Man, society, progress, and spirituality

briskraven28 said:Progress won't "crush" us—we'll be crushed by our own inability to adapt, which is far more likely than anyone actually stepping up... self-pity is easier than growth. And genius is purely relative; compared to some cosmic intelligence, we're just basic idiots, even if we feel brilliant compared to the bottom of the barrel. We'll probably go out because of something trivial—an asteroid or the sun burning out—rather than tech itself. If we kill each other, it won't be because of progress, but again, due to sheer incompetence.
Evolution isn't about reaching a destination where everything is handled; it's about the struggle itself—the spirit of the challenge.
eros equals longing.
I find it hard to believe you actually aim for being an "average" person. Who even defines such a category?...

So, stupidity is the real threat. There is no evolutionary leap where we become super-geniuses capable of anticipating and solving every existential crisis. This brings us back to the original point: as a species, we have definitely bitten off more than we can chew.

slymaker9 said:So, Vertigo, let’s speculate for a second. What’s your take? Is technological progress going to crush us, or will we somehow evolve into geniuses capable of handling it all?

Personally, I consider myself an average person with average abilities. I approached this topic from that standpoint, which is also where most people sit. After all, those who know more are naturally better equipped to make accurate predictions.

So, do you think the human race survives in the long run? 🙂

Because even the scientists aren't so sure...

briskraven28 said:Progress won't "crush" us—we'll be crushed by our own inability to adapt, which is far more likely than anyone actually stepping up... self-pity is easier than growth. And genius is purely relative; compared to some cosmic intelligence, we're just basic idiots, even if we feel brilliant compared to the bottom of the barrel. We'll probably go out because of something trivial—an asteroid or the sun burning out—rather than tech itself. If we kill each other, it won't be because of progress, but again, due to sheer incompetence.
Evolution isn't about reaching a destination where everything is handled; it's about the struggle itself—the spirit of the challenge.
eros equals longing.
I find it hard to believe you actually aim for being an "average" person. Who even defines such a category?...

It’s what happens when you plot a person's traits and abilities on a Gaussian curve and they land right in the middle.

slymaker9 said:So, stupidity is the real threat. There is no evolutionary leap where we become super-geniuses capable of anticipating and solving every existential crisis. This brings us back to the original point: as a species, we have definitely bitten off more than we can chew.

Yeah, if it were up to us. Hardly anyone thinks in terms of Darwinism anymore—if not for other reasons, then just because that kind of future scenario is too depressing to face...

slymaker9 said:It’s what happens when you plot a person's traits and abilities on a Gaussian curve and they land right in the middle.

Man, everything about this... I was almost ready to give the exact same answer to that question...

briskraven28 said:My point is that people who label themselves as "spiritual" often discard anything that doesn't fit their preconceived notions of spirituality—for instance, when Shakiri claims she isn't spiritual, I actually find her quite so because of her intellect. They tend to pivot to "rationality" the moment they realize they can't win an argument logically—it's similar to how Quincy writes, though I'm only drawing that parallel to clarify my thought process, stripping away the parts that remain obscure to me and turning that fuzziness into something vaguely defined as "intuition." But intuition isn't fog; it's clear, piercing, and perceptive—and when it's truly pure, it can actually be shaped into a form of expression.
Painting isn't necessarily any easier—beyond years of mastering the tools, you need more than just sight; you need to know how to interpret what you see, since you can't cram every single detail into a canvas without losing the point. That's a much longer process than just talking—unless, of course, you're writing a novel.
Ultimately, I agree with Shakiri that humans need more; we need a challenge to truly grow. You can't achieve that if you think you already have everything you need or if you're completely satisfied—which is exactly what this kind of spirituality aims for: total contentment or peace. It’s like taking a sedative; you aren't actually at peace, you're just numb—or perhaps you've just offloaded your restlessness onto some higher power, sweeping the problem under the rug rather than actually solving it.

Well... I think challenges are part of being a spiritual being, or at least they're necessary. But they aren't enough on their own to make a Man spiritual. It’s about how you handle life's ups and downs; someone who navigates those variations more deeply is usually the more spiritual one.

I’ve said it before: suffering isn't the only thing that sparks spirituality. It's more than that. My personal mantra has always been: "burning through the curses of my own challenges"! 👍

Ronald Rogers27

slymaker9 said:So, stupidity is the real threat. There is no evolutionary leap where we become super-geniuses capable of anticipating and solving every existential crisis. This brings us back to the original point: as a species, we have definitely bitten off more than we can chew.

Anything you can bite into—if you actually try—you can eventually chew up and swallow. Then you die happy. It’s impossible to bite into something you aren't capable of swallowing in the first place. Why we don't chew (or think we don't) is a different matter entirely... You can't know why someone else isn't chewing—not even God knows what's going on in their head—you can only judge for yourself, which is really why this whole topic exists. And honestly, it's not bad news... it means you're at least chewing.

slymaker9 said:It’s what happens when you plot a person's traits and abilities on a Gaussian curve and they land right in the middle.

Do you honestly believe a Gaussian curve can define you? I’d love to know who convinced you of such a thing.

Ronald Rogers27 said:Well... I think challenges are part of being a spiritual being, or at least they're necessary. But they aren't enough on their own to make a Man spiritual. It’s about how you handle life's ups and downs; someone who navigates those variations more deeply is usually the more spiritual one.

I’ve said it before: suffering isn't the only thing that sparks spirituality. It's more than that. My personal mantra has always been: "burning through the curses of my own challenges"! 👍

Ronald Rogers27

It can just as easily lead to self-pity, anger, rage, bitterness, depression, or even suicide... plus a thousand other states that aren't exactly "spiritual."

Maria Hughes52 said:So, do you think the human race survives in the long run? 🙂

Because even the scientists aren't so sure...

I don't know. In the long term, it doesn't seem likely, though I think we'll stick around for a decent while longer.
I'd like to think we might evolve. But hope is a fickle thing. ☕

briskraven28 said:Do you honestly believe a Gaussian curve can define you? I’d love to know who convinced you of such a thing.

Not fundamentally, no, but statistically speaking.
As they say, statistics is just a precise sum of inaccurate data.

slymaker9 said:Not fundamentally, no, but statistically speaking.
As they say, statistics is just a precise sum of inaccurate data.

And you view yourself as a mere number just to make the digestion easier—since everyone else is chewing along blindly, I suppose?

briskraven28 said:And you view yourself as a mere number just to make the digestion easier—since everyone else is chewing along blindly, I suppose?

No. However, I don't view myself as some holy icon that is too special to be categorized or simplified into a standard group.

I am no nobody.

slymaker9 said:No. However, I don't view myself as some holy icon that is too special to be categorized or simplified into a standard group.

I am no nobody.

That is precisely my point—it is a fear of success that far outweighs the fear of failure. It is why humanity struggles to handle what it actually achieves. It is easier to just hide away... If you fail, you can always wallow in self-pity; but if you succeed, then what? You might as well just end it all.

And yet, in the end, you admit you are nobody. 😁

briskraven28 said:That is precisely my point—it is a fear of success that far outweighs the fear of failure. It is why humanity struggles to handle what it actually achieves. It is easier to just hide away... If you fail, you can always wallow in self-pity; but if you succeed, then what? You might as well just end it all.

And yet, in the end, you admit you are nobody. 😁

I don't buy that. There is nothing better than experiencing success and truly shining. Finishing a project you started or finally getting that college degree—those are great things.
What is there to actually fear? Standing out? Being judged by a society that tends to tear down anyone who rises above the crowd? Dealing with envy?
Why should someone be afraid to step into a role they've earned?
And why would success lead to an end, rather than simply providing the momentum for the next goal?

slymaker9 said:I don't buy that. There is nothing better than experiencing success and truly shining. Finishing a project you started or finally getting that college degree—those are great things.
What is there to actually fear? Standing out? Being judged by a society that tends to tear down anyone who rises above the crowd? Dealing with envy?
Why should someone be afraid to step into a role they've earned?
And why would success lead to an end, rather than simply providing the momentum for the next goal?

It’s a matter of simple fact. Can you actually envision a level of success that permanently cures anxiety, depression, and such? If you claim you can, then why haven't you reached that state already, starting right now?

slymaker9 said:No. However, I don't view myself as some holy icon that is too special to be categorized or simplified into a standard group.

I am no nobody.

And I'm not Stella either. 😂

Ronald Rogers27

briskraven28 said:It’s a matter of simple fact. Can you actually envision a level of success that permanently cures anxiety, depression, and such? If you claim you can, then why haven't you reached that state already, starting right now?

Certain anxieties are universal. No one escapes them because they are baked into the human experience. No amount of achievement can erase that; to suggest otherwise would be to suggest we aren't human. Therefore, total eradication is impossible—it's really just a question of intensity.
Life is a constant cycle of struggle and joy for everyone.
As for why my nervous system overreacts to stress, who knows? A doctor calls it a "vulnerable personality structure" (which is just a clinical way of saying I'm sensitive). 😉 By that metric, I'm definitely not average. I once actually fainted from sheer distress. 🤣
Does success make me stronger? It does, which is why my bouts of anxiety and depression are cyclical; they are fundamentally reactive.
Could some massive success eliminate them entirely so they never feel overwhelming again? I don't know.
Success might suppress them for a significant period of time—that much is proven.
But life involves stress. Period. For everyone.

When things are as intense for me as they are, someone who hasn't experienced it simply won't understand.
You don't even have the strength to give up.

Ronald Rogers27 said:And I'm not Stella either. 😂

Ronald Rogers27

Thank God we could actually agree on something.🙂

Carl Gauss... one of the absolute most brilliant minds in history ended up having his name become a synonym for being totally mediocre. 🤣

And when you think about Einstein, I guess you could add: "everything is relative..." including progress and evolution, my dear Darwin.

Stella, even though you say you're stuck in a Gaussian curve, maybe there's actually a certain 'magnetic personality' hidden within you, something akin to 1000 Gauss units? Or perhaps it feels more like you're psychologically oscillating toward various self-conscious magnetic fields, sort of like a mental compass needle, making it easy to slip into unconsciousness... where even a total vacuum, or just nobody, might knock you right out of your mental equilibrium. 😬