Why did Jesus die?

Angela Martin20 said:I feel like a complete idiot right now, but whatever
from what I gather, Jesus was accused of all sorts of things, but I'm really stuck on the part where he redeemed our sins through his death... like, why? How exactly does his passing lead to our salvation?

I guess one of his main goals was basically setting up a new faith that would stay close to the truth and guide people toward more positive thoughts and actions—though how successful that actually was is probably a whole different conversation—which would eventually lift human consciousness to a higher level. At one point during his mission, Palestine was totally split between those for him and those against him. Or, like, how Jesus put it—the father against the son, the daughter against the mother—and there was this real threat of a massive civil war breaking out, which probably would have just wiped out the few active followers left and shut down the whole movement before it even got going. So, maybe it was necessary for his life on Earth to reach the end of the world, because instead of just leaving behind a living leader who could be physically taken out, he created this legend that's impossible to destroy, and honestly, its impact ends up being way more effective than any living leader could ever be. Things like the resurrection, the earthquake, and the darkening of the Sun during the crucifixion, plus the way he appeared to his disciples later on, all helped build up that mystique and confirmed everything he always claimed—that he is God's son. Once that legend took hold, it just couldn't be stopped, and with the help of the Holy Spirit, the apostles spread this new religion everywhere, which likely wouldn't have happened if they had been caught up in a violent civil war.

🤦 Oh, come on, Gregory Jackson.... everyone else was just dying later on as martyrs for some political agenda... but hey, your logic is something else... 🤦

Jesus died to redeem us, acting as our shield against God's wrath.
2 Corinthians 5:21 God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

Jesus sacrificed Himself so we could enter Paradise. All of God's anger was poured out on Jesus instead of us; He stepped right into our place and took the blow, all so we could be justified through Him.

silenthound4 said:Jesus died to redeem us, acting as our shield against God's wrath.
2 Corinthians 5:21 God made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

Jesus sacrificed Himself so we could enter Paradise. All of God's anger was poured out on Jesus instead of us; He stepped right into our place and took the blow, all so we could be justified through Him.

This is just horror theology about a horror God.

No, I see it differently. To me, it’s proof that God is just, but He’s just as much about love as He is about justice. He could have chosen not to save us—that wouldn't make Him any less God—but we were the ones who turned our backs on Him. Yet, Jesus said in Heaven: "I will pay their debt because I love them!" He chose His life and His fate of His own free will. That is why we are justified through Him. He is the Lamb who redeemed humanity, the first person to ever stand before the Gates of Heaven and have them swing wide open for Him, because He truly earned it.

silenthound4 said:No, I see it differently. To me, it’s proof that God is just, but He’s just as much about love as He is about justice. He could have chosen not to save us—that wouldn't make Him any less God—but we were the ones who turned our backs on Him. Yet, Jesus said in Heaven: "I will pay their debt because I love them!" He chose His life and His fate of His own free will. That is why we are justified through Him. He is the Lamb who redeemed humanity, the first person to ever stand before the Gates of Heaven and have them swing wide open for Him, because He truly earned it.

If I remember right, the Father decided to sacrifice His Son. "Not my will, but Yours..."—which feels a bit clumsy if you ask me...

that's why we're justified in Him, because He is.

So this Father, instead of putting the Son first among all values because of His sacrifice, ends up making it look like the biggest sin is against the Holy Spirit—while anyone who beats the Son can basically be forgiven? Seriously? A real Father takes the hits himself and does everything to protect the Son's honor, right?

steelgardener22 said:If I remember right, the Father decided to sacrifice His Son. "Not my will, but Yours..."—which feels a bit clumsy if you ask me...

that's why we're justified in Him, because He is.

So this Father, instead of putting the Son first among all values because of His sacrifice, ends up making it look like the biggest sin is against the Holy Spirit—while anyone who beats the Son can basically be forgiven? Seriously? A real Father takes the hits himself and does everything to protect the Son's honor, right?

What do you mean "instead"? That is exactly what the Father does. He puts Jesus first through this act of devotion. Seriously, just read the Bible. Everyone will bow to Jesus forever because He did this, and the Father is giving Him all the glory.

silenthound4 said:What do you mean "instead"? That is exactly what the Father does. He puts Jesus first through this act of devotion. Seriously, just read the Bible. Everyone will bow to Jesus forever because He did this, and the Father is giving Him all the glory.

Fair enough, but I was noticing some other inconsistencies up there.

I also think the whole idea of Jesus' physical sacrifice is poorly framed—it's a weak comparison to those animal sacrifices back in the Old Testament.

If you're comfortable with English, give this video a watch. It'll make things a lot clearer for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPcsnciR6Jk

silenthound4 said:If you're comfortable with English, give this video a watch. It'll make things a lot clearer for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPcsnciR6Jk

I don't know. Check this out yourself if you want clarity:

Christ is the slain Lamb; that theme runs through the entire Bible, yet there’s just no clarity in your post

Look, if Jesus actually existed, then his death was basically a total waste of time.
Honestly, I don't even care about the historical proof or whether he was a real guy, what matters is sticking to what he taught back in the day, according to the stuff people wrote down ages ago.

I mean, seriously, what actually got better after he sacrificed himself?
People are still killing each other in his name, and the world is still crawling with hypocrisy and all those other bottom-of-the-barrel human impulses.
The worst part is that there are fewer and fewer people actually believing in Him.
And hell is just ruling over us and surrounding us, way more intense and widespread than it ever was during his era.

So, why the hell did Jesus die then?

Look, there are plenty of people out there who don't act that way. It’s just so much easier to take the lazy route, generalize everything, and claim everyone is inherently bad just so you can check out. Sure, people are flawed—we all are—but it’s through Christ that we actually find the strength to fix ourselves.

silenthound4 said:No, I see it differently. To me, it’s proof that God is just, but He’s just as much about love as He is about justice. He could have chosen not to save us—that wouldn't make Him any less God—but we were the ones who turned our backs on Him. Yet, Jesus said in Heaven: "I will pay their debt because I love them!" He chose His life and His fate of His own free will. That is why we are justified through Him. He is the Lamb who redeemed humanity, the first person to ever stand before the Gates of Heaven and have them swing wide open for Him, because He truly earned it.

So, like... what exactly did you screw up that was so bad Jesus had to catch a death sentence because of you? 🤷

I mean, seriously... what kind of debt did Jesus actually settle on your behalf? It’s wild to think that God would be some kind of hateful father. Just doesn't add up. 🤷 Suppose they had to settle for the death penalty.

It’s not just me, mistygull16—it's all of us, every single one of us

silenthound4 said:It’s not just me, mistygull16—it's all of us, every single one of us

Alright, let’s get specific here—in your own life, anyway. I haven't done anything nearly bad enough to deserve a death sentence, and honestly, if some king decided to sentence me to death, I'd just call him an unjust ruler🤷 I'm still stuck on what you actually did to make God so incredibly angry😕 Like, what exactly did He forgive you for?

If we were talking about a raise at work, sure, I'd be interested. But when the President hands out pardons? That's really only news for the folks sitting in a cell somewhere.

Because of that original sin passed down from our parents, none of us are exempt from making mistakes.

silenthound4 said:Because of that original sin passed down from our parents, none of us are exempt from making mistakes.

Look, you didn't choose that "sin." It was forced on you by some higher authority. I don't get how it's even your fault if God made you sinful from the jump. 🤷

God created you flawed without you having a say in it, and then expects the Son to die just because He made you that way... 🤷 honestly, it doesn't track.

The way I see it, if I want forgiveness, I actually have to mess up first, realize I'm an idiot, repent, and then ask for it.

A fair leader—like a President or a judge—doesn't punish everyone just because a group messed up; they go after the specific people who actually did the wrong thing.

I was watching this news segment on TV about a newborn baby in Chicago back in 2011, and they mentioned the kid was already "on the hook" for something like $4,000 in debt. Just imagine trying to put that baby or any other child on trial for owing $4,000. Total nightmare.

Sure, our grandkids will eventually deal with the national debt, but most people would agree it's totally UNFAIR to blame an individual for that. It’s unfair because we live in a messy, imperfect society.

So, bottom line? If God is actually perfect, He shouldn't be punishing individuals for what a collective group did.

silenthound4 said:🤦 Oh, come on, Gregory Jackson.... everyone else was just dying later on as martyrs for some political agenda... but hey, your logic is something else... 🤦

What kind of political goal are we even talking about here?? If they hadn't gone for an open confrontation, Christianity probably wouldn't have even survived, it would've been wiped out like a newborn baby. So, I suppose they had to sacrifice the leader just to save the rest of the family.