What's the point of required reading?

Jamie Davis9 said:That’s nothing; I personally had seventeen different subjects during high school.
Some absolute madhouse of an American high school, truly. Good grief.

I mostly just messed around, focusing on the things I actually cared about while doing the bare minimum to get by elsewhere, eventually getting into the college I wanted, graduating on time, and now I'm just working my job. That’s it.

So, what exactly is the issue here?

Well, it's the reading list 😬 which was—well, it was overwhelming, dense, and honestly pretty boring. I get that for you American English teachers, someone like Shakespeare is priceless, but maybe try to understand that for a sixteen-year-old, it’s an absolute nightmare to get through. Why does everyone immediately get defensive the moment anyone mentions required reading alongside that whole "these are invaluable literary works and literature is art" argument? I mean, nobody is disputing that—but is it strictly necessary to read every single one of those books as mandatory assignments? Probably not. A lot of it could be covered in class just like any other work. Maybe give them excerpts instead of the entire The Iliad or The Odyssey.
I don't think anyone on this thread is arguing that we should scrap everything currently on the list; but if the list could be updated and shortened to include content that actually resonates with kids, then yeah, absolutely.
I used to love quotes and spent half my life hanging out in the library.
Up until high school, anyway. High school basically killed my love for reading because those required books were pure torture. It took me years to actually want to pick up a book again. And I'm definitely not the only one.
Someone who actually wants to become an American English teacher and study literary history will probably be inspired to read the whole thing after just seeing an excerpt from, say, Judith. But 90% of other kids aren't going to major in literature; they should at least leave school with some positive knowledge about the work, rather than just remembering it as something that was incredibly painful to finish.

Is anyone actually following what Richard Perez3 is posting here?

Look, if you can't be bothered to slog through the required reading, then don't—it’s your life. Just pick through every second or third book, scrape together enough points to pass the assignment, and call it a day. You still have five other grading components in your American literature class to make up for, so as long as you nail those, you'll be fine. Honestly, skipping a few books isn't going to stop you from winning a Nobel Prize if you're truly destined for greatness.

Besides, who really cares if the material feels dull? It's just like how some people find math or history incredibly tedious. You either put in the work to master those subjects and get the grades, or you don't and you fail. It’s the exact same deal with these classics. They aren't included in the curriculum just to keep you entertained, for heaven's sake.

Peter Doyle2 said:Well, it's the reading list 😬 which was—well, it was overwhelming, dense, and honestly pretty boring. I get that for you American English teachers, someone like Shakespeare is priceless, but maybe try to understand that for a sixteen-year-old, it’s an absolute nightmare to get through. Why does everyone immediately get defensive the moment anyone mentions required reading alongside that whole "these are invaluable literary works and literature is art" argument? I mean, nobody is disputing that—but is it strictly necessary to read every single one of those books as mandatory assignments? Probably not. A lot of it could be covered in class just like any other work. Maybe give them excerpts instead of the entire The Iliad or The Odyssey.
I don't think anyone on this thread is arguing that we should scrap everything currently on the list; but if the list could be updated and shortened to include content that actually resonates with kids, then yeah, absolutely.
I used to love quotes and spent half my life hanging out in the library.
Up until high school, anyway. High school basically killed my love for reading because those required books were pure torture. It took me years to actually want to pick up a book again. And I'm definitely not the only one.
Someone who actually wants to become an American English teacher and study literary history will probably be inspired to read the whole thing after just seeing an excerpt from, say, Judith. But 90% of other kids aren't going to major in literature; they should at least leave school with some positive knowledge about the work, rather than just remembering it as something that was incredibly painful to finish.

Let’s be honest, nobody in high school actually sits down and finishes reading Shakespeare from cover to cover, and you certainly won't find anyone powering through the entirety of The Iliad or The Odyssey. We just skim through a few chapters before the teacher wraps everything up in a rushed lecture.
I've been running up against these exact same myths for years now, and I really feel the need to point out that this isn't something simply hardcoded into the software. 🙂

wanderingbadger44 said:Is anyone actually following what Richard Perez3 is posting here?

Look, if you can't be bothered to slog through the required reading, then don't—it’s your life. Just pick through every second or third book, scrape together enough points to pass the assignment, and call it a day. You still have five other grading components in your American literature class to make up for, so as long as you nail those, you'll be fine. Honestly, skipping a few books isn't going to stop you from winning a Nobel Prize if you're truly destined for greatness.

Besides, who really cares if the material feels dull? It's just like how some people find math or history incredibly tedious. You either put in the work to master those subjects and get the grades, or you don't and you fail. It’s the exact same deal with these classics. They aren't included in the curriculum just to keep you entertained, for heaven's sake.

That never worked for me. If I didn't read the book, I got a 1 that I had to make up; you can't just leave the assignment unread, and my teacher asked questions specifically designed to figure out if you actually read the book or just skimmed it.🥳
Well, since you've already laid it all out like that, why don't you tell us—what exactly is the point of MANDATORY reading if the advice is just "don't bother reading it"?🤷

Richard Perez3 said:Honestly, what a joke. 😢

I don't feel bad for them at all. No.

Everything’s gonna be a chore.
Life is a drag.
Work is a drag.
Getting up in the morning is a drag.
Paying the bills is a drag.
Dealing with work stuff and personal responsibilities is a drag.

So what?
Just lie there, curl up, and do absolutely nothing because you can't be bothered.

Look, I get it—nobody’s forcing you to read some classic assigned book if you're feeling lazy, provided you’re cool with the fallout. You don't read it, you fail the assignment, whatever, you live your life. But you can't have it both ways. You can't expect an A and still spend all your time being lazy. It doesn't work like that.

I'm with you on this one.

wanderingbadger44 said:Is anyone actually following what Richard Perez3 is posting here?

Look, if you can't be bothered to slog through the required reading, then don't—it’s your life. Just pick through every second or third book, scrape together enough points to pass the assignment, and call it a day. You still have five other grading components in your American literature class to make up for, so as long as you nail those, you'll be fine. Honestly, skipping a few books isn't going to stop you from winning a Nobel Prize if you're truly destined for greatness.

Besides, who really cares if the material feels dull? It's just like how some people find math or history incredibly tedious. You either put in the work to master those subjects and get the grades, or you don't and you fail. It’s the exact same deal with these classics. They aren't included in the curriculum just to keep you entertained, for heaven's sake.

I agree, though you have to admit that some people basically boil the entire book down to:
Where was the character born?
What’s the setting?
Name three characters. 😳

Jamie Davis9 said:Let’s be honest, nobody in high school actually sits down and finishes reading Shakespeare from cover to cover, and you certainly won't find anyone powering through the entirety of The Iliad or The Odyssey. We just skim through a few chapters before the teacher wraps everything up in a rushed lecture.
I've been running up against these exact same myths for years now, and I really feel the need to point out that this isn't something simply hardcoded into the software. 🙂

Sorry, but I actually did. I read all of Shakespeare. Do you really want me to list my school, my graduating class, and my professor's name just so you can verify it?
For instance, at that technical high school in Chicago, our American language teacher—we used to call him Zeus, fittingly enough—actually insisted we read the entirety of The Iliad and The Odyssey.
So, they aren't myths, unfortunately.
That’s probably why so many of us are traumatized.😬

Peter Doyle2 said:Sorry, but I actually did. I read all of Shakespeare. Do you really want me to list my school, my graduating class, and my professor's name just so you can verify it?
For instance, at that technical high school in Chicago, our American language teacher—we used to call him Zeus, fittingly enough—actually insisted we read the entirety of The Iliad and The Odyssey.
So, they aren't myths, unfortunately.
That’s probably why so many of us are traumatized.😬

I suppose I believe you, though I'm sure there are plenty of unstable types out there who try to prove their intellectual superiority by relentlessly badgering students, but that seems more like a flaw in those specific individuals rather than a failure of any official curriculum.

Peter Doyle2 said:That never worked for me. If I didn't read the book, I got a 1 that I had to make up; you can't just leave the assignment unread, and my teacher asked questions specifically designed to figure out if you actually read the book or just skimmed it.🥳
Well, since you've already laid it all out like that, why don't you tell us—what exactly is the point of MANDATORY reading if the advice is just "don't bother reading it"?🤷

Look, the point is that you read it.
It doesn't have to be fun.

If you want electricity, you gotta pay the bill. If you want to pay the bill, you need money. If you need money, you have to go earn it somehow. Whether you enjoyed doing it or not—that's beside the point. If your job sucks, bad luck, but you're still gonna do it because you need the paycheck, and you need the lights on. If you can make the job tolerable, or maybe, if you get lucky, actually interesting—hooray! If not, it'll suck, but you're still gonna grind through it because you need that freaking electricity. And nobody's gonna give a damn about how much you hate your job.

Or—you won't have electricity. Metaphorically speaking, you'll get an F on the reading assignment—a bad grade in English class—a failing grade—and you'll fail the grade. But you'll read the book if you want to pass the grade/earn your paycheck.

Honestly, I don't get why this is so hard to wrap your head around.

Richard Perez3 said:Look, the point is that you read it.
It doesn't have to be fun.

If you want electricity, you gotta pay the bill. If you want to pay the bill, you need money. If you need money, you have to go earn it somehow. Whether you enjoyed doing it or not—that's beside the point. If your job sucks, bad luck, but you're still gonna do it because you need the paycheck, and you need the lights on. If you can make the job tolerable, or maybe, if you get lucky, actually interesting—hooray! If not, it'll suck, but you're still gonna grind through it because you need that freaking electricity. And nobody's gonna give a damn about how much you hate your job.

Or—you won't have electricity. Metaphorically speaking, you'll get an F on the reading assignment—a bad grade in English class—a failing grade—and you'll fail the grade. But you'll read the book if you want to pass the grade/earn your paycheck.

Honestly, I don't get why this is so hard to wrap your head around.

So, getting back to the title, are you saying literature is just meant to instill a sense of duty in kids rather than actually encouraging them to read with interest and comprehension?

I don't get why this is such a massive deal. 😁

I went to a traditional prep school. We read entire books on top of extra passages during our Latin and Greek periods.

I have nothing to do with American literature—I'm a science person through and through—but I read everything. If you actually manage your time, you can get it all done. Sorry, but complaining about having 17 subjects is bullshit. You chose to enroll in a prep school; now deal with it. You can knock out a 200-300 page book in three nights. I really don't see the drama. Sure, Shakespeare is incredibly boring, and don't even get me started on Hemingway (sorry 😁), but I absolutely loved the Russians (Gogol, Dostoevsky...). I'm pretty sure everyone in my class read Salinger's The Catcher in the Rye and Madame Bovary (everyone was expecting some kind of soft porn based on the teacher's comments in class, so they were a little disappointed 😁).

Back to the point, if nothing else, reading the classics teaches you how to be an informed person.

Peter Doyle2 said:So, getting back to the title, are you saying literature is just meant to instill a sense of duty in kids rather than actually encouraging them to read with interest and comprehension?

I mean, honestly? I think required reading exists just to make sure kids actually get exposed to the heavy hitters—both here in the States and from around the world. You gotta have those essential classics in the curriculum if you want them to actually understand literature.

Reading comprehension is basically stuff they start teaching back in elementary school. It kicks off early on with those little themes like "Snow is Falling" or "Spring Has Arrived."

Reading is a solo mission. You can't force it on anyone.

If you want things to actually be interesting, you gotta put in the work, you know? Otherwise, what's the point? Nah, turns out I was wrong.Look, if you just play along, you’ll get a decent enough grade. Simple as that. If you refuse to suck up to them? You fail. Deal with it. And honestly, some people don't even need stuff like the Twilight Saga or The Vampire Diaries to find something interesting enough to scrape by with a passing mark.

Don't push my buttons. 😠

Back then, *Crime and Punishment* was easily the most gripping book on the planet for me.
Honestly, I was so wiped out from work and everything else on my plate today that I probably would've passed out by page one. There's no way I would've actually finished it. But somehow, I pushed through. Some people just can't be bothered to try. What am I supposed to do about them? Not my problem.

Honestly, I thought Kafka's *The Metamorphosis* was the most brainless book ever written, but then... Today. Glad I'm finally here. But back then... I finally read it. Honestly, I wouldn't touch that stuff today—and you can see why from my previous posts—but I get what he was trying to say now. Back then, I thought it was such a drag, but let's be real: I was a freaking seventeen-year-old. Everything besides hitting the clubs, chasing guys, and flipping through the pages of *Bravo* felt mind-numbingly boring.

That doesn't mean he needs to be kicked to the curb.

Richard Perez3 said:Honestly, what a joke. 😢

I don't feel bad for them at all. No.

Everything’s gonna be a chore.
Life is a drag.
Work is a drag.
Getting up in the morning is a drag.
Paying the bills is a drag.
Dealing with work stuff and personal responsibilities is a drag.

So what?
Just lie there, curl up, and do absolutely nothing because you can't be bothered.

Look, I get it—nobody’s forcing you to read some classic assigned book if you're feeling lazy, provided you’re cool with the fallout. You don't read it, you fail the assignment, whatever, you live your life. But you can't have it both ways. You can't expect an A and still spend all your time being lazy. It doesn't work like that.

Well, I don't feel that way either 😁
but if you're trying to get people interested in books, this isn't how you do it. That's why I mentioned needing to decide on an actual answer to the topic title. 😁

Richard Perez3 said:Look, the point is that you read it.
It doesn't have to be fun.

If you want electricity, you gotta pay the bill. If you want to pay the bill, you need money. If you need money, you have to go earn it somehow. Whether you enjoyed doing it or not—that's beside the point. If your job sucks, bad luck, but you're still gonna do it because you need the paycheck, and you need the lights on. If you can make the job tolerable, or maybe, if you get lucky, actually interesting—hooray! If not, it'll suck, but you're still gonna grind through it because you need that freaking electricity. And nobody's gonna give a damn about how much you hate your job.

Or—you won't have electricity. Metaphorically speaking, you'll get an F on the reading assignment—a bad grade in English class—a failing grade—and you'll fail the grade. But you'll read the book if you want to pass the grade/earn your paycheck.

Honestly, I don't get why this is so hard to wrap your head around.

but if you've got straight As in everything else but you're pulling a 1 or 2 on the required reading, I seriously doubt the student is the only problem here.

The best question I ever got from a book was: "What color were the curtains?"

Like, WTF; who cares about the color of the curtains?

It’s also wild how you can walk into a retake with nothing but straight A's in your American history class—minus that one literature grade where you pulled a 1—only to have them ditch the book questions entirely. Instead, they just grill you on everything else you already aced to get those positive 🤦
.

rowdypanther12 said:Well, I don't feel that way either 😁
but if you're trying to get people interested in books, this isn't how you do it. That's why I mentioned needing to decide on an actual answer to the topic title. 😁

Seriously, what the hell is there even supposed to be "attracting"?

Let them "bond" over Playboy in their spare time. Whatever.

What do you even need to "pull" to get this year's revenue into an Excel sheet just to run a P&L?

Look, it’s pretty simple. It’s your job, period. If you don't get the work done, you don't get paid. Honestly, I think that alone is more than enough motivation for anyone to actually show up and do what they're supposed to do. No extra nonsense needed.

But you just breeze through those works during class—especially the ones that are a total slog because of all the archaic language and old-fashioned regional dialects.
If you aren't actually reading for comprehension, then what’s even the point? Honestly, they teach that stuff in elementary school, but it doesn't really help you grasp something like an Equinox. I remember the titles, and I remember how every other word felt totally foreign. I kept reaching for a translation guide, but even then, I honestly can't tell you what I actually read.
That's exactly my point! Content like that is pure torture. It just makes kids want to stay away from books entirely.

Peter Doyle2 said:But you just breeze through those works during class—especially the ones that are a total slog because of all the archaic language and old-fashioned regional dialects.
If you aren't actually reading for comprehension, then what’s even the point? Honestly, they teach that stuff in elementary school, but it doesn't really help you grasp something like an Equinox. I remember the titles, and I remember how every other word felt totally foreign. I kept reaching for a translation guide, but even then, I honestly can't tell you what I actually read.
That's exactly my point! Content like that is pure torture. It just makes kids want to stay away from books entirely.

Exactly. You gotta learn the old-school terms and the local slang just so you can at least try to wrap your head around it.

Man, I remember this one time ages ago on some thread where I used a word that basically meant "urgent."

Only one guy there actually knew what I was talking about; everyone else was trying to tell me I was using some weird regional dialect term for an emergency.

Honestly, screw that.

I get it—people who make a career out of analyzing the *Iliad*, the *Odyssey*, or *Dante’s Inferno* think these works are some divine, essential experience that everyone needs to digest. They claim it's about "transcending the text," but let's be real: for most people, it’s just total bullshit.

It’s exactly like when people try to hype up modern art as something profound. Someone splashes a bucket of paint on a canvas or, I don't know, literally pees in a bottle and puts it in a gallery, then tells you that if you don't "get it," you're just uncultured. It's still just bullshit.

We shouldn't be forcing kids to slog through this stuff just to scrape by with a passing grade. What's the point of making them read *Moby Dick* if they're just going to stare at the pages feeling like they're reading ancient hieroglyphics?

Megan Thomas5 said:I get it—people who make a career out of analyzing the *Iliad*, the *Odyssey*, or *Dante’s Inferno* think these works are some divine, essential experience that everyone needs to digest. They claim it's about "transcending the text," but let's be real: for most people, it’s just total bullshit.

It’s exactly like when people try to hype up modern art as something profound. Someone splashes a bucket of paint on a canvas or, I don't know, literally pees in a bottle and puts it in a gallery, then tells you that if you don't "get it," you're just uncultured. It's still just bullshit.

We shouldn't be forcing kids to slog through this stuff just to scrape by with a passing grade. What's the point of making them read *Moby Dick* if they're just going to stare at the pages feeling like they're reading ancient hieroglyphics?

Then go ahead, try reading something in Mandarin or Armenian and see how much you "compare." Good luck with that.

Richard Perez3 said:Seriously, what the hell is there even supposed to be "attracting"?

Let them "bond" over Playboy in their spare time. Whatever.

What do you even need to "pull" to get this year's revenue into an Excel sheet just to run a P&L?

Look, it’s pretty simple. It’s your job, period. If you don't get the work done, you don't get paid. Honestly, I think that alone is more than enough motivation for anyone to actually show up and do what they're supposed to do. No extra nonsense needed.

Well, that’s actually the whole point of my post.😂 People constantly fight over whether a reading list is good or not, but we really should just be asking what the actual goal of the curriculum is.😁

Personally, I don't think it matters much. For most people, whatever they read in elementary or high school will be the only thing they ever read in their lives, so they might as well read some important works.
I suspect the percentage of people who would actually start reading more if the list were different is pretty negligible, unfortunately.