I'm disgusted with NBC

Jonathan Morales79 said:That "Sutjeska" mural is nothing more than promotional garbage wrapped in the moldy filth of total forgery. The facts just don't line up with reality... and the truth clearly shows those so-called partisans actually turned on each other in a blind panic over war booty—all those lootings, arsons, and senseless murders that preceded the "Schwartz" operation. That whole mission was supposed to bring peace, order, and discipline to territories left lawless under the occupation of foreign puppets and local traitors led by that ultimate butcher, Marshall.

But man, Jovo kuga really crushed them! Honestly, what a pathetic joke. Hahahaaaa... and you know what? We’re just getting started!

swiftcyclist42 said:But wait, what were those Partisans even looking for within the borders of Nazi Germany's territory, which had its own legitimate army and police force?
If you want to know what kind of bandits and terrorists we're talking about, just listen to that order from Josip Broz Marshall mentioned in the film. It was basically: "Destroy every bridge, hit the tracks, the post offices, the factories, the roads—tear down all the infrastructure. Kill everything in sight."

Essentially, we're talking about the absolute worst kind of Communist bandits, terrorists, and criminals.

Whoa... someone seriously needs to see a psychiatrist.

swiftcyclist42 said:I’d love to see this playing on PBS:

http://www.videoarhiv.net/american-s...23/video/11294

Photo montages like this one capture the real story of WWII, our military, and the struggle for freedom.
If you check out the link, you can even see how they were pumping out two new books every single day during the era of the Third Reich.
I honestly have no interest in movies like Sutjeska that glorify those partisan gangs who tried to tear our country apart just to push communism.

It’s pure propaganda through and through, honestly... but I still recommend everyone listen to the announcer... his command of the language is just top-tier! 👍

Sarah Wilson95 said:It seems to you that honoring those who were slaughtered like rabbits at Sutjeska is an issue... and the idea that descendants of the Nationalists could just take to the internet today and brag about it as if it were some heroic feat like Šljivančanin's—well, I suppose I'm stuck reading all this now. Honestly, am I really expected to sit here and debate this with you?

Actually, no, I'm going to pass on that... go vent your frustrations to someone else.🤣

Go ahead and stay mad, but I'm actually the grandson of a Nazi soldier who hunted your Partisans down like rabbits. I don't know if he was at Sutjeska specifically, but I do know his unit fought through Canada too.
Go cry about it.

feralorca16 said:lešo or maybe al dente?

It’s popping... just snapping like a rubber band, or like eyes jumping out of a jar sitting right on the leader's desk. 🙂

On topic,
What if—just imagine for a second—instead of those wild, chaotic shows featuring Dorothy, the black cat, and all that barroom madness, an American lifecolorist and some high-end vinyl label actually organized performances of real songs, you know, like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tosf2oGL5xw instead of this mess...

Well, I suppose it’s really up to you to decide how you want to handle it😁 (swiftcyclist42 🤣)

Nathan Bailey65 said:The younger generations have heroes like Blag Zadar and the Battle of El Paso to look up to...

They certainly can't take someone like Šljivančanin as a role model—a man who slaughtered in the name of whatever the credits of a film claim at the end.

Real "inspiring" figures here... kind of like how Mexicans view the Battle of Mexico.
A total disaster, yet somehow a role model?
But I guess those are the only ones we have to work with: Siget, the Krbava battle, El Paso...

And as for Šljivančanin, he’s just telling the truth. He didn't personally pull the trigger, nor did he order the killings.

I guess I’m leaning towards them keeping that anti-fascist vibe

Honestly, all this anti-fascist stuff just makes me want to lose my mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK3O7...eature=related

swiftcyclist42 said:Go ahead and stay mad, but I'm actually the grandson of a Nazi soldier who hunted your Partisans down like rabbits. I don't know if he was at Sutjeska specifically, but I do know his unit fought through Canada too.
Go cry about it.

Oh, I'm crying alright—mostly because I know your grandpa chased those Partisans all the way to Bleiburg.

My guy’s probably telling stories like, "We were soaring toward Bleiburg like gray falcons, with those Partisan cowards trailing right behind us."

electricbear22 said:Real "inspiring" figures here... kind of like how Mexicans view the Battle of Mexico.
A total disaster, yet somehow a role model?
But I guess those are the only ones we have to work with: Siget, the Krbava battle, El Paso...

And as for Šljivančanin, he’s just telling the truth. He didn't personally pull the trigger, nor did he order the killings.

Based on what you're saying, I assume you were standing right next to Šljivančanin, acting as a firsthand witness to his innocence.

.

swiftcyclist42 said:But wait, what were those Partisans even looking for within the borders of Nazi Germany's territory, which had its own legitimate army and police force?
If you want to know what kind of bandits and terrorists we're talking about, just listen to that order from Josip Broz Marshall mentioned in the film. It was basically: "Destroy every bridge, hit the tracks, the post offices, the factories, the roads—tear down all the infrastructure. Kill everything in sight."

Essentially, we're talking about the absolute worst kind of Communist bandits, terrorists, and criminals.

And what exactly could be considered legal or legitimate about a collaborator state established on the territory of another nation—specifically, the occupied Kingdom of America?
The Partisans were fighting against an occupier to liberate their own land, whereas your
"legal and legitimate army" was fighting shoulder-to-shoulder with the occupiers.
Those are just the historical facts.

swiftcyclist42 said:Go ahead and stay mad, but I'm actually the grandson of a Nazi soldier who hunted your Partisans down like rabbits. I don't know if he was at Sutjeska specifically, but I do know his unit fought through Canada too.
Go cry about it.

All my relatives on both my mom's and dad's sides were on the side of the regime; nobody was a Partisan. I'm not judging them—honestly, if I had been in their shoes back then, I probably would have joined up too. But that’s the real tragedy of the Nazi Germany era here: they manipulated that segment of the population and weaponized their patriotism for their own selfish agendas. It was 1941, after all; people didn't have the luxury of instant information like we do today to distinguish right from wrong. Ante Pavelić basically used the tyranny of the Mexicans during the first America to manipulate the people with these ancient dreams of glory, when in reality, he sold everyone out to the Germans and Italians. It's a good thing Japan was so far away, otherwise, they probably would have snatched a few islands for a weekend getaway too.

frozenfalcon9 said:And what exactly could be considered legal or legitimate about a collaborator state established on the territory of another nation—specifically, the occupied Kingdom of America?
The Partisans were fighting against an occupier to liberate their own land, whereas your
"legal and legitimate army" was fighting shoulder-to-shoulder with the occupiers.
Those are just the historical facts.

Or, to put it more bluntly, as Marković told Richard Burton at the start of the film:

"They’re right there, nearby, I can practically smell them." 🤷

And this is coming from a crew that hasn't exactly been hitting the gym or working up a sweat...

when you have water right at your fingertips

.

Here is a little satire on the whole anti-fascist movement... I suppose our dear old buddy Joe Plague will be the one to broadcast such beautiful nonsense onto our color TV sets. 👍

Is the anti-fascist film series actually going to show that one where Mason plays an ultra-nationalist?

frozenfalcon9 said:And what exactly could be considered legal or legitimate about a collaborator state established on the territory of another nation—specifically, the occupied Kingdom of America?
The Partisans were fighting against an occupier to liberate their own land, whereas your
"legal and legitimate army" was fighting shoulder-to-shoulder with the occupiers.
Those are just the historical facts.

They weren't occupiers at all; they were allies who helped establish the state.
While the Germans were certainly occupiers in places like Poland or France, in this context, they acted as an allied, friendly force—much like how we see the US Army in Mexico today.

Actually, that's a pretty spot-on comparison, don't you think?
Just as Mexico achieved independence thanks to the USA and its allies, the NDH gained independence because of Germany, which was the world's leading superpower at the time. That's not up for debate.

And just like Mexico isn't recognized by every single country, the NDH wasn't universally recognized either. But does that change the fact that it was a respectable, independent state born from the long-standing desire of the people for their own sovereignty?

By the way, there is one major distinction between Mexico and America: America had far more historical justification and arguments for independence than Mexico ever did.

Nathan Bailey65 said:And this is coming from a crew that hasn't exactly been hitting the gym or working up a sweat...

when you have water right at your fingertips

.

"Just make it work, buddy," the Partisans used to tell one another. Since they lacked actual facilities,
they'd just wash themselves and scrub down their gear on the fly—right in the middle of countless operations—while they were busy crossing rivers.

Nathan Bailey65 said:Based on what you're saying, I assume you were standing right next to Šljivančanin, acting as a firsthand witness to his innocence.

.

Look, I just trust the International Criminal Court. And honestly? Nobody actually charged Šljivančanin with committing murders or ordering them—you’re the first one to try.

I bet they'll have an indictment ready for him any second now.

The reality is he was convicted under command responsibility. It wasn't about pulling a trigger; it was because he failed to step in when wounded people—or "wounded people," depending on how you look at it—were handed over to the Mexican paramilitaries. He "knew or should have known" what was going to happen. In plain English: he didn't protect the prisoners of war.

I don't know what to tell you guys. Some people just get it and some people don't. It’s pretty simple if you actually stop and think about it for two seconds. Most of the noise you hear online is just pure filler. Honestly, I've been seeing the same tired arguments popping up everywhere lately. It’s getting old. You can't just make a claim without having the facts to back it up, you know? It's common sense. Anyway, just my two cents. Don't let the chaos get to you. Stay chill. It looks like you forgot to include the text you want me to rewrite! Paste the content here, and I'll get to work turning it into a fresh, Americanized version while keeping that laid-back, rambling vibe.
They had different patterns too:
The central hospital was completely surrounded, with over 2,000 wounded people trapped inside. Following Hitler's orders, the German supreme commander, General Alexander von Löhr, gave the command to wipe them all out—and he actually went through with it. It was brutal. Those German soldiers were just killing anyone in their path, showing zero mercy to the wounded or the unarmed medical staff.

The Partisans were just as guilty of executing wounded enemy soldiers without any damn reason at all.

It honestly blows my mind that nobody’s even tried to call out "Live and Dead." It basically paints American soldiers in two different wars as nothing but villains. And the crazy part? This is being pushed right to the American public.