Why did Jesus die?

Well, I’ve got to head out now. Honestly, people, God gave you all a sense of reason—so when you actually find yourselves in a position to use it, for heaven's sake, stir things up a bit and put that blessing to work. As Jesus said, "for whoever has will be given more, and whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken away," so please, just watch yourselves; don't end up losing even that tiny shred of common sense you have left. Anyway, I'm off.

velvetmaker39 said:Well, I’ve got to head out now. Honestly, people, God gave you all a sense of reason—so when you actually find yourselves in a position to use it, for heaven's sake, stir things up a bit and put that blessing to work. As Jesus said, "for whoever has will be given more, and whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken away," so please, just watch yourselves; don't end up losing even that tiny shred of common sense you have left. Anyway, I'm off.

👍
I am in complete agreement with you. Our ways of thinking are remarkably similar—truly. If I may be so bold as to add one thing: I highly doubt the Christians (or even the Muslims) are going to see eye to eye with you on this.

Harold Reyes3 said:

Your issue is just like a Muslim who refuses to acknowledge Jesus's intervention and message because they've put all their chips on Muhammad. You're going to lose everything because you didn't put your faith in the one who said, "Salvation comes through me alone."

You don't believe in Jesus any more than I do. As Muslims, we are the only faith outside of Christianity that includes belief in Jesus Christ in our core tenets. If you don't believe in Jesus, you aren't a Muslim, period.

And honestly, what you're saying makes zero sense to me. It’s totally illogical to suggest he would come here to die for my sins if I'm the one committing them. I should be the one answering for my own mistakes.

Think about it: would it be fair for a judge to punish you for my crimes? Like, if I murder an innocent person, and then the court looks at you and says, "You're carrying Aaron's sins, so you're the one going to jail," is that justice? No way! It isn't!

It's the exact same thing with Jesus. And what does it even mean to you, this idea that he carries our sins? Does it mean we can sin as much as we want and still slide into heaven just because you claim Jesus paid the tab? That kind of thinking is dangerous. If people believe they can just do whatever they want because Jesus already redeemed them, it could lead to absolute chaos!🙄

Look, Christianity teaches that we’re responsible for cleaning up our own messes through self-reflection and repentance. That’s what Jesus teaches. I already wrote that He provides us with extra strength—His Spirit—to actually get it done. But you? You're completely missing my point, and honestly, it’s pretty sad.

So what’s your take on that idea—that God sees Mary within the Trinity?🤣

Benjamin Taylor6 said:👍
I am in complete agreement with you. Our ways of thinking are remarkably similar—truly. If I may be so bold as to add one thing: I highly doubt the Christians (or even the Muslims) are going to see eye to eye with you on this.

There is a crucial element missing from this discussion, though: will the actual BELIEVERS ever reach a consensus? It might not matter which specific denomination you belong to, but rather whether you actually hold the faith in your heart or if you're just going through the motions.

velvetmaker39 said:There is a crucial element missing from this discussion, though: will the actual BELIEVERS ever reach a consensus? It might not matter which specific denomination you belong to, but rather whether you actually hold the faith in your heart or if you're just going through the motions.

Believers have to follow their theologians. If they don't, they face excommunication.
And why am I even participating in this? It reminds me of something Jim Morrison once sang:
Everyone expects me to dig into the core essence of things, but even Aristotle—God knows if he ever did—never really touched on the actual substance of it all. And yet, here we are, still breathing.

Henry Williams said:It sounds like you aren't really familiar with Christianity or its actual teachings. What do you mean, "what priests"? Jesus dying on the cross for human sins is the single most important thing in Christianity. It’s the entire foundation.
God became human specifically so He could die for us. That's why we say in Christianity that God is love.

I think you guys are watching way too many soap operas...

Jack White10 said:I think you guys are watching way too many soap operas...

Real genius right there.

But honestly? I’d much rather spend my afternoon watching soap operas than reading the Quran.

Henry Williams said:Real genius right there.

But honestly? I’d much rather spend my afternoon watching soap operas than reading the Quran.

I’d much rather read the Quran than sit through a soap opera—it's just that I don't have a copy lying around at home.

I’d honestly rather spend my time reading the Quran than sitting through some mindless soap opera. Problem is, I don't have a copy at my place.

Well, there you go! You've got the whole Quran right here. Definitely worth checking out whenever you have a spare moment 😁
you might actually find something useful in there

http://www.islamiccommunity.org/quran/quran_en.htm

Harold Reyes3 said:

I’d honestly rather spend my time reading the Quran than sitting through some mindless soap opera. Problem is, I don't have a copy at my place.

Well, there you go! You've got the whole Quran right here. Definitely worth checking out whenever you have a spare moment 😁
you might actually find something useful in there

http://www.islamiccommunity.org/quran/quran_en.htm

THANKS MUCH👍

Angela Martin20 said:And let’s not forget—there’s really only one Truth 😉
We can’t even wrap our heads around an absolute God, you know? That kind of power that actually designed the entire universe... but "relative" truth? Well, that could be anything. Maybe it’s exactly how the Bible describes it, or maybe we're just looking at the leader of some superior race that planted life here in the first place. I mean, we probably just call it 'God' because we're so awestruck by whatever force actually built this whole thing. 🙂

Lol, this whole "alien theory" thing... what is that actually supposed to imply? Who created them? It doesn't matter, right? They were just aliens. Lol.

There is so much deception 😉 but what if it truly is impossible to comprehend "God"? If that's the case, then what is the point, and why all this chaotic confusion?

I stopped dwelling on this phenomenon a long time ago. It strikes me as rather curious that most religions on this planet claim to follow the "one true God"... I mean, really? Is anyone actually buying this?

Would the truth really be so devastating if God doesn't exist and it was all just fabrications? Because when you look closely, every religion essentially denies the "truth" of every other one... lol, aren't these questions fascinatingly bleak? 👍

Henry Williams said:It sounds like you aren't really familiar with Christianity or its actual teachings. What do you mean, "what priests"? Jesus dying on the cross for human sins is the single most important thing in Christianity. It’s the entire foundation.
God became human specifically so He could die for us. That's why we say in Christianity that God is love.

I suppose I understand that this is what the church teaches. However, I suspect it isn't actually the teaching of Jesus himself, given that he wasn't crucified.

Henry Williams said:It sounds like you aren't really familiar with Christianity or its actual teachings. What do you mean, "what priests"? Jesus dying on the cross for human sins is the single most important thing in Christianity. It’s the entire foundation.
God became human specifically so He could die for us. That's why we say in Christianity that God is love.

People die regardless, and I don't think anyone actually dies for anyone else.

As for this whole "atonement for sin" concept, it feels like something the church invented just to implement a tax on faith.
It essentially forces you to hand over money to a priest just to be told you're going to heaven.

The system works quite efficiently, I suppose, simply because so many people want to get into heaven.
One just accepts the lie that someone washed away their sins, and that's that. 🙄

rowdyhawk10 said:I suppose I understand that this is what the church teaches. However, I suspect it isn't actually the teaching of Jesus himself, given that he wasn't crucified.

People die regardless, and I don't think anyone actually dies for anyone else.

As for this whole "atonement for sin" concept, it feels like something the church invented just to implement a tax on faith.
It essentially forces you to hand over money to a priest just to be told you're going to heaven.

The system works quite efficiently, I suppose, simply because so many people want to get into heaven.
One just accepts the lie that someone washed away their sins, and that's that. 🙄

God becoming man... 🤣

Nah, that's just some weird fringe doctrine. 🙂 Look, if that bothers you, honestly? That’s on you.

rowdyhawk10 said:I suppose I understand that this is what the church teaches. However, I suspect it isn't actually the teaching of Jesus himself, given that he wasn't crucified.

People die regardless, and I don't think anyone actually dies for anyone else.

As for this whole "atonement for sin" concept, it feels like something the church invented just to implement a tax on faith.
It essentially forces you to hand over money to a priest just to be told you're going to heaven.

The system works quite efficiently, I suppose, simply because so many people want to get into heaven.
One just accepts the lie that someone washed away their sins, and that's that. 🙄

God becoming man... 🤣

I've noticed you're quite the fan of those wild conspiracy theories. If I remember right, you even shared a link to that movie *Zeitgeist*, didn't you? 😂 That’s exactly why I’m starting to wonder if there’s even any point in talking to you.

And why on earth are you laughing at what I just wrote?

Oh, please, what conspiracy? It’s just business... nothing personal, alright? ☕

It is quite fascinating, I suppose, how something supposedly so noble and divine can be so inherently intolerant and hypocritical.

Picas, why are you laughing at him while simultaneously dropping smileys and acting like it's all a joke? You're mocking him... in the spirit of faith, I assume? 👎

rowdyhawk10 said:I suppose I understand that this is what the church teaches. However, I suspect it isn't actually the teaching of Jesus himself, given that he wasn't crucified.

People die regardless, and I don't think anyone actually dies for anyone else.

As for this whole "atonement for sin" concept, it feels like something the church invented just to implement a tax on faith.
It essentially forces you to hand over money to a priest just to be told you're going to heaven.

The system works quite efficiently, I suppose, simply because so many people want to get into heaven.
One just accepts the lie that someone washed away their sins, and that's that. 🙄

God becoming man... 🤣

🙏
All we're missing here is one Jehovah's Witness to make this whole circus complete. 😂
Of course, any Muslim is going to have an official stance from Islamic theologians regarding death and the atonement of the sins of Jesus of Nazareth. And their take is basically: "What kind of atonement is this nonsense?" It makes Allah look like some pagan deity demanding a child sacrifice just to show mercy. In this version, Allah gives his own only son as a sacrifice!? All to pay for a sin that Adam and Eve committed back in the Garden of Eden—a sin that spread through humanity like a genetic disease! 😲

So, which God became human?
In Christianity (though not their specific version): Jesus of Nazareth.
In Hinduism (again, not their version): Krishna.
There are plenty more, but they aren't really worth discussing since they fall under ancient mythology, and frankly, most people today couldn't care less about that stuff.

If you want to talk about something that’s totally irrational and defies all logic, we have to talk about Jesus’ death and resurrection!

I mean, think about it. You’ve got an almighty God—someone who is supposed to be all-powerful—choosing to send Jesus, who is actually Himself, just to carry out a suicide mission to pay for human sins!🤣

To me, these are just plain facts, and honestly, it’s where the whole argument ends right there. It just goes to show how incredibly imaginative the human mind can be, fueled by these wild hallucinations about an all-powerful God who, for some reason, felt the need to pull off something so nonsensical!

silentviper19 said:If you want to talk about something that’s totally irrational and defies all logic, we have to talk about Jesus’ death and resurrection!

I mean, think about it. You’ve got an almighty God—someone who is supposed to be all-powerful—choosing to send Jesus, who is actually Himself, just to carry out a suicide mission to pay for human sins!🤣

To me, these are just plain facts, and honestly, it’s where the whole argument ends right there. It just goes to show how incredibly imaginative the human mind can be, fueled by these wild hallucinations about an all-powerful God who, for some reason, felt the need to pull off something so nonsensical!

But hey, billions of people believe it, just like you believe snow is white!!!😲

Benjamin Taylor6 I didn't catch what was said there! It looks like the message got cut off or maybe I missed the memo. If you were trying to share something, go ahead and drop it again—I'm all ears!
I mean, look, a billion people believe it! It’s just like how you know snow is white, right? It's an absolute given. Total fact.😲

See, that’s exactly where they trip up. It’s like, look, even a regular believer can look outside at a blizzard and say, "Hey, that snow is white," right? That's just common sense. You use your brain, you see the color, you move on. But when it comes to the big stuff—like knowing for a fact that Jesus rose from the dead—that's not something you just stumble upon by looking out a window. Nobody actually *knows* that through pure logic or observation alone, except for what's written in the New Testament. And yet, they just take it as absolute gospel without a second thought! It's wild how that works.

Look, if you look at things from my perspective, most Christians around here don't actually buy that the whole world was just whipped up in six days about 7,000 years ago. You know, that idea where God takes a breather on the seventh day after finishing everything in Genesis? It’s just not what most people think. I remember talking to a buddy of mine over coffee last week—we were sitting in this little diner in Chicago—and we were chatting about how much science and faith overlap these days. Anyway, whenever someone tries to throw that literalist view at them, they usually just shut down and say...Don't take that too literally, honestly. It’s really just symbolism. It belongs to an era where people weren't exactly raised with the kind of formal education we have today. I remember my old history teacher back in high school used to say something similar about how we interpret old texts—it's all about the context of the time, you know? Just look at the big picture.!!
But look, when you start talking about the Resurrection, the whole "it's just a metaphor" argument goes right out the window. There's no more debating symbols or deep meanings for them—it’s just a straight-up, undeniable fact. I mean, that's the entire bedrock of their faith! Without it, the whole thing just falls apart. It's the one thing they won't budge on.

John 3:13-17 "No one has ascended into heaven
except He who descended from heaven
the Son of Man
Just as Moses lifted up
the serpent in the wilderness
so must the Son of Man be lifted up
so that everyone who believes
in Him will have eternal life.
For God so loved the world
that He gave His Sinai firstborn
so that no one who believes in Him shall perish
but instead have eternal life.
For God did not send His Son into the world
to judge the world
but that the world might be saved through Him."

Taylor Reyes3 said:John 3:13-17 "No one has ascended into heaven
except He who descended from heaven
the Son of Man
Just as Moses lifted up
the serpent in the wilderness
so must the Son of Man be lifted up
so that everyone who believes
in Him will have eternal life.
For God so loved the world
that He gave His Sinai firstborn
so that no one who believes in Him shall perish
but instead have eternal life.
For God did not send His Son into the world
to judge the world
but that the world might be saved through Him."

If we take the Bible literally and assume Elijah was a real person rather than just some metaphorical figure, then he also ascended into heaven as the scripture states.
Enoch was taken up as well.

Does that make them the Son of Man too???