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Home › Society › Psychology › How do people with congenital deafness master language and abstract reasoning?

How do people with congenital deafness master language and abstract reasoning?

Started by hollowwolf9 · · 👁 6 views · 69 replies

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Participants hollowwolf9placidjackal36Joseph Watson3David Morgan72Morgan Bishop4Thomas Patel11stormyjackal46steelskipper5placidrangerLisa Hernandez3hollowdriver18Gary James88bluewalker33redmarlin3Andrew Garcia2Nathan Cook4Aaron Anderson72crimsontinker7redharbor9Mark Harris66
steelskipper5 steelskipper5 Active Member
176 messages
joined Feb 2010
#61 ·
crimsontinker7 said:I’ve been wondering lately... what kind of dreams do blind people actually have? hmmm...

bluewalker33 said:I read somewhere that they don't even dream

You were reading total nonsense. ☕ Everyone dreams. Dreams aren't some byproduct of sight—they're driven by the entire complex nervous system.
I think I already mentioned this earlier regarding how people who lost their sight experience dual perception in dreams: those they knew when they could see, they see them as they remember them, whereas those they met after losing their sight, they perceive through whatever other senses they use to experience them.
People born blind only dream through their active senses, but yeah, everyone dreams.
redharbor9 redharbor9 Regular
272 messages
joined Aug 2009
#62 ·
What does a fetus even dream about? 😲

Why is this whole thread built on the assumption that there’s only one "normal" way to think just because that's how people who can hear or see process things? We developed verbal reasoning because that’s the context we grew up in. Just because the majority of us evolved this way doesn't mean it's the only way to exist. Is the struggle here actually just trying to put words to something that simply can't be verbalized? We don't even recognize other ways of thinking, yet we expect deaf people to describe their world to us. How would they even describe colors? How do you explain color to a blind person? It's not that they can't grasp the concept—it's that we don't have the vocabulary to describe it to them. To us, this stuff is second nature, but can we actually articulate it?

People spend way too much time looking for answers within their own little bubbles. You’ve gotta step outside your own perception if you ever want to understand how anyone else navigates the world...
steelskipper5 steelskipper5 Active Member
176 messages
joined Feb 2010
#63 ·
redharbor9 said:What does a fetus even dream about? 😲

Why is this whole thread built on the assumption that there’s only one "normal" way to think just because that's how people who can hear or see process things? We developed verbal reasoning because that’s the context we grew up in. Just because the majority of us evolved this way doesn't mean it's the only way to exist. Is the struggle here actually just trying to put words to something that simply can't be verbalized? We don't even recognize other ways of thinking, yet we expect deaf people to describe their world to us. How would they even describe colors? How do you explain color to a blind person? It's not that they can't grasp the concept—it's that we don't have the vocabulary to describe it to them. To us, this stuff is second nature, but can we actually articulate it?

People spend way too much time looking for answers within their own little bubbles. You’ve gotta step outside your own perception if you ever want to understand how anyone else navigates the world...

It’s highly likely that dreams are also conditioned by how they perceive things. Dreaming probably serves to—well, let's say consolidate and organize all the data the brain picked up while awake. So, I guess it's reasonable to assume a fetus would dream about stuff related to the information their brain is actually gathering during its waking state.
Why is this whole thread drifting so far away from the assumption that "normalcy" and being "correct" are defined solely by those who can hear and see?

Well, maybe because seeing and hearing is just... normal? 🤷
I mean, strictly looking at the facts—no value judgments here—but normal is having all six senses.

Is verbal thinking just something WE developed because of our sense of hearing... and because we (the majority) evolved that way, we treat it as the only possible method and anything else is impossible? Or is the issue coming from trying to verbalize things that simply can't be put into words?

Deaf people—just like us hearing folks—think in symbols. The fact that our symbols happen to be mostly verbal is just a byproduct of the language we use.
There are even whistling languages out there; obviously, people who speak those think in them, too.
Mark Harris66 Mark Harris66 Active Member
158 messages
joined Oct 2016
#64 ·
There’s a massive difference between being deaf and hard of hearing. I actually sit right on the line between those two 😉
I hang out constantly with the "hearing impaired" crowd—both the hard of hearing and the profoundly deaf—so I get a real look at all three worlds.
For someone who is profoundly deaf, sound just isn't a thing... there's zero perception of it. To them, sound is just a symbol that separates them from the "normal" world—just a concept—and they can't even begin to wrap their heads around what sound actually is or how it feels.
Basically, you can't generalize. In the deaf community, it's rare to find someone who is 100% deaf and hears absolutely nothing. Some people pick up certain sounds—like a nail gun, engine turbulence, or the hum coming from a subwoofer if you're standing next to it 😳l: etc. Everyone's range is different. Even for me, the same frequency sounds totally different depending on which hearing aid I'm wearing.
A friend of mine was born profoundly deaf and couldn't hear a nail gun even if it was right next to her ear 😁. After getting a cochlear implant, she had this total shock to her system—it was the first time she actually realized sound exists. Before the surgery, though, she had already mastered her native language and, of course, abstract thought. Deaf people grasp abstract concepts; they just process them differently than hearing people do. They use symbols, but not "verbal" ones.
Deaf people tend to be very visual types—their whole mental perception is almost entirely visual. Even I—and I can hear pretty much everything with my hearing aid (though nothing without it)—listen to music, but I can't actually understand speech. I can hear the pitch, the tone, and everything else perfectly, but for understanding words, I have to rely on lip-reading and logical deduction based on what I see. My thinking process is nearly 100% visual. So, how did I learn to think abstractly? It took a ton of work—the big factors were just thinking deeply and reading a lot. Plus, you need solid logic. You can't do anything without logic 🙏 and a bit of intuition (yeah, intuition plays a part too)
People who are hard of hearing *do* hear sounds, whether they have aids or not. And again, their perception depends on the level of hearing loss, the quality of their tech, and so on. They don't strictly think in visuals like some others do.
Sign language involves using both hands. What kids often use in school is actually just a manual alphabet, whereas true sign language uses one hand for things like spelling out names.
Sign language is fundamentally different from spoken language. Unfortunately, learning only sign language doesn't provide a great foundation for understanding spoken English, because sign language has a more limited vocabulary and lacks many abstract terms (for example, how would you sign "misanthrope"? You'd probably just sign "a person who hates people")
.. I won't go on about sign language, though—not the topic here.
By the way, is it actually true that white cats are deaf? That's news to me 🤷.. It's hard to believe. Is that just specific breeds (I'm no cat expert 🤣), or what?
Also, someone mentioned a hard-of-hearing teacher back in high school. I'm really curious how much hearing loss that person actually had and if they were working in the US. I struggle to imagine how that works in a classroom—teaching, or when students are doing oral exams and the teacher can't catch what they're saying... or when kids ask questions during a lecture. I know of a teacher at a high school in Chicago (if she's still there, I think she moved to the US) who taught art, but she wasn't really hard of hearing—more on the hearing side than the deaf side.
I know, I know—way too many questions at once—but I just stumbled upon this thread...
ps. Silence actually has its own sound. For me, the "silence" feels totally different depending on whether I've got my hearing aid in or not. When I’m wearing it, silence has a certain texture, even if there isn't an actual noise—yeah, I know, oxymoron alert 🤣—but without the hearing aid, silence is just... nothing. A total void.
bijela_maca, you're lucky you live in Canada! 😉
filthy, what part of the States are you in? It’s a shame you haven't met anyone else like yourself yet—it would definitely make things easier on your headspace. But you'll get through all these hurdles eventually... things really do start looking up as you get older.
Andrew Garcia2 Andrew Garcia2 Member
30 messages
joined Apr 2010
#65 ·
Mark Harris66 said:There’s a massive difference between being deaf and hard of hearing. I actually sit right on the line between those two 😉
I hang out constantly with the "hearing impaired" crowd—both the hard of hearing and the profoundly deaf—so I get a real look at all three worlds.
For someone who is profoundly deaf, sound just isn't a thing... there's zero perception of it. To them, sound is just a symbol that separates them from the "normal" world—just a concept—and they can't even begin to wrap their heads around what sound actually is or how it feels.
Basically, you can't generalize. In the deaf community, it's rare to find someone who is 100% deaf and hears absolutely nothing. Some people pick up certain sounds—like a nail gun, engine turbulence, or the hum coming from a subwoofer if you're standing next to it 😳l: etc. Everyone's range is different. Even for me, the same frequency sounds totally different depending on which hearing aid I'm wearing.
A friend of mine was born profoundly deaf and couldn't hear a nail gun even if it was right next to her ear 😁. After getting a cochlear implant, she had this total shock to her system—it was the first time she actually realized sound exists. Before the surgery, though, she had already mastered her native language and, of course, abstract thought. Deaf people grasp abstract concepts; they just process them differently than hearing people do. They use symbols, but not "verbal" ones.
Deaf people tend to be very visual types—their whole mental perception is almost entirely visual. Even I—and I can hear pretty much everything with my hearing aid (though nothing without it)—listen to music, but I can't actually understand speech. I can hear the pitch, the tone, and everything else perfectly, but for understanding words, I have to rely on lip-reading and logical deduction based on what I see. My thinking process is nearly 100% visual. So, how did I learn to think abstractly? It took a ton of work—the big factors were just thinking deeply and reading a lot. Plus, you need solid logic. You can't do anything without logic 🙏 and a bit of intuition (yeah, intuition plays a part too)
People who are hard of hearing *do* hear sounds, whether they have aids or not. And again, their perception depends on the level of hearing loss, the quality of their tech, and so on. They don't strictly think in visuals like some others do.
Sign language involves using both hands. What kids often use in school is actually just a manual alphabet, whereas true sign language uses one hand for things like spelling out names.
Sign language is fundamentally different from spoken language. Unfortunately, learning only sign language doesn't provide a great foundation for understanding spoken English, because sign language has a more limited vocabulary and lacks many abstract terms (for example, how would you sign "misanthrope"? You'd probably just sign "a person who hates people")
.. I won't go on about sign language, though—not the topic here.
By the way, is it actually true that white cats are deaf? That's news to me 🤷.. It's hard to believe. Is that just specific breeds (I'm no cat expert 🤣), or what?
Also, someone mentioned a hard-of-hearing teacher back in high school. I'm really curious how much hearing loss that person actually had and if they were working in the US. I struggle to imagine how that works in a classroom—teaching, or when students are doing oral exams and the teacher can't catch what they're saying... or when kids ask questions during a lecture. I know of a teacher at a high school in Chicago (if she's still there, I think she moved to the US) who taught art, but she wasn't really hard of hearing—more on the hearing side than the deaf side.
I know, I know—way too many questions at once—but I just stumbled upon this thread...
ps. Silence actually has its own sound. For me, the "silence" feels totally different depending on whether I've got my hearing aid in or not. When I’m wearing it, silence has a certain texture, even if there isn't an actual noise—yeah, I know, oxymoron alert 🤣—but without the hearing aid, silence is just... nothing. A total void.
bijela_maca, you're lucky you live in Canada! 😉
filthy, what part of the States are you in? It’s a shame you haven't met anyone else like yourself yet—it would definitely make things easier on your headspace. But you'll get through all these hurdles eventually... things really do start looking up as you get older.

I get what you mean. It’s pretty much the same thing for people who are blind... how do you explain sound to someone who can't hear? How do you explain color to someone who can't see?
When I was born, my hearing loss was mild, but now it's gotten pretty serious. I have significant damage, and when I take my hearing aids out, everything just goes silent. I actually like the quiet sometimes, but it can feel a little eerie, especially if I haven't worn my aids all day. I rely on lip-reading quite a bit, which helps make talking easier, though it really depends on things like how loud the room is, the lighting, or how fast someone talks. Honestly, I’d love to find a group of other hard-of-hearing people to hang out with. Right now, I feel like I'm totally alone in this. I live out near Orlando, 🙂
Feel free to shoot me a PM if you want to ask anything at all.
Mark Harris66 Mark Harris66 Active Member
158 messages
joined Oct 2016
#66 ·
That’s terrible—I deal with the exact same thing. Lip reading is such a struggle, especially when you need perfect conditions—good lighting, quiet rooms, you name it—but I guess you just learn how to manage it as you get older. Still, the daily grind of it is exhausting 😁... You aren't alone in this, either. There are plenty of people dealing with this in your county, and I actually have some family and friends living out in your neck of the woods too
Sent you a PM
Andrew Garcia2 Andrew Garcia2 Member
30 messages
joined Apr 2010
#67 ·
Mark Harris66 said:That’s terrible—I deal with the exact same thing. Lip reading is such a struggle, especially when you need perfect conditions—good lighting, quiet rooms, you name it—but I guess you just learn how to manage it as you get older. Still, the daily grind of it is exhausting 😁... You aren't alone in this, either. There are plenty of people dealing with this in your county, and I actually have some family and friends living out in your neck of the woods too
Sent you a PM

Most of us operate this way😉
Is it just me, or does it feel like this is more common among women? Seriously, looking at this thread and that one other one from before, it seems like it’s mostly women chiming in here.🤷
bluewalker33 bluewalker33 Member
35 messages
joined Feb 2010
#68 ·
It’s a huge difference, though it really comes down to how many decibels you've actually lost... Some people have such mild hearing loss that those tiny, almost invisible hearing aids do the trick, but since my loss is pretty significant, even the bigger models barely help me. I’m bordering on deaf at this point, but I can still function socially, even if I have to ask people to repeat themselves every once in a while...
Mark Harris66 Mark Harris66 Active Member
158 messages
joined Oct 2016
#69 ·
So, medically speaking, I’m deaf, but I feel more like someone who's hard of hearing😉—mostly because I don't use sign language, even though I totally get it. I’m pretty plugged into the hearing community too—classes, work, friends, my husband, all that good stuff... even though I have Deaf friends as well.
Sometimes, though, I feel more on the hearing side. Honestly, I just feel ambivalent😁—like I've been walking a tightrope my whole life, never fully belonging to one world while still understanding both. (Well, three worlds in this case, since there's such a massive gap between the Hard of Hearing and the Deaf communities.)
It's probably not that there are more hard-of-hearing women out there, they just seem to be more active on this specific thread or forum.
In real life, I definitely know way more guys.

Also, nobody got back to me about those white cats😢... are they actually deaf, or is that just some urban legend😁? And if it's real, which breeds are we talking about? Just so I can verify it myself if I ever run into a deaf cat🤣 (kidding!)—is it just a genetic mutation thing or what?
bluewalker33 bluewalker33 Member
35 messages
joined Feb 2010
#70 ·
LMAO sky_high, I'm feeling the exact same way 🙂

And yeah, what bluewalker33 said is true, though I definitely wasn't thinking about any of that when I picked my handle... It only crossed my mind much later because I heard some old wives' tale about it ages ago and totally forgot...

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