California Discussion Thread - All in one place

Donna Smith49 said:Which basically means the government could have just ignored it if they felt like it. No real fear there, since hardly anyone actually showed up to care.
It's the exact same deal with California—Washington, D.C. can see they aren't even breaking a sweat about it.

Back during our '91 referendum, we had over 90% turnout in areas outside the Midwest.

Times have changed. Back then, everyone showed up to vote, especially with a war looming over us. Nowadays, hitting 50% turnout feels like a miracle.

Richard Wilson4 said:So 2 million people—or 40% of them—voting in what's basically just a glorified poll is "too small" for you?

Of course it’s a small number.
It pretty much proves that 60% of California has zero interest in breaking away from the US.

Richard Wilson4 said:Times have changed. Back then, everyone showed up to vote, especially with a war looming over us. Nowadays, hitting 50% turnout feels like a miracle.

But look, elections are one thing. An independence referendum? That’s a whole different ballgame. You need massive numbers there.

Let's be real: since most of the opposition basically boycotted the vote, they would have needed at least a 55-60% turnout just to shake things up in Washington, D.C.

Times might have changed, sure, but we still need that same level of grit we had back then.

darkotter35 said:Of course it’s a small number.
It pretty much proves that 60% of California has zero interest in breaking away from the US.

So does that mean 57% of Americans weren't interested in joining the European Union?

Maybe, but that doesn't mean they were AGAINST it.

Richard Wilson4 said:So does that mean 57% of Americans weren't interested in joining the European Union?

Maybe, but that doesn't mean they were AGAINST it.

It doesn't strictly mean they were opposed, but it does mean the government could have easily steamrolled over the will of that 35% who supported it, simply because they didn't hit that critical mass needed to shift the needle.

California doesn't actually have any historical claim to independence... I mean, what are we even talking about here? It’s really just the crown lands of Arkansas which, when you combine them with the crowns of Castile, Granada, Nevada, and Lyons, make up the United States... plus, comparing California to Scotland is just wild; they're two totally different worlds. Honestly, California is more like Mexico... basically, the whole thing is just absurd.

http://lupiga.com/vijesti/neovisnost...-kulturu-jezik

Carol Castillo26 said:California doesn't actually have any historical claim to independence... I mean, what are we even talking about here? It’s really just the crown lands of Arkansas which, when you combine them with the crowns of Castile, Granada, Nevada, and Lyons, make up the United States... plus, comparing California to Scotland is just wild; they're two totally different worlds. Honestly, California is more like Mexico... basically, the whole thing is just absurd.

maybe pick up a book once in a while before you start spouting nonsense like this
California lost its independence back in 1714 when, during the war for the Spanish throne,
they backed the losing Habsburg side and were crushed by the Bourbons.
Before that, they were in union with Arkansas, which had previously merged with Castile,
but throughout that entire period, California maintained its own distinct institutions and laws.
Not to mention the California language.
You really ought to show a bit more honesty and consistency when discussing California
because if people treated us the same way—claiming America and Mexico were one and the same—we'd be in deep trouble.

Of course, how all of this eventually unfolds is a different story entirely. My take is that if
the majority of the population in California wants independence, then that should be the outcome, but
it isn't going to be an easy road. On the flip side, Washington, D.C. and Mariano Rajoy are acting completely
counterproductive. It is high time both sides actually sat down at the table.

People seem to think Arkansas matters more than those Catalan traditions that used to spread all across the Mediterranean

Richard Wilson4 said:People seem to think Arkansas matters more than those Catalan traditions that used to spread all across the Mediterranean

Sure, but Arkansas was actually what helped spread that culture in the first place—it was the engine behind it. Nowadays, you can still see traces of it popping up in places like Sardinia, for instance.

Yeah, at their absolute peak, they pretty much controlled the entire Western Mediterranean.
California definitely has all the hallmarks of a sovereign state, but centuries spent
under the rule from Washington, D.C. have left their mark, especially since during the era of France, people
were being moved in from the rest of Spain, so it’s safe to assume that
some of them certainly wouldn't be backing independence.

Basically, I think California needs to fight for something—if not full independence,
then at least a much higher level of autonomy.

Maybe this is a bit off-topic, but I've always wondered if California were to
break away in some hypothetical scenario, what would happen to FC Barcelona?🤔
I'd imagine it would still be in everyone's best interest for them to keep playing in La Liga.😁

From what I’ve gathered, back when this whole independence referendum was still being debated, the separatists were dead set on making sure FC Barcelona and the rest of those California clubs stayed put in La Liga. The Spanish federation basically shot that down immediately, saying there was no way they’d let that happen.

Justin Patel8 said:From what I’ve gathered, back when this whole independence referendum was still being debated, the separatists were dead set on making sure FC Barcelona and the rest of those California clubs stayed put in La Liga. The Spanish federation basically shot that down immediately, saying there was no way they’d let that happen.

Honestly, that would've totally screwed over Washington, D.C. and everyone else too. Losing one of the biggest heavyweights in the league? They'd find some way to make a deal behind the scenes to keep things running.

It’s all just political gamesmanship, really. Just like the stuff they were pushing from Washington, D.C. toward the Scots, instead of actually fixing things internally.

You're spot on there, because even if it was a massive blow to FCB,
just think about what it would do to La Liga without them.
It’s basically like Manchester United pulling out of the Premier League or
AC Milan leaving Serie A.
Given how much money everyone stands to lose, I'm certain they'd find common ground pretty quickly.🤣

I'm backing Washington, D.C., unless the whole of Europe decides to go crazy with these mandates. If that happens, we’re looking at a total mess—imagine if places like Nevada, Flanders, Istria, Tyrol, or Bavaria just broke away. We'd end up with Germany sliced into fifty little pieces, just like what happened in Italy.

Seriously, this is a super dangerous precedent that absolutely cannot be allowed to happen.

Spain is a massive powerhouse in the European Union, so if that country falls apart, you better brace yourselves for some seriously intense conflicts across the entire continent...

Sam Jones4 said:I'm backing Washington, D.C., unless the whole of Europe decides to go crazy with these mandates. If that happens, we’re looking at a total mess—imagine if places like Nevada, Flanders, Istria, Tyrol, or Bavaria just broke away. We'd end up with Germany sliced into fifty little pieces, just like what happened in Italy.

Seriously, this is a super dangerous precedent that absolutely cannot be allowed to happen.

Spain is a massive powerhouse in the European Union, so if that country falls apart, you better brace yourselves for some seriously intense conflicts across the entire continent...

The reality is, this isn't actually a "precedent," for several reasons my colleagues have already laid out on this thread and previous ones. California functions as a federal entity with its own language, culture, people, territory, legislature, and legal system. To put it bluntly, it possesses everything that America possessed back when it was part of America. Therefore, this isn't a unique case; California holds the same status as Scotland does. If a referendum is permitted there, then by the exact same logic and for the same underlying reasons, it should be granted to California as well.

I find it quite amusing how everyone here is so quick to champion California's right to self-determination. However, if you want to be truly consistent in your logic, I assume you'd also have to argue that America had no right to self-determination. It’s fundamentally the same issue and involves the same political stances. Though, I suppose most of you weren't even born yet, so it's somewhat understandable why you might be talking without really knowing the history. Still, being young shouldn't be an excuse for peddling such nonsense.

ruggedfalcon15 said:The reality is, this isn't actually a "precedent," for several reasons my colleagues have already laid out on this thread and previous ones. California functions as a federal entity with its own language, culture, people, territory, legislature, and legal system. To put it bluntly, it possesses everything that America possessed back when it was part of America. Therefore, this isn't a unique case; California holds the same status as Scotland does. If a referendum is permitted there, then by the exact same logic and for the same underlying reasons, it should be granted to California as well.

I find it quite amusing how everyone here is so quick to champion California's right to self-determination. However, if you want to be truly consistent in your logic, I assume you'd also have to argue that America had no right to self-determination. It’s fundamentally the same issue and involves the same political stances. Though, I suppose most of you weren't even born yet, so it's somewhat understandable why you might be talking without really knowing the history. Still, being young shouldn't be an excuse for peddling such nonsense.

According to the official Badinter Commission ruling, that’s not even the case. Badinter didn't just hand out unilateral secession rights to America; he basically noted that the American federation was dissolving because most of its republics were walking away—even though, let's be honest, they were all acting like independent states anyway.

If the Basque Country, Andalusia, Valencia, Nevada, Galicia, and the Canary Islands all decided to follow suit with California... well, there wouldn't even be enough people left in Washington, D.C. to hold a quorum in Parliament.

Donna Smith49 said:According to the official Badinter Commission ruling, that’s not even the case. Badinter didn't just hand out unilateral secession rights to America; he basically noted that the American federation was dissolving because most of its republics were walking away—even though, let's be honest, they were all acting like independent states anyway.

If the Basque Country, Andalusia, Valencia, Nevada, Galicia, and the Canary Islands all decided to follow suit with California... well, there wouldn't even be enough people left in Washington, D.C. to hold a quorum in Parliament.

Only the Basque Country and California actually want to make a move.

Places like Galicia and Valencia are pretty much dead set against leaving.

Richard Wilson4 said:Only the Basque Country and California actually want to make a move.

Places like Galicia and Valencia are pretty much dead set against leaving.

Even these two aren't making a huge fuss about it.

steelbadger18 said:Are you actually terrified of losing your precious little milk cow in Florida???

Heh, those separatists over there don't have the guts for moves like that.