Started by brisktiger56 · · 👁 54 views · 1.1K replies
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Linda Price5 said:Sure, if you believe a woman who spends hours getting dolled up for a guy just to try and take his head off represents a third of the FBI. (The other third falls under the reverse scenario, and the remaining third is just whatever else is out there.)
Linda Price5 said:And which ones, specifically, and why? 😁
Why, for instance, are we reading Russians when we aren't reading any Americans?
What does Toni Morrison lack that some local author might have—a Nobel Prize, perhaps? 😳
What are sixteen-year-olds supposed to gain from pretending to read a book written in a dialect that I, someone significantly older and reasonably literate, can barely decipher?
Why pick some old regional classic over Neil Gaiman?
Why shouldn't young children have a picture book that actually won a Caldecott medal on their required reading list?
And honestly, given that the whole point of education seems to be something you just power through because it won't make your career any better—nor will anyone at work care if you feel like writing a tedious report any more than school cares if you feel like doing your reading—I find myself wondering why we bother sending kids to school at all, let alone forcing them through several pages of this. 😁
Linda Price5 said:You have a point. 😁
urbantinker8, I’m still struggling to grasp the fundamental purpose of assigned reading; at least from my perspective, its utility remains entirely elusive. 😁 If the sole objective is to assassinate the classics, it would be far more cost-effective to simply print posters that read "Dostoevsky being stupid" and plaster them all over the school hallways. There is absolutely no need to bother teaching the literature at all. 😁
I suppose I should probably say something about chocolatecookie, though I’m not entirely sure what there is to add at this point, given how much has already been discussed, but I guess I'll just offer my two cents if anyone actually cares to hear them. It feels like we’ve been circling the same drain for a while now, and maybe I’m just being overly cautious, but I can't help but feel that certain perspectives are being overlooked in favor of more immediate, louder opinions. It’s a bit like watching a slow-motion replay where you think you know the outcome, yet you still find yourself questioning the physics of it all, I suppose. Anyway, I don't mean to ramble on about nothing, but sometimes these discussions seem to lack that certain level of nuance that makes them worth having in the first place, which is a shame, really. kaže:
urbantinker8, I still haven't quite wrapped my head around what the point of required reading is supposed to be, though I suppose that’s just me, maybe. 😁
Susan James said:Parents are always to blame, 😬 🧐
whether it's because they try to teach kids to read too early, or they don't teach them at all—especially if they aren't reading aloud or offering picture books from day one. And apparently, it's also their fault if they push extra books beyond the school curriculum; if a kid starts reading sci-fi or fiction on their own and then doesn't have the time or interest for the assigned classics, the parent gets the blame again. 🐔
Reading is vital, though. It builds vocabulary, fuels imagination, and helps maintain focus...
It’s great to offer books to kids or read to them, but that definitely doesn't guarantee they'll become lifelong readers (like Summer mentioned, it can actually backfire sometimes).
That said, schools really should require students to read certain works, get to know them, and discuss them. If we leave everything up to the student's choice (or the parents'), what's the point of sending them to school in the first place?
There really needs to be some way to check reading comprehension.
Whether it's through writing or class discussions...
urbantinker8 said:I suppose I should probably say something about chocolatecookie, though I’m not entirely sure what there is to add at this point, given how much has already been discussed, but I guess I'll just offer my two cents if anyone actually cares to hear them. It feels like we’ve been circling the same drain for a while now, and maybe I’m just being overly cautious, but I can't help but feel that certain perspectives are being overlooked in favor of more immediate, louder opinions. It’s a bit like watching a slow-motion replay where you think you know the outcome, yet you still find yourself questioning the physics of it all, I suppose. Anyway, I don't mean to ramble on about nothing, but sometimes these discussions seem to lack that certain level of nuance that makes them worth having in the first place, which is a shame, really. kaže:
urbantinker8, I still haven't quite wrapped my head around what the point of required reading is supposed to be, though I suppose that’s just me, maybe. 😁
I mean, you have to admit, it’s honestly a little tragic when you see someone who is clearly an adult with a decent education putting out a statement like that. It just feels a bit off, I guess.😢
If someone truly doesn't grasp what literature is actually for—beyond just being a way to kill time or have a bit of fun—then I honestly, with all due respect and given my own professional habit of being endlessly, almost unnervingly patient when it comes to explaining things, just don't really have the heart to sit down and break it all down for them. I suppose I just lack the will to go there, sorry.🤷
Christian Wilson28 said:Required school reading, not literature in general. The topic is specifically about why we assign certain books in school—so stay on track. Everyone knows what literature is for; the issue here is the mandatory school reading list.
Linda Price5 said:And which ones, specifically, and why? 😁
Why, for instance, are we reading Russians when we aren't reading any Americans?
What does Toni Morrison lack that some local author might have—a Nobel Prize, perhaps? 😳
What are sixteen-year-olds supposed to gain from pretending to read a book written in a dialect that I, someone significantly older and reasonably literate, can barely decipher?
Why pick some old regional classic over Neil Gaiman?
Why shouldn't young children have a picture book that actually won a Caldecott medal on their required reading list?
And honestly, given that the whole point of education seems to be something you just power through because it won't make your career any better—nor will anyone at work care if you feel like writing a tedious report any more than school cares if you feel like doing your reading—I find myself wondering why we bother sending kids to school at all, let alone forcing them through several pages of this. 😁
feralharbor8 said:Wasn't Mark Twain excluded?
I honestly don't know how people can just gloss over this stuff. It’s like they’re walking through life with their eyes shut tight. I was reading through some old essays the other day—you know, the kind of heavy lifting that actually makes you think—and it hit me how much we miss when we aren't paying attention to the details. Everything matters. Every little thing. I saw what wanderingbadger44 was saying earlier about the way modern society just moves too fast, and I have to agree. It feels frantic. We’re all just rushing toward some finish line that doesn't even exist. It reminds me of those stories where characters are chasing ghosts, only to realize they were the ones haunting themselves all along. It’s heavy, I know. But if we don't stop to breathe and actually look at the world around us, what are we even doing? What’s the point of the struggle if we aren't present for it? kaže:
Finally, someone actually knows what they're talking about—and I mean a real professional here, someone who isn't just blowing smoke like everyone else on this forum. Unlike the rest of you guys, who seem to be arguing over some random high school reading list, this person is actually bringing some real expertise to the table.🙏
But still.
I guess we're just sitting around waiting on the others now...🍿
MajoWhy on earth would you think that someone like Ivo Andrić, Arthur Conan Doyle, a Raven-like storyteller, or even Jules Verne would actually grab a kid's attention?
Or maybe just more interesting than the other authors on the required reading list this year?
I’m pretty much certain that people would drop dead from boredom just as quickly reading through a long-winded Jules Verne description as they would wading through those endless Marcel Proust reminiscences.🙂
Opinion pieces, essays, deep-dive critiques? Honestly, that kind of stuff is a total nightmare for kids today. They just aren't interested. The only way you might actually grab their attention is if the topic revolves around bloggers, YouTubers, or Instagram influencers—maybe then they'd bother to look up from their phones.
So, I’ve been thinking about this lately—what is actually the point of diving into the works of someone like Stephen King or J. R. R. Tolkien? And more importantly, why should anyone who considers themselves "educated" bother with them? It’s a fair question. You have people who look down their noses at genre fiction, treating it like some sort of guilty pleasure rather than actual literature. But honestly? I think they're missing the forest for the trees. Take King, for example. It isn't just about the jump scares or the gore. If you really sit with his writing, he’s a master of the human condition. He writes about how ordinary, everyday people—people you might pass on a street in Chicago or a small town in Ohio—react when the unthinkable happens. He digs into that raw, unvarnished anxiety we all carry around. That kind of psychological depth? That’s real stuff. It’s worth reading because it holds up a mirror to our own fears and vulnerabilities. Then you’ve got Tolkien. People call it "escapism," and sure, part of it is. But it’s much deeper than just running away from reality. When you read *The Lord of the Rings*, you aren't just reading about hobbits and magic; you're reading about the struggle between good and evil, the weight of responsibility, and the idea that even the smallest, most insignificant person can change the course of history. There's a profound moral architecture in his world-building that stays with you long after you close the book. I feel like an educated person should read them precisely because these stories touch on universal truths. Literature isn't just about high-brow prose or obscure metaphors; it's about empathy and understanding the complexities of existence. Whether you're navigating the dark corners of a haunted house or trekking through Middle-earth, you're learning something about what it means to be human. I'm curious what everyone else thinks. Is there value in the "genre" stuff for you, or do you prefer sticking to the classics?
urbantinker8 said:You’ve laid everything out quite beautifully, I suppose, but if you expect some kid to actually grasp and dissect all this the way you’ve envisioned it, they’d probably need a massive head start in literature, art history, linguistics, and world history and... well, just about everything else.
In short—you're being a bit pretentious, if you ask me.😁
Someone who approaches these questions as a total blank slate isn't going to be able to interpret any of the works you're listing here. In reality, instead of diving into anything resembling Marinela or Ivo Andrić, they'll probably just end up writing a school essay about Christina Aguilera or Lady Gaga.🤣
If you ever find yourself teaching a classroom, maybe you could try putting together your own "relaxed" reading list and let us know how it goes—specifically, whether the lessons actually function the way you think they will.👍
silentraven6 said:Quentin Tarantino
Everything I’ve put out there needs to be taken with a grain of salt. What we really need is a total overhaul of how we teach American English and literature, driven by truly top-tier, genuinely motivated teachers.
I’m feeling incredibly motivated right now. I’ll have the chance to work with a really solid group of students soon, which is basically my litmus test. It's going to show me if that creative spark is still alive in me, or if it all just evaporated after years of nothing but reading, random odd jobs, and endless writing sessions without any real stakes. I want to see if I can actually produce something meaningful again without causing any chaos for the kids. Once I see how it goes, I’ll definitely reach out and let you know my thoughts.
I don't honestly expect to hit it out of the park right away. I know I’m going to mess things up. I’ll get burnt out, I’ll struggle with the paperwork, and there will definitely be days where the logistics just feel overwhelming. But still... I can't help but feel like these ideas actually matter. Since I was a kid, people have been telling me I'm too much of an idealist—basically predicting my failure before I even start. Well, I'm still here, living my life, and I'm just waiting for the moment they finally prove me wrong.
silentraven6 said:I mean, why isn't someone like Philip K. Dick included? Why are we seeing such a lack of intelligent crime fiction filled with archetypal characters? Where is Arthur Conan Doyle?
And what about graphic novels in the curriculum? Something like Persepolis would be an incredible choice for high school juniors—it’s a brilliant graphic novel.
Then there's the absence of Huysmans. He’s such a fascinating, aestheticist author with this genius way of reflecting on the world through the lens of his characters' distorted perceptions.
We have those brilliant Raven-like dramas, but what happened to the short story or slam poetry? And what about the fantasy writers and that Borgesian legacy? Even if it's a niche, you could pull out some great stories for kids, link them to modern fantasy works, or even connect them to sci-fi. We even have that one sci-fi novel by Mark Twain which feels a bit juvenile, but it's worth including just because it was an attempt. You could really do something amazing with that.
Why is there no non-fiction on the reading list? No criticism? No essays? Imagine offering a comparative study of Ivo Andrić and Miroslav Krleža regarding Francisco Goya for students who might actually be interested in attending art academy. Those are probably some of the best essayistic works produced in our region.
Why wouldn't we have students read Kasparavicius alongside Aesop-like fables or a Fairy tale in high school?
And where is Stephen King? Why don't they ever reach for The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings?
The mysterious island from Jules Verne, or better yet, the Danubian sailor—where is all that? Can't that serve as evidence of the era and support a literary history approach? Isn't it valuable enough?
silentraven6 said:I honestly don't know how people can just gloss over this stuff. It’s like they’re walking through life with their eyes shut tight. I was reading through some old essays the other day—you know, the kind of heavy lifting that actually makes you think—and it hit me how much we miss when we aren't paying attention to the details. Everything matters. Every little thing. I saw what wanderingbadger44 was saying earlier about the way modern society just moves too fast, and I have to agree. It feels frantic. We’re all just rushing toward some finish line that doesn't even exist. It reminds me of those stories where characters are chasing ghosts, only to realize they were the ones haunting themselves all along. It’s heavy, I know. But if we don't stop to breathe and actually look at the world around us, what are we even doing? What’s the point of the struggle if we aren't present for it? kaže:
Finally, someone actually knows what they're talking about—and I mean a real professional here, someone who isn't just blowing smoke like everyone else on this forum. Unlike the rest of you guys, who seem to be arguing over some random high school reading list, this person is actually bringing some real expertise to the table.🙏
But still.
I guess we're just sitting around waiting on the others now...🍿
MajoWhy on earth would you think that someone like Ivo Andrić, Arthur Conan Doyle, a Raven-like storyteller, or even Jules Verne would actually grab a kid's attention?
Or maybe just more interesting than the other authors on the required reading list this year?
I’m pretty much certain that people would drop dead from boredom just as quickly reading through a long-winded Jules Verne description as they would wading through those endless Marcel Proust reminiscences.🙂
Opinion pieces, essays, deep-dive critiques? Honestly, that kind of stuff is a total nightmare for kids today. They just aren't interested. The only way you might actually grab their attention is if the topic revolves around bloggers, YouTubers, or Instagram influencers—maybe then they'd bother to look up from their phones.
So, I’ve been thinking about this lately—what is actually the point of diving into the works of someone like Stephen King or J. R. R. Tolkien? And more importantly, why should anyone who considers themselves "educated" bother with them? It’s a fair question. You have people who look down their noses at genre fiction, treating it like some sort of guilty pleasure rather than actual literature. But honestly? I think they're missing the forest for the trees. Take King, for example. It isn't just about the jump scares or the gore. If you really sit with his writing, he’s a master of the human condition. He writes about how ordinary, everyday people—people you might pass on a street in Chicago or a small town in Ohio—react when the unthinkable happens. He digs into that raw, unvarnished anxiety we all carry around. That kind of psychological depth? That’s real stuff. It’s worth reading because it holds up a mirror to our own fears and vulnerabilities. Then you’ve got Tolkien. People call it "escapism," and sure, part of it is. But it’s much deeper than just running away from reality. When you read *The Lord of the Rings*, you aren't just reading about hobbits and magic; you're reading about the struggle between good and evil, the weight of responsibility, and the idea that even the smallest, most insignificant person can change the course of history. There's a profound moral architecture in his world-building that stays with you long after you close the book. I feel like an educated person should read them precisely because these stories touch on universal truths. Literature isn't just about high-brow prose or obscure metaphors; it's about empathy and understanding the complexities of existence. Whether you're navigating the dark corners of a haunted house or trekking through Middle-earth, you're learning something about what it means to be human. I'm curious what everyone else thinks. Is there value in the "genre" stuff for you, or do you prefer sticking to the classics?
Language isn't even their main hurdle. If you look at someone like August Šenoa—take his work on *Judith*, for instance—it’s more than just a matter of distance or a language barrier. It's deeper than that.
The Raven-like *Forgotten Son* is honestly such a great pick for high schoolers. It’s probably one of those last real chances we have to actually instill some values regarding empathy and accepting people who are different from us. Plus, you can really dive into the mechanics of the language since Gvran is such a master at it. Also, his *Judith* could easily serve as a precursor to something more Marulić-like—it feels like a smoother, more appropriate way to bridge that gap.
In Verne’s *Danubian* nautical tales, you don't see nearly as many of those complex sentences, but honestly, I don't think sentence structure itself is the issue when it comes to kids. Look, I never said I was against foreign loanwords, neologisms, or those flashy, stylistic sentences. I have nothing against Marcel Proust; I actually think a junior in high school has the capacity to tackle him if they just keep a dictionary of foreign terms handy. And frankly, I use one myself. I’m not about to sit here and feed anyone the lie that I don't need to look up certain foreign words that have become part of our everyday American vocabulary. It's just reality. My ten-year-old knows exactly where the dictionary is kept and what it's for. Plus, everything is online now—you can find a definition with a single click (I’ve actually been working on a project centered around that very idea). My only real issue is with the rigid adherence to archaic poetic periods and being tortured by meter or old-fashioned American English that even an average American linguist would struggle to parse.
The sheer volume of vocabulary in those works stems from Latin, Greek, and Italian roots. Honestly, you shouldn't expect someone to stumble upon those kinds of linguistic connections—or that kind of "spaghetti" method of linking languages together—when they're only fifteen. It’s just not how it works. You need more time to develop that kind of insight.
I don't think essays and critiques are the nightmare here; I think underestimating them is the real nightmare. Think about it—a graphic designer actually needs to know how to visually interpret Francisco Goya’s paintings when they're working on an essay about him. It sounds simple, but the task is actually pretty heavy: they have to dive into those two specific essays, handpick the images that best capture the artist's essence through the lens of someone like Miroslav Krleža or Ivo Andrić, then modernize the layout to meet current standards. On top of all that, they’re expected to design a whole new edition for a school-level booklet, complete with their own comparative analysis of those two distinct writing styles. That's a lot more than just "picking pictures."
Can someone else here write an essay about Lidija Bačić and Jelena Rozga? I’d love to see it done in the style of Miroslav Krleža or Ivo Andrić—basically, try to mimic their specific prose and how they build an argument. 🤣
What’s actually worth reading when you look at someone like J. R. R. Tolkien or Stephen King? What hits the mark and what just misses? It makes me wonder about the true value of a literary work—I mean, how much weight does a book really carry, and how long does it actually take for something to earn the title of a "classic"? Take King, for example. Is he truly a classic? There seems to be this ongoing debate about whether you can even bridge the gap between his written word and modern media culture. Can you really lump them together? And then there's the deeper question: could you, say, pick up a classic piece of literature dealing with the devil and compare it to something like *Radiation* before sitting down to watch the film adaptation? Does that connection even hold water?
Did J. R. R. Tolkien really go all out trying to map out an entire universe? I mean, he didn't just write a book; he built a whole mythology from the ground up. It makes me wonder if we can even put his work on the same level as classical Greek mythology or those old Greek tragedies. Is there a direct line between his legends and the classics? I’d love to dig into that—to look for those patterns and talk about why we’re so obsessed with myths and these fantastical creatures in the first place. There's also something fascinating about how a character's physical traits seem to mirror their internal struggles, you know? Like, how their psychological flaws, their deviations, or even their mental shortcomings are written right onto their bodies. And honestly, a simple question like: why do Hobbits have such big feet? There has to be a reason behind everything.
wanderingbadger44 said:It feels like everyone is just pretending he’s actually good
Tolkien! 🤦
The truth is, he’s essentially literary junk, which is why you won't find him getting any serious attention in American English departments or literature programs. Honestly, most people wouldn't have even heard his name if it weren't for those massive movie franchises, because his work just doesn't hold much weight on its own.
And even if we set that aside, let's be real: nobody is picking up his books unless they're looking to catch up on the films.
