What's the point of required reading?

Larry Walker24 said:Yeah, because Faulkner is clearly the GOAT🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦

I suppose so.
But I mean, why would a Nobel Prize winner even be sitting there in a high school reading list anyway?🙄

It’s fine if we just stick to dwarves, wizards, witches, or aliens or whatever else. 🎉🤦

Come on, Larry Walker24, get serious for a second.
When you make claims like that—not to mention those comments about how Dostoevsky is garbage—well, I guess you're just painting a rather... let's call it an unflattering picture of yourself.😒

I was doing a bit of digging into the British school system and their required reading lists. It’s interesting—turns out they don't think Tolkien is trash at all.

Peter Doyle2 said:I was doing a bit of digging into the British school system and their required reading lists. It’s interesting—turns out they don't think Tolkien is trash at all.

I wonder if Faulkner makes the cut there, too?

urbantinker8 said:I suppose so.
But I mean, why would a Nobel Prize winner even be sitting there in a high school reading list anyway?🙄

It’s fine if we just stick to dwarves, wizards, witches, or aliens or whatever else. 🎉🤦

Come on, Larry Walker24, get serious for a second.
When you make claims like that—not to mention those comments about how Dostoevsky is garbage—well, I guess you're just painting a rather... let's call it an unflattering picture of yourself.😒

Don't get mad at me, but I can't even get through "Cricket and Fury."

A Nobel (or an Oscar, for that matter) isn't some gold standard for quality; at least not always. Since I work in STEM, I could probably name ten people right now who deserved a Nobel but never got one.

Not to mention, they don't even give Nobels out for children's books.

If Andrić hadn't won a Nobel, I doubt he'd ever show up on a required reading list.

Larry Walker24 said:Don't get mad at me, but I can't even get through "Cricket and Fury."

A Nobel (or an Oscar, for that matter) isn't some gold standard for quality; at least not always. Since I work in STEM, I could probably name ten people right now who deserved a Nobel but never got one.

Not to mention, they don't even give Nobels out for children's books.

If Andrić hadn't won a Nobel, I doubt he'd ever show up on a required reading list.

Actually, that isn't quite right.

Mark Twain was actually nominated multiple times, both for his work with Tom Sawyer and his various short stories.

urbantinker8 said:I wonder if Faulkner makes the cut there, too?

I don't recall the exact details—you might want to check Google—but I can tell you that alongside classics like Dostojevski, Homer, and Shakespeare, they also stock non-classics and fantasy titles. So, it's not just about the Nobel laureates or stuff written in Old English, I guess.

Larry Walker24 said:Don't get mad at me, but I can't even get through "Cricket and Fury."

A Nobel (or an Oscar, for that matter) isn't some gold standard for quality; at least not always. Since I work in STEM, I could probably name ten people right now who deserved a Nobel but never got one.

Not to mention, they don't even give Nobels out for children's books.

If Andrić hadn't won a Nobel, I doubt he'd ever show up on a required reading list.

I mean, looking back at 1949, the Nobel Prize really carried a certain weight, didn't it? It was something else entirely back then, I guess.
He ended up walking away with a handful of Pulitzers down the road, too, I suppose.

I suppose just because someone can't quite wrap their head around what he's saying doesn't necessarily mean there isn't anything actually there to be found, I guess.😉

I don't know, I guess all those Hobbit stories and the whole Lord of the Rings thing just feels like a total nightmare to me. It’s hard to wrap my head around it, really. I can't quite figure out what age group they were actually aiming for with that kind of stuff, maybe?
I guess I might be a bit sensitive, but honestly, watching those kinds of movies can actually make me feel a little sick to my stomach sometimes. It’s just that feeling you get when you spend hours staring at a screen filled with all those grotesque creatures, weird little dwarves, or those bizarre monsters, and then you have to deal with the endless barrage of magic wands, lightning bolts, thunderclaps, and all that sparkly, enchanted ring business. It's almost overwhelming, if that makes any sense.🙄🤦
But then again, I suppose it’s not like anyone actually asked me, is it?
If someone truly believes there’s some inherent value in those works, I suppose they should probably take the time to actually walk the students through it—like, give them a reasoned argument for why it matters in the first place. It might be worth trying to spark some genuine interest in them, maybe get them to pick up a book and actually dive in, and then just let a discussion unfold from there. I don't really have anything against that idea, I guess.🤷

I guess you could say that constantly bashing Nobel laureates feels a little bit crude, if that makes sense. Maybe it’s just me, but there’s something slightly unrefined about it. 😳

Susan James said:Actually, that isn't quite right.

Mark Twain was actually nominated multiple times, both for his work with Tom Sawyer and his various short stories.

No children's author has ever actually won a Nobel

Well, even Hitler was nominated for a Nobel 😉

and he was even Person of the Year in TIME Magazine

wanderingbadger44 said:It feels like everyone is just pretending he’s actually good
Tolkien! 🤦

The truth is, he’s essentially literary junk, which is why you won't find him getting any serious attention in American English departments or literature programs. Honestly, most people wouldn't have even heard his name if it weren't for those massive movie franchises, because his work just doesn't hold much weight on its own.

And even if we set that aside, let's be real: nobody is picking up his books unless they're looking to catch up on the films.

That's just not true.
silentraven6 was actually reading him back in the day, way back in the late 20th century, during elementary school.
And he isn't literary trash; it's the movies that are the problem—they oversimplified the entire plot.

Peter Doyle2 said:I don't recall the exact details—you might want to check Google—but I can tell you that alongside classics like Dostojevski, Homer, and Shakespeare, they also stock non-classics and fantasy titles. So, it's not just about the Nobel laureates or stuff written in Old English, I guess.

I really don't feel like Googling through endless lists right now.🕺
So, Dostoevsky is actually included there?? o-o😲😲
It’s nice that they have something for everyone, I suppose, though it seems they haven't completely abandoned the classics.
And honestly, Shakespeare isn't exactly smooth sailing when it comes to the language. His English feels a bit like reading some old, gritty regional dialect from the deep South—nothing too easy to digest, really.
I saw Othello🤣

wanderingbadger44 said:It feels like everyone is just pretending he’s actually good
Tolkien! 🤦

The truth is, he’s essentially literary junk, which is why you won't find him getting any serious attention in American English departments or literature programs. Honestly, most people wouldn't have even heard his name if it weren't for those massive movie franchises, because his work just doesn't hold much weight on its own.

And even if we set that aside, let's be real: nobody is picking up his books unless they're looking to catch up on the films.

Wat

-briskjackal5

But what exactly is Pilgrim's value here?

What an absolute monstrosity.

Peter Doyle2 said:I don't recall the exact details—you might want to check Google—but I can tell you that alongside classics like Dostojevski, Homer, and Shakespeare, they also stock non-classics and fantasy titles. So, it's not just about the Nobel laureates or stuff written in Old English, I guess.

Exactly! It feels like these institutions just cling to a handful of "proven" classics from some outdated canon, and they haven't budged from that same list in fifty years, if not longer. I really wish my grandmother were still around; I would have loved to ask her what her required reading list looked like back during the WWII era. Honestly, I have a feeling there wouldn't have been much difference until you hit about fourth grade.😂

Susan James said:That's just not true.
silentraven6 was actually reading him back in the day, way back in the late 20th century, during elementary school.
And he isn't literary trash; it's the movies that are the problem—they oversimplified the entire plot.

It’s not just him, though—it’s me and a huge number of people too. Despite how genres were perceived back then, it became a cult classic.
Even if we try our best to be open-minded after that comment about Tolkien, I honestly can't take anything seriously anymore once those movies come up.

Michelle Nelson4 said:Exactly! It feels like these institutions just cling to a handful of "proven" classics from some outdated canon, and they haven't budged from that same list in fifty years, if not longer. I really wish my grandmother were still around; I would have loved to ask her what her required reading list looked like back during the WWII era. Honestly, I have a feeling there wouldn't have been much difference until you hit about fourth grade.😂

So, if you were in charge, what would your suggested reading list look like?🙂

Listen up, elves—sorry, I guess I should say hobbits since you don't want me putting words in your mouth; anyway, if fictional creatures and elves are trash, I have to wonder, urbantinker8, what exactly does Brlic have left? Who even shows up in Christmas Eve?

Peter Doyle2 said:I was doing a bit of digging into the British school system and their required reading lists. It’s interesting—turns out they don't think Tolkien is trash at all.

It’s not like our local classics are garbage either.

But anyone who actually views literature as a fine art of language knows that those old staples aren't worth a single drop of ink when you look at them through a truly artistic lens.
They definitely serve a purpose in the history of American letters, but that role certainly isn't about being the pinnacle of literary greatness.

It's much the same way with Tolkien's standing in British circles.

Good grief, Tolkien. 🙂

I honestly wouldn't dream of making Tolkien, Rowling, or even GRRM mandatory reading. I mean, if nothing else, the translations for those books are just straight-up criminal—they’re basically cautionary tales of how *not* to translate literature. I'd leave them as an option for whoever actually wants to dive in, though.

As for those little fantasy dwarves, elves, and dragons? Yeah, they're total garbage. Just... ugh. 🤣

Peter Doyle2 said:Listen up, elves—sorry, I guess I should say hobbits since you don't want me putting words in your mouth; anyway, if fictional creatures and elves are trash, I have to wonder, urbantinker8, what exactly does Brlic have left? Who even shows up in Christmas Eve?

well, I suppose those are legitimate questions, if we're being honest.🤷
but it seems like when it comes to our own little dwarves, giants, or elves, everyone is suddenly capable of talking absolute nonsense about them; I mean, old American literature can be pretty rough, but old English stuff is just awful sometimes.
I don't quite grasp this double standard you guys seem to have going on, so maybe if someone could provide a bit of an explanation, that would be great?🙂

The truth about translations 😢 but nothing will ever quite match how incredible Pratchett's translations are 🤮