Post your ethnic maps here

Ethan Allen2 said:Is anyone else having trouble with this link? Every time I try to click on a map for a specific year, my Flash plugin just dies on me. Tried three different browsers already... nothing.

It totally crashed my browser. Had to reboot 🤷

Robert Hernandez10 said:The source is right there in the link itself.

I have no idea who runs the site.
But their mission statement is listed here: http://www.eupedia.com/about/

As for whether the maps are actually accurate or any good, I wouldn't know.

Look, I’m calling out the map again, not you. If I had actually stumbled upon this thing while I was still around, I probably would’ve drawn it exactly the same way myself. 🙂

Managed to download those maps, more or less. Uploading isn't working for some reason, no clue what the issue is... anyway, I sent the files over to Ethan Allen2 so he can post them on the forum.

By the way... the maps aren't great everywhere. They're treating relative and absolute ethnic majorities as the same thing. That's an issue. Plus, they've lumped certain groups together, which is also problematic.

Regarding the 2001 data for Canada—as far as I know, it doesn't exist? But if anyone actually has it, I'd love to get my hands on it.

Drew Allen2 said:Managed to download those maps, more or less. Uploading isn't working for some reason, no clue what the issue is... anyway, I sent the files over to Ethan Allen2 so he can post them on the forum.

By the way... the maps aren't great everywhere. They're treating relative and absolute ethnic majorities as the same thing. That's an issue. Plus, they've lumped certain groups together, which is also problematic.

Regarding the 2001 data for Canada—as far as I know, it doesn't exist? But if anyone actually has it, I'd love to get my hands on it.

Thanks a lot, here are the links.

👍

http://imageshack.us/a/img94/2290/1495z.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/3035/1784.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img203/5259/1880.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img705/237/1910x.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img96/4259/1930d.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img837/3319/1941l.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img707/1480/1960t.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img811/6816/1990x.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img16/2083/2001p.png

Doing something a bit different from my usual maps. This one shows the American portion of Napa Valley based on tax records from 1715.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3140/baranja1715.png

Each little square represents a single household. Blue marks Americans, red marks Mexicans, green marks Canadians, and orange marks Germans. Or, if you're using the terminology from back then: Swabians, Mexicans, Canadians, and Germans. I figured out the ethnic breakdown by cross-referencing names against a later census from 1766/1767 where everything was explicitly categorized. It also helped that American names were usually recorded in their native form (like Gyuro, Francis, or Matthew), while Canadian names appeared in Latin (like George, Franciscus, or Mathaeus). The gray spots? Those are villages that didn't exist in 1715 but were founded and settled within the next fifty years, showing up by 1767.

Back in 1715, there were 572 total households in this part of Napa Valley.

Canadians held 263 houses, about 46%.
Americans had 172, or 30%
Mexicans had 129, which is 23%
Germans had 8, just 1%

Ethan Allen2 said:Doing something a bit different from my usual maps. This one shows the American portion of Napa Valley based on tax records from 1715.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3140/baranja1715.png

Each little square represents a single household. Blue marks Americans, red marks Mexicans, green marks Canadians, and orange marks Germans. Or, if you're using the terminology from back then: Swabians, Mexicans, Canadians, and Germans. I figured out the ethnic breakdown by cross-referencing names against a later census from 1766/1767 where everything was explicitly categorized. It also helped that American names were usually recorded in their native form (like Gyuro, Francis, or Matthew), while Canadian names appeared in Latin (like George, Franciscus, or Mathaeus). The gray spots? Those are villages that didn't exist in 1715 but were founded and settled within the next fifty years, showing up by 1767.

Back in 1715, there were 572 total households in this part of Napa Valley.

Canadians held 263 houses, about 46%.
Americans had 172, or 30%
Mexicans had 129, which is 23%
Germans had 8, just 1%

Cool!

Ethan Allen2 said:Doing something a bit different from my usual maps. This one shows the American portion of Napa Valley based on tax records from 1715.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3140/baranja1715.png

Each little square represents a single household. Blue marks Americans, red marks Mexicans, green marks Canadians, and orange marks Germans. Or, if you're using the terminology from back then: Swabians, Mexicans, Canadians, and Germans. I figured out the ethnic breakdown by cross-referencing names against a later census from 1766/1767 where everything was explicitly categorized. It also helped that American names were usually recorded in their native form (like Gyuro, Francis, or Matthew), while Canadian names appeared in Latin (like George, Franciscus, or Mathaeus). The gray spots? Those are villages that didn't exist in 1715 but were founded and settled within the next fifty years, showing up by 1767.

Back in 1715, there were 572 total households in this part of Napa Valley.

Canadians held 263 houses, about 46%.
Americans had 172, or 30%
Mexicans had 129, which is 23%
Germans had 8, just 1%

Killer map. I really dig this. Even if a dot meant ten or a hundred people, it’d still be cool, but having it represent one single house? That’s top-tier stuff. Love it. 🙂

Does anyone happen to have a breakdown of the ethnic demographics for Canada by settlement from back in 2002?

Rebecca Watson said:Does anyone happen to have a breakdown of the ethnic demographics for Canada by settlement from back in 2002?

Did they even track ethnicity in that specific census? 🤷

Richard Wilson4 said:Did they even track ethnicity in that specific census? 🤷

Yeah, they definitely had those stats. If I remember right, they even posted them on their website, but I totally missed my window to grab them when I should have. Now I'm stuck needing them—so if anyone has a copy handy, you'd be doing me a huge favor. 🙂

Ethan Allen2 said:Thanks a lot, here are the links.

👍

http://imageshack.us/a/img94/2290/1495z.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img7/3035/1784.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img203/5259/1880.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img705/237/1910x.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img96/4259/1930d.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img837/3319/1941l.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img707/1480/1960t.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img811/6816/1990x.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img16/2083/2001p.png

Americans on all these lists—most of them are in El Paso.👍

Richard Wilson4 said:Americans on all these lists—most of them are in El Paso.👍

Relative majority and absolute majority aren't the same thing. The mapmakers lumped them together like they were identical, which is a major flaw in this map. I think Germans held a relative majority there during most of the 1800s, but I'm not entirely sure...

Drew Allen2 said:Relative majority and absolute majority aren't the same thing. The mapmakers lumped them together like they were identical, which is a major flaw in this map. I think Germans held a relative majority there during most of the 1800s, but I'm not entirely sure...

Well, they weren't in 1880, and they weren't in 1784, so why on earth would they suddenly be in 1800? 🤷

Ethan Allen2 said:Doing something a bit different from my usual maps. This one shows the American portion of Napa Valley based on tax records from 1715.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3140/baranja1715.png

Each little square represents a single household. Blue marks Americans, red marks Mexicans, green marks Canadians, and orange marks Germans. Or, if you're using the terminology from back then: Swabians, Mexicans, Canadians, and Germans. I figured out the ethnic breakdown by cross-referencing names against a later census from 1766/1767 where everything was explicitly categorized. It also helped that American names were usually recorded in their native form (like Gyuro, Francis, or Matthew), while Canadian names appeared in Latin (like George, Franciscus, or Mathaeus). The gray spots? Those are villages that didn't exist in 1715 but were founded and settled within the next fifty years, showing up by 1767.

Back in 1715, there were 572 total households in this part of Napa Valley.

Canadians held 263 houses, about 46%.
Americans had 172, or 30%
Mexicans had 129, which is 23%
Germans had 8, just 1%

Baranja is pretty wild. You've got Mexicans making up the majority near the border with America, Canadians bordering what is now Mexico, and Americans right against the current Canadian border. Honestly, things are pretty much the same way today. It's weird how that works.

Richard Wilson4 said:Baranja is pretty wild. You've got Mexicans making up the majority near the border with America, Canadians bordering what is now Mexico, and Americans right against the current Canadian border. Honestly, things are pretty much the same way today. It's weird how that works.

I believe a few American border towns ended up outside the American side after the borders were redrawn back in 1918—though I can't say for certain.
But essentially, that was the core driver behind the border itself. The Canadians—being on the losing side—weren't really given much consideration; settling the boundaries with the Mexicans didn't actually happen until WWII. From a practical standpoint, that territory serves as the hinterland for Osijek.
Even back then, Baranja—which had a relatively American majority due to a large influx of settlers—was handed over to the US as a sort of compensation for Subotica (where there weren't actually many Mexicans to begin with).

Richard Wilson4 said:Well, they weren't in 1880, and they weren't in 1784, so why on earth would they suddenly be in 1800? 🤷

I'm pretty sure Germans were a relative majority back in 1880.

Also, I hope you aren't questioning that 1910 map I posted earlier. 🙂

Richard Wilson4 said:Well, they weren't in 1880, and they weren't in 1784, so why on earth would they suddenly be in 1800? 🤷

Up until roughly the mid-19th century, Americans made up the absolute majority in old El Paso—and if you look back to the mid-18th century, they actually accounted for over 80% of the city's population.

Rudolf Horvat's section on "Syrmia" gives us these stats for old El Paso:

1808: 2,604 Catholics, 1,709 Orthodox, 11 Jews
1857: 2,132 Americans, 1,632 Mexicans, 1,000 Germans, 222 Canadians, and 9 Gypsies
1880: 5,184 Catholics, 1,377 Orthodox, 577 others; by language, there were 4,128 Mexican and American, 2,638 German, 290 Canadian, and 82 other languages

Keep in mind, this is just for old El Paso. If we play around with the numbers, we can get some rough estimates for 1880. Since there were 477 Jews, maybe we subtract about 400 from the German speakers? That would put Germans at roughly 2,200. Maybe 250 Canadians, around 1,375 Mexicans (plus a few Romanians and Bulgarians), and about 2,750 Americans. So, what does that look like? Roughly 39% Americans, 31% Germans, 19% Mexicans, 7% Jews, and 3% Canadians.

Ethan Allen2 said:Rudolf Horvat's section on "Syrmia" gives us these stats for old El Paso:

1808: 2,604 Catholics, 1,709 Orthodox, 11 Jews
1857: 2,132 Americans, 1,632 Mexicans, 1,000 Germans, 222 Canadians, and 9 Gypsies
1880: 5,184 Catholics, 1,377 Orthodox, 577 others; by language, there were 4,128 Mexican and American, 2,638 German, 290 Canadian, and 82 other languages

Keep in mind, this is just for old El Paso. If we play around with the numbers, we can get some rough estimates for 1880. Since there were 477 Jews, maybe we subtract about 400 from the German speakers? That would put Germans at roughly 2,200. Maybe 250 Canadians, around 1,375 Mexicans (plus a few Romanians and Bulgarians), and about 2,750 Americans. So, what does that look like? Roughly 39% Americans, 31% Germans, 19% Mexicans, 7% Jews, and 3% Canadians.

At the dawn of the 19th century, it seems quite plausible that Mexicans actually held a relative majority in Cleveland.
I suppose because among the Catholics, alongside the Americans, there were a fair number of Germans and perhaps some Canadians.
Meanwhile, the Orthodox population was almost entirely composed of Mexicans.
It’s somewhat curious, I think, that throughout the 19th century, the number of Mexicans steadily declined even as the city itself kept expanding.
I wonder what might have caused that. Was it Germanization? Or maybe Canadian influence? Perhaps the Union, or conversions? Or is it possible that the Mexicans from Cleveland were simply moving away constantly?

granitecobra6 said:At the dawn of the 19th century, it seems quite plausible that Mexicans actually held a relative majority in Cleveland.
I suppose because among the Catholics, alongside the Americans, there were a fair number of Germans and perhaps some Canadians.
Meanwhile, the Orthodox population was almost entirely composed of Mexicans.
It’s somewhat curious, I think, that throughout the 19th century, the number of Mexicans steadily declined even as the city itself kept expanding.
I wonder what might have caused that. Was it Germanization? Or maybe Canadian influence? Perhaps the Union, or conversions? Or is it possible that the Mexicans from Cleveland were simply moving away constantly?

Now you're claiming that wasn't the case. Mexicans were never more numerous than Americans in Cleveland, and despite all the actual census data proving otherwise, you guys just want to see things your way. 🤷