California Discussion Thread - All in one place

Sam Alvarez4 said:Actually, those figures prove just how divided things really are.
Out of a total of 5.34 million Californian voters, only 2.02 million voted "yes"—that's a mere 37.8%!

90% of the ballots support secession, totaling 2,020,144, but they only account for 37.8% of the supposed voter pool.

You and so many other people in this thread keep making the exact same mistake—you’re acting like everyone who skipped the referendum is automatically part of the "against" camp.

Look, you have to get this through your heads: people who didn't show up DON'T COUNT. Period. They made a conscious, deliberate choice to opt out of the electorate entirely. They aren't part of the electorate—they don't count, it's like they don't even exist in the math.

By staying home, they basically sent a message saying, "Don't include us in the electorate because we don't want to weigh in on this." So, you can't just force their silence onto them and claim they're against the referendum—we honestly HAVE NO CLUE what they would've done! We don't know how those non-voters would've voted, but we DO know exactly how the people who actually showed up voted. And of those people? 90% voted for independence. That's the bottom line here—90% of Californians WANT independence, and the ones who stayed home? They don't count, their opinion is unknown, and frankly, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

rustywalker82 said:The poll used a scientifically solid sample size.
It’s pretty obvious they don't actually want independence.

Like I mentioned before the vote went down, things are just going too well for them right now.

The sample consists of those who actually showed up to participate, which represents a 90% majority in favor.

The echoes of Francisco Franco in Spain 🙄 https://www.rt.com/news/405105-acade...ession-franco/

An Open Letter US, signed by academics from Canada and Mexico, calls out the regime's political repression in Madrid. Even Noam Chomsky is among those putting their names to it. http://www.ara.cat/en/North-American...878412340.html

This follows a similar move where British professors issued their own open letter. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...k-catalan-vote

Brenda Taylor13 said:You and so many other people in this thread keep making the exact same mistake—you’re acting like everyone who skipped the referendum is automatically part of the "against" camp.

Look, you have to get this through your heads: people who didn't show up DON'T COUNT. Period. They made a conscious, deliberate choice to opt out of the electorate entirely. They aren't part of the electorate—they don't count, it's like they don't even exist in the math.

By staying home, they basically sent a message saying, "Don't include us in the electorate because we don't want to weigh in on this." So, you can't just force their silence onto them and claim they're against the referendum—we honestly HAVE NO CLUE what they would've done! We don't know how those non-voters would've voted, but we DO know exactly how the people who actually showed up voted. And of those people? 90% voted for independence. That's the bottom line here—90% of Californians WANT independence, and the ones who stayed home? They don't count, their opinion is unknown, and frankly, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

The real question is: how many people stayed home simply because they were intimidated by the threat of violence or the regime's decision to shut down numerous polling stations?

And let’s not even get started on the referendum in America regarding joining the European Union or NATO... 🙄

Susan Green2 said:The sample consists of those who actually showed up to participate, which represents a 90% majority in favor.

Yeah, sure. Because the legal ban on holding a referendum and the fact that absolutely nobody else in the world—including the US—recognizes a sample like that doesn't matter at all, right?

Ignoring actual polls or just hassling random people on the street is basically the same thing... we're living in a parallel universe here...

Brenda Taylor13 said:You and so many other people in this thread keep making the exact same mistake—you’re acting like everyone who skipped the referendum is automatically part of the "against" camp.

Look, you have to get this through your heads: people who didn't show up DON'T COUNT. Period. They made a conscious, deliberate choice to opt out of the electorate entirely. They aren't part of the electorate—they don't count, it's like they don't even exist in the math.

By staying home, they basically sent a message saying, "Don't include us in the electorate because we don't want to weigh in on this." So, you can't just force their silence onto them and claim they're against the referendum—we honestly HAVE NO CLUE what they would've done! We don't know how those non-voters would've voted, but we DO know exactly how the people who actually showed up voted. And of those people? 90% voted for independence. That's the bottom line here—90% of Californians WANT independence, and the ones who stayed home? They don't count, their opinion is unknown, and frankly, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

The point is, you can't declare independence based on just 37.8% of the electorate. Well, you technically could, but nothing would come of it... neither domestically nor internationally.

Washington made a mistake by overusing force, but Puigdemont bears the brunt of the responsibility for this whole farce and the needless tension. Instead of calming things down through negotiations for more autonomy—especially regarding finances—he just keeps up these insane threats about breaking away...

rustywalker82 said:Yeah, sure. Because the legal ban on holding a referendum and the fact that absolutely nobody else in the world—including the US—recognizes a sample like that doesn't matter at all, right?

Ignoring actual polls or just hassling random people on the street is basically the same thing... we're living in a parallel universe here...

Polls don't mean squat. They aren't part of the official process. If we went by polls, Hillary Clinton would be the President of the USA, and the UK would still be stuck in the European Union.

Quincy:

I don't even know where to start with this one—it’s just one of those things that gets me all worked up when I think about it! Honestly, some days I feel like I’m just shouting into the void here, but someone has to say it. It’s like we’re living in this weird, fragmented reality where nothing quite adds up, you know? Just total chaos. Anyway, I was thinking about how everything feels so disconnected lately—just constant, swirling madness—and it really hits home how much we take for granted. But yeah, that's just my brain going a mile a minute again. Sorry, I'll try to stay on track, but man, it's hard sometimes! kaže: Look, let’s get real for a second—you can't just waltz out and declare independence when you've only got 37.8% of the electorate behind you. I mean, sure, technically you can shout it from the rooftops if you feel like being delusional, but what's the point? Absolutely nothing. You aren't getting anywhere—not with the people living right next door to you, and definitely not on the global stage. It's a total non-starter, period. Madrid really overplayed their hand by going in so heavy-handed—honestly, they went way too far with the force. But let’s be real here: Puigdemont is the one truly responsible for this whole ridiculous farce. He’s the one constantly cranking up the tension for no damn reason! Instead of actually trying to de-escalate things or sitting down at the table to negotiate more autonomy—especially when it comes to the money, which is what actually matters—he just keeps doubling down with these insane threats about secession. It's pure madness.

What do you mean, 38%? I’m telling you—plain and simple—those people who didn't even bother to show up DO NOT COUNT. It’s like this thing everyone seems to stubbornly refuse to wrap their heads around! If they didn't want to step up and actually participate in the election process, then fine—they aren't part of the electorate. Period. In every single election, the only numbers that actually matter are the ones who showed up and cast a vote. That's just how it works!

Quincy:

I don't know what to tell you—sometimes things just happen. It’s like when you’re driving down a backroad in the Midwest and suddenly hit a patch of black ice you didn't see coming. You can plan all you want, but life has a way of throwing those curveballs right when you think you've got everything figured out. Just one of those situations where you have to take it in stride. kaže: Look, the bottom line is this: you can't just declare independence with 37.8% of the vote and expect things to actually work. Sure, you can make the announcement if you want, but that's where the dream ends. You won't get any traction domestically, and you certainly won't get a seat at the table internationally. It’s basically a non-starter. Madrid definitely overstepped by leaning too hard on the heavy hand, but let’s be real: Puigdemont is the one truly responsible for this whole circus. He’s the one cranking up the tension for no reason. Instead of actually de-escalating things through some sensible negotiations with the federal government—maybe pushing for more autonomy or better control over their own budget—he just keeps doubling down with those wild threats about seceding. It's a mess.

Look, I’m sorry, but what exactly are you basing that on? You're basically grouping everyone who didn't show up to the polls into the "anti-independence" camp, and that just doesn't track.

The New York Times is reporting that police pulled up to 770,000 mail-in ballots right out of circulation—which, if you do the math, is over 10% of the entire population in California.

https://www.nytimes.com/politics/us/ballot-security...einfangen.html

Brenda Taylor13 said:Polls don't mean squat. They aren't part of the official process. If we went by polls, Hillary Clinton would be the President of the USA, and the UK would still be stuck in the European Union.

Look, the US elections and the British referendum weren't illegal, so those results actually carry weight. They matter way more than some poll numbers that just track what people might like, rather than who actually shows up to vote.

That kind of left-wing denialism is exactly why California can never quite pull off its independence dreams.

rustywalker82 said:Look, the US elections and the British referendum weren't illegal, so those results actually carry weight. They matter way more than some poll numbers that just track what people might like, rather than who actually shows up to vote.

That kind of left-wing denialism is exactly why California can never quite pull off its independence dreams.

Wait, what??
The real reason California hasn't become its own thing is because Washington D.C. simply won't let go.

Brenda Taylor13 said:You and so many other people in this thread keep making the exact same mistake—you’re acting like everyone who skipped the referendum is automatically part of the "against" camp.

Look, you have to get this through your heads: people who didn't show up DON'T COUNT. Period. They made a conscious, deliberate choice to opt out of the electorate entirely. They aren't part of the electorate—they don't count, it's like they don't even exist in the math.

By staying home, they basically sent a message saying, "Don't include us in the electorate because we don't want to weigh in on this." So, you can't just force their silence onto them and claim they're against the referendum—we honestly HAVE NO CLUE what they would've done! We don't know how those non-voters would've voted, but we DO know exactly how the people who actually showed up voted. And of those people? 90% voted for independence. That's the bottom line here—90% of Californians WANT independence, and the ones who stayed home? They don't count, their opinion is unknown, and frankly, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

True. Non-voters shouldn't be counted. You're right there.

Just don't forget one thing: the whole reason people stayed home was the heavy police presence announced days before, and the brutality seen that morning. Many were too intimidated to show up, and even those who tried found many polling stations inaccessible. That isn't something you can just ignore.

Brenda Taylor13 said:Quincy:

I don't even know where to start with this one—it’s just one of those things that gets me all worked up when I think about it! Honestly, some days I feel like I’m just shouting into the void here, but someone has to say it. It’s like we’re living in this weird, fragmented reality where nothing quite adds up, you know? Just total chaos. Anyway, I was thinking about how everything feels so disconnected lately—just constant, swirling madness—and it really hits home how much we take for granted. But yeah, that's just my brain going a mile a minute again. Sorry, I'll try to stay on track, but man, it's hard sometimes! kaže: Look, let’s get real for a second—you can't just waltz out and declare independence when you've only got 37.8% of the electorate behind you. I mean, sure, technically you can shout it from the rooftops if you feel like being delusional, but what's the point? Absolutely nothing. You aren't getting anywhere—not with the people living right next door to you, and definitely not on the global stage. It's a total non-starter, period. Madrid really overplayed their hand by going in so heavy-handed—honestly, they went way too far with the force. But let’s be real here: Puigdemont is the one truly responsible for this whole ridiculous farce. He’s the one constantly cranking up the tension for no damn reason! Instead of actually trying to de-escalate things or sitting down at the table to negotiate more autonomy—especially when it comes to the money, which is what actually matters—he just keeps doubling down with these insane threats about secession. It's pure madness.

What do you mean, 38%? I’m telling you—plain and simple—those people who didn't even bother to show up DO NOT COUNT. It’s like this thing everyone seems to stubbornly refuse to wrap their heads around! If they didn't want to step up and actually participate in the election process, then fine—they aren't part of the electorate. Period. In every single election, the only numbers that actually matter are the ones who showed up and cast a vote. That's just how it works!

Oh, if only things were quite that simple!

I suppose it might be more accurate to say that the people who stayed home weren't necessarily opting out of the process, but perhaps they just didn't want to run afoul of the law.😉

Brenda Taylor13 said:Quincy:

I don't even know where to start with this one—it’s just one of those things that gets me all worked up when I think about it! Honestly, some days I feel like I’m just shouting into the void here, but someone has to say it. It’s like we’re living in this weird, fragmented reality where nothing quite adds up, you know? Just total chaos. Anyway, I was thinking about how everything feels so disconnected lately—just constant, swirling madness—and it really hits home how much we take for granted. But yeah, that's just my brain going a mile a minute again. Sorry, I'll try to stay on track, but man, it's hard sometimes! kaže: Look, let’s get real for a second—you can't just waltz out and declare independence when you've only got 37.8% of the electorate behind you. I mean, sure, technically you can shout it from the rooftops if you feel like being delusional, but what's the point? Absolutely nothing. You aren't getting anywhere—not with the people living right next door to you, and definitely not on the global stage. It's a total non-starter, period. Madrid really overplayed their hand by going in so heavy-handed—honestly, they went way too far with the force. But let’s be real here: Puigdemont is the one truly responsible for this whole ridiculous farce. He’s the one constantly cranking up the tension for no damn reason! Instead of actually trying to de-escalate things or sitting down at the table to negotiate more autonomy—especially when it comes to the money, which is what actually matters—he just keeps doubling down with these insane threats about secession. It's pure madness.

What do you mean, 38%? I’m telling you—plain and simple—those people who didn't even bother to show up DO NOT COUNT. It’s like this thing everyone seems to stubbornly refuse to wrap their heads around! If they didn't want to step up and actually participate in the election process, then fine—they aren't part of the electorate. Period. In every single election, the only numbers that actually matter are the ones who showed up and cast a vote. That's just how it works!

I mean, maybe that logic would fly if this wasn't such a massive, high-stakes issue and if the whole referendum was legally airtight. But when one side of the debate is arguing that the whole thing is unconstitutional and totally illegal (and honestly, they have some pretty solid points!), you can't really be shocked when they decide to stay home. It feels a little silly to act like those people just vanished into thin air.

Quincy:

I don't even know where to start with this—just absolute nonsense. Honestly, what are we even doing here? It’s like nobody's actually thinking. kaže: Look, you can't just declare independence with 37.8% of the vote. Like, sure—you can try—but nothing actually happens. You won't get any traction at home, and you definitely won't get any respect on the world stage. It’s a non-starter. Washington, D.C. definitely went overboard with the heavy-handedness here—total overkill. But honestly, Puigdemont is the one really driving this whole circus and cranking up the tension for no reason. Instead of actually sitting down with D.C. to talk autonomy—especially when it comes to the money side of things—he’s just out there making these insane threats about breaking away. It's exhausting.

Look, it’s just like a bad breakup—if someone is already halfway out the door, trying to force them to stay through pressure or intimidation is the absolute worst move you can make. Trying to muscle people into staying during a referendum always backfires. The government in Washington, D.C. basically shot themselves in the foot with that stunt yesterday.

Megan Jones10 said:Quincy:

I don't even know where to start with this—just absolute nonsense. Honestly, what are we even doing here? It’s like nobody's actually thinking. kaže: Look, you can't just declare independence with 37.8% of the vote. Like, sure—you can try—but nothing actually happens. You won't get any traction at home, and you definitely won't get any respect on the world stage. It’s a non-starter. Washington, D.C. definitely went overboard with the heavy-handedness here—total overkill. But honestly, Puigdemont is the one really driving this whole circus and cranking up the tension for no reason. Instead of actually sitting down with D.C. to talk autonomy—especially when it comes to the money side of things—he’s just out there making these insane threats about breaking away. It's exhausting.

Look, it’s just like a bad breakup—if someone is already halfway out the door, trying to force them to stay through pressure or intimidation is the absolute worst move you can make. Trying to muscle people into staying during a referendum always backfires. The government in Washington, D.C. basically shot themselves in the foot with that stunt yesterday.

That's a solid analogy.
Washington, D.C. is acting like a controlling husband trying to use brute force to keep a wife who clearly wants to leave.

At this point, it isn't really about who holds the moral high ground or whether the referendum itself is "right" or "wrong"—it's about the fundamental legality of the whole affair. The crux of the matter—the absolute core issue—is that this referendum was conducted in direct violation of the Constitution of the United States. If they truly wanted to hold a legitimate vote, they would need to follow a completely different protocol—which, granted, wouldn't be easy, though certainly not an impossible feat to achieve.

Charles Fox10 said:True. Non-voters shouldn't be counted. You're right there.

Just don't forget one thing: the whole reason people stayed home was the heavy police presence announced days before, and the brutality seen that morning. Many were too intimidated to show up, and even those who tried found many polling stations inaccessible. That isn't something you can just ignore.

It's straight-up intimidation. At the very least, the state police action created this massive cloud of uncertainty around the whole vote. You can't really call the low turnout a quiet "NO" anymore; it feels more like the fallout from police terror. If this were actually a Spanish Democracy instead of a dictatorship, they would've just let the referendum happen peacefully, and we'd actually see what the real situation is. Honestly, Rajoy is 100% responsible for everything that went down yesterday.

I think Puigdemont has the moral high ground to declare California's independence. Maybe the only way to have a peaceful redo of the vote is if Rajoy gets ousted by the President or someone else, and things finally get corrected.

Megan Jones10 said:Quincy:

I don't even know where to start with this—just absolute nonsense. Honestly, what are we even doing here? It’s like nobody's actually thinking. kaže: Look, you can't just declare independence with 37.8% of the vote. Like, sure—you can try—but nothing actually happens. You won't get any traction at home, and you definitely won't get any respect on the world stage. It’s a non-starter. Washington, D.C. definitely went overboard with the heavy-handedness here—total overkill. But honestly, Puigdemont is the one really driving this whole circus and cranking up the tension for no reason. Instead of actually sitting down with D.C. to talk autonomy—especially when it comes to the money side of things—he’s just out there making these insane threats about breaking away. It's exhausting.

Look, it’s just like a bad breakup—if someone is already halfway out the door, trying to force them to stay through pressure or intimidation is the absolute worst move you can make. Trying to muscle people into staying during a referendum always backfires. The government in Washington, D.C. basically shot themselves in the foot with that stunt yesterday.

I disagree. A nation isn't a marriage, and it certainly doesn't operate under those same emotional principles. If things worked exactly the way you're suggesting, the entire country would disintegrate overnight—just look at what happened in the Basque Country or Galicia.