Student-teacher dynamics vs. parent-teacher dynamics

Jason Ortiz5 said:Well, you certainly seem to have a handle on that word "demagoguery." 😬

Look, checking if teachers actually know their subject matter shouldn't be the only thing we're monitoring. When you're raising kids, there are just so many moving parts and influences at play. I think even you get that—a teacher could be a total genius in math or history, but if they lack basic people skills or actual classroom management, they aren't going to get very far. It's just one of those things.

And about that favorite little excuse teachers use—claiming they aren't there to "raise" children? Please. Anyone who spends significant time with a kid is playing a role in their upbringing, even if it's just through their attitude or being a role model. If a teacher sends the vibe of, "I'm just here to dump this info on you, give you a grade, and I couldn't care less about you as a person," that sends a massive message to the student. And then, once the kid starts acting out based on that message, suddenly everyone points the finger at the parents.

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not saying all parents are doing a bad job. But like the old saying goes back in the day, it takes a whole village to raise a child.

God, I just can't stand generalizations...🙄
Look, nobody is actually claiming we aren't supposed to help shape these kids; of course we are.
But I guess you just can't do it alone, not without parents actually stepping up and cooperating. It isn't really realistic to expect me to perform some kind of miracle when I’m handed a fifteen-year-old for "rehabilitation."
I have plenty of my own experiences where I felt like I was hitting a brick wall trying to reach a student, and all that effort just feels pretty futile when the parents refuse to get involved.
First example.
There was this kid with a massive file from seventh grade—stealing, violence at sports games, fights, who knows what else. His father has PTSD and basically lashes out at everyone—the boy, his wife, his siblings. We’ve involved CPS and everything, but nothing changes. The kid terrorizes the other students and even the teachers. The father doesn't see any issue with it; he shows up to parent-teacher conferences drunk and starts making threats. Honestly, I’m just sitting there waiting for him to pull a gun and start shooting. The school counselor and I spend endless hours talking to the boy, but there's zero progress. Trying to talk to the father is an impossible mission. A social worker comes by, we talk, and still, nothing happens. And it stayed like that... for four years. Just kill me now; I couldn't reach him.
Second example.
There was a girl struggling with anorexia. She eventually opened up to me that she was seeing a psychiatrist, though the treatment wasn't helping much. When I talked to her parents, they just denied there was even a problem and insisted she was lying.😲 The counselor spoke with the psychiatrist, who mentioned the girl was in treatment but wouldn't say anything more without the parents' consent. They were going to send over some medical history, but at the next meeting, the parents finally admitted she was seeing someone, yet they still refused to let us see any medical records. They just kept saying she was healthy. So, once again, I spent countless hours talking to her and then to the parents, and it led nowhere. In the end, they just pulled her out of school.
Et cetera, et cetera...

I suppose I could probably list a million other instances where absolutely nothing can be accomplished without parental support, it’s just that most of them don't seem to realize that.

Ribež Look, my priority is saving that kid. Moving him to a new environment might be one way to fix this. I’m no expert, so I won’t claim I have the right answer. All I know is that the parents of those seven abused kids are looking at moving them to a different school if things don't change immediately. They just can't let their children endure that torture any longer.
As for the boy, his parents completely dropped the ball. It honestly baffles me because they're intellectuals. Mom is a doctor, and Dad coaches a world-class athlete from Chicago—so he's likely a solid sports mentor. But the kid has been showing behavioral red flags since preschool. In my opinion, both the parents and the system failed him here. You could even link it to social status; his parents have connections and are well-known. I'll say it again: if it were a single mother working at a local factory, people would have reacted "drastically" by now, labeling her an unfit parent and calling it a day. My goal is helping the kid, but like I said, it feels late. He's already too deep in it.
Example 1.
He corners a little girl in front of a huge crowd and tells her how her dad doesn't actually go on business trips, but just rents hotel rooms to cheat on her mom.
Example 2.
He traps another girl in a corner of the classroom, crowds her space, and starts saying creepy stuff about being turned on by her.
Example 3.
He leaves school early and burns the tires off one of the girls' bikes.
Example 4.
He ripped a page out of a boy's math homework because the kid wouldn't write the assignment in his folder during recess.
Example 5.
He and his followers ambush a girl after school, gang up on her, and hit her under the eye with an ice pop, leaving a bruise.
All of this is documented. This has been happening since first grade and it's only getting worse.
What's the move? I'm telling you, the child needs saving ASAP, but does that have to happen at the expense of the other kids?

urbantinker8 said:God, I just can't stand generalizations...🙄
Look, nobody is actually claiming we aren't supposed to help shape these kids; of course we are.
But I guess you just can't do it alone, not without parents actually stepping up and cooperating. It isn't really realistic to expect me to perform some kind of miracle when I’m handed a fifteen-year-old for "rehabilitation."
I have plenty of my own experiences where I felt like I was hitting a brick wall trying to reach a student, and all that effort just feels pretty futile when the parents refuse to get involved.
First example.
There was this kid with a massive file from seventh grade—stealing, violence at sports games, fights, who knows what else. His father has PTSD and basically lashes out at everyone—the boy, his wife, his siblings. We’ve involved CPS and everything, but nothing changes. The kid terrorizes the other students and even the teachers. The father doesn't see any issue with it; he shows up to parent-teacher conferences drunk and starts making threats. Honestly, I’m just sitting there waiting for him to pull a gun and start shooting. The school counselor and I spend endless hours talking to the boy, but there's zero progress. Trying to talk to the father is an impossible mission. A social worker comes by, we talk, and still, nothing happens. And it stayed like that... for four years. Just kill me now; I couldn't reach him.
Second example.
There was a girl struggling with anorexia. She eventually opened up to me that she was seeing a psychiatrist, though the treatment wasn't helping much. When I talked to her parents, they just denied there was even a problem and insisted she was lying.😲 The counselor spoke with the psychiatrist, who mentioned the girl was in treatment but wouldn't say anything more without the parents' consent. They were going to send over some medical history, but at the next meeting, the parents finally admitted she was seeing someone, yet they still refused to let us see any medical records. They just kept saying she was healthy. So, once again, I spent countless hours talking to her and then to the parents, and it led nowhere. In the end, they just pulled her out of school.
Et cetera, et cetera...

I suppose I could probably list a million other instances where absolutely nothing can be accomplished without parental support, it’s just that most of them don't seem to realize that.

Oh, hey, didn't you mention earlier that you really hate it when people generalize everything? 🥳 😬

But wait, did anyone actually say teachers have to be the ones raising these kids themselves? I never said all parents are saints—not by a long shot. There are definitely people out there who shouldn't even be trusted with a kitchen knife, let alone a child. But look, we don't live in some perfect utopia, and anyone can have kids. If you choose a career working with children, you’ve gotta accept that you're going to influence them, whether you mean to or not. It's just part of the job. 🤷

Anyway, Nosorog wrote a really great post above.

Jessica Howard5 said:Ribež Look, my priority is saving that kid. Moving him to a new environment might be one way to fix this. I’m no expert, so I won’t claim I have the right answer. All I know is that the parents of those seven abused kids are looking at moving them to a different school if things don't change immediately. They just can't let their children endure that torture any longer.
As for the boy, his parents completely dropped the ball. It honestly baffles me because they're intellectuals. Mom is a doctor, and Dad coaches a world-class athlete from Chicago—so he's likely a solid sports mentor. But the kid has been showing behavioral red flags since preschool. In my opinion, both the parents and the system failed him here. You could even link it to social status; his parents have connections and are well-known. I'll say it again: if it were a single mother working at a local factory, people would have reacted "drastically" by now, labeling her an unfit parent and calling it a day. My goal is helping the kid, but like I said, it feels late. He's already too deep in it.
Example 1.
He corners a little girl in front of a huge crowd and tells her how her dad doesn't actually go on business trips, but just rents hotel rooms to cheat on her mom.
Example 2.
He traps another girl in a corner of the classroom, crowds her space, and starts saying creepy stuff about being turned on by her.
Example 3.
He leaves school early and burns the tires off one of the girls' bikes.
Example 4.
He ripped a page out of a boy's math homework because the kid wouldn't write the assignment in his folder during recess.
Example 5.
He and his followers ambush a girl after school, gang up on her, and hit her under the eye with an ice pop, leaving a bruise.
All of this is documented. This has been happening since first grade and it's only getting worse.
What's the move? I'm telling you, the child needs saving ASAP, but does that have to happen at the expense of the other kids?

This kind of chaos happens in pretty much every school district in the country; you aren't some special case. You can move your kids to a different school, but you'll just find another brat pulling the exact same stunts there.

Jason Ortiz5 said:Oh, hey, didn't you mention earlier that you really hate it when people generalize everything? 🥳 😬

But wait, did anyone actually say teachers have to be the ones raising these kids themselves? I never said all parents are saints—not by a long shot. There are definitely people out there who shouldn't even be trusted with a kitchen knife, let alone a child. But look, we don't live in some perfect utopia, and anyone can have kids. If you choose a career working with children, you’ve gotta accept that you're going to influence them, whether you mean to or not. It's just part of the job. 🤷

Anyway, Nosorog wrote a really great post above.

I'm not generalizing.☕
In my experience, though, it feels like the situation is roughly 60:40 in favor of those unreasonable parents who just aren't interested in cooperating. I never said that *nobody* is willing to work together.😉
Maybe you didn't say all parents are perfect, but I think you might be surprised by how many of them actually believe they are. And it's often exactly those types who probably shouldn't even have a kitchen knife to their name.
And honestly, I don't think I can truly make an impact on a child who lives in an environment that constantly—and quite often without any real reason—disregards my profession. And unfortunately, it feels like there are more and more of those cases lately.

By the way, I guess I wonder what you would do if you were in my shoes in those two specific scenarios?

Emily Gonzalez51 said:This kind of chaos happens in pretty much every school district in the country; you aren't some special case. You can move your kids to a different school, but you'll just find another brat pulling the exact same stunts there.

Fine, maybe you're right, but I don't see an actual answer or solution here. What's the plan then? Should parents of bullied kids just teach their own children to become bullies too? I don't get it. Give me a real solution. What are we supposed to do?
Is that how our principal thinks, too? Like, "well, they'll be fine somewhere else"? God, I can't stand that mindset. And don't even get me started on the "toughen them up" crowd—the idea that life is hard so they should just learn to deal with it. Why do kids aged 6 to 14 have to go through this? If they don't learn to avoid being hypocrites, liars, thieves, and frauds now, what kind of bosses are they going to be later? It makes zero sense.
So, is the stance that these victims just need to "toughen up"? If so, maybe we should all just send our kids to school with brass knuckles, and once they're a bit older, buy them a handgun for their waistband so they can really toughen up. This little kid has already "toughened up," and I'm sure he'll be carrying a piece by the time he's grown, just another local thug. He's definitely on the right track.

Look, even in that post where I listed those examples, those were just things I could think of off the top of my head. In reality, small products fail every single day, and the scale of the disasters can be pretty massive.

Jessica Howard5 said:Fine, maybe you're right, but I don't see an actual answer or solution here. What's the plan then? Should parents of bullied kids just teach their own children to become bullies too? I don't get it. Give me a real solution. What are we supposed to do?
Is that how our principal thinks, too? Like, "well, they'll be fine somewhere else"? God, I can't stand that mindset. And don't even get me started on the "toughen them up" crowd—the idea that life is hard so they should just learn to deal with it. Why do kids aged 6 to 14 have to go through this? If they don't learn to avoid being hypocrites, liars, thieves, and frauds now, what kind of bosses are they going to be later? It makes zero sense.
So, is the stance that these victims just need to "toughen up"? If so, maybe we should all just send our kids to school with brass knuckles, and once they're a bit older, buy them a handgun for their waistband so they can really toughen up. This little kid has already "toughened up," and I'm sure he'll be carrying a piece by the time he's grown, just another local thug. He's definitely on the right track.

Look, in the USA, kids like this get suspended. They get sent home for a week, maybe a month. If they don't fix their act, once they return, they're expelled from school entirely. What else do you expect? Here, there are absolutely zero consequences, so of course these things keep happening.

urbantinker8 said:I'm not generalizing.☕
In my experience, though, it feels like the situation is roughly 60:40 in favor of those unreasonable parents who just aren't interested in cooperating. I never said that *nobody* is willing to work together.😉
Maybe you didn't say all parents are perfect, but I think you might be surprised by how many of them actually believe they are. And it's often exactly those types who probably shouldn't even have a kitchen knife to their name.
And honestly, I don't think I can truly make an impact on a child who lives in an environment that constantly—and quite often without any real reason—disregards my profession. And unfortunately, it feels like there are more and more of those cases lately.

By the way, I guess I wonder what you would do if you were in my shoes in those two specific scenarios?

To be totally honest? I can only tell you what I *wish* I could do when things get this bad: just take the kid away from those idiots before it’s too late. You know, find them a solid family—someone who’ll actually love them, understand them, and respect them. People who lead by example and instill some real values through their actions and their words. (Yeah, yeah, I know... I definitely have a bit of a savior complex going on there...) At the same time, I'm realistic enough to know we live in a pretty messy world, and let's face it, the US isn't always sunshine and rainbows. Happy endings are more like a rare coincidence than a rule.

But at least I'm self-aware enough to know I couldn't just stand by and do nothing. On the flip side, I also know life isn't always perfect and everything isn't under control, so I definitely wouldn't make a good social worker or educator. There. That's my take.

Jason Ortiz5 said:To be totally honest? I can only tell you what I *wish* I could do when things get this bad: just take the kid away from those idiots before it’s too late. You know, find them a solid family—someone who’ll actually love them, understand them, and respect them. People who lead by example and instill some real values through their actions and their words. (Yeah, yeah, I know... I definitely have a bit of a savior complex going on there...) At the same time, I'm realistic enough to know we live in a pretty messy world, and let's face it, the US isn't always sunshine and rainbows. Happy endings are more like a rare coincidence than a rule.

But at least I'm self-aware enough to know I couldn't just stand by and do nothing. On the flip side, I also know life isn't always perfect and everything isn't under control, so I definitely wouldn't make a good social worker or educator. There. That's my take.

We need actual, actionable proposals for how to handle this. If they can maintain order and discipline in the USA, then we should be able to do it here too. But you have to establish clear rules of conduct, firm boundaries, and real consequences. As long as "discipline" is nothing more than a mild reprimand that everyone ignores—where a teacher's only recourse is to say, "Hey guys, please don't act like hooligans"—nothing is ever going to change.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Look, in the USA, kids like this get suspended. They get sent home for a week, maybe a month. If they don't fix their act, once they return, they're expelled from school entirely. What else do you expect? Here, there are absolutely zero consequences, so of course these things keep happening.

But what is a kid actually supposed to do when they're pulled out of class? Where are they even going? What are they doing during that time? What kind of message are they receiving if their education is cut off for a week.
Don't you think that for a kid who acts out or tries to be "cool" by being disruptive, getting kicked out of class is actually a reward? 🤔

And I'm curious—how is a child supposed to improve by being removed from the classroom? Are they expected to just sit at home meditating, performing deep introspection until they reach some positive epiphany, only to show up back at school with their head bowed, asking for forgiveness? 🤣

One more thing... everyone keeps talking about sanctions (or the lack thereof)... but I’m really interested in this: how do you think we can actually encourage positive behavior if we spend all our energy focusing solely on the negative? 🤔
And honestly, who would actually want to change if they're constantly being threatened with punishments, or worse, if those punishments are the only thing they ever receive? 🤷

Susan James said:But what is a kid actually supposed to do when they're pulled out of class? Where are they even going? What are they doing during that time? What kind of message are they receiving if their education is cut off for a week.
Don't you think that for a kid who acts out or tries to be "cool" by being disruptive, getting kicked out of class is actually a reward? 🤔

And I'm curious—how is a child supposed to improve by being removed from the classroom? Are they expected to just sit at home meditating, performing deep introspection until they reach some positive epiphany, only to show up back at school with their head bowed, asking for forgiveness? 🤣

One more thing... everyone keeps talking about sanctions (or the lack thereof)... but I’m really interested in this: how do you think we can actually encourage positive behavior if we spend all our energy focusing solely on the negative? 🤔
And honestly, who would actually want to change if they're constantly being threatened with punishments, or worse, if those punishments are the only thing they ever receive? 🤷

Forgive me, but what kind of discipline is actually being enforced here? Our education system is a complete disaster; you have kids in vocational schools smashing benches with boxing gloves and stabbing grasshoppers into the floor. Sure, it's just certain individuals, but what is the response? Nothing. In America, every fourth child is a victim of bullying. http://www.parenting.info/magazine/...america-bullying/ This is exactly where we end up because of a system without any real consequences. And then people act shocked when someone gets jumped in the street. Unfortunately, there will be more cases like Luke Ritzova's.

What does a suspended student do? They likely deal with social services or a psychologist, along with their parents. The message sent is that this behavior makes them unfit for society... yet here, people like that integrate perfectly fine and even become leaders.

Look, even if you were suspended from your job for a week because you messed something up, you wouldn't be celebrating, even if you hated your job.
Or do you honestly think we are any smarter than the Austrians? I highly doubt it. 😬

Emily Gonzalez51 said:We need actual, actionable proposals for how to handle this. If they can maintain order and discipline in the USA, then we should be able to do it here too. But you have to establish clear rules of conduct, firm boundaries, and real consequences. As long as "discipline" is nothing more than a mild reprimand that everyone ignores—where a teacher's only recourse is to say, "Hey guys, please don't act like hooligans"—nothing is ever going to change.

Susan James already hit the nail on the head there. What’s the actual goal of suspending someone, whether it's for a few days or permanently? The school gets rid of the headache, sure, but the kid is still out there, just drifting somewhere else in the system. And let's be real, behind every one of those kids is a set of parents who likely dropped the ball on upbringing, and they aren't suddenly going to change their ways just because their kid got kicked out of school. Honestly, it usually just pushes the kid to make even bigger mistakes.

I mean, think about it. When you spend a person's entire life being told they're bad, useless, or a total failure—without any positive reinforcement or encouragement—where does that lead? It leads to them thinking, "Well, if everyone thinks I'm a loser, why bother trying to be anything else?" And eventually, that's how you end up seeing those stories in the news about people spiraling out of control.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Forgive me, but what kind of discipline is actually being enforced here? Our education system is a complete disaster; you have kids in vocational schools smashing benches with boxing gloves and stabbing grasshoppers into the floor. Sure, it's just certain individuals, but what is the response? Nothing. In America, every fourth child is a victim of bullying. http://www.parenting.info/magazine/...america-bullying/ This is exactly where we end up because of a system without any real consequences. And then people act shocked when someone gets jumped in the street. Unfortunately, there will be more cases like Luke Ritzova's.

What does a suspended student do? They likely deal with social services or a psychologist, along with their parents. The message sent is that this behavior makes them unfit for society... yet here, people like that integrate perfectly fine and even become leaders.

Look, even if you were suspended from your job for a week because you messed something up, you wouldn't be celebrating, even if you hated your job.
Or do you honestly think we are any smarter than the Austrians? I highly doubt it. 😬

You can't compare an adult getting suspended from work to a child being sent home from school. I'm an adult; I chose my career, and I carry the responsibility for it. A child didn't choose their school, and on top of that, the responsibility for a child and their behavior lies with the parents. The sanctions you're suggesting only target the child, while the parents face nothing. How does that child feel, especially if they see a parent who isn't helping them—someone who might even be doing bad things themselves—getting no punishment? (Or maybe the only "punishment" they get is having the child taken away and placed in foster care?) Does a child really have any motivation to change when they see that the adults around them aren't role models, and aren't even held accountable?

And you can't answer my question about what happens to a child during a week-long suspension by saying "most likely." If you're planning sanctions intended to actually modify behavior, they need to be carefully thought out. You have to consider what the child does while they aren't in class, how to help them change, and how they will make up the schoolwork. Let me remind you: for a kid who is acting out or disrupting class, a suspension feels like a reward, not a punishment. You can't permanently expel them because public school is mandatory. And what would you even gain by expelling them? You'd just end up creating teenagers who turn into homeless people or criminals without even finishing their education.🤔)

Back when I was in elementary school, the threat of expulsion actually kept kids somewhat in check. Even then, we had kids stabbing knives into desks and stuff like that. Yeah, even more than 20 years ago, some kids acted out just like this 😁
but having that one tool—expulsion—meant they actually feared the consequences. And of course, once you're expelled, continuing your education usually means heading to alternative programs. My best friend ended up in one of those programs after being kicked out, and looking back, I honestly think it helped her get her act together and find some stability.
It’s really kind to look at things through a compassionate lens, seeing a child who needs help rather than someone who is inherently bad, but just a product of their environment.
I completely agree with that, and I'm certain that most "bad" adults simply missed out on getting the support they needed during their childhood.
However, I think it might be a bit naive and idealistic to suggest that sanctions aren't necessary. Kids know they can get away with anything. They realize they can do whatever comes to mind without facing any real repercussions. If they commit a serious crime, they know they'll just spend six months in a juvenile detention center and be back. If they cause chaos at school, they know nothing will happen to them.
You can say what you want, but that way of thinking just isn't realistic.

The current state of our schools is a mess because kids today have all the rights but zero responsibilities. There isn’t a single way to enforce discipline without triggering a massive public outcry or a wave of condemnation. I remember when I was in elementary school; there was actually a sense of order back then. Respect was expected. We wore uniforms, and if you were messy or disobedient, you might get a quick correction with a ruler or a flick to the fingers—not even for major offenses, just for things like whispering in class or neglecting your duties. For more serious issues, students were simply suspended. Parents would show up at the principal's office red-faced with shame, and by that evening, the kids were already feeling the sting of discipline at home. People call that system flawed, and sure, maybe it was, but it was incredibly efficient and decisive. Honestly, I'm sick of hearing about "children's rights," child advocates, and all this endless talk about protecting them. Legally, adulthood starts at 18, but it shouldn't feel like they magically transform overnight. If someone is capable of committing crimes, terrorizing those around them, or repeatedly disrespecting everyone in their orbit, then they aren't socialized, and the rest of society shouldn't have to suffer for it. Take that case where a 16-year-old picks up two girls in a high-powered BMW in downtown Miami; most people would want to see him face real consequences, and frankly, they'd be right! But no, he’s "just a kid," and his reward is getting sent off to a fancy boarding school in Switzerland. That is the exact message our education and legal systems are sending. This behavior is being taught from a young age. These kids face absolutely no repercussions for how they act, whether at school or at home. In fact, parents often reward them with iPhones or cars instead of holding them accountable for their actions.
Anyone who thinks we can save these children using the current methods is delusional. And let me ask you: who is going to protect the truly innocent victims from these bullies? I recall a case where "blood is thicker than water"—where an aggressor, with full parental support, was terrorizing a young girl while the authorities did absolutely nothing. It ended with the girl's father stepping in to defend her, only for him to be the one reported to the police while the bully just laughs in his face. Unfortunately, that seems to be daily life now. These unadjusted individuals are protected like endangered species. It feels like the only solution left is for the victims to take matters into their own hands—to gang up and settle it with a baseball bat. Since they're "just kids," nobody gets in trouble, and the bully gets a few months off before returning to school to torment someone else. Sorry, I know I’ll get torn apart for suggesting a scenario like that, but what other choice do these victims have? Parents aren't allowed to defend them, and schools either can't or won't act.
As long as things stay this way, our entire society will continue to decline. Someone mentioned Austria earlier, but it's the same in Germany, where teachers are treated with actual respect. Here, they are insulted, reassigned to random districts, or harassed by inspectors if they don't cater to every single whim of these "kids"—who, let's be honest, are old enough to know better by now.

Someone please pinch me because I honestly can’t believe what I just read... Seriously, you just compared kids whispering in class to actually trampling two girls. 🤦 Look, I grew up in that generation where getting a smack or a heavy-handed lecture from a teacher was just part of the deal. And surprise, surprise—those "punishments" weren't exactly fair or balanced; they were basically just outlets for some angry teachers to blow off steam. You know how it went? A teacher would hear us talking—not counting the fact that she was gossiping outside the classroom herself—and she’d storm in like a whirlwind, charging between the desks to grab whoever she could or give someone a humiliating timeout. And no, I’m not traumatized or anything, I just learned what a medical diagnosis looked like at a very young age. ☕ It’s funny, though, because the most disciplined classrooms always belonged to the professors who barely ever raised their voices. They clearly had much better ways of handling things.

I’m not saying we shouldn't have consequences. But a punishment needs to actually mean something. It should be about teaching a lesson, not just a way for someone to flex their power and show everyone who's boss.

Bully culture isn't some special, vulnerable demographic in need of social services—that's a complete myth. Most of the time, you're just looking at spoiled kids who grew up without a single boundary in their lives.
I remember a thread where parents were complaining about how a preschooler would lash out at their child while Mom was busy on her iPhone. Those same kids are going to end up in the same elementary school as yours one day.
They are simply testing the limits to see where they lie; I suppose it's just human nature. When there are no rules, society starts resembling a lawless wasteland where the biggest bully runs the show.
And sure, bullies "need help"—specifically, they need to be shown, quite firmly, exactly where the line is drawn.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Bully culture isn't some special, vulnerable demographic in need of social services—that's a complete myth. Most of the time, you're just looking at spoiled kids who grew up without a single boundary in their lives.
I remember a thread where parents were complaining about how a preschooler would lash out at their child while Mom was busy on her iPhone. Those same kids are going to end up in the same elementary school as yours one day.
They are simply testing the limits to see where they lie; I suppose it's just human nature. When there are no rules, society starts resembling a lawless wasteland where the biggest bully runs the show.
And sure, bullies "need help"—specifically, they need to be shown, quite firmly, exactly where the line is drawn.

Yeah, it’s definitely a spoiled kid when a parent isn't paying attention.
But little bullies aren't always just spoiled; if they are, they usually aren't getting the love or affection they actually need. In many cases, these kids are actually neglected or being abused at home.
They obviously need help, but I think the right way to help is by setting clear boundaries that come with real consequences.

Jessica Howard5 said:Ribež Look, my priority is saving that kid. Moving him to a new environment might be one way to fix this. I’m no expert, so I won’t claim I have the right answer. All I know is that the parents of those seven abused kids are looking at moving them to a different school if things don't change immediately. They just can't let their children endure that torture any longer.
As for the boy, his parents completely dropped the ball. It honestly baffles me because they're intellectuals. Mom is a doctor, and Dad coaches a world-class athlete from Chicago—so he's likely a solid sports mentor. But the kid has been showing behavioral red flags since preschool. In my opinion, both the parents and the system failed him here. You could even link it to social status; his parents have connections and are well-known. I'll say it again: if it were a single mother working at a local factory, people would have reacted "drastically" by now, labeling her an unfit parent and calling it a day. My goal is helping the kid, but like I said, it feels late. He's already too deep in it.
Example 1.
He corners a little girl in front of a huge crowd and tells her how her dad doesn't actually go on business trips, but just rents hotel rooms to cheat on her mom.
Example 2.
He traps another girl in a corner of the classroom, crowds her space, and starts saying creepy stuff about being turned on by her.
Example 3.
He leaves school early and burns the tires off one of the girls' bikes.
Example 4.
He ripped a page out of a boy's math homework because the kid wouldn't write the assignment in his folder during recess.
Example 5.
He and his followers ambush a girl after school, gang up on her, and hit her under the eye with an ice pop, leaving a bruise.
All of this is documented. This has been happening since first grade and it's only getting worse.
What's the move? I'm telling you, the child needs saving ASAP, but does that have to happen at the expense of the other kids?

Based on what you've described—your school's guidance department is failing to do its job. What you're recounting is not normal, and if someone were doing this to my child, they wouldn't walk away unscathed.
Speaking from my perspective as a parent: I would call a parent meeting immediately if this was happening in a specific classroom, involving either all the parents in that class or specifically those whose children are being systematically bullied by this boy.
He bullies others because he hasn't learned any other way to get attention, given that he was raised without any real discipline at home; he's essentially nothing. It's tragic. No one has ever truly dealt with this child, so he only knows how to communicate this way, but if my child were the victim in a school setting, I wouldn't just sit there and take it.
An inspection is mandatory if you send them a collective petition or if you parents go directly to the district office with a formal complaint to lay out the problem. You should also contact Child Protective Services since the guidance department has clearly gone deaf and failed to act.
Local power players? I don't care about them. I've personally been in situations where everyone was connected through family ties, and I didn't back down. Not in the school system, perhaps, but within the CPS system. I took it to the state level and won the fight.
That woman over at the Community Center isn't even allowed to look my way anymore, because she absolutely botched her job, and despite being the director's niece, she didn't get any special treatment after what she did—it directly harmed me and my kid during our divorce proceedings.
Anyway, that’s a whole different story... I’m drifting a bit off-topic here.
But listen, you need leverage, and you need it now. You have to be smart, you have to be relentless, and for heaven's sake, you must document everything in writing. If you're going to file a grievance with, say, the Department Head or the school board, do it officially through paper trails and make sure you get a receipt confirming they actually received your complaint. "She said, he said" is useless in these situations. Find others who are feeling the same way, band together, and hit them with it all at once.