Started by brisktiger56 · · 👁 45 views · 1.1K replies
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urbantinker8 said:Do you actually have an idea what’s going on here, and if so, could you maybe walk me through it?
I suppose I do.
and I think I could, if I really tried.
actually, I've already done it—more than once, I guess.😉
| I guess I might have missed it. A quote? |
urbantinker8 said:Quincy:If you're actually interested, you can probably find it if you look.🤷
I guess I might have missed it. A quote?
Richard Perez3 said:Alright, we’re basically just running in circles here.
It feels like no matter how much we try, we just can't get on the same page when it comes to reading. Maybe we're all just more about the writing side of things anyway.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy using Reddit
Richard Perez3 said:I'm just sitting here staring at my screen, honestly. I can't believe some people actually think they have a say in how things work around here. It’s like, hello? Do you even listen to what’s being said? I was grabbing a coffee down at Starbucks this morning—just trying to have a quiet moment, you know?—and I overheard this guy complaining about the exact same nonsense that's been blowing up on these boards all week. People just love to hear themselves talk. They think their little opinions carry weight, but it's all just noise. It’s exhausting, really. Just total noise. kaže:
Who even are "we"?
I could’ve done it, for sure. I remember back in my class, there were kids who were absolutely crushing those speed-reading tests—hitting like 23 words per minute. No joke.
Honestly, who cares if kids aren't geniuses right out of the gate? Maybe they just take a little longer to mature. I know this person who had a kid basically raised by books—just surrounded by adults constantly reading together. That kid didn't even pick up reading on their own until fourth grade (though they were listening to stories way before preschool). Luckily, the mom is actually chill about this stuff. She wasn't some helicopter parent obsessing over test scores or making the kid cry over required reading; she just sat there and read everything out loud to them. Look, time flies. That kid isn't a little kid anymore, and honestly? They aren't slow or dim-witted at all. Not even close. 😁
Kids are actual human beings, you know? They're complex, living organisms. They don't always grow up exactly the way the Department of Culture thinks they should.
Look, I could've done it too. Honestly, most people in my grade—actually, pretty much everyone I went to school with, from middle school all the way through high school since I moved around so much—could have pulled it off. It was always like that. Some people... just get it. Or they don't. Honestly, I can't even deal with half of them lately. They just couldn't pull it off. Honestly, that acquaintance you mentioned? She really drives home your point. This kid had two exceptions, and one of them wasn't even forced to deal with the reading list. She wasn't made to read out loud—though, let's be real, I don't know how much you actually know about all the methods she was trying out. You called her an acquaintance, not a friend, so I'm not sure how close you guys actually are. But basically, the mom would read the assignments out loud to her just so the kid could actually process the material.
She wasn't just complaining—not that she ever does, right?—she was actually taking action. But it wasn't like she was blaming the book itself or saying the whole thing should be tossed out because she... First, second, and third grade. She can't even tackle a book on her own. Seriously.
Look, that kid is a total outlier. It’s a freak occurrence, nothing more. Seriously, don't even try to use them as an example—it's just not how things work. 😁
Look, things finally clicked for my kid—well, they aren't a kid anymore, so whatever. The big question is how we actually got there. Was it all those endless therapy sessions and specific exercises? Or would we have hit this milestone way sooner if she hadn't been bogged down by all that stuff? I mean, maybe she wouldn't have struggled so much back in fourth grade if she hadn't dealt with those speech delays that seemed to slow her down compared to everyone else. It’s hard to say. But hey, it happened. It's done.
Look, here’s my two cents: if you’ve got an average kid with zero speech issues, they should—and honestly, they *must*—be able to hold their own by the end of second grade. Period. read.
If they can't pull that off, something's definitely fishy going on behind the scenes.
Then you’ve gotta handle that the right way.
Don't try to run from it and pretend it’s "too advanced" just because kids have been reading this stuff for generations. That’s a cop-out. Look, maybe it *is* too hard for that specific kid at that exact moment—fine. But that should be the exception, not the rule. It shouldn't be the standard.
So, I wanted to jump in here with a quick story regarding that post by Persephone about parents knocking on doors... Also, my multi-quote feature is totally broken right now. Is it just me, or is yours acting up too?
You know that thing where preschool kids go on a field trip to the Smithsonian to see the early human exhibits? It’s usually right around their final year of daycare. It’s been part of the curriculum forever—thousands of kids have done it.
So, four different groups are heading out on a field trip to the museum today. For most of them, it’s a total blast—just having a good time. But there’s this one little kid who is absolutely losing it. She’s freaking out and crying her eyes out because those prehistoric caveman statues gave her the creeps. Poor thing is terrified.
Total freaking chaos.
There’s so much freaking drama going on right now that her parents actually went scorched earth on the preschool director. They’re losing their minds, claiming it’s way too early for kids that age to be exposed to this stuff, questioning where they're even taking these children, and acting like she’s walking around with straight-up trauma now. Apparently, there needs to be some kind of investigation or whatever. Total circus. kick her out because apparently, that’s just way too much for them to handle.
It's for them.
Not for her—she was clearly the exception here. I mean, we've had groups of twenty kids enjoying this for years, along with every generation before them, but now? It's all about them!
All because of one person.
Is that even normal?
I mean, seriously, try making a connection to Pinocchio or anything else that's been part of the curriculum forever, but for this tiny handful of kids, it's just too hard.
I don't know if I'm making sense, my brain is kind of racing right now.
Linda Price5 said:It’s quite elegant to simply admit "I don't have an argument." Intellectual honesty is a rare commodity these days.😁
Linda Price5 said:Reading between the lines, I'm getting the impression that people think Shakespeare is absolute garbage just because he's a fantasy figure.
Linda Price5 said:You seem to think I ever claimed Dostoevsky was trash just because you breezed through your high school reading list and concluded the literary canon isn't all that miraculous. 😢
And sure, go ahead—try explaining that logic to someone who spent their childhood throwing tantrums because being allowed to borrow just two books was "not enough" for a weekend. That’s how they'll handle the realization that their entire world collapsed once they finally finished their required school readings. 😁
Susan James said:There was actually one such book assigned to my kid's class (I think I know of a few others, but I can't be sure 😬)
I’m completely lost here.
I remember us reading that same book ages ago, back when the world felt simpler, right before we joined the Scouts.
These little ones were reading it at the end of first grade.
During the distribution of report cards, I overheard one mom telling the other parents that her precious little one still hasn't recovered from the book—that they're having nightmares (and she wouldn't let me dig into the rest of those "traumatic" details).
Honestly, I don't even know what there is to recover from. I didn't see anything traumatic about it. In fact, if we're talking about stress, that book is way less intense than learning about crucifixion and all that suffering in religious studies classes two months before the "controversial" reading assignment.
But man, this really stuck with people...
Generations of children have read this book; even the teachers in my kid's preschool used to read it to them...
I have no idea if anyone else felt that way, but anyone with common sense can—and should—critique it (in a polite, well-argued way, of course).
It makes no sense to deprive an entire class just because of one student.
That should be the guiding principle for educators.
It shouldn't be an excuse for laziness, where a teacher says, "I don't want to deal with the hassle, so I'll just claim this might be too hard for some parents to handle." I've heard stories of colleagues getting complaints at their door or even being reported over books like this...
So, I'm not really a fan of letting students or parents pick the books themselves. Instead, I think there should be working groups or supervisory committees of teachers who can share their classroom experiences regarding which parts kids struggle with. Based on that, they could select 6 or 7 mandatory works from a wide list, ensuring they have professional support to guide the kids through it.
(That would help those types of parents.)
There are plenty of unfamiliar words in classics like Pinocchio, Charlotte's Web, or The Polar Express. The writing style and sentence structures can feel dated, especially with some of the subpar translations of William that kids tend to breeze through—books that focus more on birthday gifts or counting how many pages someone read (honestly, who cares about page counts when the font is huge and there are only five lines per page?). But that doesn't mean kids shouldn't read them; it actually enriches their vocabulary. Those lighter, "instant" reads can be saved for long car rides, downtime, or religious studies classes instead.
...to me, that book isn't nearly as stressful as the idea of crucifying a living person and all the suffering they endured, which kids were learning about in religion class just two months before that controversial reading assignment.
Linda Price5 said:It isn’t just my own experience to consider. Most of the adults I know who have developed a genuine appetite for reading—and I don’t just mean mindless pulp fiction—generally shared a mutual disdain for required school reading assignments. They rarely felt those mandatory texts provided any actual value to their lives.
To me, this looks like a systemic failure.
Susan James said:There was actually one such book assigned to my kid's class (I think I know of a few others, but I can't be sure 😬)
I’m completely lost here.
I remember us reading that same book ages ago, back when the world felt simpler, right before we joined the Scouts.
These little ones were reading it at the end of first grade.
During the distribution of report cards, I overheard one mom telling the other parents that her precious little one still hasn't recovered from the book—that they're having nightmares (and she wouldn't let me dig into the rest of those "traumatic" details).
Honestly, I don't even know what there is to recover from. I didn't see anything traumatic about it. In fact, if we're talking about stress, that book is way less intense than learning about crucifixion and all that suffering in religious studies classes two months before the "controversial" reading assignment.
But man, this really stuck with people...
Generations of children have read this book; even the teachers in my kid's preschool used to read it to them...
I have no idea if anyone else felt that way, but anyone with common sense can—and should—critique it (in a polite, well-argued way, of course).
It makes no sense to deprive an entire class just because of one student.
That should be the guiding principle for educators.
It shouldn't be an excuse for laziness, where a teacher says, "I don't want to deal with the hassle, so I'll just claim this might be too hard for some parents to handle." I've heard stories of colleagues getting complaints at their door or even being reported over books like this...
So, I'm not really a fan of letting students or parents pick the books themselves. Instead, I think there should be working groups or supervisory committees of teachers who can share their classroom experiences regarding which parts kids struggle with. Based on that, they could select 6 or 7 mandatory works from a wide list, ensuring they have professional support to guide the kids through it.
(That would help those types of parents.)
There are plenty of unfamiliar words in classics like Pinocchio, Charlotte's Web, or The Polar Express. The writing style and sentence structures can feel dated, especially with some of the subpar translations of William that kids tend to breeze through—books that focus more on birthday gifts or counting how many pages someone read (honestly, who cares about page counts when the font is huge and there are only five lines per page?). But that doesn't mean kids shouldn't read them; it actually enriches their vocabulary. Those lighter, "instant" reads can be saved for long car rides, downtime, or religious studies classes instead.
Linda Price5 said:There you have it. If you had spent your time sewing designer clothes or listening to podcasts instead of grinding through science classes, you might actually have some cash in your pocket by eighteen.
To me, this kind of thing feels like a massive waste—of time, electricity, fuel, and taxpayer dollars. It’s honestly pathetic.
If an education isn't actually teaching you anything and is just burning through your life, what's even the point?
Anthony Ward6 said:True, but I guess there’s a massive difference between stumbling upon a few foreign terms and dealing with a book overflowing with them, where you can barely follow the plot because the reading experience isn't fluid at all. It just makes you frustrated and on edge while trying to get through it.
Personally, that hasn't stopped me from reading in general, but it hasn't exactly pushed me toward more complex works either. I think I just learned how to better navigate things and manipulate my professor so she’d believe I actually read the material.
Now, I’m sure Fishing and Fishing Complaints is a beautiful and significant work, but it seems exhausting as hell, and it never occurred to me to read it back then, let alone now. I don't really feel like I've missed out by never having read it; knowing the author, the era, and the gist of the plot is enough for me.
In that sense, Linda Price5 is right because required reading should serve a purpose, and I don't see the point in forcing kids to struggle through Fishing when they’re just going to grab a study guide and aim for a C or a B, which is what most of us did back in high school. I don't buy the "it's mandatory" excuse—if nobody actually reads it, why force it onto the syllabus?
urbantinker8 said:but I suppose everyone has their own version of wasting time, don't they?🤷
There really isn't a single system in the world that works perfectly for every person. For one person, it might be reading required literature, for another, it's solving calculus equations, and for someone else, it’s probably just knitting.
It doesn't particularly surprise me, nor does it frustrate me, I guess.
Some things you just power through, even if you hate them, and then you move on. I don't quite understand why it causes people such deep trauma, honestly.🤔
To each their own, I suppose.
For me, it was always a bit of a challenge. And I don't mean specifically reading old American texts, but just reading books in a foreign language—it didn't really matter if they were boring or interesting, long or short...
I felt like I learned something from every single one, expanding my vocabulary and just getting acquainted with all sorts of things. Some parts help me more today than others, but I never felt cheated just because I had to use a dictionary for certain books. If anything, it was quite the opposite.
Sometimes, you just have to stop overthinking, cut through the nonsense, and handle things with a certain level of blunt indifference. You deal with it, you move past it, and you don't look back.
For me, that was a genuine hurdle. And I’m not talking specifically about deciphering archaic American literature; I mean the broader challenge of reading books in a foreign language. It didn't matter if the material was riveting or incredibly dull, or whether it was a massive tome or a slim volume—the struggle remained the same.
Every single experience has served as a lesson, helping me expand my vocabulary and familiarize myself with just about everything under the sun. Some of that knowledge proves more useful today than others, but I certainly don't feel cheated for having spent hours hunched over books with a dictionary by my side. On the contrary, it was worth every second.
Linda Price5 said:So, why is everyone forced into the exact same curriculum? It makes zero sense. Why should an aspiring mechanic or a carpenter be stuck reading classic literature or copying down essays just to avoid failing out of school? Why is anyone required to sit through a high-level calculus lecture when they have absolutely no intention of ever using it? If someone actually develops a genuine interest in a subject later in life, they can easily pick up a book, sign up for a specialized certification course, or simply hire a private tutor. The current system is fundamentally inefficient.Sometimes, you just have to stop overthinking, cut through the nonsense, and handle things with a certain level of blunt indifference. You deal with it, you move past it, and you don't look back.
Of course they could be done, but one has to ask: what exactly would be the motivation for doing them?
Even today, I find myself grinding through tasks that are utterly mindless and entirely beneath my interests. I do it simply because I know exactly what my hourly rate is for such drudgery. If I spend my afternoon disinterestedly scanning through some dusty old Hemingway manuscript or performing the soul-crushing task of balancing accounts deep into the red, I’m not getting paid a dime. Money only flows when the clock is running on billable work.
If we are still seeing the fallout in the form of a general decline in reading habits, a growing disdain for the literary classics, or a widespread allergy to mathematics, then the bottom line is clear: the net result is a failure.
I recall an instance during a standardized testing session where a student sat there, completely blanking on a basic math problem intended for elementary schoolers. It wasn't a matter of cognitive deficiency or a lack of innate mathematical talent; if that individual had never stepped foot in a math classroom in their life, they likely would have solved it without a second thought. Instead, the only takeaway from years of schooling was the crushing conviction that math is an insurmountable mountain and that they simply aren't "math people." That is the cumulative, disastrous result of spending several hours a week in a classroom for twelve consecutive years. It’s nothing short of a systemic failure.For me, that was a genuine hurdle. And I’m not talking specifically about deciphering archaic American literature; I mean the broader challenge of reading books in a foreign language. It didn't matter if the material was riveting or incredibly dull, or whether it was a massive tome or a slim volume—the struggle remained the same.
Every single experience has served as a lesson, helping me expand my vocabulary and familiarize myself with just about everything under the sun. Some of that knowledge proves more useful today than others, but I certainly don't feel cheated for having spent hours hunched over books with a dictionary by my side. On the contrary, it was worth every second.
I find myself reaching for a dictionary quite frequently, but if the constant interruptions start to derail my flow, I simply pack it in. There’s no point in struggling through it. That’s exactly why I don't bother reading anything in Greek.
That is precisely why I tend to ignore footnotes and endnotes—with the notable exception of Terry Pratchett’s. To any author or editor out there listening: if your idea of good pacing is interrupting my flow thirteen times per page, you might as well go jump in a lake. Do you want me to actually read your book, or are you just trying to force me to read your damn footnotes?
Linda Price5 said:So, why is everyone forced into the exact same curriculum? It makes zero sense. Why should an aspiring mechanic or a carpenter be stuck reading classic literature or copying down essays just to avoid failing out of school? Why is anyone required to sit through a high-level calculus lecture when they have absolutely no intention of ever using it? If someone actually develops a genuine interest in a subject later in life, they can easily pick up a book, sign up for a specialized certification course, or simply hire a private tutor. The current system is fundamentally inefficient.Sometimes, you just have to stop overthinking, cut through the nonsense, and handle things with a certain level of blunt indifference. You deal with it, you move past it, and you don't look back.
Of course they could be done, but one has to ask: what exactly would be the motivation for doing them?
Even today, I find myself grinding through tasks that are utterly mindless and entirely beneath my interests. I do it simply because I know exactly what my hourly rate is for such drudgery. If I spend my afternoon disinterestedly scanning through some dusty old Hemingway manuscript or performing the soul-crushing task of balancing accounts deep into the red, I’m not getting paid a dime. Money only flows when the clock is running on billable work.
If we are still seeing the fallout in the form of a general decline in reading habits, a growing disdain for the literary classics, or a widespread allergy to mathematics, then the bottom line is clear: the net result is a failure.
I recall an instance during a standardized testing session where a student sat there, completely blanking on a basic math problem intended for elementary schoolers. It wasn't a matter of cognitive deficiency or a lack of innate mathematical talent; if that individual had never stepped foot in a math classroom in their life, they likely would have solved it without a second thought. Instead, the only takeaway from years of schooling was the crushing conviction that math is an insurmountable mountain and that they simply aren't "math people." That is the cumulative, disastrous result of spending several hours a week in a classroom for twelve consecutive years. It’s nothing short of a systemic failure.For me, that was a genuine hurdle. And I’m not talking specifically about deciphering archaic American literature; I mean the broader challenge of reading books in a foreign language. It didn't matter if the material was riveting or incredibly dull, or whether it was a massive tome or a slim volume—the struggle remained the same.
Every single experience has served as a lesson, helping me expand my vocabulary and familiarize myself with just about everything under the sun. Some of that knowledge proves more useful today than others, but I certainly don't feel cheated for having spent hours hunched over books with a dictionary by my side. On the contrary, it was worth every second.
I find myself reaching for a dictionary quite frequently, but if the constant interruptions start to derail my flow, I simply pack it in. There’s no point in struggling through it. That’s exactly why I don't bother reading anything in Greek.
That is precisely why I tend to ignore footnotes and endnotes—with the notable exception of Terry Pratchett’s. To any author or editor out there listening: if your idea of good pacing is interrupting my flow thirteen times per page, you might as well go jump in a lake. Do you want me to actually read your book, or are you just trying to force me to read your damn footnotes?
If there are side effects—like people losing interest in reading altogether, or avoiding the classics, or developing a total phobia of math—then the whole outcome ends up being negative.
I remember this one time at an SAT prep center where this person was just staring blankly at a basic middle school math problem, and it was like the explanations were just bouncing right off them. It wasn't because they lacked the brains or the talent, honestly. If they hadn't been forced into math classes all those years, they probably would've figured it out fine. But instead, all they learned from math class was that math is hard and that they're just bad at it. That’s a totally negative result after spending hours every week on it for twelve years. It's just... it's awful.
