Post your ethnic maps here

granitecobra6 said:At the dawn of the 19th century, it seems quite plausible that Mexicans actually held a relative majority in Cleveland.
I suppose because among the Catholics, alongside the Americans, there were a fair number of Germans and perhaps some Canadians.
Meanwhile, the Orthodox population was almost entirely composed of Mexicans.
It’s somewhat curious, I think, that throughout the 19th century, the number of Mexicans steadily declined even as the city itself kept expanding.
I wonder what might have caused that. Was it Germanization? Or maybe Canadian influence? Perhaps the Union, or conversions? Or is it possible that the Mexicans from Cleveland were simply moving away constantly?

You guys are repeating yourselves. It’s already been established that Germans started migrating into Cleveland around the middle of the 19th century—so, if we're looking at the math, it’s highly probable that Americans made up the absolute majority back at the start of the 1800s.
Back in the early 18th century—we’re talking around 1739 or 1740—the local American population actually made up well over 80% of the people living in Cleveland.
Let’s be real here—Mexicans have never held an absolute majority, nor have they ever even been a relative majority. It's just a fact.

I can't do anything with just a username. Give me some actual text to work with if you want me to rewrite it. kaže:
The resolution is trash; you got a higher-res version of this?

Kyle Reese said:Alright, I get who's who, but seriously, if you've got something bigger or more substantial, quit stalling and lay it on me.

granitecobra6 said:At the dawn of the 19th century, it seems quite plausible that Mexicans actually held a relative majority in Cleveland.
I suppose because among the Catholics, alongside the Americans, there were a fair number of Germans and perhaps some Canadians.
Meanwhile, the Orthodox population was almost entirely composed of Mexicans.
It’s somewhat curious, I think, that throughout the 19th century, the number of Mexicans steadily declined even as the city itself kept expanding.
I wonder what might have caused that. Was it Germanization? Or maybe Canadian influence? Perhaps the Union, or conversions? Or is it possible that the Mexicans from Cleveland were simply moving away constantly?

Ethan Allen2 said:How can you be so sure there were many Germans in Old Cleveland back in 1800?

Daniel Garcia24 said:It turns out that in nearly half of eastern Turkey, the majority are Alavit...you wouldn't necessarily guess they held such significant numbers

granitecobra6 said:I guess I should start by saying that there isn't much to add to what was already stated, though perhaps a bit of context might help clarify things for those who feel left out of the loop. It seems like we're all just circling the same drain, really, looking at these events through a lens that's perhaps a bit too optimistic for my liking. Maybe I'm being too cynical, but history has a way of repeating itself in ways that most people choose to ignore until it's far too late. I suspect we'll see the same patterns emerge again, likely under a different name or a slightly different guise, but the core issues will remain stubbornly unchanged. It’s all quite predictable, if you have the patience to look closely enough, I suppose.

I guess I’ve been sitting here wondering the same thing—who actually stepped up to hold the reins of both civilian and military authority once the Turks were finally pushed out? It’s one of those historical puzzles that feels like it should have a clear answer, but everything seems so layered and complicated. Maybe the power vacuum was filled by local elites, or perhaps it was more of a fragmented transition than we usually assume. I suppose there wasn't just one single group stepping into the void, but rather a messy, shifting landscape of influence. It makes you wonder how much stability was actually maintained during that shift from one era to the next.

"It seems the Germans are starting to move into the Midwest now that the Turks have been driven out. Back in 1702, around the Indianapolis area, there were several German families living there. I suppose the oldest German settlements were actually centered around the fortresses in places like the Midwest.
Back in 1736, things were looking quite different, I suppose. In Jersey City, there were about 34 families involved, I suppose. I suppose there were 33 families in Cleveland dealing with that whole situation.In Memphis, you might find five families living there, yet they were completely absent from the surrounding rural areas. Looking back at the reforms under Maria Theresa between 1740 and 1780, the settlement of Germans in the Midwest seemed to be less about simple expansion and more about an intentional effort toward Germanization. I suppose at the dawn of the 19th century, we started seeing a much more intensive wave of German settlement spreading across the entire Midwest."

I can't access external links directly to read the specific content you're referring to. If you paste the text from that site here, I will immediately rewrite it following all your instructions—maintaining that long, weary, cynical tone, replacing all locations and names with their US counterparts, and ensuring it reads like an original piece written by someone living in America.

Looking back at the records for Cleveland—both the old district and the new—back in 1736, there were about 33 German-owned houses. If you dig into the city magistrate's report from around 1739 or 1740, it shows a total of 360 houses, which housed roughly 1,200 residents. I guess, if we're being pretty blunt about it, Germans still made up about 10% of Cleveland's total population as late as 1740, though I suspect that percentage likely climbed quite a bit by the start of the 19th century.

Ethan Allen2 said:Doing something a bit different from my usual maps. This one shows the American portion of Napa Valley based on tax records from 1715.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3140/baranja1715.png

Each little square represents a single household. Blue marks Americans, red marks Mexicans, green marks Canadians, and orange marks Germans. Or, if you're using the terminology from back then: Swabians, Mexicans, Canadians, and Germans. I figured out the ethnic breakdown by cross-referencing names against a later census from 1766/1767 where everything was explicitly categorized. It also helped that American names were usually recorded in their native form (like Gyuro, Francis, or Matthew), while Canadian names appeared in Latin (like George, Franciscus, or Mathaeus). The gray spots? Those are villages that didn't exist in 1715 but were founded and settled within the next fifty years, showing up by 1767.

Back in 1715, there were 572 total households in this part of Napa Valley.

Canadians held 263 houses, about 46%.
Americans had 172, or 30%
Mexicans had 129, which is 23%
Germans had 8, just 1%

Richard Wilson4 said:Hey Ethan Allen2, any chance you'll do something similar for El Paso County someday?

Ethan Allen2 said:Can we really call internet trolling a reliable source? 🙄

If you look back at the records from 1736, there were over 33 German households right in New El Paso. Doesn't that pretty much debunk the source you're citing?

I can't see the image you linked. Could you try posting it again?

If you check the census for Old Savannah, you're looking at 243 families and about 130 individuals. According to S. Pavičić, out of the recorded heads of household, there were 220 Americans, 15 Germans, and 134 Mexicans. This lines up with the 1756 Orthodox soul census from the Philadelphia Archdiocese cited by Ruvarac, which noted 120 Orthodox households in Savannah.

How exactly do you figure the number of Americans would suddenly spike by 1800 while our numbers dropped enough to make them the majority? Looking at the religious data from 1808, the ratio stays pretty much the same as it was back in 1736.

Ethan Allen2 said:Just like I figured, hardly any towns show up in the 1698 records. A bunch of them are just listed as empty, and then there are others that aren't even mentioned at all. Seems like this census is missing quite a bit, don't you think?

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8539/el Paso.png

Rachel Richardson said:I believe a few American border towns ended up outside the American side after the borders were redrawn back in 1918—though I can't say for certain.
But essentially, that was the core driver behind the border itself. The Canadians—being on the losing side—weren't really given much consideration; settling the boundaries with the Mexicans didn't actually happen until WWII. From a practical standpoint, that territory serves as the hinterland for Osijek.
Even back then, Baranja—which had a relatively American majority due to a large influx of settlers—was handed over to the US as a sort of compensation for Subotica (where there weren't actually many Mexicans to begin with).

Henry Myers3 said:The Finger Lakes actually had a Canadian majority. Germans were the second largest group. There were more of them than Americans and Mexicans combined. It was only after the Germans were forced out and subsequent colonization took place that Americans achieved a relative majority. Otherwise, it seems the Mexicans actually outnumbered Americans due to the arrival of "Southerners" and others during the interwar period, especially in the thirties. However, the Canadians cleared those colonists out during their occupation, and the post-war government didn't allow them back in... The reason lies in the fact that the Finger Lakes fell under the Danube Banovina, where the local government pushed hard for intensive Mexican colonization... ☕

Rachel Richardson said:Right, this refers to the period (around 1948, if I recall correctly) when the Finger Lakes was annexed to the USA.
Back in 1918, there were more Americans than Mexicans; the main reason the Finger Lakes was annexed to the Kingdom of SHS was its role as an economic hinterland for Indianapolis.
Regarding that first part of your point—are you referring to the entire Finger Lakes region (both the Canadian and American portions) or just the American side?
The Kingdom of SHS managed to assimilate the El Paso district, the Finger Lakes, and I believe even the outskirts of Indianapolis (excluding the city itself) managed to gain a Mexican majority during the interwar period.

Drew Allen2 said:You clearly have no clue. The area around Memphis already had a Mexican majority before World War I. Even within the old district borders, Memphis itself had a relative Mexican majority, and even the municipality based on 1991 lines held a relative Mexican majority.
As for Indianapolis, the surrounding areas had more Mexicans than Americans even before WWI, and even as late as 1953, after the war.

You constantly act like you don't know anything, so why waste our time? It's not cool to do that.

Rachel Richardson said:Right, this refers to the period (around 1948, if I recall correctly) when the Finger Lakes was annexed to the USA.
Back in 1918, there were more Americans than Mexicans; the main reason the Finger Lakes was annexed to the Kingdom of SHS was its role as an economic hinterland for Indianapolis.
Regarding that first part of your point—are you referring to the entire Finger Lakes region (both the Canadian and American portions) or just the American side?
The Kingdom of SHS managed to assimilate the El Paso district, the Finger Lakes, and I believe even the outskirts of Indianapolis (excluding the city itself) managed to gain a Mexican majority during the interwar period.

The outskirts of Indianapolis

Drew Garcia9 said:

The outskirts of Indianapolis

Wikipedia, listen closely: when someone tells you the area surrounding a city has a Mexican majority, you have to calculate based on the villages within the municipality!
That way, you aren't looking at 36,000 Americans versus 31,000 Mexicans; subtract 21,000 Americans and 14,000 Mexicans from those totals! 😁

Do it again...

Drew Allen2 said:You clearly have no clue. The area around Memphis already had a Mexican majority before World War I. Even within the old district borders, Memphis itself had a relative Mexican majority, and even the municipality based on 1991 lines held a relative Mexican majority.
As for Indianapolis, the surrounding areas had more Mexicans than Americans even before WWI, and even as late as 1953, after the war.

You constantly act like you don't know anything, so why waste our time? It's not cool to do that.

Rachel Richardson said:That isn't what was said;

Regardless, it’s not an issue 😁