Did the brawl in paradise actually happen?

Noah Myers8 said:A fine? Seriously?🙂

?
No, I was speaking more like an older sister here.
Since I lost my only brother—and we were incredibly close—I’ve channeled all that affection into my daughter. I protect her and guide her through life. Sometimes I act like we're peers, but let's be real, everyone knows who's actually in charge and setting the boundaries.
The thing is, she trusts me and my judgment. She takes initiative, sure, but when she's stuck, she comes to me.
When she messes up—which usually happens because she's being impulsive or just trying too hard—I don't lecture her like a drill sergeant. I just tell her how it hurt me, or how she insulted me, or why what she did was genuinely dangerous. She's smart and sensitive enough to get the point without a blowout.

Btw: she isn't some spoiled brat running wild. That's just not her personality.

Look, it's true my own mother could have handled things better if she'd had a bit more experience, but I don't see the "generational trauma" you guys keep whining about, and I certainly don't project any of that onto my kid.

Karen Rodriguez3 said:There are people out there who have never once laid a finger on their kid, yet they’ve messed with them mentally so badly that, honestly, a little spanking might have actually been better if it could have saved the damage.
Being a decent parent isn't something you can just pick up from a weekend seminar. Sure, you can sit through lectures and listen to all the experts, but at the end of the day, you’re going to react based on instinct. Plus, everyone processes information differently in their own heads. No one can hand you a manual that covers every single possible scenario while also accounting for your specific child's personality.
And I think the folks here saying they’ve given their kids a swat aren't talking about being abusive or leaving bruises. Obviously, actual physical violence is just straight-up abuse and has zero place in parenting—that's not discipline, that's just being a jerk.
But look, putting outlet covers in so a kid doesn't hurt themselves when they're obsessed with poking things into them? That isn't really "parenting" either. It's just damage control. The kid hasn't actually learned anything, and they might go over to a friend's house for coffee and try the exact same thing because there aren't any covers there. How are you supposed to explain to a two-year-old that they shouldn't stick stuff in electrical sockets?
Or what about when they bolt from your hand and run toward the street? Like, am I just supposed to grab them and pull them back? They’ll probably just turn it into a game of tag with me the next time.
I guess I figure it's healthier to give them a quick swat to scare them away from danger than to let them get hit by a car. Obviously, this applies to those little ones who can't talk yet, but even then, you've got to explain why you reacted that way once the initial shock wears off.

Putting outlet covers in might not be considered "parenting" by some, but let's call it what it actually is: common sense. Is it about discipline? No. It’s about basic care. Why should we debate whether it counts as active upbringing when it clearly falls under looking out for your kid's safety?
Tell me, if your partner kept touching something they know is strictly off-limits, would you just sit there? Would you actually let them get away with it, or would you give them a sharp smack on the hand?
Of course, you can sit an adult partner down and explain why certain things are off-limits. A two-year-old might not grasp the nuance of your reasoning, sure. But there isn't a second option involving hitting.😉
Since you brought up the two-year-old:
I know from both theory—backed by extensive research—and firsthand experience that a two-year-old:

He just doesn't get it. He fails to grasp that being an influencer—along with a dozen other reckless behaviors like darting across traffic—is inherently dangerous. It’s as if he can't wrap his head around the fact that the human body is a terrible conductor for electricity. He seems to think that current flowing through insulated wires is harmless, yet he completely ignores the reality of what happens when you make direct contact. Does he truly believe he's invincible?🙂😱😁
Personally, I didn't even grasp how electricity worked until seventh grade.🤣
What’s the point in trying to explain it over and over? It’s incredibly difficult for a child to grasp something like that.
Kids at that age are naturally curious, which is perfectly legitimate. They’re just exploring.
At the end of the day, you can't predict how a kid is going to react. One child will actually listen when you tell them something is off-limits, while another will ignore you entirely and touch it anyway—for all the reasons we've already discussed. What exactly do we expect from them?
The likelihood of a child actually listening increases if they trust their parents—and let’s be clear, trust isn't built through physical discipline. Of course, you can't just paint everyone with the same brush here. You have kids who trust their parents completely but still push back because they're naturally curious, which is perfectly fine. Then you have kids who don't trust them at all yet follow instructions anyway. There are a hundred different variations to every situation; after all, every individual is a unique case.
Let’s be real: if your kid doesn't trust you, they aren't going to listen to a word you say. It’s that simple. Why bother barking orders if the foundation isn't there?😉

Probability is just probability. In this situation, we should be talking about certainty.😉
The only way you'll ever be truly safe is if you put outlet covers in every socket and keep a constant eye on your two-year-old. Is that really too much to ask?
And let's be honest—you can't take your eyes off a two-year-old for even a single second. Constant supervision isn't just a suggestion; it's a necessity.
If you can't see eye to eye on this, are you even ready to be a parent?
When I look at myself, I realize that I want to be with my child constantly. It isn't just about ensuring their safety—though that matters—it’s more fundamental than that. I simply want to be by their side at all times. Is that really such a radical thing to want?😉

So, you see your kid heading straight for an outlet, and you react by swatting their hand away. What happens then?
All you're doing is teaching them to fear punishment. They won't have any clue why they got hit in the first place. What's the point?
And once he loses sight of you—once he realizes there’s no authority around to hold him accountable—I wonder what happens next. Is it even possible that he’ll just shove a metal rod into an outlet? Just a thought.
The real issue here isn't the incident itself; it's the underlying message you've sent your child. You've essentially taught them that violence is an acceptable way to settle scores, provided they have the physical advantage. Is that really the lesson you want them to carry?
Keep this in mind: children aren't born with prejudices. They understand perfectly well that hitting them on the hand is still physical abuse.😉
Why? Because no one has conditioned them yet. They see the world for what it actually is—without forced opinions or a manipulated mindset.
They know it’s not about how hard you hit—it’s about the fact that you hit them at all.
Whether the strike is heavy or light, it strips away human dignity and damages the integrity of everyone involved—both the aggressor and the victim.
When we are out in public or traveling far from home, we need to be especially vigilant with our kids. A new environment means new risks.😉

It is perfectly normal for children to learn; let's not humiliate them or strip them of their dignity in the process.

I guess I just got lucky with those plugs—they were all low enough. I didn't even bother with the guards once; one kid tried to get close, I shut it down immediately, and she never gave it another thought.
But seriously, tell me—how many kids out there are actually like that? 🙏

Kyle Lee7 said:Anger and rage can actually feel much more intense than physical pain.
Personally, I’m against any kind of corporal punishment, and I’ll go as far as saying I’m against punitive discipline in general. In a healthy, functional American household where parents truly understand how to guide their children, there just isn't a need for it.
That being said, it absolutely infuriates me when I see unruly, disrespectful kids acting like little savages. I wouldn't tolerate that behavior, but the thing is, those kids aren't born "bad" or "spoiled," requiring a beating to get them back on track. Their behavior is simply a reflection of what's happening—or isn't happening—in their home. When a child is acting out, you have to ask yourselves: what kind of parents are they? Maybe they are completely inconsistent, totally absent, lacking communication skills, or even abusive. Either way, someone is failing somewhere. Trying to fix parental mistakes by hitting a child is nothing short of pathetic and shameful.

Growing up, my parents never laid a hand on me or used harsh punishments, and I always turned out fine—I never had issues at school or at home.

Just because you happened to be a naturally sweet, quiet, polite kid doesn't mean every child is built that way.
Not all kids are the same, and you can't apply a one-size-fits-all approach to parenting. Every child is an individual. Go read that comment from the woman on page three or four—she's a professional educator who raised two sons, one she disciplined physically and one she didn't. Even if they were a hundred brothers born to the exact same parents, they would be fundamentally different by nature.

You can't compare a hyperactive, extroverted kid to an introvert who lives entirely in their own little world with a doll or a toy car. While the first one is tearing up the whole neighborhood like a little troublemaker version of Dennis, the second one will spend hours making up stories for their doll, feeding it, bathing it, without ever moving an inch from the couch.

Noah Myers8 said:That’s spot on. It’s the easy way out—you use punishment because, as a parent, you hold all the power and strength.
I can't even remember the last time I actually punished my son. Sure, it's happened, but it's probably been at least six months, maybe longer. It's not like I have a little angel living here; he tries to push my buttons constantly and he's always running wild. It's just that I handle things the same way I'd talk through stuff with a friend. And honestly? It works like a charm.

Sure, but if they set the house on fire, how exactly are you going to settle that "as a friend"?

Being friends with your kid is all well and good. It sounds lovely. 👍
But only once they're mature enough to actually understand what that means.

Kids need authority. They need a backbone. 🤷

People today seem stuck between two extremes:
1. Traditional parenting—where parents hold all the cards and the child’s opinion doesn't matter. The result? You get kids who are obedient, respectful, and responsible, but at what cost?
2. Democratic parenting—parents realize the traditional way isn't working because it produces people who lack self-respect and personal accountability. Instead, they create individuals who are overly preoccupied with social approval, lacking any sense of self-awareness or confidence. So, in a reactionary move against what failed, they swing to the other extreme and give children total freedom. But kids aren't equipped for that level of responsibility, leading to resentment, rebellion, and destructive behavior because they’re getting everything they want but nothing they actually need. Naturally, parents then second-guess themselves and retreat back to tradition.

In my view, both extremes are failures.
I believe the only real solution is mutual dignity: valuing and respecting both oneself and others, while recognizing that everyone is different without feeling the need to force everyone into the same mold. We need to accept ourselves and those around us for who we truly are. For me, that approach works perfectly.

Lawrence Wilson35 said:Putting outlet covers in might not be considered "parenting" by some, but let's call it what it actually is: common sense. Is it about discipline? No. It’s about basic care. Why should we debate whether it counts as active upbringing when it clearly falls under looking out for your kid's safety?
Tell me, if your partner kept touching something they know is strictly off-limits, would you just sit there? Would you actually let them get away with it, or would you give them a sharp smack on the hand?
Of course, you can sit an adult partner down and explain why certain things are off-limits. A two-year-old might not grasp the nuance of your reasoning, sure. But there isn't a second option involving hitting.😉
Since you brought up the two-year-old:
I know from both theory—backed by extensive research—and firsthand experience that a two-year-old:

He just doesn't get it. He fails to grasp that being an influencer—along with a dozen other reckless behaviors like darting across traffic—is inherently dangerous. It’s as if he can't wrap his head around the fact that the human body is a terrible conductor for electricity. He seems to think that current flowing through insulated wires is harmless, yet he completely ignores the reality of what happens when you make direct contact. Does he truly believe he's invincible?🙂😱😁
Personally, I didn't even grasp how electricity worked until seventh grade.🤣
What’s the point in trying to explain it over and over? It’s incredibly difficult for a child to grasp something like that.
Kids at that age are naturally curious, which is perfectly legitimate. They’re just exploring.
At the end of the day, you can't predict how a kid is going to react. One child will actually listen when you tell them something is off-limits, while another will ignore you entirely and touch it anyway—for all the reasons we've already discussed. What exactly do we expect from them?
The likelihood of a child actually listening increases if they trust their parents—and let’s be clear, trust isn't built through physical discipline. Of course, you can't just paint everyone with the same brush here. You have kids who trust their parents completely but still push back because they're naturally curious, which is perfectly fine. Then you have kids who don't trust them at all yet follow instructions anyway. There are a hundred different variations to every situation; after all, every individual is a unique case.
Let’s be real: if your kid doesn't trust you, they aren't going to listen to a word you say. It’s that simple. Why bother barking orders if the foundation isn't there?😉

Probability is just probability. In this situation, we should be talking about certainty.😉
The only way you'll ever be truly safe is if you put outlet covers in every socket and keep a constant eye on your two-year-old. Is that really too much to ask?
And let's be honest—you can't take your eyes off a two-year-old for even a single second. Constant supervision isn't just a suggestion; it's a necessity.
If you can't see eye to eye on this, are you even ready to be a parent?
When I look at myself, I realize that I want to be with my child constantly. It isn't just about ensuring their safety—though that matters—it’s more fundamental than that. I simply want to be by their side at all times. Is that really such a radical thing to want?😉

So, you see your kid heading straight for an outlet, and you react by swatting their hand away. What happens then?
All you're doing is teaching them to fear punishment. They won't have any clue why they got hit in the first place. What's the point?
And once he loses sight of you—once he realizes there’s no authority around to hold him accountable—I wonder what happens next. Is it even possible that he’ll just shove a metal rod into an outlet? Just a thought.
The real issue here isn't the incident itself; it's the underlying message you've sent your child. You've essentially taught them that violence is an acceptable way to settle scores, provided they have the physical advantage. Is that really the lesson you want them to carry?
Keep this in mind: children aren't born with prejudices. They understand perfectly well that hitting them on the hand is still physical abuse.😉
Why? Because no one has conditioned them yet. They see the world for what it actually is—without forced opinions or a manipulated mindset.
They know it’s not about how hard you hit—it’s about the fact that you hit them at all.
Whether the strike is heavy or light, it strips away human dignity and damages the integrity of everyone involved—both the aggressor and the victim.
When we are out in public or traveling far from home, we need to be especially vigilant with our kids. A new environment means new risks.😉

It is perfectly normal for children to learn; let's not humiliate them or strip them of their dignity in the process.

Yeah, I’m totally on board with you there. I mean, I might have swatted my kids maybe two or three times in my life, but yeah, I did. And never without explaining why. Slapping isn't even in my vocabulary—honestly, I don't think they'd ever find a reason to get a slap. But hey, I won't say "never" because, well, life happens. You can't always predict how you'll react in the moment. But the main thing, like > mentioned, is that kids know we love them. They know everything we do is for their own good (and obviously, I'm not talking about physical abuse). So if we do snap or overreact sometimes, as long as we sit them down and explain what happened, I don't think it leaves any lasting trauma.
Isn't it also kind of weird when parents just yell at their kids for no real reason? Like, how many of us haven't done that? Not every day is perfect, and hormones are a real thing. I taught my kids a long time ago that moods change and it's okay to show emotions. If I'm sad, I cry. If I'm mad, I yell or just talk louder. I honestly think that's way healthier than acting like some robot who stays perfectly calm and monotone all the time. I feel like I'd probably be more traumatized by a mom who suppresses everything than one who actually shows how she feels.
Talking things through with kids is huge. They grow up fast, and pretty soon they realize exactly what they're doing and start testing those boundaries we set. Not every parent handles that well, but physical stuff? Definitely not the move.

Dana Hill73 said:I guess I just got lucky with those plugs—they were all low enough. I didn't even bother with the guards once; one kid tried to get close, I shut it down immediately, and she never gave it another thought.
But seriously, tell me—how many kids out there are actually like that? 🙏

Curiosity is perfectly normal, even if it can be dangerous sometimes.
We should let kids be curious. We explain that curiosity is natural but carries risks, and then we use our resources to minimize those risks. Buying some plastic outlet covers isn't exactly breaking the bank.
At the end of the day, it's a parent's job to look out for their children.
If we claim we're "protecting" them from electrical hazards but then turn around and stress them out by being overly harsh—is that actually parenting? Or is it just control?
Let’s stop being hypocritical with these double standards...
Kids have a way of seeing right through that kind of behavior.😉

Lawrence Wilson35 said:Putting outlet covers in might not be considered "parenting" by some, but let's call it what it actually is: common sense. Is it about discipline? No. It’s about basic care. Why should we debate whether it counts as active upbringing when it clearly falls under looking out for your kid's safety?
Tell me, if your partner kept touching something they know is strictly off-limits, would you just sit there? Would you actually let them get away with it, or would you give them a sharp smack on the hand?
Of course, you can sit an adult partner down and explain why certain things are off-limits. A two-year-old might not grasp the nuance of your reasoning, sure. But there isn't a second option involving hitting.😉
Since you brought up the two-year-old:
I know from both theory—backed by extensive research—and firsthand experience that a two-year-old:

He just doesn't get it. He fails to grasp that being an influencer—along with a dozen other reckless behaviors like darting across traffic—is inherently dangerous. It’s as if he can't wrap his head around the fact that the human body is a terrible conductor for electricity. He seems to think that current flowing through insulated wires is harmless, yet he completely ignores the reality of what happens when you make direct contact. Does he truly believe he's invincible?🙂😱😁
Personally, I didn't even grasp how electricity worked until seventh grade.🤣
What’s the point in trying to explain it over and over? It’s incredibly difficult for a child to grasp something like that.
Kids at that age are naturally curious, which is perfectly legitimate. They’re just exploring.
At the end of the day, you can't predict how a kid is going to react. One child will actually listen when you tell them something is off-limits, while another will ignore you entirely and touch it anyway—for all the reasons we've already discussed. What exactly do we expect from them?
The likelihood of a child actually listening increases if they trust their parents—and let’s be clear, trust isn't built through physical discipline. Of course, you can't just paint everyone with the same brush here. You have kids who trust their parents completely but still push back because they're naturally curious, which is perfectly fine. Then you have kids who don't trust them at all yet follow instructions anyway. There are a hundred different variations to every situation; after all, every individual is a unique case.
Let’s be real: if your kid doesn't trust you, they aren't going to listen to a word you say. It’s that simple. Why bother barking orders if the foundation isn't there?😉

Probability is just probability. In this situation, we should be talking about certainty.😉
The only way you'll ever be truly safe is if you put outlet covers in every socket and keep a constant eye on your two-year-old. Is that really too much to ask?
And let's be honest—you can't take your eyes off a two-year-old for even a single second. Constant supervision isn't just a suggestion; it's a necessity.
If you can't see eye to eye on this, are you even ready to be a parent?
When I look at myself, I realize that I want to be with my child constantly. It isn't just about ensuring their safety—though that matters—it’s more fundamental than that. I simply want to be by their side at all times. Is that really such a radical thing to want?😉

So, you see your kid heading straight for an outlet, and you react by swatting their hand away. What happens then?
All you're doing is teaching them to fear punishment. They won't have any clue why they got hit in the first place. What's the point?
And once he loses sight of you—once he realizes there’s no authority around to hold him accountable—I wonder what happens next. Is it even possible that he’ll just shove a metal rod into an outlet? Just a thought.
The real issue here isn't the incident itself; it's the underlying message you've sent your child. You've essentially taught them that violence is an acceptable way to settle scores, provided they have the physical advantage. Is that really the lesson you want them to carry?
Keep this in mind: children aren't born with prejudices. They understand perfectly well that hitting them on the hand is still physical abuse.😉
Why? Because no one has conditioned them yet. They see the world for what it actually is—without forced opinions or a manipulated mindset.
They know it’s not about how hard you hit—it’s about the fact that you hit them at all.
Whether the strike is heavy or light, it strips away human dignity and damages the integrity of everyone involved—both the aggressor and the victim.
When we are out in public or traveling far from home, we need to be especially vigilant with our kids. A new environment means new risks.😉

It is perfectly normal for children to learn; let's not humiliate them or strip them of their dignity in the process.

The flawed premise here is this image of a parent hovering over a kid with a belt, just waiting for them to slip up.
you have parents who act like terrorists, and then you have parents who act like pieces of furniture.
both extremes are bad, and both are examples of poor parenting.
there's also this underlying assumption that someone will resort to punishment simply because a child is being defiant or expressing their own opinion.
if a parent falls into that category, it almost doesn't matter what kind of punishment they use; at that point, they're doing something wrong to their child regardless.
I feel for people, really, but if I have to weigh a child's safety and their long-term well-being against the need for them to learn—to ensure they don't grow up thinking they can get whatever they want through force or manipulation—then once explanations and talks fail, I’ll resort to a quick, "explained" swat on the backside without a shred of guilt.
Not too much, not too little, just enough so the message actually lands.
😉
I’ve never viewed so-called "difficult" kids as a problem, provided they were just energetic, playful, or a bit unruly.
on the contrary, I actually enjoyed being around them; we’d run around and goof off until they either hit a wall or just fell asleep.
but I have run into cases where kids had this streak of being genuinely "malicious" or vindictive—likely because they realized that shocking people was the fastest way to get their way.
for instance, if a kid tries to smash the TV because they can't go to the park or get ice cream, that is unacceptable behavior, and I certainly won't tolerate it just to protect the precious little ego of some spoiled brat.
you want to use force? fine, here's some force. you like that? no? you agree that talking is better? okay, then we'll stick to talking next time.

Karen Rodriguez3 said:Yeah, I’m totally on board with you there. I mean, I might have swatted my kids maybe two or three times in my life, but yeah, I did. And never without explaining why. Slapping isn't even in my vocabulary—honestly, I don't think they'd ever find a reason to get a slap. But hey, I won't say "never" because, well, life happens. You can't always predict how you'll react in the moment. But the main thing, like > mentioned, is that kids know we love them. They know everything we do is for their own good (and obviously, I'm not talking about physical abuse). So if we do snap or overreact sometimes, as long as we sit them down and explain what happened, I don't think it leaves any lasting trauma.
Isn't it also kind of weird when parents just yell at their kids for no real reason? Like, how many of us haven't done that? Not every day is perfect, and hormones are a real thing. I taught my kids a long time ago that moods change and it's okay to show emotions. If I'm sad, I cry. If I'm mad, I yell or just talk louder. I honestly think that's way healthier than acting like some robot who stays perfectly calm and monotone all the time. I feel like I'd probably be more traumatized by a mom who suppresses everything than one who actually shows how she feels.
Talking things through with kids is huge. They grow up fast, and pretty soon they realize exactly what they're doing and start testing those boundaries we set. Not every parent handles that well, but physical stuff? Definitely not the move.

Is there anything wrong with losing your cool?😉😁
I couldn't agree more. We should always be honest with our kids—always. If we're angry, we're angry. If we're sad, we're sad. That’s how you teach them that it’s okay to actually feel things.👍
I feel for the parents who put on an act. More importantly, I feel for the children forced to witness it. It’s incredibly damaging. Is there anything more destructive than a household built on pretense?
When everyone else starts screaming, I’ll be the one doing the shouting.😂
I’m the kind of person who lives by one rule: never say never.
When it comes to physical altercations, I honestly think anyone could find themselves in that position—whether it's getting hit or someone losing their temper and shouting. It’s a reality that can happen to any of us.
The bottom line is this: I know exactly how wrong this is.
People aren't perfect. They make mistakes. It’s time we start admitting that—both to ourselves and to others, especially when our blunders directly impact them. At the end of the day, it all comes down to accountability.

hollowtrucker77 said:The flawed premise here is this image of a parent hovering over a kid with a belt, just waiting for them to slip up.
you have parents who act like terrorists, and then you have parents who act like pieces of furniture.
both extremes are bad, and both are examples of poor parenting.
there's also this underlying assumption that someone will resort to punishment simply because a child is being defiant or expressing their own opinion.
if a parent falls into that category, it almost doesn't matter what kind of punishment they use; at that point, they're doing something wrong to their child regardless.
I feel for people, really, but if I have to weigh a child's safety and their long-term well-being against the need for them to learn—to ensure they don't grow up thinking they can get whatever they want through force or manipulation—then once explanations and talks fail, I’ll resort to a quick, "explained" swat on the backside without a shred of guilt.
Not too much, not too little, just enough so the message actually lands.
😉
I’ve never viewed so-called "difficult" kids as a problem, provided they were just energetic, playful, or a bit unruly.
on the contrary, I actually enjoyed being around them; we’d run around and goof off until they either hit a wall or just fell asleep.
but I have run into cases where kids had this streak of being genuinely "malicious" or vindictive—likely because they realized that shocking people was the fastest way to get their way.
for instance, if a kid tries to smash the TV because they can't go to the park or get ice cream, that is unacceptable behavior, and I certainly won't tolerate it just to protect the precious little ego of some spoiled brat.
you want to use force? fine, here's some force. you like that? no? you agree that talking is better? okay, then we'll stick to talking next time.

I basically agree with the rest of your take; just look back at my last post.
As for this part:
Personally, I find it hypocritical to try and teach a child non-violence by using force myself.
And to circle back to my previous point:
It's entirely possible that my kid might damage something or someone, leading me to snap and react physically.
But I know that isn't right.
Once I've cooled down, I'll likely tell them: "Look, when I hit you earlier, I thought it was okay in the moment, but I don't think it's right, and I still don't. It wasn't okay, and that's on me, not you."
Then we'll deal with whatever the actual problem was.
Because there is no way I am going to let my child go around hurting people or breaking things.🙂

Growing up, my mom used to discipline me behind the ear—I can still feel it. And I’ll honestly never forget when I was in eighth grade and she found a note from some boy; she absolutely tore me apart for it. Looking back on it now, I just feel this deep sense of shame. It’s like she made it impossible for me to even experience being in love, or even just being eighteen. I don't know what she expected from me, really, but I never felt like I could talk to her about anything in my life. When I got my first period, the first person I told was my grandma. My mom was always comparing me to someone else, too—to be honest, I can’t even remember the last time she gave me a hug, except for that one time I was in the hospital and I just threw myself at her. Even writing this now, the tears are starting to come. I respected her because, well, she was my mother and you just listen, and we eventually found our way to being friends after I got married, but I never actually told her how much she hurt me back then. Now, I just cry and vent to my husband. Today, I have two kids, both boys, and I have never—ever—laid a hand on them. Not even a little tap, not even during a diaper change, though if I'm being real, I could probably knock my oldest flat every single day. But I refuse to let my child hide from me, run away, or shut me out. Sure, I raise my voice sometimes, and yeah, occasionally I lose my cool and yell until my voice cracks, but I am just so incredibly grateful that when my oldest comes home from school, he actually talks to me about his day. Communication is a bit harder with him, but I try so hard because I don't want there to be secrets between us, no matter what they are. It’s much easier with the younger one. Whatever problems they face in the future, I will always strive to be there and help them through it. If I had a boyfriend back in high school, my mom would have probably threatened to disown me in the local newspaper. And yet, seeing her today, she’s such a wonderful grandmother to my boys—she’s so patient with them—and it just makes me wonder why she couldn't have been even an eighth of that person when she was raising me.

Lawrence Wilson35 said:I basically agree with the rest of your take; just look back at my last post.
As for this part:
Personally, I find it hypocritical to try and teach a child non-violence by using force myself.
And to circle back to my previous point:
It's entirely possible that my kid might damage something or someone, leading me to snap and react physically.
But I know that isn't right.
Once I've cooled down, I'll likely tell them: "Look, when I hit you earlier, I thought it was okay in the moment, but I don't think it's right, and I still don't. It wasn't okay, and that's on me, not you."
Then we'll deal with whatever the actual problem was.
Because there is no way I am going to let my child go around hurting people or breaking things.🙂

Of course, talking it out, explaining things, and reaching an agreement comes before everything else; nobody even remotely sane would argue with that.
however, if I actually have to resort to physical punishment, I’m certainly not going to turn around and tell the kid—or anyone else for that matter—that I made a mistake, because I don't believe I did.
That’s a completely different issue: when a parent hits a kid simply because they’re exhausted or cranky, which happens all the time, or because they hit them once and it worked, so they fall into the trap of using hitting as the easiest path forward.
THAT IS NOT PARENTING!!
if I end up having to use punishment, it's only because nothing else has worked, which is already a failure in itself, and that’s exactly what needs to be explained to the child—that punishment is fundamentally a bad thing.
once it reaches the point where punishment is necessary, the most important thing is to make sure it's appropriate and kept to a minimum so the message actually lands.
if a firm tone helps—not yelling, because I don't believe in shouting—then great.
if I have to raise my voice a bit, fine, I'll do it.
if I have to make a threat, well, alright then (though that means I better follow through on what I said).
and if absolutely nothing else works, and the situation is such that you can't just sit there and explain it in detail, well—damn it—sometimes the lesson has to be learned the hard way when they refuse to listen to reason.

Matthew Morales17 said:Bravo, you hit the nail right on the head! Honestly, several women in this group (without naming names!) have basically turned their parents into absolute saints, even though they were beaten as kids. And of course, it was always under the guise of being "for their own good," right?! It was always some perfectly deserved punishment, blah, blah, blah. There's actually a psychoanalyst who refers to this phenomenon as "parental totemization." If your parents act that way, it's much easier to just take all the blame onto yourself—to carry all the guilt—while giving God a total pass on everything they did wrong. Why would anyone do that? Because wouldn't it be just too incredibly painful to accept the reality that someone who is supposed to be your... well, let me go find that specific term and type it out for you so I don't have to struggle through it! ☕

I'm telling you, it really *was* for my own good! And honestly, it isn't some weird psychological thing. I remember every single time it happened because it didn't happen often, and looking back, I feel like those lessons were earned—they definitely stuck with me for life...🤷 I don't carry any trauma from it, and I call my parents my Gods because, aside from those disciplinary moments, they truly earned it through their love, kindness, integrity, and character!

Kyle Lee7 said:I'm doing just fine, thanks for asking. We’re having a discussion here, and if you happen to interpret that as a personal critique or an attack on you, well, that's really on you, not me.
I honestly have no idea how you were raised, what your life looks like now, or where your issues might stem from—and frankly, I'm not interested in digging into that.
If we're being completely honest, my own family was far from perfect either. My parents definitely had their flaws, but they didn't make one crucial mistake: they never laid a hand on me or used physical punishment, and for that, I am truly grateful.

At the end of the day, nobody is perfect. Maybe one day I'll lose my cool and snap at my own child, but that wouldn't make me an abusive person. My point here is about principles and core values. To actually understand whether an action is right or wrong, you have to break it down and look at the actual causes and effects.

The reality is that children are born good. They aren't inherently bad or "broken" people that need to be fixed. Any developmental psychologist in the US will tell you that almost any problematic behavior in a child is simply a reaction to conflict within the family. Children REACT. As adults, we should know better—we *must* know better. It's much easier to resort to force than to stop and ask, "How did MY actions contribute to this situation?"

I suppose "good" is a somewhat relative term here. However, a child isn't exactly a lump of clay that you can just mold into whatever shape you desire; the old idea that we are all born as a tabula rasa has been debunked for quite some time. I think the most widely accepted view is that a person's character is shaped by their upbringing, though it’s likely influenced—perhaps to a lesser degree—by certain innate traits.

It might be because of this that some children seem more challenging to raise than others. While I don't believe in corporal punishment, I also don't think there's much difference between a firm correction and actual abuse, even if some people tend to exaggerate that distinction. Life rarely presents itself in strictly black and white; it seems to be mostly shades of gray.

I haven't read through this entire thread, and since I'm not a parent myself, I can't claim to know everything, but I do spend a lot of time looking after my four-year-old sister. I’m definitely old enough to have kids of my own eventually, but I think I’ll hold off for a while longer. 😁

From what little I know about kids, they really are all unique, aren't they? You get some who are just sweet, calm, and actually listen when you talk to them, making everything feel easy, but then you get others who are just total handfuls—stubborn, rude, and refuse to budge on anything.
Personally, I agree that sometimes a little discipline is a godsend. I really can't stand parents who feel the need to lecture everyone else on how to raise their own kids; sorry, but let me have my own opinion, okay? I respect your views, but please don't try to manage my life, because trust me, you don't have all the answers.

I think the context matters a lot, too, like whether it's a boy or a girl, or if it's the mom or the dad doing the disciplining.
I’ve never laid a hand on my sister, but that’s only because I’m her brother, not her parent. My mom gives her a swat on the butt every now and then. Before anyone starts judging, you should realize my sister is basically like that kid in those Duracell commercials—just a wild little thing rolling around on the floor while her dad stands there completely clueless. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ
I dealt with a similar situation once at the local library. I didn't hit her, but honestly, none of the "time outs" or trying to explain things worked at all. In fact, she just started screaming even louder the moment she realized it bothered me and that I was asking her to be quiet. In the end, I had to scoop her up under one arm while juggling bags, toys, and pushing the stroller with my feet; she was thrashing around so much I practically had to drag her outside. I know some of you probably have plenty of theories on what I should have done differently, but like I said, every child is different, and unless you know my sister personally, there isn't any advice you could give me that would actually work. I didn't hit her, but if she were mine, she definitely would have gotten a spanking.

To me, a child is kind of like a little animal; they're essentially selfish creatures who don't care about anyone else, and if you let them take control, everything just goes south.
It’s on me to maintain that control. Some kids are easy to handle, while others are impossible. I don't believe in fighting with kids, and I definitely think physical discipline should be a last resort that we avoid as much as possible, but for heaven's sake, a child shouldn't be the one deciding where we go, when we eat, or what we buy. That isn't abuse; it's just a quick swat to show who's actually in charge. I mean, "spanking" has been around since the beginning of time, hasn't it? It's only recently that it's become this massive taboo, with people claiming that kids who get disciplined grow up to be violent criminals or whatever. What happened to almost everyone living before the 1900s? Were they all just mentally unstable?

I feel like we put way too much emphasis on children these days. Suddenly, they're treated as these incredibly precious, delicate little beings. In the US, you always hear that phrase "for the children"... everything is suddenly "for the children." Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against kids and I do want them in my life one day, but let's come down from the clouds a bit. A hundred years ago, kids were working in coal mines, and there are still places where that happens today. I'm not saying that's good, I just want to point out how extreme people's views have become.

I personally got plenty of swats when I was growing up, but there was always a reason for it. I don't hold it against my parents at all; if anything, I think they raised me really well. We have a great relationship now, to the point where they feel more like friends than parents. And for the record, I am not a violent person. 😁

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

hollowtrucker77 said:Of course, talking it out, explaining things, and reaching an agreement comes before everything else; nobody even remotely sane would argue with that.
however, if I actually have to resort to physical punishment, I’m certainly not going to turn around and tell the kid—or anyone else for that matter—that I made a mistake, because I don't believe I did.
That’s a completely different issue: when a parent hits a kid simply because they’re exhausted or cranky, which happens all the time, or because they hit them once and it worked, so they fall into the trap of using hitting as the easiest path forward.
THAT IS NOT PARENTING!!
if I end up having to use punishment, it's only because nothing else has worked, which is already a failure in itself, and that’s exactly what needs to be explained to the child—that punishment is fundamentally a bad thing.
once it reaches the point where punishment is necessary, the most important thing is to make sure it's appropriate and kept to a minimum so the message actually lands.
if a firm tone helps—not yelling, because I don't believe in shouting—then great.
if I have to raise my voice a bit, fine, I'll do it.
if I have to make a threat, well, alright then (though that means I better follow through on what I said).
and if absolutely nothing else works, and the situation is such that you can't just sit there and explain it in detail, well—damn it—sometimes the lesson has to be learned the hard way when they refuse to listen to reason.

If I were to strike someone—anyone, for any reason—I would consider it a mistake, because violence is fundamentally wrong to me.
There are no excuses here: I didn't hit someone stronger than me, nor did I hit them because they "deserved" it.🙄
I don't deal in double standards. No matter who I hit, how hard, or what the reason was—striking someone is wrong.
It’s fascinating to me how some women think they have the right to hit a man, while he isn't allowed to touch them.🙄
In my view, nobody should be hitting anybody.

I have to admit, I find this quite confusing.
Based on what you said earlier, it seems like you believe if nothing else works, hitting a child will do the trick—yet then you claim such a practice isn't true parenting.
The reality is, it often feels like hitting is the only thing that gets a reaction.
And once that happens, the cycle of "repeated hitting" begins.
Simply because it "worked" once.
Unless, of course, you realize that hitting is detrimental to both you and the child.
Perhaps I misinterpreted your stance...

Furthermore, many people seem to think apologizing to a child is beneath them.
Why? Because they view children as "lesser beings."
The truth is a child is a human being.
Just as a woman is a human being.
Just as a man is a human being.
Every individual possesses dignity.
But we run into that issue of religious totalitarianism: the idea of man versus woman...🙄 come on...
When I make a mistake involving someone in my circle, I will tell them—whether they are rich or poor, sick or healthy, older or younger.
To me, all people are equal.

Let’s get one thing straight here: I actually caught a beating once because my mom fell hook, line, and sinker for something that turned out to be a total lie.
She felt terrible about it afterward, so she gave me an apology, and we moved past it just fine.
On the flip side, I’ve been in situations where I was dead wrong, but I didn't feel even the slightest bit of pressure to apologize or admit I messed up.
What I’m getting at is that when physical discipline is actually earned, there’s no point in playing the "I'm sorry" card or pretending you didn't screw up.
By the way, I totally agree that in some perfect utopia, nobody should ever end up in a confrontation unless it's just a clash of ideas.
But look, we don't live in a textbook utopia—unless, I suppose, you consider the world perfect if you just approach it the right way, appreciate every single option handed to you, and take full ownership of your own actions.
As for anything else, please, just read what I wrote one more time—with a little bit of good faith, you really shouldn't have any trouble grasping my point.
🙂

Daniel Wells4
I suspect you might be overlooking one thing—and please don't take this as a judgment, I just want to point out something many people miss, so forgive me if using you as an example feels intrusive.
Children are actually quite capable when it comes to cooperation.
Her being "naughty" in the library wasn't random. It had a reason.
She wasn't acting out to hurt your feelings; if anything, she was sending a signal that something was wrong, which you happened to overlook (not that I'm blaming you).
Maybe she was bored in the library (she's four, after all), maybe it was too hot, maybe she was tired, or maybe she just wanted to engage with you...
I’m not suggesting you should have caved and done whatever she wanted—that would be the other extreme.
I think you simply needed to read her. At the first sign of pushback, you could have said: "I see you're tired or hungry or something. Let me find two more books. Want to help me?"
You mentioned you used a time-out.
Personally, I'm not a fan of that approach.😉 Imagine you're on a date with a woman. You tell her you're sweltering, and she just ignores you? Like you don't even exist? That's how it feels.
Look, I wasn't there, I don't know the specifics, and I don't know you. I have no intention of criticizing you personally.
I just wanted to highlight that human relationships are far more complex than we often give them credit for.
No hard feelings.

hollowtrucker77 said:Let’s get one thing straight here: I actually caught a beating once because my mom fell hook, line, and sinker for something that turned out to be a total lie.
She felt terrible about it afterward, so she gave me an apology, and we moved past it just fine.
On the flip side, I’ve been in situations where I was dead wrong, but I didn't feel even the slightest bit of pressure to apologize or admit I messed up.
What I’m getting at is that when physical discipline is actually earned, there’s no point in playing the "I'm sorry" card or pretending you didn't screw up.
By the way, I totally agree that in some perfect utopia, nobody should ever end up in a confrontation unless it's just a clash of ideas.
But look, we don't live in a textbook utopia—unless, I suppose, you consider the world perfect if you just approach it the right way, appreciate every single option handed to you, and take full ownership of your own actions.
As for anything else, please, just read what I wrote one more time—with a little bit of good faith, you really shouldn't have any trouble grasping my point.
🙂

To me, an ideal world—or any world at all—is one filled with conflict, precisely because no two people are identical.
And that is exactly where the beauty lies: in our differences.
I don't believe conflict is inherently a problem. The fact that I am different from you doesn't hurt either of us. You will have your convictions, and I will have mine, and that is perfectly fine.
The issue is the MANNER in which the conflict unfolds.
If I defend my beliefs by stripping someone else of their dignity (for example, through physical violence), then my methods are the problem.
The end does not justify the means.