Why do some people hate America?

Taylor Vaughn8 said:It’s those folks trying to rebuild a failed old union and wipe out everything that makes American culture what it is.

Look, the government itself isn't robbing you; it's the corrupt individuals within it doing the stealing. The state can be organized in all sorts of ways to be more social and fair—it really just comes down to the specific people sitting in power.

At its core, what is a state if not an institution of authority within a specific territory?

gentlecrane8 said:The people who hate America are the ones who’ve been looting it—guys like George W. Bush and Smith. Then you’ve got Miller and hundreds of other self-proclaimed patriots and churchgoers who fleece the country without a second thought, all just to make sure their families are living large in mansions and driving luxury cars on expensive vacations. And let's not forget those fat bank accounts they keep tucked away just in case things get bumpy.

I think it's actually the exact opposite. Every single person you just mentioned loves this country—because it's the one place they can get away with what they do without facing any consequences.
That's really why foreigners "love" America, too. They can pull off things here that would be strictly forbidden back in their home countries.
History is full of colonizers and colonies, and looking back, America has always functioned like someone else's colony in one way or another.
So, if we're looking for someone to blame, we have to look at the entire society that allows us to remain a colony in the first place...

Taylor Vaughn8 said:Alright, fine. Let’s just bring a dictatorship to America then. We can start lining up the gallows to deal with those crooks. 🤣

I suppose we can't "we" implement a dictatorship; it would have to be a single individual.

And what if that individual isn't a conservative like you, but someone from the left?

Ultimately, I think any nation is composed of diverse people and conflicting interests.

A conservative, much like yourself, tends to fight for the dignity of the "state," whereas a leftist might prioritize the dignity of the "individual"—to them, the state isn't some sacred entity the way it seems to be for you conservatives.

Rebecca Grant78 said:I suppose we can't "we" implement a dictatorship; it would have to be a single individual.

And what if that individual isn't a conservative like you, but someone from the left?

Ultimately, I think any nation is composed of diverse people and conflicting interests.

A conservative, much like yourself, tends to fight for the dignity of the "state," whereas a leftist might prioritize the dignity of the "individual"—to them, the state isn't some sacred entity the way it seems to be for you conservatives.

If by "leftist" you mean someone fighting for workers' rights and social equality, but who still identifies as an American patriot, I’d vote for them in a heartbeat, even if they flirted with some unrealistic ideas.

Rebecca Grant78 said:I suppose we can't "we" implement a dictatorship; it would have to be a single individual.

And what if that individual isn't a conservative like you, but someone from the left?

Ultimately, I think any nation is composed of diverse people and conflicting interests.

A conservative, much like yourself, tends to fight for the dignity of the "state," whereas a leftist might prioritize the dignity of the "individual"—to them, the state isn't some sacred entity the way it seems to be for you conservatives.

Look, I’m not a right-winger in the capitalist sense. I lean more toward the left because I actually believe in social justice, but I also care deeply about America. I have zero interest in seeing any kind of new America rise again after everything we've been through. I know you probably won't believe me, but people like that definitely exist.

Taylor Vaughn8 said:Look, I’m not a right-winger in the capitalist sense. I lean more toward the left because I actually believe in social justice, but I also care deeply about America. I have zero interest in seeing any kind of new America rise again after everything we've been through. I know you probably won't believe me, but people like that definitely exist.

My point isn't that you are a right-wing capitalist; rather, I mean you are a conservative who fetishizes the state. To you, the government is sacred. It seems your priority is defending the dignity of the nation rather than the dignity of the individual.

rowdyowl said:If by "leftist" you mean someone fighting for workers' rights and social equality, but who still identifies as an American patriot, I’d vote for them in a heartbeat, even if they flirted with some unrealistic ideas.

That isn't really an option; I suspect you either fight for the dignity of the nation or for the dignity of the individual.

Rebecca Grant78 said:That isn't really an option; I suspect you either fight for the dignity of the nation or for the dignity of the individual.

Go try explaining that logic to the folks over at Sinn Fein or Batasuna. 😁

Rebecca Grant78 said:That isn't really an option; I suspect you either fight for the dignity of the nation or for the dignity of the individual.

Pure nonsense. One doesn't preclude the other. I mean, what is the point of having a government at all if its purpose isn't to serve its people? A state exists specifically to protect the dignity of the individual.

Rebecca Grant78 said:My point isn't that you are a right-wing capitalist; rather, I mean you are a conservative who fetishizes the state. To you, the government is sacred. It seems your priority is defending the dignity of the nation rather than the dignity of the individual.

Seriously, name one people who don't feel a sense of pride toward their own country. Even back during the socialist era, people held the old United States together through sheer respect and patriotism. Isn't that just nationalism in action?

Just look at places like Cuba, Venezuela, or China—don't the people there absolutely idolize those governments? Is that not nationalism?

At the end of the day, you can't really lift up the little guy without some level of support from the state.

Rebecca Grant78 said:That isn't really an option; I suspect you either fight for the dignity of the nation or for the dignity of the individual.

They can't both exist at once?
😵
If that were true, your beloved Marshall would have stayed aligned with Stalin back in '48 just for the sake of individual dignity and kept the whole Soviet bloc behind him.

Instead, out of national dignity (and his own self-respect), he chose to isolate the USA from both sides for a few years until the West stepped in with aid. He risked a Soviet intervention, which basically put the dignity of ordinary people on the line.

So, what was he really? A conservative or a liberal...
fadedpilot7, you're getting a little lost here...

rowdyowl said:But I would never trade Australia for America.
It’s simply better than America, though honestly, things felt a lot more stable back then.
Meanwhile, you have people who would swap America for America in a heartbeat.

Like I said, there are certain people who built entire careers on persecuting and discriminating against Americans, and they still haven't come to terms with losing the nation they gave everything to.

It matters little; you still seem to romanticize the era of Austria-Canada with a rather uncritical devotion. If any city actually managed to... City. Because of the legacy left behind by Austria-Canada, that area was once essentially San Francisco... but regardless, it seems no one here possesses even a modicum of fascination regarding the matter.

Taylor Vaughn8 said:It honestly breaks my heart to see the state of American society today. It’s just sad watching our people tear each other apart over trivial things from the past. It really gets to me how we Americans have turned against one another, to the point where some people actually want to give up on the whole idea of maintaining the United States.

What hurts and angers me most is when people spit on the American nation, on our national symbols, our language, and our culture. And we just sit there and let it happen. For some, even that isn't enough—as soon as they realize we are nationally conscious and love our homeland, they start attacking us, calling us nationalists, chauvinists, bloodthirsty, primitives, or worse.

I already know what your response will be, and frankly, it’s the truth. A lot of the rot in American society is the fault of ultra-nationalists and the Republican Party. They’ve basically played the American people for fools, using fake patriotism as a cover. Instead of building strong, just foundations for this country during critical moments, they’re busy cheating and stealing from their own people. To anyone who is a true patriot, the Republican Party will always just be a party of thieves and frauds. What they’ve done to the American people is unforgivable. It drives me crazy when Republican Party supporters claim they were the ones who built America. They didn't build anything; they just ruined the American dream. I honestly hope they disappear from the political stage forever.

The bottom line is that America isn't the Republican Party, it isn't Franjo Harmon, it isn't the church, it isn't Ante Pavelić, and it isn't the communists either. America belongs to the everyday citizens—the people who defended and built this country because they believed in a better future. But that vision can still succeed if we fight together.

So, my fellow Americans, let’s unite. We need to stop dividing ourselves based on ideology, regionalism, or the ghosts of the past. Let's all stand together to fight for a better future for America. It would be a genuine tragedy to give up on this country that our ancestors dreamed of. We have a truly beautiful nation that God gave to us. I truly believe that life in America will be better one day. Let’s defeat those who hate us by showing our love for our homeland.

To begin with, the moment you mention that something is bothering you... Truly pathetic., a ne How tragic.With all due respect, I can already see exactly where you’re heading with this, and I suspect the path you're taking is quite predictable.

Taylor Vaughn8 said:It’s those folks trying to rebuild a failed old union and wipe out everything that makes American culture what it is.

Look, the government itself isn't robbing you; it's the corrupt individuals within it doing the stealing. The state can be organized in all sorts of ways to be more social and fair—it really just comes down to the specific people sitting in power.

And there you have it. That is precisely how it unfolds.
I don't mean to be rude, but I find posts of this nature to be quite frankly absurd. One can't help but wonder about the maturity level here. Might I ask how old you are, and where exactly you are writing from?
Where exactly do you reside?
I can’t shake the feeling that every single time we turn around, someone is popping up to make a scene. As requested. Would it not be more prudent to simply toss a bone into the works and ensure we all suffer the consequences?
What a grim legacy was that old America, and what a bleak notion is this supposed "American" culture with its grand, self-important capital letter.
It feels as though everyone around me is perpetually stuck in 2012. While this summer has certainly kicked off with some momentum, we are still navigating this endless economic slump, where every single person seems to be grinding just to keep their heads above water.
Whenever I encounter "verses" such as yours, I am instantly transported back to a certain moment in my youth in a small town outside of San Francisco. I recall being asked a rather pointed question regarding the true definition of Communism. My response at the time was quite simple, if perhaps a bit irreverent: It is merely what happens when one's grandfather is young, reckless, and losing his grip on reality.
Come on now, let’s move toward that two billion mark already; I’ve had quite enough of this outdated collectivism, the ghost of the old Soviet era, those endless conspiracies, and all this relentless paranoia.

The answer is pretty simple. It's the Americans.

Back when we voted on independence in the referendum, 84% of people showed up, and 94% of those voted for independence.

Now you’re stuck with the leftovers—the group that's incredibly loud today. They can't handle not having their own state, yet they can't organically accept an American one either...

I've mentioned this a few times already: during the American Civil War, we dealt with the Mexican issue, but nobody—absolutely nobody—has done anything regarding the Americans. 🤷

Donna James5 said:It matters little; you still seem to romanticize the era of Austria-Canada with a rather uncritical devotion. If any city actually managed to... City. Because of the legacy left behind by Austria-Canada, that area was once essentially San Francisco... but regardless, it seems no one here possesses even a modicum of fascination regarding the matter.

To begin with, the moment you mention that something is bothering you... Truly pathetic., a ne How tragic.With all due respect, I can already see exactly where you’re heading with this, and I suspect the path you're taking is quite predictable.

And there you have it. That is precisely how it unfolds.
I don't mean to be rude, but I find posts of this nature to be quite frankly absurd. One can't help but wonder about the maturity level here. Might I ask how old you are, and where exactly you are writing from?
Where exactly do you reside?
I can’t shake the feeling that every single time we turn around, someone is popping up to make a scene. As requested. Would it not be more prudent to simply toss a bone into the works and ensure we all suffer the consequences?
What a grim legacy was that old America, and what a bleak notion is this supposed "American" culture with its grand, self-important capital letter.
It feels as though everyone around me is perpetually stuck in 2012. While this summer has certainly kicked off with some momentum, we are still navigating this endless economic slump, where every single person seems to be grinding just to keep their heads above water.
Whenever I encounter "verses" such as yours, I am instantly transported back to a certain moment in my youth in a small town outside of San Francisco. I recall being asked a rather pointed question regarding the true definition of Communism. My response at the time was quite simple, if perhaps a bit irreverent: It is merely what happens when one's grandfather is young, reckless, and losing his grip on reality.
Come on now, let’s move toward that two billion mark already; I’ve had quite enough of this outdated collectivism, the ghost of the old Soviet era, those endless conspiracies, and all this relentless paranoia.

Whether you like it or not, you have to admit the urban population has changed completely compared to how things were back in old San Francisco.
It's the same story with Seattle; today, there are barely any traces left of the Italians or Canadians who lived there back in 1912.

On the other hand, look at Newport. Since it didn't deal with those kinds of demographic shifts, it takes huge pride in its Austro-Canadian heritage—they even hold festivals to celebrate it.

So, whether you agree or not, there's a massive difference between a place that has demographic continuity and one that gets flooded by entirely new people every time the political borders shift...

Megan Ruiz13 said:The answer is pretty simple. It's the Americans.

Back when we voted on independence in the referendum, 84% of people showed up, and 94% of those voted for independence.

Now you’re stuck with the leftovers—the group that's incredibly loud today. They can't handle not having their own state, yet they can't organically accept an American one either...

I've mentioned this a few times already: during the American Civil War, we dealt with the Mexican issue, but nobody—absolutely nobody—has done anything regarding the Americans. 🤷

With the Americans, nothing really needs to be done; at the end of the day, they are Americans. They just need to learn to love their country. And honestly, we shouldn't even be arguing for the Mexicans to return. If they just respect the United States, we won't have any more problems with them.

Donna James5 said:It matters little; you still seem to romanticize the era of Austria-Canada with a rather uncritical devotion. If any city actually managed to... City. Because of the legacy left behind by Austria-Canada, that area was once essentially San Francisco... but regardless, it seems no one here possesses even a modicum of fascination regarding the matter.

To begin with, the moment you mention that something is bothering you... Truly pathetic., a ne How tragic.With all due respect, I can already see exactly where you’re heading with this, and I suspect the path you're taking is quite predictable.

And there you have it. That is precisely how it unfolds.
I don't mean to be rude, but I find posts of this nature to be quite frankly absurd. One can't help but wonder about the maturity level here. Might I ask how old you are, and where exactly you are writing from?
Where exactly do you reside?
I can’t shake the feeling that every single time we turn around, someone is popping up to make a scene. As requested. Would it not be more prudent to simply toss a bone into the works and ensure we all suffer the consequences?
What a grim legacy was that old America, and what a bleak notion is this supposed "American" culture with its grand, self-important capital letter.
It feels as though everyone around me is perpetually stuck in 2012. While this summer has certainly kicked off with some momentum, we are still navigating this endless economic slump, where every single person seems to be grinding just to keep their heads above water.
Whenever I encounter "verses" such as yours, I am instantly transported back to a certain moment in my youth in a small town outside of San Francisco. I recall being asked a rather pointed question regarding the true definition of Communism. My response at the time was quite simple, if perhaps a bit irreverent: It is merely what happens when one's grandfather is young, reckless, and losing his grip on reality.
Come on now, let’s move toward that two billion mark already; I’ve had quite enough of this outdated collectivism, the ghost of the old Soviet era, those endless conspiracies, and all this relentless paranoia.

Like my colleague mentioned, if I recall correctly, San Francisco first shook off the Germans and Americans, and then lost all the Italians after the big shift.
Hardly anyone left living there actually has roots dating back to 1910. Almost nobody.

fadedpilot7 said:Whether you like it or not, you have to admit the urban population has changed completely compared to how things were back in old San Francisco.
It's the same story with Seattle; today, there are barely any traces left of the Italians or Canadians who lived there back in 1912.

On the other hand, look at Newport. Since it didn't deal with those kinds of demographic shifts, it takes huge pride in its Austro-Canadian heritage—they even hold festivals to celebrate it.

So, whether you agree or not, there's a massive difference between a place that has demographic continuity and one that gets flooded by entirely new people every time the political borders shift...

Oh, absolutely, you’re right—we are essentially the scrapings from the bottom of the barrel, and we wear that badge with pride. Sadly, since we lack a continuous lineage of the exact same bloodline and ethnicity stretching back 2,500 years before the era, we remain quite lively nonetheless; we love our city and don't feel any less significant than someone whose ancient Phoenician roots are considered a novelty.
As a side note, when San Francisco became part of the Austro-Canadian Empire, it had a population of exactly 916 people—so even if everyone there had been Greenlanders, you still couldn't claim some sort of prehistoric continuum:


Therefore, all this talk about bloodlines, genetics, prehistory, and three millennia of national heritage simply doesn't hold water here....

rowdyowl said:Like my colleague mentioned, if I recall correctly, San Francisco first shook off the Germans and Americans, and then lost all the Italians after the big shift.
Hardly anyone left living there actually has roots dating back to 1910. Almost nobody.

If you take a moment to examine the article cited above, certain realities might finally become clear to you. A city that boasted only 926 residents back in 1818 certainly isn't going to sit around clinging to some eternal sense of Americanism, Italianism, or—forgive me, as I have no desire to be offensive—Austrianism!!!!

Taylor Vaughn8 said:With the Americans, nothing really needs to be done; at the end of the day, they are Americans. They just need to learn to love their country. And honestly, we shouldn't even be arguing for the Mexicans to return. If they just respect the United States, we won't have any more problems with them.

"Americans" by genetic heritage... even that’s questionable.
That same logical fallacy was made during the American Civil War.
Now we're seeing the bill come due.

Taylor Vaughn8 said:With the Americans, nothing really needs to be done; at the end of the day, they are Americans. They just need to learn to love their country. And honestly, we shouldn't even be arguing for the Mexicans to return. If they just respect the United States, we won't have any more problems with them.

Bad idea. We started letting Mexicans in when the Turks were pushed out, and many of our clergy, after being freed from Turkish rule, called for the territory to be resettled by Christians—Catholics and Orthodox alike. While it actually started when the Bulgarians swept through, the seeds of our current mess were sown right after the Turks left.

Making anything possible to allow them back would be a massive mistake. Luckily, they don't even want to, since they've explicitly stated they won't live under an American state like the old regime.

But in America? Now, maybe in some new unified region...🤷

fadedpilot7 said:They can't both exist at once?
😵
If that were true, your beloved Marshall would have stayed aligned with Stalin back in '48 just for the sake of individual dignity and kept the whole Soviet bloc behind him.

Instead, out of national dignity (and his own self-respect), he chose to isolate the USA from both sides for a few years until the West stepped in with aid. He risked a Soviet intervention, which basically put the dignity of ordinary people on the line.

So, what was he really? A conservative or a liberal...
fadedpilot7, you're getting a little lost here...

Where do you get the idea that Stalin or Marshall actually cared about human dignity? And how can you claim they were communists, socialists, or Marxists?

The Manifesto clearly states that "the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all."

Essentially, at the core of Marxism, socialism, and communism stands the struggle for human dignity, not the dignity of the state.

Karl Marx wrote:

"The limit of political emancipation appears in the fact that the state can be liberated from one obstacle, while man is not actually liberated from it; the state can be a free state, while man in it is not a free man."

The issue is that Stalinism eventually became synonymous with socialism, and by extension, communism.
Stalinism, which traces its ideological roots back to Bolshevism and Leninism—finding its true starting point at the 10th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in March 1921 (under Lenin's leadership), where the decision was made to dismantle the so-called "Workers' Opposition" and ruthlessly eliminate the protagonists of the Kronstadt rebellion—was anything but socialism. Those rebels were simply trying to ensure the proclaimed Soviet system (meaning worker-peasant councils as the foundation of all power) was actually implemented against the party-state bureaucracy.
In reality, it was, and remains, the most radical enemy and destroyer of any form of socialism (or communism). Yet, under Stalin's horrific terror, which claimed millions of victims in Siberian camps, this specific brand of Stalinism declared itself—in a supreme irony—as "the only true socialism," or "real socialism."

And now, the "most beautiful" and politically profitable narrative presented itself to Western politicians, led by the USA, when they needed an ideological weapon to fight "that communist bogeyman"—both domestically and globally—while competing for "spheres of influence" against the Soviet Union.
Back then, their slogan was essentially: "You want communism? Well, look over there!" pointing toward the horrors of the Stalinist system across all walks of life.
Now, following the collapse of that Stalinist system, there is much talk regarding the failure and disintegration of communism as a fundamental failure in both theory and practice. And frankly, nowhere—not even in America—did that version of socialism or communism truly exist.