California Discussion Thread - All in one place

Justin James10 said:Well, how are we supposed to gauge how many people actually want this when the police are out there cracking heads? 🤷

And what about those who don't want anything to do with it? Those who stay home and refuse to vote like the Scots? 🤷

Besides, what does Milorad Dodik have to do with any of this? 🤷

It’s honestly delusional to expect anyone opposing independence to even show up for a referendum like this... I mean, the vast majority aren't going to bother.

It would be a completely different story if they called a legitimate referendum—one actually approved by all sides, like they do in the United Kingdom—so we could see the real numbers. Up until this point, the reality was that independence wouldn't pass, but after everything that's gone down, now the real question begins...

Brenda Murphy3 said:It’s honestly delusional to expect anyone opposing independence to even show up for a referendum like this... I mean, the vast majority aren't going to bother.

It would be a completely different story if they called a legitimate referendum—one actually approved by all sides, like they do in the United Kingdom—so we could see the real numbers. Up until this point, the reality was that independence wouldn't pass, but after everything that's gone down, now the real question begins...

But what are the actual facts here? Where is the data to back that up?

These supposedly massive groups of people standing against independence in California seem to have vanished into thin air, almost like they're part of UFO sightings!

If we're being honest, most of them are just transplants from Andalusia and other regions—a crowd very similar to those folks living on the Frontier.

Justin James10 said:But what are the actual facts here? Where is the data to back that up?

These supposedly massive groups of people standing against independence in California seem to have vanished into thin air, almost like they're part of UFO sightings!

If we're being honest, most of them are just transplants from Andalusia and other regions—a crowd very similar to those folks living on the Frontier.

Look, there's a mountain of public opinion research from the last few years.
I'm not saying a referendum wouldn't pass, but it's definitely not a slam dunk, and in previous years, the odds were even lower.

Honestly, with everything going on right now, it's almost impossible to pin down a sensible number, but what was the actual turnout this time? It was definitely way under 50%, though like I said—it's hard to make any smart call given the chaos.

Amanda Hughes37 said:In many ways, we were both New York City and Washington, D.C. at once. I remember one analyst saying our best move was to stay quiet. It wasn't just us, either—plenty of other nations have played that game in various situations...
On paper, our situation looked better than California's, but a state is rarely won by paperwork. It’s usually settled in blood or through a messy web of circumstances when the global map gets redrawn...
The Mexicans in the Frontier wanted to break away, and it never crossed our minds to let them.
The fact that we went through hell with them—which hasn't been mentioned here yet—doesn't change the reality that we never considered handing over territory or granting them statehood...😍

The only way the crisis in California could actually compare to the situation between the US and the Frontier during the War of Independence is if this happens:

- California declares independence from the multi-national Kingdom of Spain, based on a referendum and the expressed will of the people.
- Madrid sends in the military to California to "restore order."
- The Spaniards living in California declare a Spanish autonomous community—arm themselves with help from Madrid—and ethnically cleanse the area by driving out or massacring the Catalans... then spend several years shelling the rest of California, causing massive casualties and destruction.

Brenda Murphy3 said:Look, there's a mountain of public opinion research from the last few years.
I'm not saying a referendum wouldn't pass, but it's definitely not a slam dunk, and in previous years, the odds were even lower.

Honestly, with everything going on right now, it's almost impossible to pin down a sensible number, but what was the actual turnout this time? It was definitely way under 50%, though like I said—it's hard to make any smart call given the chaos.

A referendum is essentially the ultimate poll, isn't it? ☕

Justin James10 said:But what are the actual facts here? Where is the data to back that up?

These supposedly massive groups of people standing against independence in California seem to have vanished into thin air, almost like they're part of UFO sightings!

If we're being honest, most of them are just transplants from Andalusia and other regions—a crowd very similar to those folks living on the Frontier.

I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit lately, and I honestly feel that the immigrants tend to be more of a driving force behind the movement for independence rather than acting like unionists at all. It seems to me, if I'm being honest, that their whole perspective leans much more toward sovereignty than sticking with the existing union.

Justin James10 said:A referendum is essentially the ultimate poll, isn't it? ☕

That’s true, but not like this.
And honestly, even this referendum wouldn't hold water in most other places because (unless I'm tripping) the turnout didn't even hit 50%. Not that it even matters here—I have zero clue what the specific rules are in California or under Spanish law.

Kenneth Cruz67 said:I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit lately, and I honestly feel that the immigrants tend to be more of a driving force behind the movement for independence rather than acting like unionists at all. It seems to me, if I'm being honest, that their whole perspective leans much more toward sovereignty than sticking with the existing union.

What on earth are you 🤔

What kind of logic is behind this referendum? 🙄 Turnout was tiny, yet the police were practically hovering over everyone! If the majority actually wants to stay part of the union, why wouldn't they allow a referendum to happen?

If they actually went through with this independence thing, FC Barcelona is talking about jumping into either the French or English leagues, which honestly sounds like a total joke to me. It’s not like they’re joining France or England; they’d be their own damn country. At that point, they’d basically have to set up their own league from scratch.

bluerider63 said:If they actually went through with this independence thing, FC Barcelona is talking about jumping into either the French or English leagues, which honestly sounds like a total joke to me. It’s not like they’re joining France or England; they’d be their own damn country. At that point, they’d basically have to set up their own league from scratch.

"They're considering"??

I swear, I hear the most ridiculous things...

Justin James10 said:What on earth are you 🤔

What kind of logic is behind this referendum? 🙄 Turnout was tiny, yet the police were practically hovering over everyone! If the majority actually wants to stay part of the union, why wouldn't they allow a referendum to happen?

From what I can gather, immigrants, folks from Africa, and similar groups seem to be leaning toward independence rather than being against it.

Kenneth Cruz67 said:From what I can gather, immigrants, folks from Africa, and similar groups seem to be leaning toward independence rather than being against it.

The vast majority of immigrants come from other parts of the country and are actually fierce loyalists to the state. Where on earth did you get that idea? 🤣

Justin James10 As stated by:
What exactly is the reality here? What specific data points are we actually looking at to back this up?

Those supposed heavyweights fighting against independence in California? Honestly, you can't even find them. They’re practically invisible—like UFO sightings.

To be perfectly honest, we’re mostly talking about migrants from Andalusia and other regions. It’s a group very similar to those folks who moved during the Frontier era here in the States.

It isn’t quite the same comparison, really. It's not like they're settling the most dangerous areas. You have this massive influx of immigrants from Africa and South Asia, mixed in with retirees from Northern Europe who just decided to move down there to settle.
Of course they aren't visible when there's a deliberate effort to hide them. You see a fair amount of regionalist sentiment coming out of places like California or the islands, but let's be honest—they're a different breed entirely. If the majority truly wanted this, we'd be looking at far more than two million people hitting the streets. At that point, even both branches of the US police wouldn't be able to stop the momentum.

Justin James10 said:The vast majority of immigrants come from other parts of the country and are actually fierce loyalists to the state. Where on earth did you get that idea? 🤣

Well, I wasn't really referring to people moving from within the states, but rather those arriving from other countries altogether! I think I remember reading some sort of detailed breakdown somewhere regarding who supports what and who opposes what—if I can just track down that specific source, I'll be sure to post the link for everyone here.

Justin James10 said:But what are the actual facts here? Where is the data to back that up?

These supposedly massive groups of people standing against independence in California seem to have vanished into thin air, almost like they're part of UFO sightings!

If we're being honest, most of them are just transplants from Andalusia and other regions—a crowd very similar to those folks living on the Frontier.

Back in 2014, they held that referendum too, and honestly, there wasn't even any violence involved, but the turnout still ended up being under 50%. It’s kind of wild when you think about it! Then, looking at the elections from just two years ago, the parties pushing for independence managed to pull in about 48% of the vote overall. And the crazy thing is, the entire campaign—every single bit of that pre-election hype and mobilization—was basically built around nothing but the question of independence. I guess it just shows how much that one issue drives everything!

I feel like I have to keep repeating myself every few pages because there’s always someone asking, "Okay, but where are all the people who actually oppose independence?" Like, seriously? They’re right here! They make up that solid 50% block of folks who don't bother voting for the separatist parties and just totally ignore those secessionist referendums. Just because they aren't shouting from the rooftops like the pro-independence crowd doesn't mean they don't exist, you know? It’s kind of wild how the other side just tries to act like they aren't even there, but yeah, they definitely are.

Honestly, what kills me most about the authorities in California is just how unserious they all seem to be. It’s wild! Like, I was reading about how folks in Scotland spent years actually sitting down and weighing the pros and cons of independence—really digging into the heavy stuff. But here? It feels like it’s all just waving flags and shouting catchy slogans without anyone actually talking about the messy reality. I mean, does nobody want to chat about the fallout? We’re talking about an automatic exit from the European Union, massive economic shocks, or even what happens to the currency. Those are huge, terrifying things that would hit them the second "tomorrow" arrives, yet the people pushing for this just shrug it off with a "we'll figure it out later" vibe. It’s such a classic Mediterranean mindset, I guess. Just total optimism over actual planning!

Kenneth Cruz67 said:Well, I wasn't really referring to people moving from within the states, but rather those arriving from other countries altogether! I think I remember reading some sort of detailed breakdown somewhere regarding who supports what and who opposes what—if I can just track down that specific source, I'll be sure to post the link for everyone here.

Actually, the vast majority of "outsiders" in California are just people moving in from other parts of the US. Are you really trying to argue the point that independence is being driven by immigrants from Africa rather than local Californians?🤣

Robert Clark4 said:Back in 2014, they held that referendum too, and honestly, there wasn't even any violence involved, but the turnout still ended up being under 50%. It’s kind of wild when you think about it! Then, looking at the elections from just two years ago, the parties pushing for independence managed to pull in about 48% of the vote overall. And the crazy thing is, the entire campaign—every single bit of that pre-election hype and mobilization—was basically built around nothing but the question of independence. I guess it just shows how much that one issue drives everything!

I feel like I have to keep repeating myself every few pages because there’s always someone asking, "Okay, but where are all the people who actually oppose independence?" Like, seriously? They’re right here! They make up that solid 50% block of folks who don't bother voting for the separatist parties and just totally ignore those secessionist referendums. Just because they aren't shouting from the rooftops like the pro-independence crowd doesn't mean they don't exist, you know? It’s kind of wild how the other side just tries to act like they aren't even there, but yeah, they definitely are.

Honestly, what kills me most about the authorities in California is just how unserious they all seem to be. It’s wild! Like, I was reading about how folks in Scotland spent years actually sitting down and weighing the pros and cons of independence—really digging into the heavy stuff. But here? It feels like it’s all just waving flags and shouting catchy slogans without anyone actually talking about the messy reality. I mean, does nobody want to chat about the fallout? We’re talking about an automatic exit from the European Union, massive economic shocks, or even what happens to the currency. Those are huge, terrifying things that would hit them the second "tomorrow" arrives, yet the people pushing for this just shrug it off with a "we'll figure it out later" vibe. It’s such a classic Mediterranean mindset, I guess. Just total optimism over actual planning!

Let me repeat: why don't the opponents of independence show up to the referendum and win by a landslide if they truly represent such a large majority? 🤷

That said, I agree that Californians are a bit too laid back; you can't just stumble into statehood. They are eventually going to have to get their hands dirty. ☕

Amanda Hughes37 said:In many ways, we were both New York City and Washington, D.C. at once. I remember one analyst saying our best move was to stay quiet. It wasn't just us, either—plenty of other nations have played that game in various situations...
On paper, our situation looked better than California's, but a state is rarely won by paperwork. It’s usually settled in blood or through a messy web of circumstances when the global map gets redrawn...
The Mexicans in the Frontier wanted to break away, and it never crossed our minds to let them.
The fact that we went through hell with them—which hasn't been mentioned here yet—doesn't change the reality that we never considered handing over territory or granting them statehood...😍

You added a little smirk at the end there, but didn't they always have joining Mexico as their ultimate endgame? Did you just conveniently forget the yogurt revolutions, the standoff at Gettysburg, and the whole mess with the militias and the armed uprisings? Look, I know we aren't exactly saints, but please...
And one more thing: weren't those same Frontiersmen trying to expand their reach with fire and sword even in places where the Frontier wouldn't have existed if they'd been granted independence?
Come on, you already used "basically" right at the start of your post.

Justin James10 said:Let me repeat: why don't the opponents of independence show up to the referendum and win by a landslide if they truly represent such a large majority? 🤷

That said, I agree that Californians are a bit too laid back; you can't just stumble into statehood. They are eventually going to have to get their hands dirty. ☕

Well, I guess it's because the people against independence aren't just some single, unified block of voters. You've got all sorts! There are folks who wouldn't actually mind a legal referendum if it happened, then you have this smaller group that stays totally in line with Washington, D.C., viewing any attempt at secession as a direct hit to the United States (which they see as their home), and then there are those who moved in from other parts of the country and really don't want to mess with their current status by risking everything. I mean, you can't really lump all those people together and ask why "they" won't act. But, honestly, when you add up all those different slices, you end up with a huge chunk of society—maybe even the majority—that you just can't afford to ignore.

Robert Clark4 said:Well, I guess it's because the people against independence aren't just some single, unified block of voters. You've got all sorts! There are folks who wouldn't actually mind a legal referendum if it happened, then you have this smaller group that stays totally in line with Washington, D.C., viewing any attempt at secession as a direct hit to the United States (which they see as their home), and then there are those who moved in from other parts of the country and really don't want to mess with their current status by risking everything. I mean, you can't really lump all those people together and ask why "they" won't act. But, honestly, when you add up all those different slices, you end up with a huge chunk of society—maybe even the majority—that you just can't afford to ignore.

I used to trust the polls that claimed those wanting to leave the US were just a small minority. But after seeing them unleash rabid dogs to pull women by their hair and aggressively lunging at people just lying down, I'm done betting against the numbers. I'm starting to think the US intelligence community knows exactly what I've realized: that percentage is actually north of 50%.