Student-teacher dynamics vs. parent-teacher dynamics

I can't do anything with just a single word like that. If you want me to get to work, give me some actual text to transform. I’m ready to go, but I need something to sink my teeth into. kaže:
I am certainly not making any sweeping generalizations here.☕
In my experience, if we’re being honest about how this actually plays out, the odds are roughly 60/40 in favor of those unreasonable parents who simply refuse to play ball, no matter how much you try to coordinate. I never claimed that absolutely nobody was willing to cooperate, but let's not pretend the math is on our side when dealing with that kind of stubbornness.😉
Look, you might not have explicitly claimed that every single parent is a walking saint, but believe me when I say—you would be absolutely stunned by how many of them genuinely believe they are. And the real kicker, the part that truly gets my blood boiling, is that it’s precisely these same people who shouldn't even be trusted with a basic set of kitchen utensils, let alone the responsibility of raising a child.
Look, I simply cannot be expected to exert any meaningful influence over a child who is being raised in an environment that constantly—and quite frankly, most often for absolutely no reason at all—seeks to belittle my professional expertise, and if I’m being honest, there seem to be more and more people like that popping up every single day.

I mean, seriously, what on earth would you do if you were actually standing in my shoes facing these two specific scenarios?

It’s an undeniable truth that hardly any parents are actually willing to cooperate these days. There is such a pitifully small number of people out there who genuinely give a damn. Look, I realize that every parent is subjective—we all have our biases—but for heaven's sake, when someone lays out nothing but cold, hard facts and undeniable evidence regarding another person's delinquent behavior, I would hope for a shred of decency. If I were in their shoes, I’d be reacting immediately, because at the end of the day, I actually care about my child's well-being.
It’s exactly the same when I head into parent-teacher conferences; the very first thing on the agenda is always behavior. That’s how it goes for my son, too. We don't even get around to actually looking at the grades until we've finished dealing with their commentary on how the kids are acting in class.
When our son was first heading off to high school, his father looked him right in the eye and delivered this heavy-handed piece of wisdom: "Son, the way people perceive you during those first few days? That’s going to set the tone for your entire academic career."
It’s honestly far better to fly under the radar in your own classroom than to have your entire reputation broadcasted to the whole damn high school.
Knock on wood—and I mean really knock on wood here—but our kids truly have such gentle souls that it honestly feels surreal; they’ve never once been involved in a scrap or even had a minor disagreement with their classmates.
I honestly have no clue how they’re pulling this off, but for the time being, they're actually making it work.
I am fully aware that my daughter’s classroom is currently being terrorized by a handful of boys who act like absolute little tyrants, and frankly, it’s exhausting just hearing about it. However, despite the chaos, she seems to have this innate ability to just stay clear of their nonsense; she avoids the drama entirely and refuses to engage in any of their petty power struggles, which—thankfully—means she’s doing just fine for the time being.
It’s almost like luck has this inherent, stubborn tendency to force a sense of calm upon everything in its path, which is frankly quite irritating because even I find myself being unexpectedly leveled by it.😁.

Charles Murphy6 said:Based on what you've described—your school's guidance department is failing to do its job. What you're recounting is not normal, and if someone were doing this to my child, they wouldn't walk away unscathed.
Speaking from my perspective as a parent: I would call a parent meeting immediately if this was happening in a specific classroom, involving either all the parents in that class or specifically those whose children are being systematically bullied by this boy.
He bullies others because he hasn't learned any other way to get attention, given that he was raised without any real discipline at home; he's essentially nothing. It's tragic. No one has ever truly dealt with this child, so he only knows how to communicate this way, but if my child were the victim in a school setting, I wouldn't just sit there and take it.
An inspection is mandatory if you send them a collective petition or if you parents go directly to the district office with a formal complaint to lay out the problem. You should also contact Child Protective Services since the guidance department has clearly gone deaf and failed to act.
Local power players? I don't care about them. I've personally been in situations where everyone was connected through family ties, and I didn't back down. Not in the school system, perhaps, but within the CPS system. I took it to the state level and won the fight.
That woman over at the Community Center isn't even allowed to look my way anymore, because she absolutely botched her job, and despite being the director's niece, she didn't get any special treatment after what she did—it directly harmed me and my kid during our divorce proceedings.
Anyway, that’s a whole different story... I’m drifting a bit off-topic here.
But listen, you need leverage, and you need it now. You have to be smart, you have to be relentless, and for heaven's sake, you must document everything in writing. If you're going to file a grievance with, say, the Department Head or the school board, do it officially through paper trails and make sure you get a receipt confirming they actually received your complaint. "She said, he said" is useless in these situations. Find others who are feeling the same way, band together, and hit them with it all at once.

Hmm, let’s be real: the inspectors aren't going to go toe-to-toe with local power players; they're too busy protecting their own seats. My take? File the report anyway, but don't hold your breath for any actual progress.

Jason Ortiz5 said:Someone please pinch me because I honestly can’t believe what I just read... Seriously, you just compared kids whispering in class to actually trampling two girls. 🤦 Look, I grew up in that generation where getting a smack or a heavy-handed lecture from a teacher was just part of the deal. And surprise, surprise—those "punishments" weren't exactly fair or balanced; they were basically just outlets for some angry teachers to blow off steam. You know how it went? A teacher would hear us talking—not counting the fact that she was gossiping outside the classroom herself—and she’d storm in like a whirlwind, charging between the desks to grab whoever she could or give someone a humiliating timeout. And no, I’m not traumatized or anything, I just learned what a medical diagnosis looked like at a very young age. ☕ It’s funny, though, because the most disciplined classrooms always belonged to the professors who barely ever raised their voices. They clearly had much better ways of handling things.

I’m not saying we shouldn't have consequences. But a punishment needs to actually mean something. It should be about teaching a lesson, not just a way for someone to flex their power and show everyone who's boss.

It wasn't a comparison, by the way...
Read with some comprehension... What "whispering in class" are you even talking about? My point was comparing them to violent students. If they are old enough to terrorize everyone around them, both physically and psychologically, then they are adults in my eyes. If they are capable of doing something like that, they are old enough to face the consequences. How long do you think we should keep "helping" aggressors? Until one day they push a victim in front of a truck? Is that when the bully and their parents will say, "Oh, they were just playing"?

If those kinds of "punishments"—like getting your hand flicked or whatever—actually affected you, then you're incredibly fragile, because clearly you learned nothing from it. In fact, even after being warned, you or your classmates just kept going. Sorry, but demonstrating force is part of our everyday reality; the strong push the weak, and right now, everything feels upside down. Do I need to Google articles about students hitting teachers or attacking their peers for you? Are you suggesting that's acceptable? And the parents? They’re stuck. If the victim's parents step in, they're the ones who end up getting reported, while the bully just keeps going because nobody can stop them. For how long? Sorry, but punishment has to be more than just a piece of paper. It needs real consequences. If that means suspension, or even losing a school year, why not? Do it five times if necessary! At least then they won't be able to terrorize everyone else anymore.

rowdypanther12 said:Yeah, it’s definitely a spoiled kid when a parent isn't paying attention.
But little bullies aren't always just spoiled; if they are, they usually aren't getting the love or affection they actually need. In many cases, these kids are actually neglected or being abused at home.
They obviously need help, but I think the right way to help is by setting clear boundaries that come with real consequences.

So what?☕
Am I supposed to feel sorry for a kid like that while they're busy bullying my own child—who hasn't done anything wrong—and piling on frustration or maybe even lasting trauma?

It's easy to deal with preschool bullies because they're small and the teachers can usually handle them.

Just wait until your kids are in elementary school; let's see if you still have all this empathy for those "poor, little, vulnerable" aggressors then.🙄😁

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Hmm, let’s be real: the inspectors aren't going to go toe-to-toe with local power players; they're too busy protecting their own seats. My take? File the report anyway, but don't hold your breath for any actual progress.

Exactly.

It's a sad reality.😢

James Perez54 said:So what?☕
Am I supposed to feel sorry for a kid like that while they're busy bullying my own child—who hasn't done anything wrong—and piling on frustration or maybe even lasting trauma?

It's easy to deal with preschool bullies because they're small and the teachers can usually handle them.

Just wait until your kids are in elementary school; let's see if you still have all this empathy for those "poor, little, vulnerable" aggressors then.🙄😁

I think you can react appropriately while still having empathy in your heart. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences or a real response. Just because I feel bad for someone and understand why they're acting out doesn't mean I should do nothing, or just give them a pat on the back.
In my view, bullies should either be separated from the group and sent for treatment, or kept in the group under strict supervision and professional guidance.
It really just depends on how serious the situation is.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Hmm, let’s be real: the inspectors aren't going to go toe-to-toe with local power players; they're too busy protecting their own seats. My take? File the report anyway, but don't hold your breath for any actual progress.

Fine, fair enough.
Then you take it up the ladder. If these local bureaucrats refuse to lift a finger, you bypass them entirely and head straight to the federal headquarters in D.C. if they won't act. Honestly, now is probably the best time to make noise, since the whole agency is under a massive microscope right now, with everyone's performance being scrutinized following the recent shift in administration. It's the exact same story with the regional offices—everyone is feeling the heat because leadership is finally looking closely at what they’re doing and how they’re doing it.

James Perez54 said:Exactly.

It's a sad reality.😢

Honestly, you have to look past the local inspectors who are too scared to act. You need to take this straight to the federal level, the department heads, or even hit up the news and national TV if that's what it takes.

rowdypanther12 said:I think you can react appropriately while still having empathy in your heart. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences or a real response. Just because I feel bad for someone and understand why they're acting out doesn't mean I should do nothing, or just give them a pat on the back.
In my view, bullies should either be separated from the group and sent for treatment, or kept in the group under strict supervision and professional guidance.
It really just depends on how serious the situation is.

To some degree, we all seem to agree on that here.

And maybe that’s how it’s written in various laws and legal codes.

But unfortunately, reality is quite different, and it will take a long time before anything significant actually changes.

rowdypanther12 said:Honestly, you have to look past the local inspectors who are too scared to act. You need to take this straight to the federal level, the department heads, or even hit up the news and national TV if that's what it takes.

Some people have tried (it's true, just not in this boy's case).

And what happened?

Nothing!

rowdypanther12 said:Back when I was in elementary school, the threat of expulsion actually kept kids somewhat in check. Even then, we had kids stabbing knives into desks and stuff like that. Yeah, even more than 20 years ago, some kids acted out just like this 😁
but having that one tool—expulsion—meant they actually feared the consequences. And of course, once you're expelled, continuing your education usually means heading to alternative programs. My best friend ended up in one of those programs after being kicked out, and looking back, I honestly think it helped her get her act together and find some stability.
It’s really kind to look at things through a compassionate lens, seeing a child who needs help rather than someone who is inherently bad, but just a product of their environment.
I completely agree with that, and I'm certain that most "bad" adults simply missed out on getting the support they needed during their childhood.
However, I think it might be a bit naive and idealistic to suggest that sanctions aren't necessary. Kids know they can get away with anything. They realize they can do whatever comes to mind without facing any real repercussions. If they commit a serious crime, they know they'll just spend six months in a juvenile detention center and be back. If they cause chaos at school, they know nothing will happen to them.
You can say what you want, but that way of thinking just isn't realistic.

Those detention centers still exist today, and kids are still sent there if the relevant authorities decide it's necessary.
In these facilities, they might undergo observation (diagnosis) and then be referred to a residential treatment center, a group home, or a foster care setting—though they can also stay with their own families.

Not much has changed in the last 20 years.
I'm not quite sure what you meant by that. 🤷

And I still don't understand how threatening a kid who's just being disruptive with expulsion could possibly motivate them to actually show up to school. 🤣
I would actually love for someone to explain that to me. 🙂

I never said sanctions weren't needed, but certain generalized sanctions—which are what usually get proposed—just aren't effective. Applying the same punishment to everyone regardless of context is pointless. It's just as illogical to punish a child who disrupts class by sending them to a residential facility while the parent at home remains unpunished despite being abusive or aggressive. In that scenario, the parent basically gets more free time as a "reward" and doesn't have to worry about providing food or supervision for the child.
To me, that feels incredibly unfair, and it sends a terrible long-term message to both that child and the rest of the student body.
As long as parents don't face consequences for their child's behavior, nothing is going to change.
Legally speaking, for a parent who fails to provide proper upbringing, the current recourse is mostly just removing the child and placing them in state care.

A child might disrupt class for many reasons: maybe the material is too easy, they have gaps in their knowledge, it's too hard due to learning disabilities, or there are major crises happening at home that are more pressing than math homework. It could also be because a teacher is picking on them or another student is bullying them.
Theoretically, you could have five students acting out with the exact same behavior, but each one has a completely different story behind it. I agree that there needs to be a consequence for the behavior to stop and to signal to all kids what is acceptable, but we primarily need to address the underlying issues and provide support for positive behaviors instead.

Paul Wilson72 said:It wasn't a comparison, by the way...
Read with some comprehension... What "whispering in class" are you even talking about? My point was comparing them to violent students. If they are old enough to terrorize everyone around them, both physically and psychologically, then they are adults in my eyes. If they are capable of doing something like that, they are old enough to face the consequences. How long do you think we should keep "helping" aggressors? Until one day they push a victim in front of a truck? Is that when the bully and their parents will say, "Oh, they were just playing"?

If those kinds of "punishments"—like getting your hand flicked or whatever—actually affected you, then you're incredibly fragile, because clearly you learned nothing from it. In fact, even after being warned, you or your classmates just kept going. Sorry, but demonstrating force is part of our everyday reality; the strong push the weak, and right now, everything feels upside down. Do I need to Google articles about students hitting teachers or attacking their peers for you? Are you suggesting that's acceptable? And the parents? They’re stuck. If the victim's parents step in, they're the ones who end up getting reported, while the bully just keeps going because nobody can stop them. For how long? Sorry, but punishment has to be more than just a piece of paper. It needs real consequences. If that means suspension, or even losing a school year, why not? Do it five times if necessary! At least then they won't be able to terrorize everyone else anymore.

Since you're bringing up American laws, do you actually know how many people get wrongfully convicted over there, only to be proven innocent years later? That's just one example of how "reliable" the US legal system can be. Plus, you've got six-year-olds being charged with sexual abuse stuff, or parents losing their kids because some creep misinterprets a totally normal family photo as something predatory. It’s a country where someone’s entire life and career can be trashed just because they told a coworker she looks good in her new haircut. You really sure you want to use their justice system as your gold standard?

And what's even the point of just throwing punishment at people without any actual rehab or guidance? Is the goal just to let someone serve time only for them to come out and do something even worse? Honestly, behind every kid acting out, there’s usually a parent who dropped the ball somewhere along the line. Are we going to punish the kids and then what? Send the parents to jail too?

If getting a little slap on the wrist was enough to mess you up, then you're honestly just super fragile, and clearly didn't learn a thing from it... I mean, even after being warned, you or others in the class just kept right on going...

Having a bit of trouble with reading comprehension? I made it very clear that back then, whoever was closest to the situation got caught, not necessarily the person who actually did it. If you think there's any educational value in that, I'll just stop commenting before I get roasted. ☕

Paul Wilson72 said:The current state of our schools is a mess because kids today have all the rights but zero responsibilities. There isn’t a single way to enforce discipline without triggering a massive public outcry or a wave of condemnation. I remember when I was in elementary school; there was actually a sense of order back then. Respect was expected. We wore uniforms, and if you were messy or disobedient, you might get a quick correction with a ruler or a flick to the fingers—not even for major offenses, just for things like whispering in class or neglecting your duties. For more serious issues, students were simply suspended. Parents would show up at the principal's office red-faced with shame, and by that evening, the kids were already feeling the sting of discipline at home. People call that system flawed, and sure, maybe it was, but it was incredibly efficient and decisive. Honestly, I'm sick of hearing about "children's rights," child advocates, and all this endless talk about protecting them. Legally, adulthood starts at 18, but it shouldn't feel like they magically transform overnight. If someone is capable of committing crimes, terrorizing those around them, or repeatedly disrespecting everyone in their orbit, then they aren't socialized, and the rest of society shouldn't have to suffer for it. Take that case where a 16-year-old picks up two girls in a high-powered BMW in downtown Miami; most people would want to see him face real consequences, and frankly, they'd be right! But no, he’s "just a kid," and his reward is getting sent off to a fancy boarding school in Switzerland. That is the exact message our education and legal systems are sending. This behavior is being taught from a young age. These kids face absolutely no repercussions for how they act, whether at school or at home. In fact, parents often reward them with iPhones or cars instead of holding them accountable for their actions.
Anyone who thinks we can save these children using the current methods is delusional. And let me ask you: who is going to protect the truly innocent victims from these bullies? I recall a case where "blood is thicker than water"—where an aggressor, with full parental support, was terrorizing a young girl while the authorities did absolutely nothing. It ended with the girl's father stepping in to defend her, only for him to be the one reported to the police while the bully just laughs in his face. Unfortunately, that seems to be daily life now. These unadjusted individuals are protected like endangered species. It feels like the only solution left is for the victims to take matters into their own hands—to gang up and settle it with a baseball bat. Since they're "just kids," nobody gets in trouble, and the bully gets a few months off before returning to school to torment someone else. Sorry, I know I’ll get torn apart for suggesting a scenario like that, but what other choice do these victims have? Parents aren't allowed to defend them, and schools either can't or won't act.
As long as things stay this way, our entire society will continue to decline. Someone mentioned Austria earlier, but it's the same in Germany, where teachers are treated with actual respect. Here, they are insulted, reassigned to random districts, or harassed by inspectors if they don't cater to every single whim of these "kids"—who, let's be honest, are old enough to know better by now.

That’s just not true.

...and zero responsibilities

Again, incorrect.

back in the day, if you caused trouble or were disrespectful, you'd get a ruler or a switch across the knuckles
(...)
the kids who got their butts kicked—whose parents were called in—would already be showing red marks from the switch by that very evening.

Maybe try relaxing just a little bit instead of suggesting physical punishment is the answer to every single problem.

Susan James said:Those detention centers still exist today, and kids are still sent there if the relevant authorities decide it's necessary.
In these facilities, they might undergo observation (diagnosis) and then be referred to a residential treatment center, a group home, or a foster care setting—though they can also stay with their own families.

Not much has changed in the last 20 years.
I'm not quite sure what you meant by that. 🤷

And I still don't understand how threatening a kid who's just being disruptive with expulsion could possibly motivate them to actually show up to school. 🤣
I would actually love for someone to explain that to me. 🙂

I never said sanctions weren't needed, but certain generalized sanctions—which are what usually get proposed—just aren't effective. Applying the same punishment to everyone regardless of context is pointless. It's just as illogical to punish a child who disrupts class by sending them to a residential facility while the parent at home remains unpunished despite being abusive or aggressive. In that scenario, the parent basically gets more free time as a "reward" and doesn't have to worry about providing food or supervision for the child.
To me, that feels incredibly unfair, and it sends a terrible long-term message to both that child and the rest of the student body.
As long as parents don't face consequences for their child's behavior, nothing is going to change.
Legally speaking, for a parent who fails to provide proper upbringing, the current recourse is mostly just removing the child and placing them in state care.

A child might disrupt class for many reasons: maybe the material is too easy, they have gaps in their knowledge, it's too hard due to learning disabilities, or there are major crises happening at home that are more pressing than math homework. It could also be because a teacher is picking on them or another student is bullying them.
Theoretically, you could have five students acting out with the exact same behavior, but each one has a completely different story behind it. I agree that there needs to be a consequence for the behavior to stop and to signal to all kids what is acceptable, but we primarily need to address the underlying issues and provide support for positive behaviors instead.

I certainly hope you aren't suggesting that a child should be left alone with a parent like that.

Susan James said:Those detention centers still exist today, and kids are still sent there if the relevant authorities decide it's necessary.
In these facilities, they might undergo observation (diagnosis) and then be referred to a residential treatment center, a group home, or a foster care setting—though they can also stay with their own families.

Not much has changed in the last 20 years.
I'm not quite sure what you meant by that. 🤷

And I still don't understand how threatening a kid who's just being disruptive with expulsion could possibly motivate them to actually show up to school. 🤣
I would actually love for someone to explain that to me. 🙂

I never said sanctions weren't needed, but certain generalized sanctions—which are what usually get proposed—just aren't effective. Applying the same punishment to everyone regardless of context is pointless. It's just as illogical to punish a child who disrupts class by sending them to a residential facility while the parent at home remains unpunished despite being abusive or aggressive. In that scenario, the parent basically gets more free time as a "reward" and doesn't have to worry about providing food or supervision for the child.
To me, that feels incredibly unfair, and it sends a terrible long-term message to both that child and the rest of the student body.
As long as parents don't face consequences for their child's behavior, nothing is going to change.
Legally speaking, for a parent who fails to provide proper upbringing, the current recourse is mostly just removing the child and placing them in state care.

A child might disrupt class for many reasons: maybe the material is too easy, they have gaps in their knowledge, it's too hard due to learning disabilities, or there are major crises happening at home that are more pressing than math homework. It could also be because a teacher is picking on them or another student is bullying them.
Theoretically, you could have five students acting out with the exact same behavior, but each one has a completely different story behind it. I agree that there needs to be a consequence for the behavior to stop and to signal to all kids what is acceptable, but we primarily need to address the underlying issues and provide support for positive behaviors instead.

I don't get the whole temporary suspension thing either, but honestly, expulsion is something kids used to be genuinely afraid of. You lose your friends and have to transfer to a new school where everyone knows you got kicked out of your old one.

And regarding detention centers, I was trying to say that in the past, kids were sent there for things that seem pretty minor compared to what we hear about now.
A friend of mine ended up in a residential program (she just attended school there under supervision) because she was cutting class constantly and showed up to school on a Saturday morning still hungover from Friday night.
From what I understand, the kids placed in those intensive treatment programs are usually the ones involved in serious things like robbery or even homicide.

Jason Ortiz5 said:Since you're bringing up American laws, do you actually know how many people get wrongfully convicted over there, only to be proven innocent years later? That's just one example of how "reliable" the US legal system can be. Plus, you've got six-year-olds being charged with sexual abuse stuff, or parents losing their kids because some creep misinterprets a totally normal family photo as something predatory. It’s a country where someone’s entire life and career can be trashed just because they told a coworker she looks good in her new haircut. You really sure you want to use their justice system as your gold standard?

And what's even the point of just throwing punishment at people without any actual rehab or guidance? Is the goal just to let someone serve time only for them to come out and do something even worse? Honestly, behind every kid acting out, there’s usually a parent who dropped the ball somewhere along the line. Are we going to punish the kids and then what? Send the parents to jail too?

If getting a little slap on the wrist was enough to mess you up, then you're honestly just super fragile, and clearly didn't learn a thing from it... I mean, even after being warned, you or others in the class just kept right on going...

Having a bit of trouble with reading comprehension? I made it very clear that back then, whoever was closest to the situation got caught, not necessarily the person who actually did it. If you think there's any educational value in that, I'll just stop commenting before I get roasted. ☕

Fast forward to America... our little land of milk and honey. It’s not like nobody gets wrongly convicted here, right? Actually, you might have a point. In our system, murderers, rapists, and thieves often walk out of court receiving praise and recognition for their "contributions"—and it works by design. The bigger and more powerful you are, the more accolades you get while the actual punishment remains non-existent. Honestly, the harshest sentence we probably see is given to a thief who steals a loaf of bread just to feed his family.
I wonder at what exact age a child becomes responsible for their own actions? You claim that in America, kids are taken away for the most minor reasons, but here, it seems like they’re only taken away for how they were raised? Actually, it usually happens in families facing real issues, like domestic violence or alcoholism. Even then, authorities often hesitate to step in unless parents are actively trying to care for their children (you see examples of teen parents fighting for their kids, running from social services, and hiding just to get support). Unlike the US, in America, bosses and colleagues tend to kiss each other's asses and engage in workplace bullying where no one intervenes. The victim ends up looking like the fool and is eventually forced to find a new job. Are you truly satisfied with the American legal system—or rather, its enforcement? Because the laws themselves aren't necessarily bad; it's just that they aren't applied.

Jason Ortiz5 said:Since you're bringing up American laws, do you actually know how many people get wrongfully convicted over there, only to be proven innocent years later? That's just one example of how "reliable" the US legal system can be. Plus, you've got six-year-olds being charged with sexual abuse stuff, or parents losing their kids because some creep misinterprets a totally normal family photo as something predatory. It’s a country where someone’s entire life and career can be trashed just because they told a coworker she looks good in her new haircut. You really sure you want to use their justice system as your gold standard?

And what's even the point of just throwing punishment at people without any actual rehab or guidance? Is the goal just to let someone serve time only for them to come out and do something even worse? Honestly, behind every kid acting out, there’s usually a parent who dropped the ball somewhere along the line. Are we going to punish the kids and then what? Send the parents to jail too?

If getting a little slap on the wrist was enough to mess you up, then you're honestly just super fragile, and clearly didn't learn a thing from it... I mean, even after being warned, you or others in the class just kept right on going...

Having a bit of trouble with reading comprehension? I made it very clear that back then, whoever was closest to the situation got caught, not necessarily the person who actually did it. If you think there's any educational value in that, I'll just stop commenting before I get roasted. ☕

The purpose is to free the victims of that violence and the perpetrators from living in constant fear. It sounds like the aggressor is the victim in this scenario??? Fine, then who is going to speak up for the actual victims? A colleague pointed me toward this documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1g9RV9OKhg so let's see who the real victim is. Who is going to stand on the side of those children? As someone once wisely said, it's easy to philosophize, but it's a different story when someone tries to terrorize their own child. Perpetrators need to be punished first, and *then* rehabilitated. Without consequences, they don't realize their behavior matters, and we end up sending them the message that what they did was perfectly fine...

Jason Ortiz5 said:Since you're bringing up American laws, do you actually know how many people get wrongfully convicted over there, only to be proven innocent years later? That's just one example of how "reliable" the US legal system can be. Plus, you've got six-year-olds being charged with sexual abuse stuff, or parents losing their kids because some creep misinterprets a totally normal family photo as something predatory. It’s a country where someone’s entire life and career can be trashed just because they told a coworker she looks good in her new haircut. You really sure you want to use their justice system as your gold standard?

And what's even the point of just throwing punishment at people without any actual rehab or guidance? Is the goal just to let someone serve time only for them to come out and do something even worse? Honestly, behind every kid acting out, there’s usually a parent who dropped the ball somewhere along the line. Are we going to punish the kids and then what? Send the parents to jail too?

If getting a little slap on the wrist was enough to mess you up, then you're honestly just super fragile, and clearly didn't learn a thing from it... I mean, even after being warned, you or others in the class just kept right on going...

Having a bit of trouble with reading comprehension? I made it very clear that back then, whoever was closest to the situation got caught, not necessarily the person who actually did it. If you think there's any educational value in that, I'll just stop commenting before I get roasted. ☕

Well, that sounds lovely... we used to be rewarded based on our merit... ☕

Nicholas King said:That’s just not true.

...and zero responsibilities

Again, incorrect.

back in the day, if you caused trouble or were disrespectful, you'd get a ruler or a switch across the knuckles
(...)
the kids who got their butts kicked—whose parents were called in—would already be showing red marks from the switch by that very evening.

Maybe try relaxing just a little bit instead of suggesting physical punishment is the answer to every single problem.

Prove me wrong... and I don't mean show me some paperwork...
It wasn't about violence. Otherwise, would you claim that men going into the military were being abused rather than disciplined when they had to scrub a floor for the fifth time? Nowadays, students in American schools are so "protected" that someone can practically spit in your face without any consequences. You might choose to turn the other cheek, but I certainly won't. That kind of behavior in an American classroom is unacceptable. At the end of the day, there are still final exams that serve as a proper consequence for such conduct. If you can't behave in class, you can start worrying about your future academic prospects.

rowdypanther12 said:I don't get the whole temporary suspension thing either, but honestly, expulsion is something kids used to be genuinely afraid of. You lose your friends and have to transfer to a new school where everyone knows you got kicked out of your old one.

And regarding detention centers, I was trying to say that in the past, kids were sent there for things that seem pretty minor compared to what we hear about now.
A friend of mine ended up in a residential program (she just attended school there under supervision) because she was cutting class constantly and showed up to school on a Saturday morning still hungover from Friday night.
From what I understand, the kids placed in those intensive treatment programs are usually the ones involved in serious things like robbery or even homicide.

Temporary suspension is actually an excellent tool; I know they implement it in Austria, and from what I’ve heard recently, even in Germany. It gives a student a moment to actually reflect on their actions instead of just plotting their next move. Furthermore, parents aren't exactly thrilled when their kid gets sent home like that, which certainly doesn't make for a pleasant household environment.

Are you actually suggesting that the military shouldn't be a training ground for abusing subordinates?
This feels like that debate over corporal punishment taken to an extreme—if you're totally against it, you might as well let a kid climb on the ceiling and crap on everyone's heads.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Temporary suspension is actually an excellent tool; I know they implement it in Austria, and from what I’ve heard recently, even in Germany. It gives a student a moment to actually reflect on their actions instead of just plotting their next move. Furthermore, parents aren't exactly thrilled when their kid gets sent home like that, which certainly doesn't make for a pleasant household environment.

Then again, if parents are already struggling with their child's behavior or frustrated by the discipline, staying home won't exactly be a pleasant experience for them either.
Looking back at my own school days, I honestly wouldn't have minded a week off 🤣 if that was the consequence. If it's just a break from class, I don't really see the point. 🤷
On a more technical note though, where are these kids actually supposed to go? I'm curious about where they stay when they're suspended from school.

rowdypanther12 said:Then again, if parents are already struggling with their child's behavior or frustrated by the discipline, staying home won't exactly be a pleasant experience for them either.
Looking back at my own school days, I honestly wouldn't have minded a week off 🤣 if that was the consequence. If it's just a break from class, I don't really see the point. 🤷
On a more technical note though, where are these kids actually supposed to go? I'm curious about where they stay when they're suspended from school.

Look, most parents simply don't care. Kids act out precisely because their parents fail to step up and get involved. It’s basic logic: when a student is forced to stay home instead of heading to class, they’ll finally have something to think about.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Look, most parents simply don't care. Kids act out precisely because their parents fail to step up and get involved. It’s basic logic: when a student is forced to stay home instead of heading to class, they’ll finally have something to think about.

🤷
I don't really see how that would be enough to make my parents change how they handle things.
But even if it was, you're still basically giving a kid a free week to just sit around, watch TV, and surf the web—assuming the parents can even keep them in the house long enough to supervise them.🤷