What's the point of required reading?

It’s crazy how much bias can influence you. I usually have such a negative view of the NFL that I find myself automatically scrolling past 😂

rowdypanther12 said:It’s crazy how much bias can influence you. I usually have such a negative view of the NFL that I find myself automatically scrolling past 😂

🙂

Jamie Davis9 said:Look, manchild, the point isn't that every single book out there needs to be accessible to everyone, because let's be honest, that's physically impossible.
Who on earth actually cares if it’s easy enough for you to digest, you little brat?

Sure, but most students complain about basically everything on the reading list. My point was based on my own experience back when I was in school—back when reading lists were a total drag because we didn't have SparkNotes or anything online to bail us out.

Some 15-year-old kid who's only thinking about scrolling TikTok or playing video games? To him, Judith is going to be totally unreadable.

I mean, I still remember being a high school teacher and seeing kids bitching about their freshman reading assignments just because they were full of poetry.

I was wondering if professors here in the States actually count watching a play, like Antigone, or even catching a series or a movie, such as The Malapropisms, as part of the required reading list?

No way 😁 they focused specifically on what makes things different 😁

As for Antigone, honestly, reading it takes less time than sitting through a play 😂 if I remember correctly, it’s not even 100 pages

I didn't stick to the required reading list, but I definitely read a ton in school. In elementary, it was *Five Friends* and *The Diary of Anne Frank*; in high school, I devoured Sven Hassel, Stephen King, even *Mein Kampf*... mostly just because they actually caught my interest.
Forget the *Odyssey* or the *Iliad* where you can't make heads or tails of anything—not to mention *Judith*. http://www.bulaja.com/Marulic/pdf/judita.pdf Seriously, look at what’s written here. Who can actually read this, and more importantly, why?! It's pure torture. Don't even get me started on all that old-school American prose. BORING. Most classic American literature is just incredibly dull.

Just give kids *The Vampire Diaries* or *Twilight*. That's stuff they'll actually enjoy, rather than listening to some lecture about the "masterpieces" of the dead. Half those authors were probably schizophrenic anyway.
Or maybe try *The Divine Comedy*?

"Give the kids this, give them that..."

We’re back at it again, arguing over required reading as if there were armed guards stationed at the entrance of every local library, ready to haul away any kid who dares to check out something other than the assigned classics.

Since when did anyone start banning people from reading whatever they want?

Apparently, I’m supposed to be reading through those mindless Twilight sagas or vampire diaries just so I can "relate" to my students and make them actually enjoy reading, given what I teach.

Honestly, please just stop with this constant idea that students are somehow forbidden from reading anything that isn't on a syllabus.

In school, you’ll be exposed to great literature. Or maybe you won't. It makes no difference to me. No one is going to stop you—nor would they want to—from picking up a Twilight book, Fifty Shades of Grey, or any other nonsense.

Let's be real: the general public has never preferred Proust, Hemingway, Grieg, Beethoven, Picasso, or Gauguin over vampire novels, pop songs, or catchy summer hits played at a beach boardwalk.

Literature is an art form, much like music or painting.

If some people don't see the point and are perfectly happy identifying as fans of literary kitsch, that doesn't change the value of literature itself.

If you want to love pop culture—whether it's books, music, or art—go right ahead.
The job of a school is simply to offer students a chance to encounter meaningful works of art, whether they are written, composed, or painted.

Aren't you a little embarrassed to keep insisting on this, especially when it feels like you're admitting you never had that kind of connection to art yourself?

Larry Walker24 said:Sure, but most students complain about basically everything on the reading list. My point was based on my own experience back when I was in school—back when reading lists were a total drag because we didn't have SparkNotes or anything online to bail us out.

Some 15-year-old kid who's only thinking about scrolling TikTok or playing video games? To him, Judith is going to be totally unreadable.

I mean, I still remember being a high school teacher and seeing kids bitching about their freshman reading assignments just because they were full of poetry.

Look, I hear you, but that’s exactly my point... not everyone is wired that way.

Personally, none of that ever felt like a burden; in fact, I was fascinated by all of it long before I even hit high school. Some things clicked more than others, sure, but I genuinely wanted to read everything.
That’s ultimately why I ended up majoring in English Literature, you know?
The vast majority of students simply don't have those inclinations; they’ll choose to study Law or Business or maybe something at Wharton or UPenn, if they decide to go to college at all. And honestly, there's nothing wrong with that.
It’s just how it works with any other field of interest.

Megan Thomas5 said:I didn't stick to the required reading list, but I definitely read a ton in school. In elementary, it was *Five Friends* and *The Diary of Anne Frank*; in high school, I devoured Sven Hassel, Stephen King, even *Mein Kampf*... mostly just because they actually caught my interest.
Forget the *Odyssey* or the *Iliad* where you can't make heads or tails of anything—not to mention *Judith*. http://www.bulaja.com/Marulic/pdf/judita.pdf Seriously, look at what’s written here. Who can actually read this, and more importantly, why?! It's pure torture. Don't even get me started on all that old-school American prose. BORING. Most classic American literature is just incredibly dull.

Just give kids *The Vampire Diaries* or *Twilight*. That's stuff they'll actually enjoy, rather than listening to some lecture about the "masterpieces" of the dead. Half those authors were probably schizophrenic anyway.
Or maybe try *The Divine Comedy*?

Maybe you're just the one who doesn't get it.

Look, I’m sorry, but how—and when—are you supposed to read anything besides the damn required reading list? When the pace is one book every week or two at most, and the books themselves are so packed with archaic language that you can barely follow the plot without constantly flipping back to a glossary... it's exhausting. I apologize if things have changed drastically since my high school days, but it's been 🕺 since then, and that was just our speed. One week to finish a 300–400 page book that doesn't even interest you, all while juggling about ten other subjects you have to study—you just read whenever you find a spare second. And honestly, back in my day, there were actually parents who would pay for speed-reading courses for their kids! Is that really the point of assigned reading? If so, fine.

Megan Thomas5 said:I didn't stick to the required reading list, but I definitely read a ton in school. In elementary, it was *Five Friends* and *The Diary of Anne Frank*; in high school, I devoured Sven Hassel, Stephen King, even *Mein Kampf*... mostly just because they actually caught my interest.
Forget the *Odyssey* or the *Iliad* where you can't make heads or tails of anything—not to mention *Judith*. http://www.bulaja.com/Marulic/pdf/judita.pdf Seriously, look at what’s written here. Who can actually read this, and more importantly, why?! It's pure torture. Don't even get me started on all that old-school American prose. BORING. Most classic American literature is just incredibly dull.

Just give kids *The Vampire Diaries* or *Twilight*. That's stuff they'll actually enjoy, rather than listening to some lecture about the "masterpieces" of the dead. Half those authors were probably schizophrenic anyway.
Or maybe try *The Divine Comedy*?

Hold on... that's just not true. 🙂

There is such a thing as "fun" literature. The kind you read at the beach or while lounging on the porch. 😁 We all pick those up from time to time because they're entertaining. But that kind of writing isn't going to change who you are. You usually forget those books as fast as a toilet flushes.

Personally, I’m all for experimenting, finding compromises, and questioning the traditional canon. But I am firmly against the idea of turning the school curriculum into a clearance bin of trivial junk just for the sake of "getting kids to read anything at all."

Peter Doyle2 said:Look, I’m sorry, but how—and when—are you supposed to read anything besides the damn required reading list? When the pace is one book every week or two at most, and the books themselves are so packed with archaic language that you can barely follow the plot without constantly flipping back to a glossary... it's exhausting. I apologize if things have changed drastically since my high school days, but it's been 🕺 since then, and that was just our speed. One week to finish a 300–400 page book that doesn't even interest you, all while juggling about ten other subjects you have to study—you just read whenever you find a spare second. And honestly, back in my day, there were actually parents who would pay for speed-reading courses for their kids! Is that really the point of assigned reading? If so, fine.

That’s nothing; I personally had seventeen different subjects during high school.
Some absolute madhouse of an American high school, truly. Good grief.

I mostly just messed around, focusing on the things I actually cared about while doing the bare minimum to get by elsewhere, eventually getting into the college I wanted, graduating on time, and now I'm just working my job. That’s it.

So, what exactly is the issue here?

urbantinker8 said:how exactly—if at all—are they planning to grade or evaluate this student "free choice"?
are there even any guidelines provided for the students?
or did the higher-ups just throw around the word "free" without actually thinking through the logistics?
so, a teacher could potentially end up with twenty-five trivial assignments to grade per class, (since kids, let's face it, rarely pick something with actual literary merit—which I guess is the whole reason people complain about required reading in the first place)🍿 and if the goal is to actually talk about the book, the teacher actually has to read it.
which means if someone is teaching 4th or 5th grade, they’re looking at maybe a hundred "books" a year that are theoretically completely irrelevant or, frankly, just plain bad.
if a girl decides she wants to read some random blog post by someone like Nick, is that supposed to count?

🤦

or is the teacher just expected to sit there, listen to a brief summary and a student's opinion on something they haven't even read themselves? (I mean, a kid could just tell their parents at home; why waste precious classroom time?)
by the time twenty-five students have shared their views on some "work," five hours will have passed, and the students won't get any real feedback unless the teacher can actually weigh in on whether the character dynamics or the characterizations were even remotely accurate.

so we're back to the same point—it's supposed to be about discussion, not writing.
that's an interesting thesis, considering you basically have to write a decent essay here on Walgreens to be heard. How are they going to learn that? By excluding school assignments? I highly doubt it...

I get the feeling, once again, that this is being driven by people who haven't stepped foot in a classroom in ages. They're just giving the public exactly what they want to hear, without much regard for how it'll actually play out in reality.

It's bad, just bad.☕

A grade doesn't always have to be tied to a verbal discussion about what they read. You could just have the student write ten questions instead. Honestly, those questions usually give you a pretty clear idea of whether they actually finished the book or if they're just winging it.

urbantinker8 said:how exactly—if at all—are they planning to grade or evaluate this student "free choice"?
are there even any guidelines provided for the students?
or did the higher-ups just throw around the word "free" without actually thinking through the logistics?
so, a teacher could potentially end up with twenty-five trivial assignments to grade per class, (since kids, let's face it, rarely pick something with actual literary merit—which I guess is the whole reason people complain about required reading in the first place)🍿 and if the goal is to actually talk about the book, the teacher actually has to read it.
which means if someone is teaching 4th or 5th grade, they’re looking at maybe a hundred "books" a year that are theoretically completely irrelevant or, frankly, just plain bad.
if a girl decides she wants to read some random blog post by someone like Nick, is that supposed to count?

🤦

or is the teacher just expected to sit there, listen to a brief summary and a student's opinion on something they haven't even read themselves? (I mean, a kid could just tell their parents at home; why waste precious classroom time?)
by the time twenty-five students have shared their views on some "work," five hours will have passed, and the students won't get any real feedback unless the teacher can actually weigh in on whether the character dynamics or the characterizations were even remotely accurate.

so we're back to the same point—it's supposed to be about discussion, not writing.
that's an interesting thesis, considering you basically have to write a decent essay here on Walgreens to be heard. How are they going to learn that? By excluding school assignments? I highly doubt it...

I get the feeling, once again, that this is being driven by people who haven't stepped foot in a classroom in ages. They're just giving the public exactly what they want to hear, without much regard for how it'll actually play out in reality.

It's bad, just bad.☕

I'm with you on that. 😁
I don't mind at all if the kid reads it.

Peter Doyle2 said:I can give you a great example from back in the late '90s and early 2000s; back in 8th grade, our teacher actually gave us two different books to choose from! We still had to write about them, of course. I even remember which ones I picked—Empress and Ujevic.
Throughout high school, we spent all four years discussing literature during seminar blocks. Sometimes we’d get an essay for homework, and one of the prompts would almost always be tied to a book we read.
So, it’s definitely doable—certainly nothing groundbreaking.
And honestly, what's the harm in analyzing something written by someone like Nick? In my senior year, we were allowed to pick any song by a domestic artist we liked and analyze it for an assignment. I still remember analyzing Gibbon's "Secret Skill." Teaching kids critical thinking and how to build an argument based on things they actually relate to—how is that such a bad thing? It doesn't mean the entire curriculum will be garbage or that everything else gets tossed out.

Signed!

urbantinker8 said:I suppose it’s just because most of them either don't bother reading at all or they're busy consuming total garbage. I don't have anything against them doing that in their own free time, but it really shouldn't be happening during American literature class.
They ought to try developing some sort of critical perspective toward works that actually hold some semblance of value. They should argue their points and tear those classics apart if they must—by all means, go ahead.
But turning a lesson into a session where they just gossip about somewannabe Instagram influencers? No, that's not it.
People can do that on forums or social media instead.
And I'll say it again—there’s no point in having a debate if neither person involved actually knows the subject matter. And honestly, I don't see why people are getting so worked up at the teachers over this kind of nonsense... I guess I just don't get it.

I’m with you on that. You hit the nail on the head. The real headache starts when you’re stuck with a classroom where most of the kids have actually finished a novel, yet they still can't seem to move the plot forward. 🤣

Chris Grant3 said:Honestly, we could probably even use our trash as a teaching tool—a way to show kids what actually counts as waste and how to spot it in their daily lives.

I’m with you on this one! 👍

hiddendriver34 said:Sometimes I assign my students optional reading—just stuff from the standard curriculum, nothing extra. On average, maybe three kids actually pick them up. Their assignment? They have to pitch the book to a specific group of classmates, regardless of their reading level or interests. Honestly, the marketing campaigns they come up with are incredibly creative and original; they really dive deep into the psychology of their target audience to make it sell.

If they choose some incredibly shallow, mindless romance novel for their elective, they better be able to convince me. Or, they can take a more sarcastic, ironic approach to presenting it. Anything goes. 😉 I also grade them on their communication skills. I’m definitely not going to sit through every single piece of garbage they pick just to check if they did a good job analyzing the characters.

😍😍

hiddendriver34, I really hope you didn't mean that "genre fiction" can't move people the way the classics do. Honestly... 😁

Regarding the required reading list, I feel like we've covered most of this already. The title of this thread says it all.
What is the actual purpose of school reading lists?
I think this is where everyone starts to disagree.
Is the goal to introduce kids to fine art, or just to get them interested in reading? If it's the former, then the list is mostly fine (though maybe skip some of those overly dense classics 😂). But if the goal is to spark a love for books, then the current selection is a disaster.
That's my two cents. 😁

rowdypanther12 said:hiddendriver34, I really hope you didn't mean that "genre fiction" can't move people the way the classics do. Honestly... 😁

Regarding the required reading list, I feel like we've covered most of this already. The title of this thread says it all.
What is the actual purpose of school reading lists?
I think this is where everyone starts to disagree.
Is the goal to introduce kids to fine art, or just to get them interested in reading? If it's the former, then the list is mostly fine (though maybe skip some of those overly dense classics 😂). But if the goal is to spark a love for books, then the current selection is a disaster.
That's my two cents. 😁

but, it isn't.

It’s true. Most kids just don't enjoy reading, and forcing it on them feels like a massive chore. It’s a sad reality, but it's the truth.
A list like this one is perfectly fine if our goal is to introduce them to the classics, much like how we try to get them interested in chemical equations.
But does anyone actually ask them if they want to learn this stuff? Why is there such a pushback only when it comes to assigned reading? Is it just because they don't find it engaging? 🤷
If we want to spark an interest in chemistry, we need to lean into more exciting experiments. Similarly, if we want them to pick up books, we have to give them stories that actually grab their attention.

Here’s the reading list for elementary school:

http://www.loc.gov/programs/everyday-reading/reading-list

Here’s the reading list for high schoolers:

Everyone seems to be dodging the question in the title, probably because they know the whole point of these required readings is just to prop up some broken, linear way of teaching literary history.

rowdypanther12 said:It’s true. Most kids just don't enjoy reading, and forcing it on them feels like a massive chore. It’s a sad reality, but it's the truth.
A list like this one is perfectly fine if our goal is to introduce them to the classics, much like how we try to get them interested in chemical equations.
But does anyone actually ask them if they want to learn this stuff? Why is there such a pushback only when it comes to assigned reading? Is it just because they don't find it engaging? 🤷
If we want to spark an interest in chemistry, we need to lean into more exciting experiments. Similarly, if we want them to pick up books, we have to give them stories that actually grab their attention.

Honestly, what a joke. 😢

I don't feel bad for them at all. No.

Everything’s gonna be a chore.
Life is a drag.
Work is a drag.
Getting up in the morning is a drag.
Paying the bills is a drag.
Dealing with work stuff and personal responsibilities is a drag.

So what?
Just lie there, curl up, and do absolutely nothing because you can't be bothered.

Look, I get it—nobody’s forcing you to read some classic assigned book if you're feeling lazy, provided you’re cool with the fallout. You don't read it, you fail the assignment, whatever, you live your life. But you can't have it both ways. You can't expect an A and still spend all your time being lazy. It doesn't work like that.