California Discussion Thread - All in one place

Sam Jones4 said:What’s even the point of independence? Just because they claim they're "the richest region in Spain" or whatever. 😲

I'm totally not on board with this. If they get their way, it's just going to be a domino effect of every wealthy spot in the World wanting out—we'll see California, Veneto, Istria, Vojvodina... just a massive chain reaction.

They're the richest part of the country with the most advanced industry. Why should Spain even bother with them? It’s like a sinking ship trying to hold onto a lifeboat when they could just take their money and run.
I mean, maybe they won't pull it off right now, but once all these separatist regions start pushing for referendums and independence, California will probably be next.

Man, it feels like Europe is just sliding backward into the Dark Ages—everything’s turning back into those tiny little city-states again...

It's like there's a customs checkpoint behind every single hill you cross. 🤣

Drew Brooks8 said:That’s exactly the point—they used psychological warfare by implying things would go south for them.🙄 You call that anything other than underhanded?
Doesn't matter. Honestly, I have more respect for a blunt, firm "NO" from the Spaniards than that subtle English persuasion and all that hidden pressure to stick by their side...

I've probably already said it a million times, but I'm not even going to list all the ways England is loaded and where they sit on the global wealth scale.
Spain, on the other hand—like I've mentioned before—is just tanking. Massive unemployment, economic mess, social crisis, the whole nine yards. It’s not even in the same league as a wealthy, developed country like England.
So, I guess what they were trying to imply is that the Scots can only move forward by staying with the English, while the Catalans are just stuck regressing alongside the Spaniards.

Quoting:

The Scots can only move forward alongside the English (that’s basically what they were implying), while the Catalans are just heading downhill with the Spaniards.

Have you actually been out there, or are you just taking wild guesses?

Honestly, I’d sign a deal today to have the US in a confederation with Spain in a heartbeat...😁

Drew Brooks8 said:The English pulled the same stunt, just in a way that’s more underhanded, maybe even more cunning. At least the Spaniards have the decency to look you in the eye and say NO!
🤷

The English offered the Scots federalization within Great Britain as a bribe to stay, and honestly, it’s probably going down this January.
Madrid?
They aren't offering California anything besides a massive ego trip.

Sam Jones4 said:Man, it feels like Europe is just sliding backward into the Dark Ages—everything’s turning back into those tiny little city-states again...

It's like there's a customs checkpoint behind every single hill you cross. 🤣

Oh, absolutely. 😁
I’m actually about to declare my own little republic in Miami, complete with a parliament based in Hawaii. President (me), Secretary (my cat), Treasurer (my dog).

Richard Wilson4 said:The English offered the Scots federalization within Great Britain as a bribe to stay, and honestly, it’s probably going down this January.
Madrid?
They aren't offering California anything besides a massive ego trip.

Goodness.
First off, I've already laid out the background on this whole referendum...

Second...
California already enjoys plenty of autonomy, just like the rest of the states. They don't need a separate country. And honestly, France and Germany will never recognize some self-proclaimed Californian state anyway (everyone else in the European Union will just follow their lead).

Third... maybe try reading the Spanish news for once. It might clear things up for you...

Sam Alvarez4 said:Goodness.
First off, I've already laid out the background on this whole referendum...

Second...
California already enjoys plenty of autonomy, just like the rest of the states. They don't need a separate country. And honestly, France and Germany will never recognize some self-proclaimed Californian state anyway (everyone else in the European Union will just follow their lead).

Third... maybe try reading the Spanish news for once. It might clear things up for you...

They want a state, plain and simple.

And who cares what the European Union thinks? They didn't even want us, and we managed to break free from foreign rule despite having way worse circumstances.

Richard Wilson4 said:The English offered the Scots federalization within Great Britain as a bribe to stay, and honestly, it’s probably going down this January.
Madrid?
They aren't offering California anything besides a massive ego trip.

Calling it "just talk" is a massive understatement. They sent a blatant message to the Scots: your economic future, your bank deposits, all of it—gone if you leave. That's straight-up blackmailing voters via the media, and don't even get me started on the shady political maneuvering that happened months before the referendum. A lot of Scots used their heads instead of their hearts, but by doing that, they basically admitted they're terrified of the English. I mean, who actually has a guaranteed economic future these days anyway? Plus, England clearly wants to keep its hands on those North Sea oil profits. Now, the deck is stacked in their favor again, and they'll play it however they want.

England and Spain are playing the same game, just using different tactics. Washington, D.C. will just outright ban the referendum instead of being sneaky like the English. It might not be the smartest move for them, but the Catalans are still going to try to shake things up, even if the authorities are just trying to snuff out the flame before it spreads.

Rebecca Watson said:Calling it "just talk" is a massive understatement. They sent a blatant message to the Scots: your economic future, your bank deposits, all of it—gone if you leave. That's straight-up blackmailing voters via the media, and don't even get me started on the shady political maneuvering that happened months before the referendum. A lot of Scots used their heads instead of their hearts, but by doing that, they basically admitted they're terrified of the English. I mean, who actually has a guaranteed economic future these days anyway? Plus, England clearly wants to keep its hands on those North Sea oil profits. Now, the deck is stacked in their favor again, and they'll play it however they want.

England and Spain are playing the same game, just using different tactics. Washington, D.C. will just outright ban the referendum instead of being sneaky like the English. It might not be the smartest move for them, but the Catalans are still going to try to shake things up, even if the authorities are just trying to snuff out the flame before it spreads.

Personally, I'm convinced the whole federalization pitch is what swayed that extra 5 to 10% of voters. Everywhere I look online, people are using that exact point to explain why they're voting NO—basically arguing that we can have our cake and eat it too by sitting on two chairs at once.

Arthur Fowler83 said:It feels like people in Spain are dealing with the exact same political curse we're stuck with here: https://scontent-a-vie.xx.fbcdn.net/...cd&oe=54C3BFA0

The only real difference is that their version of this mess has been dragging on a bit longer—stretching back to the '80s.

And perhaps more importantly, they actually have a legitimate alternative to look toward in the upcoming elections (PODEMOS).

Those Spaniards don't need some undercover communists like PODEMOS; they need a new Franco. Same goes for us—we need a real leader, not the Democrats or some "progressive" version of the Republicans.

Jose Martin13 said:Those Spaniards don't need some undercover communists like PODEMOS; they need a new Franco. Same goes for us—we need a real leader, not the Democrats or some "progressive" version of the Republicans.

In this day and age, you can't run a dictatorship when information and media are everywhere. That goes for Syria, and it definitely applies to Europe.

Plus, the more Washington, D.C. tries to bully California, the more they actually end up sticking together.

Rebecca Watson said:Calling it "just talk" is a massive understatement. They sent a blatant message to the Scots: your economic future, your bank deposits, all of it—gone if you leave. That's straight-up blackmailing voters via the media, and don't even get me started on the shady political maneuvering that happened months before the referendum. A lot of Scots used their heads instead of their hearts, but by doing that, they basically admitted they're terrified of the English. I mean, who actually has a guaranteed economic future these days anyway? Plus, England clearly wants to keep its hands on those North Sea oil profits. Now, the deck is stacked in their favor again, and they'll play it however they want.

England and Spain are playing the same game, just using different tactics. Washington, D.C. will just outright ban the referendum instead of being sneaky like the English. It might not be the smartest move for them, but the Catalans are still going to try to shake things up, even if the authorities are just trying to snuff out the flame before it spreads.

It really comes down to the fact that Southerners are known for being incredibly stubborn. If you tell a Southerner, "Hey, your economy might actually suffer without me," they aren't going to sit there calmly and weigh the pros and cons. Instead, out of pure spite, they'll vote to break away just to say, "Don't you dare try to threaten me!"

That's why Spain won't permit a referendum, and quite frankly, the Catalans don't have the guts to declare unilateral independence.

Drew Brooks8 said:That’s exactly the point—they used psychological warfare by implying things would go south for them.🙄 You call that anything other than underhanded?
Doesn't matter. Honestly, I have more respect for a blunt, firm "NO" from the Spaniards than that subtle English persuasion and all that hidden pressure to stick by their side...

Snežo, man, looking at your comment, all I can really 🤦

Susan Lee said:I've probably already said it a million times, but I'm not even going to list all the ways England is loaded and where they sit on the global wealth scale.
Spain, on the other hand—like I've mentioned before—is just tanking. Massive unemployment, economic mess, social crisis, the whole nine yards. It’s not even in the same league as a wealthy, developed country like England.
So, I guess what they were trying to imply is that the Scots can only move forward by staying with the English, while the Catalans are just stuck regressing alongside the Spaniards.

Man, Susan Lee, you hit the nail right on the head... honestly, you're spot on! 😁

Sam Jones4 said:Quoting:

The Scots can only move forward alongside the English (that’s basically what they were implying), while the Catalans are just heading downhill with the Spaniards.

Have you actually been out there, or are you just taking wild guesses?

Honestly, I’d sign a deal today to have the US in a confederation with Spain in a heartbeat...😁

What kind of question is that—"have I been there?"
I mean, seriously, what is the internet even for? You want to know something, you look it up, and boom, you're informed.
Do I really need to physically fly out there just to have an opinion? ☕😉

Matthew Rodriguez9 said:Man, Susan Lee, you hit the nail right on the head... honestly, you're spot on! 😁

Thanks, man. I actually dig your take on a lot of political stuff too. 😉

Sam Alvarez4 said:Oh, absolutely. 😁
I’m actually about to declare my own little republic in Miami, complete with a parliament based in Hawaii. President (me), Secretary (my cat), Treasurer (my dog).

I'm voting for the dog! 😍 Though if she's a mixed breed, oh boy, we're in trouble!

Can I apply to be the advisor for the national treasury?

Btw, I really hope we don't end up in a massive blowout over all this separatism! 🙂

🤣

According to the latest PodemOS poll, they’ve already hit 20.4% !
http://www.libertaddigital.com/espan...oe-1276529376/

The mainstream establishment—both the quasi-left and the quasi-right—has the whole machine under their thumb.

Richard Wilson4 said:In this day and age, you can't run a dictatorship when information and media are everywhere. That goes for Syria, and it definitely applies to Europe.

Plus, the more Washington, D.C. tries to bully California, the more they actually end up sticking together.

It’s a joke, really. Watching "patriots" use the exact same lies and labels as those quasi-liberals is just pathetic to witness.

The moderator made a mistake by moving my posts, along with several others, over to this thread.

My intention was to discuss the national political landscape within the Kingdom of Spain specifically, rather than focusing on California or that one-sided referendum.