Student-teacher dynamics vs. parent-teacher dynamics

Paul Wilson72 said:Of course this is an issue, especially when we are talking about computer science and IT-related subjects. I don't want to offend those who graduated from education programs, but despite having a degree in information technology, many of them lack any real practical connection to the field. You can see it immediately in how they handle basic software like Microsoft Office, let alone teaching complex concepts in high school. On the other hand, look at the motivation levels. A computer science teacher or a tech instructor isn't given the same incentive compared to other professors, even though they have to stay current with constant updates. For them, learning never stops; you can't just walk into a classroom and coast until retirement. Compare that to math, physics, or English. In those subjects, the core curriculum hasn't fundamentally shifted in decades—not even centuries. Books exist in every possible format, and lesson plans are readily available whenever needed. Tech is a different beast entirely.
Buying computers usually just means more work on your plate. You have to deal with constant troubleshooting, system maintenance, and endless technical support. It’s a lot of extra labor that nobody actually wants to pay for, yet everyone expects you to just handle it.
The bottom line here comes down to market value. Most tech professionals are going to choose private sector roles where they actually get paid what they’re worth, rather than taking positions in public schools where their skills are constantly undervalued. As the national economy improves, this gap is only going to widen because nobody with this specific skillset wants to work in a classroom. We shouldn't be shocked when we find ourselves in a situation where computer science is being taught by someone who doesn't even understand how a basic desktop functions. So, let me ask you: how much are you actually willing to pay for someone who truly knows what they're doing?

Actually, @buditedobro, I couldn't agree more. Signed. 🙏

I'd argue the responsibility lies with the university that issued the degree. A diploma should be a guarantee that the graduate actually has the expertise required to teach in a classroom. Otherwise, what's the point of higher education?

Hey everyone! Just popping in to say hi. Hope you're all having an awesome day so far! kaže:
So, what exactly is a teacher supposed to do here? In your opinion, should they just step in and play the role of the missing parent for every single one of those thirty kids in the class? I mean, if you factor in five or six grades, that’s a massive amount of emotional heavy lifting. It’s just not realistic.🤷
How do you actually give a kid a top-tier education and a solid upbringing while still making sure they feel all that love and attention you just can't squeeze in when life gets crazy? It’s a tough balance, right? Between the 9-to-5 grind and everything else, sometimes it feels like you're running on empty. I remember back when I was working those long shifts in Chicago, I always felt like I was missing out on the little moments, even though I was doing it all for them. It's a constant tug-of-war between being there physically and providing the best future possible. Anyone else feeling that struggle?
That’s exactly the kind of system you're talking about—honestly, don't sweat it. Just move on to the next one.😉
I’ve been giving it my all, really, but I just can't—and honestly, maybe I shouldn't even try to—replace a parent for a kid in every single way. It’s just not how it works.
Honestly, I’d be pretty shocked at how much my parents expect from me. It’s wild. Like, they have this whole vision for my life already mapped out. My mom was even hinting at certain career paths last Thanksgiving, which—let's be real—is a lot of pressure when you're just trying to figure things out yourself!😉

Look, teachers aren't there to play parent. Period. But man, a little more respect and some actual empathy for what they're dealing with wouldn't hurt—and maybe a little less of that "woe is me" victim mentality too. Honestly? Difficult parents have always been around, just like every other job has its headaches. Teaching isn't special in that regard; it's got its own set of messy issues, just like being a mechanic or an accountant. It’s pretty simple, really: either you accept that every profession has its frustrating sides, or you look into a career change. It's all the same everywhere else. 🤷

Jason Ortiz5 said:

Hey everyone! Just popping in to say hi. Hope you're all having an awesome day so far! kaže:
So, what exactly is a teacher supposed to do here? In your opinion, should they just step in and play the role of the missing parent for every single one of those thirty kids in the class? I mean, if you factor in five or six grades, that’s a massive amount of emotional heavy lifting. It’s just not realistic.🤷
How do you actually give a kid a top-tier education and a solid upbringing while still making sure they feel all that love and attention you just can't squeeze in when life gets crazy? It’s a tough balance, right? Between the 9-to-5 grind and everything else, sometimes it feels like you're running on empty. I remember back when I was working those long shifts in Chicago, I always felt like I was missing out on the little moments, even though I was doing it all for them. It's a constant tug-of-war between being there physically and providing the best future possible. Anyone else feeling that struggle?
That’s exactly the kind of system you're talking about—honestly, don't sweat it. Just move on to the next one.😉
I’ve been giving it my all, really, but I just can't—and honestly, maybe I shouldn't even try to—replace a parent for a kid in every single way. It’s just not how it works.
Honestly, I’d be pretty shocked at how much my parents expect from me. It’s wild. Like, they have this whole vision for my life already mapped out. My mom was even hinting at certain career paths last Thanksgiving, which—let's be real—is a lot of pressure when you're just trying to figure things out yourself!😉

Look, teachers aren't there to play parent. Period. But man, a little more respect and some actual empathy for what they're dealing with wouldn't hurt—and maybe a little less of that "woe is me" victim mentality too. Honestly? Difficult parents have always been around, just like every other job has its headaches. Teaching isn't special in that regard; it's got its own set of messy issues, just like being a mechanic or an accountant. It’s pretty simple, really: either you accept that every profession has its frustrating sides, or you look into a career change. It's all the same everywhere else. 🤷

I guess it wouldn't hurt if parents showed a bit more respect too, instead of leaning into those broad generalizations, you know? Like the whole "teachers only work three hours a day for nine months out of the year" type of thing. 🙂 🙄
Of course, every single job has its ups and downs, and nobody is disputing that, but it feels to me like a sort of public shaming is most prevalent in education and healthcare. I don't really notice people collectively tearing down corporate managers, retail workers, hairstylists, or even sanitation workers in quite that same way...☕

I honestly feel like this kind of public shaming happens most often in schools and healthcare. I don't really see people mass-attacking Managers, retail workers, hairstylists, or even sanitation crews in the same way...☕

It’s pretty easy to see why, though. People are always going to be most critical about the things they’re most sensitive about—and for most of us, that’s health and our kids. If you decide to go into those fields, you have to realize you’ll be dealing with what people value most in life. You're basically living under a microscope. If you aren't ready for that constant scrutiny, maybe find a different career path. (Not saying that to be mean! Just saying some people just aren't wired for that kind of pressure.)

And if you think other jobs don't get criticized, just look around. Managers get ripped apart all the time; it's just that half of them couldn't care less what people think. And don't even get me started on the legendary grumpy cashiers at the grocery store or corrupt judges... it goes on forever. They just don't spend their time whining about it. 🤷

Man, I just scrolled through some of the posts above. Some solid points in there, but honestly, it’s a mixed bag. You can tell exactly who actually knows what they're talking about and who’s just noise. I could probably pinpoint exactly who is an educator versus just a parent, and I’d bet I could guess the age of their kid, too. But I won't play guessing games. I'll just weigh in from a parent's perspective—dealing with elementary and high school. First off, let me try to debunk this myth that teachers are working way more hours than they're actually teaching.
Look, lesson plans (aside from the rookies just starting out) get recycled year after year. Some teachers don't even bother updating them to reflect the real world; they just hand down stuff that isn't even relevant anymore.
For example:
A couple of years back, in a 4th-grade social studies class, we did a unit on "the community where I live."
We're talking about Indianapolis. After school, I grabbed my kid's notebook to see what they actually wrote down that day.
Local industry:
- Leather tannery
- Footwear manufacture
- Niveta
- Mobilia
- Blacksmith
- IPK
- Procter & Gamble
- Silk Mill
- Litokarton
...
I won't list the rest, because it was just a long list of dead or dying industries in Indianapolis.
Out of all that, only Procter & Gamble, Niveta, and IPK are actually still operating. The teacher was listing the local economy as it stood when she was a college student. It makes me wonder: how much prep work is she actually doing, or is she just using lesson plans from twenty years ago? What are we even talking about here?
Second example:
High school—Computer Science class.
Learning programming languages and calculating logic? For what? What’s the point? Is it only because that's what the teacher studied 15 years ago? It's pure nonsense. And the kicker? The kid doesn't even know basic computer concepts. When I asked them to name input or output devices, or explain the difference between software and hardware... it was a struggle. Don't even get me started on the lack of skills with programs like PowerPoint or Word. They have zero clue what Excel is for or how useful it actually is.
So, there you go regarding teacher prep and whether they actually update their curriculum to keep up with technology and the modern world.
As for the whole "upbringing" debate in schools, let's be clear: our school system is officially defined as "developmental and educational." Development comes first; education comes second. Once the system is rebranded as strictly "educational," then sure, I'll accept the idea that teachers shouldn't have to deal with behavioral upbringing. But by choosing this career, you accepted that you'd be working in developmental-educational institutions. Stick to the job description.
Now, a little about us parents.
We're a diverse bunch. We vary in education levels, social status, and whether we're employed or not. If I really broke it down, I'd include the healthy and the sick, the alcoholics, the hypochondriacs, the PTSD sufferers, the optimists, and the pessimists. There are parents who know they're struggling and seek professional help, and there are those who refuse to admit they have no idea what they're doing, so they just keep making mistakes in how they raise their kids. That's why institutions exist—specifically tasked, I emphasize *tasked*, with correcting developmental issues. First, there's the school (the support services), which is supposed to recognize and diagnose the problem. They should try to fix it, and if they can't handle it in-house, they are legally required to refer the matter to the agencies that actually have the authority to solve these issues.
The school isn't some sacred, untouchable institution where you walk in after graduation and clock in for 40 years without anyone asking questions or holding you accountable. You aren't exempt from continuing your education, you don't get to stop being responsible, and heaven forbid someone actually evaluates your performance.
Let’s get real here for a second. We need some actual self-reflection from everyone involved—parents, teachers, school administrators, the whole lot of us.
IN OUR SCHOOLS, WE ARE OBSESSED WITH STUFFING KIDS FULL OF FACTS, BUT WE ARE COMPLETELY NEGLECTING CHARACTER BUILDING. I think we’re failing miserably, and frankly, it’s a disaster.

Jessica Howard5 said:Man, I just scrolled through some of the posts above. Some solid points in there, but honestly, it’s a mixed bag. You can tell exactly who actually knows what they're talking about and who’s just noise. I could probably pinpoint exactly who is an educator versus just a parent, and I’d bet I could guess the age of their kid, too. But I won't play guessing games. I'll just weigh in from a parent's perspective—dealing with elementary and high school. First off, let me try to debunk this myth that teachers are working way more hours than they're actually teaching.
Look, lesson plans (aside from the rookies just starting out) get recycled year after year. Some teachers don't even bother updating them to reflect the real world; they just hand down stuff that isn't even relevant anymore.
For example:
A couple of years back, in a 4th-grade social studies class, we did a unit on "the community where I live."
We're talking about Indianapolis. After school, I grabbed my kid's notebook to see what they actually wrote down that day.
Local industry:
- Leather tannery
- Footwear manufacture
- Niveta
- Mobilia
- Blacksmith
- IPK
- Procter & Gamble
- Silk Mill
- Litokarton
...
I won't list the rest, because it was just a long list of dead or dying industries in Indianapolis.
Out of all that, only Procter & Gamble, Niveta, and IPK are actually still operating. The teacher was listing the local economy as it stood when she was a college student. It makes me wonder: how much prep work is she actually doing, or is she just using lesson plans from twenty years ago? What are we even talking about here?
Second example:
High school—Computer Science class.
Learning programming languages and calculating logic? For what? What’s the point? Is it only because that's what the teacher studied 15 years ago? It's pure nonsense. And the kicker? The kid doesn't even know basic computer concepts. When I asked them to name input or output devices, or explain the difference between software and hardware... it was a struggle. Don't even get me started on the lack of skills with programs like PowerPoint or Word. They have zero clue what Excel is for or how useful it actually is.
So, there you go regarding teacher prep and whether they actually update their curriculum to keep up with technology and the modern world.
As for the whole "upbringing" debate in schools, let's be clear: our school system is officially defined as "developmental and educational." Development comes first; education comes second. Once the system is rebranded as strictly "educational," then sure, I'll accept the idea that teachers shouldn't have to deal with behavioral upbringing. But by choosing this career, you accepted that you'd be working in developmental-educational institutions. Stick to the job description.
Now, a little about us parents.
We're a diverse bunch. We vary in education levels, social status, and whether we're employed or not. If I really broke it down, I'd include the healthy and the sick, the alcoholics, the hypochondriacs, the PTSD sufferers, the optimists, and the pessimists. There are parents who know they're struggling and seek professional help, and there are those who refuse to admit they have no idea what they're doing, so they just keep making mistakes in how they raise their kids. That's why institutions exist—specifically tasked, I emphasize *tasked*, with correcting developmental issues. First, there's the school (the support services), which is supposed to recognize and diagnose the problem. They should try to fix it, and if they can't handle it in-house, they are legally required to refer the matter to the agencies that actually have the authority to solve these issues.
The school isn't some sacred, untouchable institution where you walk in after graduation and clock in for 40 years without anyone asking questions or holding you accountable. You aren't exempt from continuing your education, you don't get to stop being responsible, and heaven forbid someone actually evaluates your performance.
Let’s get real here for a second. We need some actual self-reflection from everyone involved—parents, teachers, school administrators, the whole lot of us.
IN OUR SCHOOLS, WE ARE OBSESSED WITH STUFFING KIDS FULL OF FACTS, BUT WE ARE COMPLETELY NEGLECTING CHARACTER BUILDING. I think we’re failing miserably, and frankly, it’s a disaster.

I have no idea what exactly you think you are "debunking" or "demystifying," but you are frankly talking nonsense. My mother is an elementary school teacher—she teaches English—and whether you believe it or not, she works far more than her contracted hours. Lately, that workload has ballooned to such an extent that it’s becoming a genuine grievance for me; I can barely find time to help watch my own child because she is constantly bogged down by extra duties. Between Department of Education mandates requiring endless meetings every week or two, and the fact that old lesson plans are no longer accepted—requiring brand-new prep for every single period—the burden is immense. Add to that the constant cycle of changing textbooks, grading tests, reviewing essays, and managing homework, not to mention dealing with parents showing up at unpredictable times. For instance, a father might storm in because he’s worked up over his kid getting a C when he thought they deserved an A. Then there are the mandatory "professional development" sessions scheduled during holidays; people assume teachers have too much free time, when in reality, those are just more work hours. I won't list everything, as it would be exhaustive, but please, think twice before making these claims, as it is clear you are out of the loop.

And regarding the point about character building: the emphasis is shifting because primary upbringing happens at home, not in a classroom. Ultimately, parents are the ones responsible for raising their children; they shouldn't simply outsource the job and then blame the school system the moment things go sideways.☕

copperheron18 said:I have no idea what exactly you think you are "debunking" or "demystifying," but you are frankly talking nonsense. My mother is an elementary school teacher—she teaches English—and whether you believe it or not, she works far more than her contracted hours. Lately, that workload has ballooned to such an extent that it’s becoming a genuine grievance for me; I can barely find time to help watch my own child because she is constantly bogged down by extra duties. Between Department of Education mandates requiring endless meetings every week or two, and the fact that old lesson plans are no longer accepted—requiring brand-new prep for every single period—the burden is immense. Add to that the constant cycle of changing textbooks, grading tests, reviewing essays, and managing homework, not to mention dealing with parents showing up at unpredictable times. For instance, a father might storm in because he’s worked up over his kid getting a C when he thought they deserved an A. Then there are the mandatory "professional development" sessions scheduled during holidays; people assume teachers have too much free time, when in reality, those are just more work hours. I won't list everything, as it would be exhaustive, but please, think twice before making these claims, as it is clear you are out of the loop.

And regarding the point about character building: the emphasis is shifting because primary upbringing happens at home, not in a classroom. Ultimately, parents are the ones responsible for raising their children; they shouldn't simply outsource the job and then blame the school system the moment things go sideways.☕

🤦

It sounds like your mom is a super dedicated educator, but maybe parenting isn't exactly her specialty. I mean, if it were, she probably would've raised her own kid a little differently, right? ☕

So, let me get this straight... what's actually bothering you is that your mom is being a total professional and actually doing the job she gets paid for instead of babysitting you? *facepalm*

I've got plenty of teachers in my family too. Honestly, none of them really go overboard prepping lessons at home... 😬 It feels like the aunts at my local preschool put in more overtime than my teacher relatives ever do. And don't even get me started on workshops and training. You have no idea how many people in this country would kill for someone to foot the bill for their professional development! But here you are, venting because your mom isn't available to watch the kid. Well, look, if you need childcare, just handle it yourself. During your own working hours.

I honestly couldn't care less what some random forum handle thinks about my parenting style or the wild leaps in logic they’re making. They seem to think I need someone to babysit because my kid isn't quite old enough for preschool yet, while I'm juggling mandatory lectures, seminars, and lab work at the university—plus the constant pressure to nail every exam. I don't see why I even feel the need to justify needing childcare in the first place. My frustration isn't about my schedule; it's about the fact that the sitter's availability is a total moving target. One minute everything is fine, then suddenly the schedule shifts, and I'm left wondering when she's actually free to help.☕

I truly fail to see why you've decided to make my life your personal case study, and frankly, I find it exhausting. However, I can't just sit by while people claim that public school teachers do nothing besides teach classes. That is patently false, and I know that from firsthand experience. Lesson planning, grading, reviewing literature, creating worksheets, gathering resources, attending faculty meetings, and sitting through committee sessions—none of that magically completes itself. Take, for instance, when you have to grade three entire grades' worth of reading assignments; you end up spending hours on a Saturday or Sunday doing it, and of course, nobody ever sees that effort.

Jessica Howard5 said:Man, I just scrolled through some of the posts above. Some solid points in there, but honestly, it’s a mixed bag. You can tell exactly who actually knows what they're talking about and who’s just noise. I could probably pinpoint exactly who is an educator versus just a parent, and I’d bet I could guess the age of their kid, too. But I won't play guessing games. I'll just weigh in from a parent's perspective—dealing with elementary and high school. First off, let me try to debunk this myth that teachers are working way more hours than they're actually teaching.
Look, lesson plans (aside from the rookies just starting out) get recycled year after year. Some teachers don't even bother updating them to reflect the real world; they just hand down stuff that isn't even relevant anymore.
For example:
A couple of years back, in a 4th-grade social studies class, we did a unit on "the community where I live."
We're talking about Indianapolis. After school, I grabbed my kid's notebook to see what they actually wrote down that day.
Local industry:
- Leather tannery
- Footwear manufacture
- Niveta
- Mobilia
- Blacksmith
- IPK
- Procter & Gamble
- Silk Mill
- Litokarton
...
I won't list the rest, because it was just a long list of dead or dying industries in Indianapolis.
Out of all that, only Procter & Gamble, Niveta, and IPK are actually still operating. The teacher was listing the local economy as it stood when she was a college student. It makes me wonder: how much prep work is she actually doing, or is she just using lesson plans from twenty years ago? What are we even talking about here?
Second example:
High school—Computer Science class.
Learning programming languages and calculating logic? For what? What’s the point? Is it only because that's what the teacher studied 15 years ago? It's pure nonsense. And the kicker? The kid doesn't even know basic computer concepts. When I asked them to name input or output devices, or explain the difference between software and hardware... it was a struggle. Don't even get me started on the lack of skills with programs like PowerPoint or Word. They have zero clue what Excel is for or how useful it actually is.
So, there you go regarding teacher prep and whether they actually update their curriculum to keep up with technology and the modern world.
As for the whole "upbringing" debate in schools, let's be clear: our school system is officially defined as "developmental and educational." Development comes first; education comes second. Once the system is rebranded as strictly "educational," then sure, I'll accept the idea that teachers shouldn't have to deal with behavioral upbringing. But by choosing this career, you accepted that you'd be working in developmental-educational institutions. Stick to the job description.
Now, a little about us parents.
We're a diverse bunch. We vary in education levels, social status, and whether we're employed or not. If I really broke it down, I'd include the healthy and the sick, the alcoholics, the hypochondriacs, the PTSD sufferers, the optimists, and the pessimists. There are parents who know they're struggling and seek professional help, and there are those who refuse to admit they have no idea what they're doing, so they just keep making mistakes in how they raise their kids. That's why institutions exist—specifically tasked, I emphasize *tasked*, with correcting developmental issues. First, there's the school (the support services), which is supposed to recognize and diagnose the problem. They should try to fix it, and if they can't handle it in-house, they are legally required to refer the matter to the agencies that actually have the authority to solve these issues.
The school isn't some sacred, untouchable institution where you walk in after graduation and clock in for 40 years without anyone asking questions or holding you accountable. You aren't exempt from continuing your education, you don't get to stop being responsible, and heaven forbid someone actually evaluates your performance.
Let’s get real here for a second. We need some actual self-reflection from everyone involved—parents, teachers, school administrators, the whole lot of us.
IN OUR SCHOOLS, WE ARE OBSESSED WITH STUFFING KIDS FULL OF FACTS, BUT WE ARE COMPLETELY NEGLECTING CHARACTER BUILDING. I think we’re failing miserably, and frankly, it’s a disaster.

Only someone setting the curriculum for a specific subject—in this case, computer science—could answer that. So, someone at the Department.

Regarding school discipline and opening up discussions for everyone, I should point out that our system is still defined as being both character-building and educational. Character comes first, academics second.
IN OUR SCHOOLS, THERE IS AN INCREASING FOCUS ON CRAMMING IN KNOWLEDGE, AND A DECREASING FOCUS ON CHARACTER BUILDING. I think we’re missing the mark, and it's not good.

Alright, how would you actually handle the situation you described here? Say a small group of kids, whose parents happen to be big shots, starts bullying other students?😕

Death, what’s the issue here? If my comments aren't your cup of tea, just hit the block button.

I have zero interest in picking fights or trying to outsmart anyone on this forum; that isn't why I'm here. Perhaps my phrasing was a bit clumsy at times, but let’s get back to the point—when someone claims a teacher only puts in 4 or 5 hours a day of actual instruction and calls it a day, they are simply wrong. Based on all the systemic issues I've already outlined, those extra hours are mandatory. My earlier, somewhat awkward mention of child supervision was because the workload for educators is ballooning daily due to new mandates from the Department of Education. These aren't optional "extra mile" gestures by teachers; they are requirements.

As for the whole debate regarding character building in schools, I still fail to see how a chemistry teacher—someone who sees a kid for maybe two 45-minute sessions a week—could possibly have more influence on a child's upbringing than their own parents. Maybe that's just my perspective since I don't have kids in school right now.

Honestly, I can't fathom why my posts are triggering such intense backlash.

Mayo, sorry if my last post pissed you off, but trust me—my mom spent 40 years in the public school system, both teaching and counseling—so I pretty much know how these schools actually run. I’m looking at this through a parent's lens, based on my own time in the classroom back in the day and now watching my three kids go through it. So, yeah, I think I have some idea what I'm talking about. It’s hard for me to be totally objective, but since everyone posting here seems to be educators or close to them, it makes it sound like you’re all perfect saints with flawless consciences. Sorry, but from my own experience and what my kids deal with, I can't say for sure that everything you wrote is the absolute truth.
Obviously, I'm not saying everyone is bad. There are still dedicated teachers out there—like your mom—who actually follow the curriculum and do their jobs right. But look, I’m pointing out specific examples (maybe they're just a few bad apples in a big barrel) that end up overshadowing the good work their colleagues do. I'm giving examples, not making sweeping generalizations.
Sox
Yeah, the curriculum and lesson plans. Man, wouldn't it be great if things were updated constantly so they stayed relevant, especially in subjects where that's obvious? And honestly, the textbook situation is a massive joke. It's become a money grab for major publishing houses. Who pays the price? We do. Our kids do. It hits our wallets and messes with our children's heads. I feel like anyone could write a textbook these days without breaking a sweat. I don't even get why the review boards exist; their purpose seems totally murky to me. How can anyone claim those committees are doing a high-quality job when the volume of books is so huge? Every single year, seven different publishers churn out "new and improved" editions, and they lean hard on teachers to convince them that *this* specific book is the only way to teach the material. That needs to change.
Sox, regarding those "influential" people...
Look, there's a long list of stuff that needs fixing, but we have to fight it seriously. I'm fighting it myself.
http://osantunamihanovica.blogspot.com/ (Please, admins, forgive me for dropping a link one more time, Nica) You can see what I mean on this site. In my school, there are situations where the principal is directly responsible for failures regarding this exact issue. But a large group of us parents are constantly leaning on the administration, so things have actually started to shift slightly. It’s small, but it’s movement. As for "influential parents"? That's just a mindset. It's the idea that someone is a god compared to everyone else. Personally, I don't give those "authorities" the satisfaction of feeling superior to me. For crying out loud, there are institutions designed to solve these problems. When you file a formal written complaint and demand a written response, the "influence" of these problematic kids' parents suddenly vanishes. I don't have an issue with them. My principal does, because he gets personal perks from these influential families—and that’s on him, not the parents. Let me explain. We have a guy on the school board appointed by the city. He used to have kids in this district, and he happens to be the uncle of a problematic kid in 6th grade. He’s the one who decides whether the principal keeps his job. Then, they recently hired a specialist who is related to that same board member and is also the aunt of that same 6th grader. Now, this aunt is supposed to handle her nephew's case. Objectively? I highly doubt it. We parents have agreed to give them a reasonable deadline—even though this has been dragging on since first grade—to fix this. The solution has to work for everyone and prioritize the child's well-being, specifically helping and saving this kid. I don't think he's going to grow up to be a model citizen; I'd bet he turns into a sophisticated criminal.
Everyone keeps pointing fingers about who’s responsible for raising kids. Look, obviously we parents take the lead on this. But we also send our children to school with total confidence, trusting that the "job" of upbringing continues while they're sitting in those classrooms. My expectation? If my kid acts out at school, the teachers should step in, correct the behavior, and teach them how to act right. Then, they should notify me about the issue and ask for my help in fixing it. Of course, there's always that subset of parents who refuse to listen to any guidance from the school. They just snap back with, "Who do you think you are? I know how to raise my own kid."
Like I said, there are institutions designed to handle these issues, and they need to do their jobs—even when dealing with influential, high-profile parents. Sure, it moves a lot slower and more cautiously when you're dealing with the elite compared to a single mom working the register at Walmart, but progress still happens eventually.

This picture sums up exactly how our education system is spiraling. We’ve completely trashed the dynamic between schools and parents, and the relationship between schools and students too. Everyone's forgotten who actually holds authority when it comes to learning.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...22741944_n.jpg

Regarding this photo....

So I’m walking through the aisles at Target with my husband, right? And out of nowhere, we run into this mom whose kid is in his class....
She starts totally attacking my husband, basically blaming him and the school counselors because apparently, her little boy somehow ended up with two failing grades this semester.
She’s actually asking how he (and I quote) can have a D in English when he’s constantly listening to those rappers and knows everything!?!?
Btw, this kid gets like four or five failing grades every single year because, for crying out loud, he does absolutely zero work. It’s not even an exaggeration—I’ve heard it straight from the kid that his sisters end up doing his homework for him....
And to make things even better, the mom didn't even show up to any parent-teacher conferences all semester, and the kid doesn't have two failing grades, he has six....
The kid is just standing there behind his mom, laughing while she’s screaming at the teacher in the middle of the store.....

On the flip side, though, you definitely have teachers in schools that you wouldn't trust with a piece of wood, let alone a child. That's just the truth...

But honestly, those types of people were around back when I was in school too... and they always will be. You’ve got great teachers and then you've got total disasters....
That's not an excuse, but it’s a fact that we’re all just human beings... and that's how you have to look at it...
You always gotta see both sides...
And btw, in every school, everyone loves to pile on everyone else except the principal, because nobody has the guts to actually confront him.... man, I hate that....

I think it says the same thing in the post above... tons of mistakes that are actually the principal's fault, yet you parents just go after the counselors... I mean, wtf?! We know who's responsible for what...
But of course, nobody has the balls 🙄

Jessica Howard5 said:Mayo, sorry if my last post pissed you off, but trust me—my mom spent 40 years in the public school system, both teaching and counseling—so I pretty much know how these schools actually run. I’m looking at this through a parent's lens, based on my own time in the classroom back in the day and now watching my three kids go through it. So, yeah, I think I have some idea what I'm talking about. It’s hard for me to be totally objective, but since everyone posting here seems to be educators or close to them, it makes it sound like you’re all perfect saints with flawless consciences. Sorry, but from my own experience and what my kids deal with, I can't say for sure that everything you wrote is the absolute truth.
Obviously, I'm not saying everyone is bad. There are still dedicated teachers out there—like your mom—who actually follow the curriculum and do their jobs right. But look, I’m pointing out specific examples (maybe they're just a few bad apples in a big barrel) that end up overshadowing the good work their colleagues do. I'm giving examples, not making sweeping generalizations.
Sox
Yeah, the curriculum and lesson plans. Man, wouldn't it be great if things were updated constantly so they stayed relevant, especially in subjects where that's obvious? And honestly, the textbook situation is a massive joke. It's become a money grab for major publishing houses. Who pays the price? We do. Our kids do. It hits our wallets and messes with our children's heads. I feel like anyone could write a textbook these days without breaking a sweat. I don't even get why the review boards exist; their purpose seems totally murky to me. How can anyone claim those committees are doing a high-quality job when the volume of books is so huge? Every single year, seven different publishers churn out "new and improved" editions, and they lean hard on teachers to convince them that *this* specific book is the only way to teach the material. That needs to change.
Sox, regarding those "influential" people...
Look, there's a long list of stuff that needs fixing, but we have to fight it seriously. I'm fighting it myself.
http://osantunamihanovica.blogspot.com/ (Please, admins, forgive me for dropping a link one more time, Nica) You can see what I mean on this site. In my school, there are situations where the principal is directly responsible for failures regarding this exact issue. But a large group of us parents are constantly leaning on the administration, so things have actually started to shift slightly. It’s small, but it’s movement. As for "influential parents"? That's just a mindset. It's the idea that someone is a god compared to everyone else. Personally, I don't give those "authorities" the satisfaction of feeling superior to me. For crying out loud, there are institutions designed to solve these problems. When you file a formal written complaint and demand a written response, the "influence" of these problematic kids' parents suddenly vanishes. I don't have an issue with them. My principal does, because he gets personal perks from these influential families—and that’s on him, not the parents. Let me explain. We have a guy on the school board appointed by the city. He used to have kids in this district, and he happens to be the uncle of a problematic kid in 6th grade. He’s the one who decides whether the principal keeps his job. Then, they recently hired a specialist who is related to that same board member and is also the aunt of that same 6th grader. Now, this aunt is supposed to handle her nephew's case. Objectively? I highly doubt it. We parents have agreed to give them a reasonable deadline—even though this has been dragging on since first grade—to fix this. The solution has to work for everyone and prioritize the child's well-being, specifically helping and saving this kid. I don't think he's going to grow up to be a model citizen; I'd bet he turns into a sophisticated criminal.
Everyone keeps pointing fingers about who’s responsible for raising kids. Look, obviously we parents take the lead on this. But we also send our children to school with total confidence, trusting that the "job" of upbringing continues while they're sitting in those classrooms. My expectation? If my kid acts out at school, the teachers should step in, correct the behavior, and teach them how to act right. Then, they should notify me about the issue and ask for my help in fixing it. Of course, there's always that subset of parents who refuse to listen to any guidance from the school. They just snap back with, "Who do you think you are? I know how to raise my own kid."
Like I said, there are institutions designed to handle these issues, and they need to do their jobs—even when dealing with influential, high-profile parents. Sure, it moves a lot slower and more cautiously when you're dealing with the elite compared to a single mom working the register at Walmart, but progress still happens eventually.

And I guess that's where the whole thing falls apart.
It seems like a lot of parents these days seem to lean toward that mindset.
They just don't want to hear suggestions, even when you're trying to explain that a certain behavior is actually an issue.
Without some level of cooperation from the parents, I could try to correct a child's behavior until I'm blue in the face, but I'm probably not going to see much progress, I suppose. And honestly, there isn't really any institution out there that can force that connection to happen.

urbantinker8 said:And I guess that's where the whole thing falls apart.
It seems like a lot of parents these days seem to lean toward that mindset.
They just don't want to hear suggestions, even when you're trying to explain that a certain behavior is actually an issue.
Without some level of cooperation from the parents, I could try to correct a child's behavior until I'm blue in the face, but I'm probably not going to see much progress, I suppose. And honestly, there isn't really any institution out there that can force that connection to happen.

When I go to parent-teacher conferences, I talk to the homeroom teachers first—for all three of my kids—and ask about their behavior before anything else. Are they being respectful? Are they disruptive? How do they treat their classmates? If I need to make up hours, I'll do it, but I don't even look at the grades until after that. My teachers know the drill by now; half the time they don't even bother opening the gradebook right away.

That's my priority. Behavior comes first, everything else follows.🙂

As for the authorities, urbantinker8, it’s doable. You just need the willpower to actually follow the procedure. If a parent refuses to listen, shuts down communication, and won't cooperate for the sake of the kid, you have to report it to the school counselor. It’s their job to do everything possible to force parental cooperation. That’s the school side of things. If that fails, they have to report it to Child Protective Services. CPS has both the authority and the legal tools to step in and resolve the issue. You just need the guts to make the formal, written report.

Jason Ortiz5 said:Has any educator actually taken the time to explain to these kids how lockers work and how to actually stay organized? Or did everyone just point at them once, turn their backs, and think, "Whatever, not my problem, onto the next one"?

Also, expecting a bunch of teenagers to keep their lockers tidy isn't exactly high-level professional expectation for an educator. 🤷

Parents
Until parents realize that school isn't just a daycare where they can drop their kids off while they work (and hopefully not worry about them at home either), nothing changes. It’s like any other business—you have to invest if you want results, like funding smaller class sizes. Until they see that $400 a year's worth of textbooks costs roughly $33 a month—which some people blow through in five days on cigarettes—or until they understand that teachers who educate and mentor these kids are working 8+ hours, not just the 5 hours spent in the classroom, there won't be any progress.
There won't be any shift in the parent-school relationship until some folks realize the school isn't solely responsible for raising their child. A lot of parents just aren't ready to take ownership of their parenting. It’s way easier to blame the school for everything: the kid is aggressive? School's fault. The kid is anti-social? School's fault. If the kid is unhappy, nobody thinks to spend a few weeks actually playing with them or fixing the constant fighting between parents at home. If a kid is "lazy," spoiled, or combative, it’s always the school's issue, never the job of the parent who’s out of the house until 7 PM every night.

The vast majority of parents who are gone for 14 hours a day because of work aren't doing it to avoid their kids; they’re forced to by necessity. An educator who can't or won't look objectively at the reality of our society—which is reflected directly in the family unit—probably picked the wrong profession.

Teachers
They work for a paycheck, maybe 20 years in the field— $1933. They don't just work 5 hours a day. Judging them like that is like judging a judge or a lawyer based only on the hours they spend in a courtroom.
I think teacher evaluations would be totally fine if they were actually handled by people who know what they’re doing. As for testing? Sure, maybe, once they start testing all public servants. I'd love to see them test everyone in healthcare, the police, local government, or even the arts departments.

Look, teachers are working in a country where a ton of parents are basically pulling half-pay shifts just to get by. Until educators realize they aren't going to see a raise unless those working parents actually have more money to contribute to the federal budget, we’re never going to see a healthy economic balance.

If we’re going to evaluate everyone's performance, it needs to be done by qualified experts—not just colleagues who are all part of the same circle trying to protect their own interests. Evaluation has to be competent, sure, but it also has to be objective. All that other stuff you're bringing up, comparing this group to that group... honestly, it just sounds like political noise to me. 🤷

I am not advocating for "protecting the profession"; I am advocating for competence and objectivity. As a parent, I can be an expert, but I will never be objective regarding my own child, nor would I ever wish to be.
I maintain my stance: someone who knows the definition of the past perfect tense but possesses zero understanding of true professionalism is not a professional. Similarly, someone who is perfectly fluent in English is not necessarily competent to evaluate English language instruction in an elementary classroom, given the specific grade level, the specific student, and the various social circumstances involved.
I suggest we start using a dictionary and looking up terms like: competence, qualification, demagoguery, objectivity, and subjectivity.

I can't quite make sense of that one—it looks like a bit of a typo or maybe some shorthand I'm not familiar with! If you were trying to share a thought or ask a question, feel free to drop it again. I'm all ears! kaže:
I have a question for River, since you're a lawyer who understands both the legal system and the dynamics of school staff. In our school, we have a student who hasn't adjusted at all since first grade. I won't sugarcoat it—he’s just incredibly ill-behaved. Now that he's in sixth grade, things are spiraling out of control. He’s gathered a little group of five followers who basically act as his entourage. They cause chaos during class, at recess, before school starts, after school ends, and even out at the local park. To give you some context, his mom is a pediatrician, and his dad is a coach for one of our top national rowing champions—a world-class athlete. His dad also plays tennis and has a comfortable job at a major institution in a city like Indianapolis, where the director currently lives in Brooklyn (he's a professional football referee). The kid is genuinely mean-spirited, and lately, he’s become obsessed with one specific girl, constantly targeting her while bullying everyone else too. Just the other day, he told this poor girl that her father—who works for a huge corporation and is always traveling, while her mother stays home—isn't actually on business trips, but is instead using that money to fund an affair and pay for hotels. He’s also been making offensive gestures toward another student based on their last name. He pulls his five followers into everything he does. The school hasn't really done anything about it until recently. The teacher finally woke up after the entire fifth grade had to endure this for a year and started trying to intervene. They began calling meetings with the parents of the kids being targeted, but now the situation has actually gotten worse. The boy has gone on the offensive and doesn't care who he harasses or when. To make matters worse, his dad actually rewards this behavior by taking him to national team games; he even took him to a handball tournament in Mexico, which was a total nightmare.
What kind of methods or resources can actually be used to stop this? I'm also wondering who is officially responsible for protecting the other kids at school, and if any real progress can actually be made here. By the way, just as a heads-up, the kid's uncle sits on the school board right over at City Hall.

So, what kind of qualities does that kid actually have?
Does anyone actually exist out there?
I honestly don't get it—why does someone act so terribly all the time? Is there really nothing good left? No bright spots, no kind gestures, just constant negativity? It’s honestly exhausting to deal with.
🤔

I was wondering, which of the staff members really went out of their way to focus on that child's positive traits? It would be great to know who was working on reinforcing those better behaviors.
I’ve been thinking lately about how we all navigate being parents. I'm curious to hear your thoughts—how close do you feel you actually are to your kids? For some of us, it’s easy; they’re right there with us, joining in on school birthday parties, field trips, or heading off to the movies with their friends. But then there are those moments where things feel a bit more strained. Have you ever felt like your child was constantly being singled out or criticized when you were hanging out with your own circle of friends? It's tough when you feel like they're being judged instead of just being part of the group. 🤔

You know that part from *The Little Prince*? About how you have to tame the Fox?

It honestly makes my stomach turn when I come across stories like this. I truly believe that all those little troublemakers are actually just deeply unhappy and lonely kids. Deep down, they’re actually craving guidance and proper upbringing, but they never get the chance. Instead, they're stuck in a system—from elementary school all the way up through other institutions—where everyone is just playing power games. It becomes this toxic cycle of trying to prove who's tougher, pointing fingers to see who's at fault, or bragging about whose dad drives a bigger SUV or who can bully their way to the top. 😢 🤮

It’s heartbreaking to see how a rebellious child can end up stuck in the shadows—feeling overlooked and unloved. It feels like there's this constant, growing pressure from outsiders for them to just fall in line, demanding they be obedient and hardworking for people who do nothing but criticize, punish, and push them away.
It feels like they’re just picking anyone who will take him—basically settling for the leftovers because everyone else passed him over for not being quite up to par.

Come on, let's try to see things from his perspective for a second.
How would you actually feel if someone called you out like that? And more importantly, would it give you any real motivation to change, or would you just shut down after being criticized so publicly on a forum?
Did you really think three times before posting all that info? It basically lays out his entire identity for everyone to see.

You mentioned one of the things you dislike about boys is how they say mean things to a girl's face about her dad. But what about what you’ve said about him—his dad, his mom, or his relatives? And you aren't even saying it to his face; you're doing it right here on an online forum under a protected username. Is that really okay? Aren't you essentially doing the exact same thing he does—the very behavior you claim should be stopped?
How are we supposed to teach kids not to act certain ways if we adults are out here doing the same thing? Do we just get a pass because we're older? Or are our intentions somehow "pure" while theirs are considered wrong?

😕

Jessica Howard5 said:Look, the principal had a reelection a couple of months back, and he’s set for the next four years regardless.
The catch? One of the board members is his uncle, and the guy is deep in politics.
Honestly, the best move would be for the parents to pull their kids out and find a different school, but I think the real issue is this kid's dad. He lets him get away with everything—as long as he acts out, he gets rewarded with trips to London or Chicago.
I don't get the mom, though. She's a pediatrician, yet she does absolutely nothing. I doubt Social Services will step in either.
I'm worried things are going to blow up because some of these fathers are going to take matters into their own hands. One of them is just as influential socially, but he's pretty rough around the edges, so things could get ugly.
I'm no genius, but I feel bad for the kid. You can see him turning into a delinquent right before your eyes.
If they don't fix this by the end of the year, I bet at least six or seven kids from that class will demand a transfer to another school.
The principal is totally blind to the reputation he's building. It's the same story in other grades involving "well-connected" kids. You've got the son of a local tycoon from a massive corporation in Houston (8th grade), another tycoon's kid (7th grade), two sons of CEOs from major federal agencies (5th and 7th grade)... plus a bunch of "nobodies" hanging around them just to feel important. Typical. This is what happens when you have an "elite" school. It seems "elite" only refers to the families attending, not the actual education or how the students behave.
BTW thanks for the reply.

Anyway, let's move on to someone else.
👏
🙄

But seriously, I am genuinely curious: how exactly would a different school improve his behavior? Would you just send him off to a juvenile detention center instead?🙄

Susan James said:

I can't quite make sense of that one—it looks like a bit of a typo or maybe some shorthand I'm not familiar with! If you were trying to share a thought or ask a question, feel free to drop it again. I'm all ears! kaže:
I have a question for River, since you're a lawyer who understands both the legal system and the dynamics of school staff. In our school, we have a student who hasn't adjusted at all since first grade. I won't sugarcoat it—he’s just incredibly ill-behaved. Now that he's in sixth grade, things are spiraling out of control. He’s gathered a little group of five followers who basically act as his entourage. They cause chaos during class, at recess, before school starts, after school ends, and even out at the local park. To give you some context, his mom is a pediatrician, and his dad is a coach for one of our top national rowing champions—a world-class athlete. His dad also plays tennis and has a comfortable job at a major institution in a city like Indianapolis, where the director currently lives in Brooklyn (he's a professional football referee). The kid is genuinely mean-spirited, and lately, he’s become obsessed with one specific girl, constantly targeting her while bullying everyone else too. Just the other day, he told this poor girl that her father—who works for a huge corporation and is always traveling, while her mother stays home—isn't actually on business trips, but is instead using that money to fund an affair and pay for hotels. He’s also been making offensive gestures toward another student based on their last name. He pulls his five followers into everything he does. The school hasn't really done anything about it until recently. The teacher finally woke up after the entire fifth grade had to endure this for a year and started trying to intervene. They began calling meetings with the parents of the kids being targeted, but now the situation has actually gotten worse. The boy has gone on the offensive and doesn't care who he harasses or when. To make matters worse, his dad actually rewards this behavior by taking him to national team games; he even took him to a handball tournament in Mexico, which was a total nightmare.
What kind of methods or resources can actually be used to stop this? I'm also wondering who is officially responsible for protecting the other kids at school, and if any real progress can actually be made here. By the way, just as a heads-up, the kid's uncle sits on the school board right over at City Hall.

So, what kind of qualities does that kid actually have?
Does anyone actually exist out there?
I honestly don't get it—why does someone act so terribly all the time? Is there really nothing good left? No bright spots, no kind gestures, just constant negativity? It’s honestly exhausting to deal with.
🤔

I was wondering, which of the staff members really went out of their way to focus on that child's positive traits? It would be great to know who was working on reinforcing those better behaviors.
I’ve been thinking lately about how we all navigate being parents. I'm curious to hear your thoughts—how close do you feel you actually are to your kids? For some of us, it’s easy; they’re right there with us, joining in on school birthday parties, field trips, or heading off to the movies with their friends. But then there are those moments where things feel a bit more strained. Have you ever felt like your child was constantly being singled out or criticized when you were hanging out with your own circle of friends? It's tough when you feel like they're being judged instead of just being part of the group. 🤔

You know that part from *The Little Prince*? About how you have to tame the Fox?

It honestly makes my stomach turn when I come across stories like this. I truly believe that all those little troublemakers are actually just deeply unhappy and lonely kids. Deep down, they’re actually craving guidance and proper upbringing, but they never get the chance. Instead, they're stuck in a system—from elementary school all the way up through other institutions—where everyone is just playing power games. It becomes this toxic cycle of trying to prove who's tougher, pointing fingers to see who's at fault, or bragging about whose dad drives a bigger SUV or who can bully their way to the top. 😢 🤮

It’s heartbreaking to see how a rebellious child can end up stuck in the shadows—feeling overlooked and unloved. It feels like there's this constant, growing pressure from outsiders for them to just fall in line, demanding they be obedient and hardworking for people who do nothing but criticize, punish, and push them away.
It feels like they’re just picking anyone who will take him—basically settling for the leftovers because everyone else passed him over for not being quite up to par.

Come on, let's try to see things from his perspective for a second.
How would you actually feel if someone called you out like that? And more importantly, would it give you any real motivation to change, or would you just shut down after being criticized so publicly on a forum?
Did you really think three times before posting all that info? It basically lays out his entire identity for everyone to see.

You mentioned one of the things you dislike about boys is how they say mean things to a girl's face about her dad. But what about what you’ve said about him—his dad, his mom, or his relatives? And you aren't even saying it to his face; you're doing it right here on an online forum under a protected username. Is that really okay? Aren't you essentially doing the exact same thing he does—the very behavior you claim should be stopped?
How are we supposed to teach kids not to act certain ways if we adults are out here doing the same thing? Do we just get a pass because we're older? Or are our intentions somehow "pure" while theirs are considered wrong?

😕

Anyway, let's move on to someone else.
👏
🙄

But seriously, I am genuinely curious: how exactly would a different school improve his behavior? Would you just send him off to a juvenile detention center instead?🙄

He probably goes to some. He’s not exactly a loner; he’s got a core group of five followers. So, there are six of them total, just reinforcing each other's nonsense.
In my view, you have to break up that clique first. Spread them out into different classes. In Finland, they reshuffle the kids every year, and it works. It prevents them from forming those tight-knit gangs used for bullying. It doesn't happen overnight, but it's definitely harder when you're forced to make a new crew every single school year. 😬

wanderinggardener12 said:I am not advocating for "protecting the profession"; I am advocating for competence and objectivity. As a parent, I can be an expert, but I will never be objective regarding my own child, nor would I ever wish to be.
I maintain my stance: someone who knows the definition of the past perfect tense but possesses zero understanding of true professionalism is not a professional. Similarly, someone who is perfectly fluent in English is not necessarily competent to evaluate English language instruction in an elementary classroom, given the specific grade level, the specific student, and the various social circumstances involved.
I suggest we start using a dictionary and looking up terms like: competence, qualification, demagoguery, objectivity, and subjectivity.

Well, you certainly seem to have a handle on that word "demagoguery." 😬

Look, checking if teachers actually know their subject matter shouldn't be the only thing we're monitoring. When you're raising kids, there are just so many moving parts and influences at play. I think even you get that—a teacher could be a total genius in math or history, but if they lack basic people skills or actual classroom management, they aren't going to get very far. It's just one of those things.

And about that favorite little excuse teachers use—claiming they aren't there to "raise" children? Please. Anyone who spends significant time with a kid is playing a role in their upbringing, even if it's just through their attitude or being a role model. If a teacher sends the vibe of, "I'm just here to dump this info on you, give you a grade, and I couldn't care less about you as a person," that sends a massive message to the student. And then, once the kid starts acting out based on that message, suddenly everyone points the finger at the parents.

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not saying all parents are doing a bad job. But like the old saying goes back in the day, it takes a whole village to raise a child.