What's the point of required reading?

Everyone seems to be giving it a 4 or 5 🤷

So, what's the issue? Honestly, as the mother of a GOOD reader, I think those 200 pages are going to be a real struggle for most kids, especially with all the footnotes and archaic vocabulary.
I don't see any reason to throw books like this at kids during their early reading years while they're still just trying to master fluency. We shouldn't be making them view reading as some kind of chore.
They'll have plenty of time for the heavy hitters like *The Great Gatsby* or *To Kill a Mockingbird* once they get to high school. 😂

rowdypanther12 said:Everyone seems to be giving it a 4 or 5 🤷

So, what's the issue? Honestly, as the mother of a GOOD reader, I think those 200 pages are going to be a real struggle for most kids, especially with all the footnotes and archaic vocabulary.
I don't see any reason to throw books like this at kids during their early reading years while they're still just trying to master fluency. We shouldn't be making them view reading as some kind of chore.
They'll have plenty of time for the heavy hitters like *The Great Gatsby* or *To Kill a Mockingbird* once they get to high school. 😂

Personally, I don't think it's an impossible mountain to climb.
It can be done.
And it will be done.
Your average kid can handle it. I wouldn't call it "torture" or say the pictures make it feel like a massive burden. Yeah, it'll be tough, yeah, they might struggle a bit, but they'll get through it. And then something else comes along—something even harder, with even more foreign terms, even more text, even more complex structures... it's all just Pinocchio. 😁

Of course it isn't an impossible struggle. It’s just that I don't see much point in making things harder than they need to be. To be honest, the book is dense rather than difficult, and luckily we have a pretty decent teacher who isn't just handing out picture books or short stories to kids who are already struggling with reading—instead, she's actually challenging them with 200 pages of solid text.

Susan James said:It looks like you might have hit send a little too early! I'm here and ready whenever you want to share what's on your mind. Just let me know how I can help! 😕
Let them keep typing. Honestly, human stupidity knows no bounds. It’s almost impossible to even start making a list of everything you have to watch out for just to ensure kids stay safe—not that some parents would ever bother to look. 🤔
Because of people like that, should regular kids really be the ones to miss out on quality education?

I actually saw this happen once—this one self-righteous mom starts attacking a librarian just because she let a kid grab a book that, according to her "moral standards," had way too much sex in it.🍿
People are just waiting around, while she's over there screaming about developmental issues in an 11-year-old.

I think the main reason there's such a massive gap between what kids can actually handle and the unrealistic expectations placed on them at ages 7 or 8—expectations that don't even make sense developmentally—is primarily due to our American school system.
We start mandatory schooling way too late compared to the rest of the world. Even back when I was pregnant with my first, people were already talking about shifting to a 9-year elementary model that would have just barely caught me in time. Yeah, right. Then there was all this talk about implementing daily mandatory sessions in preschools, not just standard daycare, but something more structured. That didn't happen either.
When you look at how easily delays are brushed off, it turns out some eighth graders are still struggling with basic spelling. Preschool isn't enough for a child who doesn't attend daycare, and since there’s no universal standard for preparation among daycares, kids enter school with wildly different skill levels depending, well, on luck. In the daycare center where I worked before moving to the States, we were strictly forbidden from doing any direct instruction—I used to read books to the kids under the radar because I wasn't allowed to "gather" them for lessons. We couldn't even put things on the tables because that was seen as being too pushy; the idea was that a child should just pick whatever they want from the shelf. Now, imagine a kid coming from an environment like that, having no concept of structure or letters, walking into a classroom where most other kids had much better preparation and might even be able to quote stories already. Of course they're falling behind, and it's not because of a diagnosis or the parents or the kid—it's a systemic failure.
If you look at other countries, especially the more developed ones, almost all of them start some form of mandatory schooling much earlier. Britons have their prep schools starting around age 3 or 4, I believe? My daughter's kindergarten started when she was 5; they mostly played, and the classroom felt more like a playroom with activity centers and toys, but they were working on letters and math patterns, and by the end of the year, they were reading very simple picture books through repetition. By age 6, she was basically doing what American first graders do. The point is, the kids aren't overwhelmed, and they reach those milestones gradually. Meanwhile, in America, there's this expectation that a seven-year-old should suddenly be reading literature halfway through the second semester, even if they were a total non-reader in the fall.

urbantinker8 said:

I suppose I should probably mention that I’ve been thinking quite a bit about how much certain things change over time, though I can never quite pin down why it feels so significant when it happens. It’s funny, really, how we get caught up in these little cycles. I was sitting there the other day—just staring out at the street in Chicago, I guess—thinking about how everything seems to move so fast now, yet some things feel like they haven't budged an inch since I was a kid. Maybe it's just me being overly contemplative, or maybe there's actually something to it. Anyway, I don't mean to ramble on forever, but I felt like sharing that thought, if anyone cares to listen. kaže:

Good grief, please don't embarrass yourself like that. 😁

I wonder who exactly is the one currently pounding on the faculty lounge door in a total fury over those decapitated heads and severed breasts found in the literature curriculum. 😁 I guess I was just sitting there thinking about that whole bizarre situation involving the severed hands at the elementary school, and honestly, it’s just one of those things that makes you wonder how we even function as a society sometimes. It feels like one of those dark, surrealist movies you’d see at an indie theater in Seattle or something, where everything is just slightly off and unsettlingly quiet. I don't know, maybe it's just me being overly cautious, but when you hear about stuff like that happening in a local school district, it sort of stays with you, doesn't it? It’s such a strange, heavy thing to wrap your head around, especially when you think about the kids involved. I suppose there isn't much to be said other than it's deeply unsettling, though I guess everyone is just trying to process it in their own way.

Parents.
If you happen to open your mouth about any topic they consider sensitive, they’re on you in a heartbeat. I mean, it doesn't matter what it is—you could be talking about biology, religion, history, literature, or psychology, and they'll be right there ready to jump in.
It seems like whenever they encounter something that feels a bit taboo, or perhaps just sits uncomfortably alongside the standard curriculum—you know, the stuff they're taught in their American history books, English lit classes, psychology seminars, or even Sunday school—they immediately go running to find "information" elsewhere. I guess it’s almost like a reflex, where if a textbook or a formal lecture doesn't align with their specific worldview, they suddenly feel the need to hunt down some alternative truth to fill the gap. Maybe it's just how people react when their preconceived notions get poked, though I suppose it could be interpreted a few different ways.
I swear I'm telling the truth, though I suppose you probably won't believe me anyway.🐔

I mean, okay, but what is actually the point of having these kids sit through some mandatory reading hour? I guess we have to look at the reality of things, because most parents aren't exactly sitting down with books, and they probably weren't reading to their kids back in the day either. Most of these homes don't even have a library on the shelf, and—not to be harsh—but maybe the intellectual engagement at home isn't exactly hitting the mark. So why force them into this hour of literature instead of just letting them go outside and kick a soccer ball around at the park? I don't really see the utility in it. What's the actual gain? Is knowing one extra trivia question about whether they’ll end up watching The Chase more valuable than, say, physical activity? It feels like such a waste of everyone's resources—the students' time, the teachers' energy, and honestly, even the electricity, the fuel, the lightbulbs, and the chalk. It all seems a bit excessive, if you ask me.

If we’re talking about high school—which, let's be honest, is pretty much all I ever want to talk about—I guess it isn't strictly necessary for them to actually accomplish anything at all. Maybe they don't even need to read.🤷
I guess some people just end up with a one or a two on their literature assignments.
I mean, honestly, maybe they just shouldn't go to that school at all. Actually, I guess it might be better if they didn't go to school entirely.
I suppose I really don't know.
If they really feel like they're just spinning their wheels and wasting everyone's time, I suppose they might as well just sit this one out. Honestly, it's fine by me if they decide to do nothing at all.

I’d probably bet you some money that most of those colleagues of yours—the ones trekking out to these overly ambitious, high-flown professional development seminars—don't actually have a clue when it comes to things like test-enhanced learning or spaced repetition. I mean, maybe they do, but I suspect they likely haven't a prayer about how to actually take effective notes, and even if they did happen to figure it out, I doubt they're passing those skills along to anyone else. It seems to me that unless someone is specifically a psychology professor, they probably don't grasp much about the limitations of working memory, or any of those actual strategies people need when the whole point is supposed to be moving information into long-term storage. I guess it's just my hunch, but it feels like there's a massive gap between the lofty titles of these workshops and the actual science of how we learn.

I think I’d be willing to put some money on your head too, honestly, because you seem to be completely off base here.🙂

The MoonI mean, I guess I have to ask, why exactly are you trolling?🍿

Man, this Canadian census list is just a total mess, I guess.🙂
I guess if you look at all these headlines, most people would probably just lose their minds over how many there are, though I don't know. Judging by what's actually being written, it seems like everything is once again just overflowing with elves, dwarves, witches, and that sort of thing.🙄
I suppose I’ve been thinking quite a bit about summer lately, though I can’t quite pin down why it feels different this year, maybe because the heat just seems to linger a little longer in the air than it used to, or perhaps it’s just my own perception shifting as the seasons roll on. It’s funny how we spend all winter dreaming of that specific kind of golden, heavy warmth, only to find ourselves sitting in front of an air conditioner in some quiet suburb outside of Chicago, wondering where the time went. I guess there’s a certain melancholy to it, isn't there? That slow, drifting feeling of July afternoons where the humidity makes everything feel slightly out of focus, almost like a dream you can't quite shake. I don't know, maybe I'm just being overly contemplative, but there's something about the way the light hits the pavement in August that always makes me feel like I should be doing something more productive, even if I have absolutely no intention of actually getting up from my chair. I saw they have A Wrinkle in Time on the shelves—I actually took a moment to read the synopsis, and honestly, goodness help me, it looks like an absolute disaster.🤣

My head is actually starting to ache from the sheer quality of your comprehension.

Why even bother including literature in the curriculum, urbantinker8, if they aren't capable of handling it because nobody ever sat down with a book at home?

Are we really going to pay teachers to sit there and analyze Mark Twain with horses? Why not?

I’d take that bet any day, because you are completely off base.🙂
:

Oh, I am absolutely off base. Ninety percent of your colleagues are using mind maps with their students; eighty-five percent utilize and encourage memory palaces; ninety-five percent lean heavily on the testing effect; everyone is acutely aware of the Pygmalion effect—because you can't step foot in a classroom without knowing it—everyone is scientifically literate, and nobody gives a damn about creationism, homeopathy, or radiesthesia. Instead, they read actual research, and they conduct their own. It's the teacher as a reflective practitioner. 👋
The fact that a massive group of people, after eleven or twelve years of schooling—and I am being very careful to say "schooling" rather than "education"—can't even distinguish a simple negation, has absolutely nothing to do with the teachers. And I am intentionally avoiding the word "educators," because their job is to deliver a lesson, not necessarily to ensure someone learns something.
😁

Listen, smarty-pants, take a look at the NAEP results from the cycle focused on reading literacy back in the early 2000s. Look at how many students fell into each proficiency level, look at the sample questions used for those levels, and then maybe we can get back to discussing your "super-literate" colleagues. 😁

why isn't "we kids from the train station zoo" included in the required reading list?

I think my brain is actually starting to ache from trying to follow your logic, if you can even call it that.

I mean, why are they even tasked with teaching literature, urbantinker8, when they clearly lack the basic capacity for it since they probably didn't even bother reading the books at home?

Oh, believe me, my head is spinning too from all this pseudo-intellectual posturing you're doing.🙄
I honestly don't have the energy to play along with this fake deep persona of yours, especially since it feels like you're just talking to yourself in an empty room anyway.🙂

Do you genuinely not understand the purpose behind studying literature? Like, seriously, do you really not get it?

I actually feel bad for you. I really do.
😢

Larry Walker24 said:why isn't "we kids from the train station zoo" included in the required reading list?

Well, that's not part of the official canon and doesn't follow any historical timeline—honestly, Larry Walker24, you really should watch the clock. 😬

Kazo the rhino says it's being handled in the German language 🤷

why isn't this on the required reading list—that "kids from the train station zoo" thing

well, probably because some parent would show up at the school within forty-eight hours screaming about how you're making their kids read books about junkies, especially with those nasty photos right in the middle😲😂

all joking aside, I actually tried doing something similar with my own kids once.
it was kind of a lukewarm reception, I guess; nobody was particularly thrilled about it.

Well, I mean, it isn't exactly a historical canon or anything, so it doesn't really follow any specific era, Larry Walker24, maybe you should check the clock once in a while.

I have to say, I am honestly a bit let down by how much trolling is going on in this thread lately.🙄

Yeah, I suppose you have a point there. We definitely need more non-canonical, modern stories about unicorns and gnomes in our school reading lists, especially ones fighting against those big IT black forces, I guess.🎉
One could probably learn quite a few clever things from pieces like that, if you think about it.🙏

Peter Doyle2 said:Well, that's not part of the official canon and doesn't follow any historical timeline—honestly, Larry Walker24, you really should watch the clock. 😬

Kazo the rhino says it's being handled in the German language 🤷

mea culpa

I have to say, I’m pretty disappointed by how much you’re bringing up angry parents in this thread just to shift the blame for your own lack of flexibility onto someone else. Maybe just point those frustrated parents toward the federal agency that actually wrote these regulations and find some peace ☕

urbantinker8 - teen read recommendation - Miriam Preisler's "Dark chocolate" is actually killer

I tried reading that "Momo" fairy tale in German and honestly? Total garbage.

Honestly, you’ve really let me down by bringing up angry parents so much in this thread, almost as if you're trying to blame their outbursts on someone else just to justify being inflexible. I'd suggest sending any disgruntled parent straight to the Department of Education where these regulations were drafted and then just leave it at that.

I suppose I’m just stating the facts as I see them.☕
but you seem to be trolling for no real reason.
for what it's worth, I consider myself an extremely flexible person, and I can handle any irate parent on my own without needing some sort of middleman.🙂
I also get the feeling you've walked away with the wrong impression that I actually teach English.
it isn't quite like that; I don't teach it, I've just read a massive amount of literature throughout my life—required reading included, of course—so I tend to offer my own two cents on the subject.😉

I don’t need some fancy PISA study to remind me about those kids in my classes back in the day who struggled so hard to read that everyone else just sat there laughing at them.🙂 They were literally getting mocked.

There were way fewer of them compared to the fluent readers, and honestly, we’d all just die of boredom while one or two kids per class spent an eternity struggling through just two sentences from a textbook.

Just because someone can "read fluently" doesn't mean they actually possess literacy. Good grief, if I tried to count the number of college students who failed to notice entire fragments missing from their textbooks—even when you literally pointed your finger at the page and told them, "something isn't right here"—I’d run out of fingers before I finished my list.

Do I read other people's posts? Of course. Bane23 sounds like a textbook little bureaucrat, Persephone is busy swinging her broom around and scaring everyone, I have to read William's posts two or three times just to process them and find myself wanting to invite her out for a drink, and then there's you—full of feelings but completely lacking in arguments. To top it off, you make it abundantly clear to all of us that, given the chance, you'd eventually look at him and say, "William, buddy, either bring me proof that fairies small enough to be wrapped in discarded snake skin actually exist, or stop declaring war."

urbantinker8 said:

I think my brain is actually starting to ache from trying to follow your logic, if you can even call it that.

I mean, why are they even tasked with teaching literature, urbantinker8, when they clearly lack the basic capacity for it since they probably didn't even bother reading the books at home?

Oh, believe me, my head is spinning too from all this pseudo-intellectual posturing you're doing.🙄
I honestly don't have the energy to play along with this fake deep persona of yours, especially since it feels like you're just talking to yourself in an empty room anyway.🙂

Do you genuinely not understand the purpose behind studying literature? Like, seriously, do you really not get it?

I actually feel bad for you. I really do.
😢

I honestly haven't the slightest clue.

It’s even more pathetic than that. I honestly can't see the point of our entire educational system when you compare it to the reality of people sitting around listening to podcasts while they sew tiny little accessories for seven bucks an hour.

Do you actually have any idea what you’re talking about, or are you even capable of providing an explanation?

Do you actually have an idea what’s going on here, and if so, could you maybe walk me through it?

I suppose I do.
and I think I could, if I really tried.
actually, I've already done it—more than once, I guess.😉

Richard Perez3 said:Personally, I don't think it's an impossible mountain to climb.
It can be done.
And it will be done.
Your average kid can handle it. I wouldn't call it "torture" or say the pictures make it feel like a massive burden. Yeah, it'll be tough, yeah, they might struggle a bit, but they'll get through it. And then something else comes along—something even harder, with even more foreign terms, even more text, even more complex structures... it's all just Pinocchio. 😁

Then they graduate, and half of them won't touch a single book for the rest of their lives because reading feels like a chore—something you only do because life forces your hand.

Dammit. 👋