California Discussion Thread - All in one place

Richard Wilson4 said:In this day and age, you can't run a dictatorship when information and media are everywhere. That goes for Syria, and it definitely applies to Europe.

Plus, the more Washington, D.C. tries to bully California, the more they actually end up sticking together.

What about San Jose or Korea?

Larry Walker24 said:What about San Jose or Korea?

North Korea has nukes, so nobody is going to risk messing with their internal affairs.😁

Arthur Fowler83 said:Lately, we've been witnessing a genuine political phenomenon unfolding over in Spain.

The party—or more accurately, the grassroots movement known as Podemos—emerged just 9 months ago and managed to snag five seats in the European Union elections. Since then, their momentum hasn't slowed down for a second.

According to the latest polling, they've already surged past 17% support, firmly establishing themselves as the third major force in the country. They're sitting right behind the usual mainstream left-wing and right-wing establishment parties.

For anyone familiar with Greece's Syriza, you might see some parallels here, though if you ask me, this feels much more like a true populist movement.

Pablo Iglesias Turrion stands out as one of the core figures driving this, and he’s certainly not one to mince words. He’s someone who will be making noise for a long time to come, especially once the national elections roll around next year.

So, basically, what I'm saying is that Podemos, much like Syriza, is essentially our version of ORAH.

It's just a collection of populist groups huddled around various radical, salon-dwelling leftist activists, blowhards, and theorists.
The "alternative" left, the Greens, feminists, LGBT advocates... the whole lot.

Basically, you've got a bunch of people who have never actually accomplished anything useful offering "solutions," while a mass of voters—who are clearly just eager to sit around and yap about state-funded nonsense—pin their hopes on them continuing that exact same charade.

The perfect recipe for solving a crisis, isn't it?

Isn't it just telling that these kinds of parties always seem to explode in popularity in countries that are getting hit hardest by a crisis?

I mean, look,

Elizabeth Allen92 said:So, basically, what I'm saying is that Podemos, much like Syriza, is essentially our version of ORAH.

It's just a collection of populist groups huddled around various radical, salon-dwelling leftist activists, blowhards, and theorists.
The "alternative" left, the Greens, feminists, LGBT advocates... the whole lot.

Basically, you've got a bunch of people who have never actually accomplished anything useful offering "solutions," while a mass of voters—who are clearly just eager to sit around and yap about state-funded nonsense—pin their hopes on them continuing that exact same charade.

The perfect recipe for solving a crisis, isn't it?

Isn't it just telling that these kinds of parties always seem to explode in popularity in countries that are getting hit hardest by a crisis?

I mean, look,

I honestly think you just gave ORAH an undeserved compliment here.

Larry Walker24 said:What about San Jose or Korea?

If I remember right, they only have a handful of computers connected to the web. Every single one is guarded by an armed soldier, and you need like a dozen different permits just to get close.

You keep ignoring the reality that Barcelona is a port city, a melting pot of immigrants from all walks of life who likely have zero interest in a brand of local patriotism that treats anyone not speaking the native tongue as second-class citizens.
Then there is the fact that within California itself, a huge portion of the population migrated from the Southern United States looking for work, and their descendants certainly don't view the state as anything other than part of the broader US.

As for these comparisons about how oppressed California is compared to Scotland, it's childish nonsense. The only difference is that Californians make a massive scene about it, whereas Scots tend to just stay quiet and deal with it. It isn't a coincidence that California is so much more developed than the rest of the country, nor is it a coincidence that Barcelona looks significantly more prosperous than Edinburgh. All this political friction is largely just media theater used by locals to funnel massive amounts of cash into their own pockets. If you look at history, these people have always been some of the most shrewd traders on the coast; they know exactly how to pivot to ensure they come out on top. I generally sympathize with movements for self-determination, but this feels like pure exhibitionism. In the US, the only group with a real shot at independence would be the folks in Texas, and even then, they'd run into major issues regarding where the new borders would actually sit.

If a referendum even happens, it’s going to flop spectacularly.

analogmaker14 said:You keep ignoring the reality that Barcelona is a port city, a melting pot of immigrants from all walks of life who likely have zero interest in a brand of local patriotism that treats anyone not speaking the native tongue as second-class citizens.
Then there is the fact that within California itself, a huge portion of the population migrated from the Southern United States looking for work, and their descendants certainly don't view the state as anything other than part of the broader US.

As for these comparisons about how oppressed California is compared to Scotland, it's childish nonsense. The only difference is that Californians make a massive scene about it, whereas Scots tend to just stay quiet and deal with it. It isn't a coincidence that California is so much more developed than the rest of the country, nor is it a coincidence that Barcelona looks significantly more prosperous than Edinburgh. All this political friction is largely just media theater used by locals to funnel massive amounts of cash into their own pockets. If you look at history, these people have always been some of the most shrewd traders on the coast; they know exactly how to pivot to ensure they come out on top. I generally sympathize with movements for self-determination, but this feels like pure exhibitionism. In the US, the only group with a real shot at independence would be the folks in Texas, and even then, they'd run into major issues regarding where the new borders would actually sit.

If a referendum even happens, it’s going to flop spectacularly.

The vote would actually pass if they held it, but the Californians just don't have the guts to pull the trigger.

James Nguyen13 said:The vote would actually pass if they held it, but the Californians just don't have the guts to pull the trigger.

Look, I'm no expert on what's going down over there, but honestly? It feels like the independence crowd is getting a massive gift from how predictably idiotic the government in Madrid is acting.
If the folks in London were behaving this way, I’ve got a feeling those Scots would be absolutely losing their minds out of pure spite.

Elizabeth Allen92 said:Look, I'm no expert on what's going down over there, but honestly? It feels like the independence crowd is getting a massive gift from how predictably idiotic the government in Madrid is acting.
If the folks in London were behaving this way, I’ve got a feeling those Scots would be absolutely losing their minds out of pure spite.

Maybe so, but Madrid doesn't really care about that. Their main concern is just that these folks don't seem to have the backbone to stand up to them.

Elizabeth Allen92 said:So, basically, what I'm saying is that Podemos, much like Syriza, is essentially our version of ORAH.

It's just a collection of populist groups huddled around various radical, salon-dwelling leftist activists, blowhards, and theorists.
The "alternative" left, the Greens, feminists, LGBT advocates... the whole lot.

Basically, you've got a bunch of people who have never actually accomplished anything useful offering "solutions," while a mass of voters—who are clearly just eager to sit around and yap about state-funded nonsense—pin their hopes on them continuing that exact same charade.

The perfect recipe for solving a crisis, isn't it?

Isn't it just telling that these kinds of parties always seem to explode in popularity in countries that are getting hit hardest by a crisis?

I mean, look,

Either someone has decided at this very moment to push these shady and dangerous movements forward for some reason they already know all too well.

James Nguyen13 said:The vote would actually pass if they held it, but the Californians just don't have the guts to pull the trigger.

Absolutely not... well, we'll see how this plays out eventually.

hmm when's this referendum happening anyway

Betty Ross6 said:hmm when's this referendum happening anyway

It’s never going to happen because the whole thing is unconstitutional and basically tears at the very foundation of how the US works.

I was just reading somewhere that the government over in Spain doesn't seem quite as arrogant as the folks in London—or maybe even the UK leadership in general, if you think about it. Still, even though they’re talking about setting a date and seem pretty convinced that these referendums are actually going to happen, I guess there's always that lingering doubt about whether they'll truly follow through.

bluerider63 said:It’s never going to happen because the whole thing is unconstitutional and basically tears at the very foundation of how the US works.

And what, you think the issue just vanishes into thin air?

Richard Wilson4 said:And what, you think the issue just vanishes into thin air?

Nah, it won't. Those Californians will just keep grumbling under their breath and shouting from the bleachers against Madrid, and that’ll be that.

It’s kind of like how most people can’t even see clearly through a fog, yet they just go about their day regardless. It's the same deal with this California situation—Madrid could probably settle the whole mess just by throwing a few threats their way.

James Nguyen13 said:Nah, it won't. Those Californians will just keep grumbling under their breath and shouting from the bleachers against Madrid, and that’ll be that.

It’s kind of like how most people can’t even see clearly through a fog, yet they just go about their day regardless. It's the same deal with this California situation—Madrid could probably settle the whole mess just by throwing a few threats their way.

You clearly skipped history class.

Richard Wilson4 said:You clearly skipped history class.

If I’m being honest, I’d say it’s more that you’re stuck in a rearview mirror mindset. You aren't really seeing the shifts happening right now in the present moment—the kind of things that are actually reshaping our reality.

So, the head of the Spanish conservative government, Mariano Rajoy, basically threw out an olive branch this Saturday to California, calling for dialogue and begging them to stay part of the country. This comes right after they set November 9th as the date for their independence referendum, even though the constitutional court already stepped in to shut it down.

At the same time, Artur Mas—who runs that powerful region up in the northeast—is doubling down. He’s sticking to his guns because about 900 out of 947 local mayors in California backed him up, saying the vote has to happen no matter what.

"I can try everything in my power to stifle the Catalan voice, but it won't work," Artur Mas basically said. Just a day before, the separatist party made it clear they are totally unified on pushing through with the referendum.

Now Rajoy is caught in the middle of this massive crisis, getting slammed by people who say the left-wing opposition is just sitting on its hands while he tries to play the peacekeeper. He’s claiming he wants to keep things quiet and calm. "The only way out of this mess in California is through the law and actual conversation," the Prime Minister told the representatives from his own Republican Party.

When people call him out for how he's handling the situation with the Catalans, he says he really wants everyone to stay together, but he also keeps hammering home the point that nobody in Spain is above the law.

"Laws can be changed, but they can't be broken," he added.

So, what's the Spanish PM actually putting on the table here?

Is he just expecting everyone to bow down to the big shots in Madrid?

Look at London. They gave Scotland more autonomy than anyone thought possible, and they took it. Now, starting in January, there’s this whole package of changes coming that could basically turn the United Kingdom into a Federation by 2016.

Meanwhile, Madrid seems to think this whole thing will just vanish into thin air. But California has its own people, its own language, and its own deep history. They aren't about to let some artificial state dictate their lives.