don't see a reason to worship a creator or a god.

You are a product of the 21st century, raised in an era where the idea of bowing to anyone is practically foreign. Most religious texts were penned during the age of kings and emperors—an era defined by absolute devotion to higher authorities.

Humanity (and you included) has finally outgrown its infancy, and we've moved past being toddlers. We are currently somewhere in the midst of our awkward adolescence.

We still have quite a bit of growing, working, and creating left to do before we actually reach maturity.

Thanks for the compliment, but I was definitely raised and shaped by the values of the last century. 😳

They tried to push all sorts of authorities and holy books on me (like they do with everyone, really), but I’ve always found secular literature much more convincing. That doesn't mean I don't occasionally turn to a spiritual practice if it feels meaningful or necessary in the moment, though.

Joseph Bailey41 said:Thanks for the compliment, but I was definitely raised and shaped by the values of the last century. 😳

They tried to push all sorts of authorities and holy books on me (like they do with everyone, really), but I’ve always found secular literature much more convincing. That doesn't mean I don't occasionally turn to a spiritual practice if it feels meaningful or necessary in the moment, though.

The specific decade doesn't really matter—evolution doesn't care about our calendars.

Secular literature serves as the foundation; you can't build anything significant without a solid base. Chemistry, biology, physics, psychology, sociology... every individual should at least grasp the basics, assuming their daily responsibilities don't allow them to become experts in every single field.

Then comes philosophy, allowing us to engage with the insights and perspectives regarding the world and humanity left behind by our ancestors.

From there, based on all that knowledge, one should attempt to draw some sort of conclusion about ourselves and the world we inhabit.

As for religious texts and religion itself—they are essential to study. Without understanding them, you simply cannot comprehend humanity. They explain where we have been, why we are the way we are, and perhaps where we are headed.

Joseph Bailey41 said:🤔 I think I’m going to let it all out today—maybe I’ve finally lost my marbles.

It looks like I might not be as creative as I thought, since I haven't quite managed to become my own god. Maybe I'm just a little devil sometimes. Does that count?

Oh, it absolutely counts!😉

Joseph Bailey41 said:Ether isn't even a real thing. 😬

Comparing GMOs to homegrown tomatoes is like comparing apples to oranges—it’s a total false equivalency. People have been "creating" new plant varieties through selective breeding and hybridization since forever, often pairing the process with all sorts of strange little rituals.

Honestly... if Mark Vjedrogonja from Pancip ever decided to publish his own rituals, spiritual techniques, or meditation guides, I’d probably be the first one to try them out just to protect my tomato patch from a hailstorm. Provided, of course, they aren't overly complicated or dangerous to my health. If I noticed they actually worked—like, say, if the hail miraculously skipped over my garden entirely—I’d keep doing them. But don't get it twisted; that wouldn't make me a believer.

Sounds like the byproduct of way too much schooling and "research."

Joseph Bailey41 said:Ether isn't even a real thing. 😬

Comparing GMOs to homegrown tomatoes is like comparing apples to oranges—it’s a total false equivalency. People have been "creating" new plant varieties through selective breeding and hybridization since forever, often pairing the process with all sorts of strange little rituals.

Honestly... if Mark Vjedrogonja from Pancip ever decided to publish his own rituals, spiritual techniques, or meditation guides, I’d probably be the first one to try them out just to protect my tomato patch from a hailstorm. Provided, of course, they aren't overly complicated or dangerous to my health. If I noticed they actually worked—like, say, if the hail miraculously skipped over my garden entirely—I’d keep doing them. But don't get it twisted; that wouldn't make me a believer.

GMOs are just fodder for sheep.

Paul Jones7 said:It’s because that mindset is basically a massive self-contradiction. I mean, if you look closely, that kind of attitude isn't actually atheism—it's just religious zealotry flipped on its head. It's essentially a fake posture by default. Anyone who really gets it, or even just feels it in their gut, has to find that lack of harmony unsettling—or at least they're aware of how messy it is, even if they choose to ignore it.

That position isn't contradictory at all. In fact, it’s quite straightforward—the core idea is simply that faith, in any guise, tends to produce mostly negative consequences, whether you look at it through an individual lens or a societal one.

Rather than rambling about these "flipped religious mindsets" (which, if we're being pedantic... what exactly would an "inverted religious mindset" even be?) or claiming things are "lies by default"—which is completely off the mark when dealing with this kind of militant atheism—it would be much more effective to just dismantle the argument by pointing toward various religious practices and belief systems that clearly aren't destructive.

Sam Martinez9 I've been thinking about this... honestly, I don't know where to start. It’s all just a mess. Everything feels like it's circling the drain lately, doesn't it? Just one thing after another. I was reading some stuff earlier—just trying to make sense of the chaos—and it really hits home how little control we actually have over any of this. It's exhausting. You try to stay informed, you try to keep up, but it feels like the goalposts are constantly moving. Just... ugh. Anyway, that's just my two cents. Probably shouldn't have even typed it out. My mistake.
Look, I was born in the 21st century. I was raised to give zero damns about bowing down to anyone. You have to look at the context—those religious texts? They were written back when kings and emperors ran the show, during an era where everyone was expected to grovel before some higher authority. It's just not how things work anymore.

Look, it’s not about some weird obsession with bowing down to people or worshiping them like idols. It isn't that. It's just about actually knowing who's in charge and having enough damn respect to recognize the forces at play here.

Look, knowing about—and actually respecting—the higher powers in this world? It’s got nothing to do with kings or emperors or whatever titles people use to feel important. It’s really just about access. It’s about whether the knowledge exists at all, and if enough people can actually get their hands on it. If you don't know what's going on, and you don't respect it, that's not some deep moral failing. It's just a byproduct of being kept in the dark. Pure ignorance, plain and simple.

Sam Martinez9 said:Humans are increasingly gaining ground, mastering abilities once reserved for God. It's true we can't conjure life from nothingness just yet, but we certainly can manipulate living things to create entirely different plants or animals.

A GMO tomato is fundamentally different from a "natural" one; it was engineered in a lab.

And while time travel remains out of reach, a smartphone would have seemed just as miraculous—if not more so—to my late grandmother as a burrito appearing from the ether.

In a hundred years, conjuring food from thin air might be such a mundane occurrence that our great-grandchildren will look back in sheer disbelief at the "ancient" technology of baking pastries in electric ovens.

If you're asking for my take on this... well, here it is. My two cents. Take it or leave it.

Some people out there genuinely believe we’ve all just collectively slid into an era of pure, unadulterated idiocy.

Sam Martinez9 said:It’s a given that people have always engineered new plants and animals (think purebred dogs) through selection and controlled breeding.

The real distinction lies in the methodology; modern man has mastered genetic engineering, gaining the ability to manipulate life by directly combining specific genes.

And sure, a GMO tomato might not taste quite as good as one grown in a backyard garden—but hang on, we’re still in the early stages. We’re just beginning to learn how to build.

We’ll continue to advance.

Until the day we figure out how to alter our own genetic makeup using nothing but the power of our minds.

That is when we will truly become gods.

Look, let's get one thing straight: we haven't actually mastered genetic engineering. Not even close. People love to talk about it like we've got God's playbook open on the desk, but we don't. And honestly? Trying to compare actual cross-species breeding to some scientist messing around with DNA in a lab... it’s just not in the same league. It's total nonsense.