Did the brawl in paradise actually happen?

Carl Anderson76 said:

There are certain kids where you just can't sit them down and explain things or try to use some softer approach to get them to stop doing stuff that’s genuinely dangerous for themselves or everyone else.
Some behaviors just aren't okay, and you've gotta nip them in the bud right away—mostly for the kid's own good, too.
I know I'm probably going to get some heat for saying something unpopular that nobody wants to hear, but hey, facts are facts.

That's not quite right. Some parents just don't know how to communicate, and yeah, easier ways out exist—like physical punishment—but let's be real: being a parent is hard work by definition. Just looking for a shortcut is honestly a bit absurd. If you don't have the patience or the drive to put in the work using better, healthier, more constructive, and LONG-TERM methods, then maybe you shouldn't be having kids in the first place.

You are making such an incredibly smart point here!
Bolded—I mean, so many people in this country end up having kids just because they saw everyone else doing it, without any real plan, any vision, or even a genuine love and desire for those children. It is truly heartbreaking, but so many people marry and start families without any real idea of what they're getting into. And honestly, isn't that exactly why we see so many divorces, so many unhappy childhoods, miserable lifelong marriages, and just pure misery?👍 👎

Carl Anderson76 said:Honestly, some parents just don't seem to care about what's actually good for their kids. If they really did, they’d stop and ask themselves if hitting a child is even productive instead of being so incredibly rigid about it. They act like they're God, thinking they have all the answers. And heaven forbid they actually admit they might be wrong—even when they know deep down they're off base. It really just comes down to pure ego, a total lack of patience, and a complete disregard for Life itself.

Well, isn't that just lovely! 👍

Ryan Morris15 said:I find this quite difficult to wrap my head around.
I suppose by "us thirty" you mean an entire classroom, and while I might believe you if you said twenty of you were wandering the city on weekends, the idea that twenty sets of parents are all handing out beatings... well, I suspect our society isn't quite at that stage yet.

Sure, it’s much easier to just close our eyes and pretend things aren't this bad—to act like physical punishment isn't a problem and doesn't leave scars, or that spoiled kids aren't running wild through the city because their parents don't bother to discipline them.

Carl Anderson76 said:There are 26 of us total, though the ratio is somewhere in that ballpark—don't call me out on the exact math unless you want me to go through everyone one by one and take notes. And look, not all the hitting is like what you described; sometimes it’s "just" slapping. From what I know for sure, about four kids in the group are dealing with the heavy stuff, while the others haven't really specified exactly how bad their situation is. But honestly, it doesn't even matter. The physical pain is one thing, but the emotional and mental toll is way worse. Physical bruises fade in a few days, max, but the stuff that shapes who you become? That sticks. It stays with you forever. Even in my own apartment building, there's this woman who used to beat her kids so hard you could hear them screaming from the third floor all the way down to my unit on the ground floor. It was haunting. Then there was this one lady whose husband was being abusive both physically and sexually, and he'd take it out on their son too. We had a severe alcoholic in the building, and at least three families where the men are struggling with PTSD from their service—you can only imagine what the atmosphere is like in those homes. And it's not just us; the neighboring buildings aren't any better. Just a couple of months ago, I saw a woman walking to the grocery store in broad daylight with massive bruises all over her face, just trying to buy milk. I remember my friend's brother used to get hit with a belt; I still vividly remember his hands being covered in little cuts. I didn't even realize a belt could do that much damage. Even my little sister got hammered when she was barely a year old just because she dug some dirt out of a potted plant. My dad called her a child of the devil, and then she got hit even harder just because she cried while he was doing it... and so on. I know way too many cases like this. It's terrible. I'm not making this up, I have no reason to lie.

That is absolutely horrifying! Seriously, where on earth do you live? What city is this? Though, I have a feeling it's the same story everywhere across the country. These monsters just wear masks and pretend to be "good people and decent neighbors" while they're out on the street!👎

Alex Patel96 said:It’s honestly better to never have kids at all than to be an abusive parent.👍

Look, I’m a parent now—I’ve been on both sides of this. I took plenty of beatings growing up, mostly because my mom just didn't know how to handle things—but I don't view her as an abuser. I don't hold it against her, and honestly, I don't carry any baggage from it either. She was only 19 when she had me—she'd lash out whenever she felt overwhelmed or lost control of a situation, and frankly, that's just how she was raised.
So, she started leaning into these punishments that I honestly consider straight-up psychological abuse—it was relentless. At one point, I just snapped and asked her if she’d rather just slap me and get it over with, instead of this constant, chaotic mess where she clearly has no idea what she’s doing with her own life.

Look, on the flip side—I’ve slapped my little girl on her diaper a couple of times when things got actually dangerous. Like that one time she slipped out of my grip and tried to bolt straight into traffic—I was scared to death, and honestly, a quick smack on the diaper for both her and me was just part of the reaction. You have to realize, at two or three years old, you can't exactly sit them down for a heart-to-heart discussion about safety. At that age, a little tap on the backside isn't even real pain—it's more like a sharp little shock to the system.

Ever since we actually started talking things through, nothing like this has ever happened to us again—and it’s not going to. She feels secure because if she’s the center of our world, then I’m the safety radius around her. If I say NO, she trusts me. Period. ☕

Look, she’s just a kid—a quiet, well-behaved kid. Dealing with a high-energy toddler can't be easy, so I get why he’s taking those Legion outbursts out on the house. Honestly? If it were me, I’d probably give him a good smack on the ass too. 😁

Man, I feel like I’ve heard this story a million times from my grandma, my uncle, all the old folks...
Whenever things don't go their way with kids these days, they immediately start yelling about how "discipline is heaven-sent" or whatever.😁

They kind of have a point, and they don't. Like, back in the day, a teacher at school actually had authority—some even carried a ruler! You knew there was peace in the classroom because people respected them. Nowadays? Every single muscle-bound kid is posting some video on Instagram showing how they absolutely laid into a teacher.
Or look at BBB when they travel to Europe for an away game and end up causing absolute chaos, like they do every other week.
In those cases, yeah, that kind of toughness feels like a godsend.

This PDF is such a slog to get through, honestly. Heavy topics, man. I'm really just here for the stuff about stuttering. This title caught my eye, but once I saw what it was actually about, I thought maybe we could dive deeper into this...

As for hitting kids in a family setting? Absolutely not! 👎
Even if a kid is being a total wild animal, it doesn't help. I have a cousin who is a complete menace, and the only thing that stops him is his dad stepping in. But at the end of the day, the kid is only behaving because he's terrified of his father's authority; otherwise, he's still just a loose cannon and a headache.
There is zero benefit to it...

A parent who hits their kid (look, a little swat on the butt is fine and sometimes necessary 🙂) is basically just solving their own immediate problem because they clearly don't know how to handle it any other way. They don't even stop to ask what kind of trauma that leaves on the child. And then what? Instead of growing up feeling secure, they lose that safety net and end up with traumas and complexes... which can lead to issues just like stuttering.
What "heaven"? In that case, that kind of violence is straight out of hell...

ooo oops😵

🙂
good luck with those little ones, everyone—keep it chill 😁
you guys should really swing by the thread about stuttering... seriously, just look at how much damage violence against kids can actually do. I'm not saying it's the direct cause every single time (it wasn't in my case), but man, it can definitely be a huge contributing factor

Matthew Morales17 said:The very fact that you're claiming your parents couldn't have been any better proves that you *are* keeping them on a pedestal! Because let's be real, anyone can improve, right? Unless you're claiming they were perfect, which means they're on that pedestal! And that part about them feeling bad for hitting you—well, shouldn't they have avoided hitting you altogether?! Are you seriously suggesting that it was harder for them to deal with the guilt than it was for you to take the hits?!☕

I have a wonderful relationship with my parents. Sure, I went through that typical teenage rebellion against their authority, but once the dust settled, I realized they truly are the best in the world. Over time, they transitioned from being my disciplinarians to being my friends. 🤷

Regarding the physical discipline I endured—it wasn't like I was being beaten senseless; it was just a few times I got hit with a belt. Honestly, once the initial sting fades, once I stop sobbing uncontrollably and realize I had seriously messed up for the umpteenth time and crossed a line—everything is fine. And yes, it was harder on my parents. First, because they had to go against their own principles and values, and second, because punishing someone you brought into this world, someone you dedicate your entire life to raising, is no easy feat. In fact, my mom would actually cry after she disciplined me.
But looking back at those moments when I was punished, I still maintain that it was necessary.

Hannah White2 said:Honestly, nothing beats having a buddy over, you yell out "Hey babe, grab us some bourbon!"—of course, bourbon—and she's there in a heartbeat...
So how on earth is a kid supposed to ignore you?😁
Real talk: parenting is all about how the parents communicate with each other.

If I’m running my mouth being negative about gay people😛 then tomorrow, during puberty, my kid sees someone of that orientation on TV at an anti-gay rally...

You raise them by setting an example—call it whatever you want—not by using belts or some ridiculous corporal punishment nonsense.
My music teacher, Mazur, used to yank me by the hair right behind the ear if I didn't hit the right note on the flute, which is why today I won't sing and wouldn't touch an instrument if you paid me.
One single tug and just like that, music was dead to me—and I could've been the next Matija Dedić...

If you had the chops to be the next Matthew, you would've made it. And honestly? It wasn't your teacher's fault. It was on you. Some people manage to succeed despite whatever obstacles get thrown at them, rather than because of some excuse.
Real talent is unstoppable. Everything else is just a story we tell ourselves. 🤷

Matthew Morales17 said:I don't know about all that; I have a 20-year-old daughter (which means she's been in those peak "difficult" years for about six years now!) and I have never once found a single reason to lay a hand on her or hit her. Just the thought of it makes me feel sick! If I ever thought about hitting my daughter—or my wife, for that matter—I think I'd basically be committing harakiri, wouldn't I?! And we're talking about two totally different personalities here. My wife comes from a very traditional background, whereas my daughter is... well, she's my blood. She doesn't back down, she loves to debate, she can be quite demanding financially, she's high-energy, and sometimes she acts like she couldn't care less what I think! But I've always taught her to respect herself and never let anyone walk over her. Not anyone, not even me. When we're arguing, she'll often throw it back at me, saying, "Well, you're the one who taught me to be like this!" Ha! Honestly, she did. I just sit there, listen, and smile to myself because I'm actually proud that she learned that lesson and won't let just anyone mess with her—not even her old man. What do you mean, 5%?! Man, that's love! You don't hit the people you love; you hold them close and protect them. Just remember that! 👍
P.S. There are some truly terrible kids out there, and I think that's what you're referring to. But honestly, just look at who their parents are and you'll change your mind instantly. When you see how some of these clueless parents act, you realize how lucky those kids are to be well-behaved!

Sure, but I assume your daughter was a perfectly fine, obedient kid until puberty hit.
If you had a daughter like I was to my parents before middle school—someone who constantly grated on your nerves, refused to follow a single rule, and rebelled against everything—then maybe I'd ask for your opinion on how to handle it.
You can't talk about what you would or wouldn't do if you haven't actually lived through the situation.

Morgan Cooper34 said:I have a wonderful relationship with my parents. Sure, I went through that typical teenage rebellion against their authority, but once the dust settled, I realized they truly are the best in the world. Over time, they transitioned from being my disciplinarians to being my friends. 🤷

Regarding the physical discipline I endured—it wasn't like I was being beaten senseless; it was just a few times I got hit with a belt. Honestly, once the initial sting fades, once I stop sobbing uncontrollably and realize I had seriously messed up for the umpteenth time and crossed a line—everything is fine. And yes, it was harder on my parents. First, because they had to go against their own principles and values, and second, because punishing someone you brought into this world, someone you dedicate your entire life to raising, is no easy feat. In fact, my mom would actually cry after she disciplined me.
But looking back at those moments when I was punished, I still maintain that it was necessary.

http://www.example-us-site.com/article/1849
The main point lies in that final sentence.
I think your mother took the responsibility upon herself when she disciplined you; she didn't blame you for the physical punishment itself.🙏
Anyone can snap, but we are responsible for our own reactions, not the people around us.

Honestly, my mom was actually crying after I beat her up.

To me, it just sounds like your mom didn't have much emotional grit. Like, hysterical crying. If those tears were actually coming from a place of genuine regret, she wouldn't be doing the same thing all over again. That kind of crying usually symbolizes something else entirely. I don't know, though—I'm obviously not an expert on how women work.

Carl Anderson76 said:

Honestly, my mom was actually crying after I beat her up.

To me, it just sounds like your mom didn't have much emotional grit. Like, hysterical crying. If those tears were actually coming from a place of genuine regret, she wouldn't be doing the same thing all over again. That kind of crying usually symbolizes something else entirely. I don't know, though—I'm obviously not an expert on how women work.

Hysterical? Weak nerves?
There is nothing more dangerous than a baseless assumption.

Morgan Cooper34 said:I have a wonderful relationship with my parents. Sure, I went through that typical teenage rebellion against their authority, but once the dust settled, I realized they truly are the best in the world. Over time, they transitioned from being my disciplinarians to being my friends. 🤷

Regarding the physical discipline I endured—it wasn't like I was being beaten senseless; it was just a few times I got hit with a belt. Honestly, once the initial sting fades, once I stop sobbing uncontrollably and realize I had seriously messed up for the umpteenth time and crossed a line—everything is fine. And yes, it was harder on my parents. First, because they had to go against their own principles and values, and second, because punishing someone you brought into this world, someone you dedicate your entire life to raising, is no easy feat. In fact, my mom would actually cry after she disciplined me.
But looking back at those moments when I was punished, I still maintain that it was necessary.

Kids have this massive blind spot where they think their "ideal" world is more real than what's actually happening—so it’s super common for them to make excuses for their parents and claim everything was just "necessary."
Sure, there are nuances, but you can't hide behind that tired old cliché anymore. We know better now. We know hitting a kid is garbage for their mental health; it leaves scars—emotional ones—that don't just go away. It messes with how they connect with people and build relationships later in life.

Morgan Cooper34 said:I have a wonderful relationship with my parents. Sure, I went through that typical teenage rebellion against their authority, but once the dust settled, I realized they truly are the best in the world. Over time, they transitioned from being my disciplinarians to being my friends. 🤷

Regarding the physical discipline I endured—it wasn't like I was being beaten senseless; it was just a few times I got hit with a belt. Honestly, once the initial sting fades, once I stop sobbing uncontrollably and realize I had seriously messed up for the umpteenth time and crossed a line—everything is fine. And yes, it was harder on my parents. First, because they had to go against their own principles and values, and second, because punishing someone you brought into this world, someone you dedicate your entire life to raising, is no easy feat. In fact, my mom would actually cry after she disciplined me.
But looking back at those moments when I was punished, I still maintain that it was necessary.

If a person doesn't realize that kind of thing isn't right, it can take months, maybe even years of psychotherapy to truly process it. I've read plenty about it. I am certain your parents never actually apologized for the belt, right? Because goodness knows, they probably felt like it was entirely your fault!🤷

Morgan Cooper34 said:Sure, but I assume your daughter was a perfectly fine, obedient kid until puberty hit.
If you had a daughter like I was to my parents before middle school—someone who constantly grated on your nerves, refused to follow a single rule, and rebelled against everything—then maybe I'd ask for your opinion on how to handle it.
You can't talk about what you would or wouldn't do if you haven't actually lived through the situation.

How can you even claim to know what kind of kid you were during those early years? Did your mom and dad tell you stories about it, or do you just remember being disciplined and think that somehow proves you weren't a good kid? Maybe your dad lost his temper a little, or he and your mom got into a heated argument and then you ended up catching the fallout? They get stressed out, and then comes the belt? Or maybe they were fighting more often, and you intentionally acted out because, honestly, a kid would much rather take a beating than watch their "gods" tear each other apart? A child thinks it's their own fault when the "gods" start fighting, right? Because clearly, the "gods" can't be wrong! Is the fact that you still view them as perfect today my proof that I'm right (not that I care about being right)? As for my daughter, she has always been wonderful to me, both then and now. That doesn't mean she doesn't mess up sometimes—kids will be kids, after all! I make mistakes too, and I'll probably be making them for the rest of my life. It's actually great for her to see that. She's realized that her dad is just a regular human being, not some alien, perfect creature that she could never hope to live up to. You know, that feeling of never being quite good enough... ugh, just gross.

Matthew Morales17 said:How can you even claim to know what kind of kid you were during those early years? Did your mom and dad tell you stories about it, or do you just remember being disciplined and think that somehow proves you weren't a good kid? Maybe your dad lost his temper a little, or he and your mom got into a heated argument and then you ended up catching the fallout? They get stressed out, and then comes the belt? Or maybe they were fighting more often, and you intentionally acted out because, honestly, a kid would much rather take a beating than watch their "gods" tear each other apart? A child thinks it's their own fault when the "gods" start fighting, right? Because clearly, the "gods" can't be wrong! Is the fact that you still view them as perfect today my proof that I'm right (not that I care about being right)? As for my daughter, she has always been wonderful to me, both then and now. That doesn't mean she doesn't mess up sometimes—kids will be kids, after all! I make mistakes too, and I'll probably be making them for the rest of my life. It's actually great for her to see that. She's realized that her dad is just a regular human being, not some alien, perfect creature that she could never hope to live up to. You know, that feeling of never being quite good enough... ugh, just gross.

Look, I remember things from when I was barely eighteen months old—you wouldn't believe it if I told you.🙄

Helou, they aren't "gods." They're just people.
They aren't infallible; they messed up. They messed up with me, too.
But despite everything, they're still the best parents I've ever known. It's not about perfection; they’re simply the finest group of parents or caregivers I've encountered in my life.

For heaven's sake, please just read and stop assuming. Seriously. 🙄

Morgan Cooper34 said:Go read the thread about violent children. Personally, I've sat there and watched kids slap, spit at, and scream at their parents while the mother just crouches down next to them saying, "Oh honey, we don't do that."
Those kids grow up to be delinquents.

As for that bolded part, I was talking about parental statements and parental actions. In the sense that you truly never know how a single critique, a smack, or even just a harsh tone might wreck a child's self-esteem and shape their future behavior.

John Parker5—you're comparing spanking a kid for every little thing to "major" offenses. Take me, for example. I got my first real beating when I swiped candy from a convenience store for the fourth time. I was four years old. For the first three times, my mom tried the gentle approach—"Sweetie, that's not right, that's not okay." But honestly? If she hadn't laid the hammer down on that fourth time, I probably would've kept stealing.

I'm right there with the author on this one. 👍
I definitely support discipline when it's necessary. I remember mine clearly, and even now at thirty years old, I know I earned every bit of it. 🤷
Once, my dad really laid into me because I went outside during a New Year's Eve celebration in a rough part of town where bullets were actually flying through the air. My dad had explicitly forbidden it, but I went anyway. When I finally walked through the door, he was absolutely white with worry and rage. He headed straight for me and I tried to lock myself in my room... 😁 but he kicked the door down and gave me what I deserved. It worked, too; I never thought about doing something that reckless again.
He once told me that every disciplinary measure he took was JUST ANOTHER FORM OF LOVE, because if he didn't love me, he wouldn't bother looking out for me in the first place. Looking back, I'm actually grateful to him and my mom for every lesson they taught me. 😍 And I don't carry any trauma from it!
I should also mention that having a busy modern schedule isn't an excuse for poor parenting. My parents held high-level executive positions and were incredibly busy, but they made up for it with the quality of the time they spent raising me, rather than just the quantity.
There was no way I wasn't eating whatever Mom cooked (if she got upset and stayed silent, I’d lose my dinner privileges!), which taught me to respect the food provided. There was no way I wasn't in bed by 8 PM, brushing my teeth, or greeting every guest who walked through our front door. No swearing, no cursing, 🙂 and so on... not to mention the absolute respect we showed our teachers and professors in school.
Nowadays, when I see my best friend, it’s heartbreaking. She has spoiled her daughter rotten because she refuses to discipline her when she deserves it. The little girl fights with kids in preschool and even hits the nannies watching her just because they won't give her everything she wants—just like her mom does, who just buys her gifts because she's too afraid to actually parent. This kid has been a little tyrant since she was four, and her parents can't even have a second child because she's too demanding, yet they refuse to see that they are the ones failing! Every time they go out, it’s a total meltdown because she’s hysterical when she doesn't get her way, and if they give in, there's no end to the demands. It turns a simple outing into whatever whim the child has. It's a disaster! 👎

Matthew Morales17 said:I think this is a really powerful point, but can we look closer? If someone hits me, I can usually point to a reason, right? Maybe I burnt the steak, or maybe I was just a bit rude to my wife (ha!), or perhaps she’s having a rough day at work and takes it out on me. For an adult, there are always these "excuses" or mitigating circumstances to wrap our heads around. But when parents hit a child? There aren't any excuses or easy ways to justify it; it's just pure, heavy hardship! A kid doesn't even truly understand what they did wrong, and the absolute worst part is the realization that they're being struck by their own parents! At that age—and for many people throughout their entire lives, unfortunately, since some folks stay immature forever—parents are basically GODS to a child! I have never once laid a hand on my daughter, and looking around at the world today, I am so incredibly proud of that! 👍

But honestly, I have to disagree because that isn't how it worked for me. I knew exactly when I messed up, even when I was only three years old... And I’ll tell you this: back then at three, and now at thirty, my parents are still absolute GODS on this earth to me. Their authority always made sense. Every single time there was a punishment or a discipline, I either got a clear explanation afterward or plenty of warnings beforehand. I was a high-energy kid, and they knew exactly how to raise me while making sure I felt completely loved!

Morgan Cooper34 said:Oh, and I nearly forgot this part.

There is a massive difference between psychological or verbal abuse—we're talking about the daily grind of crushing a child's spirit, systematically dismantling their sense of self and integrity—and just offering some justified criticism when they actually mess up. You know, using critique as a legitimate tool for guidance.

It’s the same deal with physical stuff. There is a world of difference between outright physical abuse—beating a kid just to vent or to break their will—and using corporal punishment as a last resort when nothing else seems to work.

In both cases of true abuse, you end up with traumatized children who never felt truly loved by their parents. But in the second scenario—with occasional criticism or discipline—if the child still feels that underlying parental love even after being corrected, there isn't any chance of them becoming traumatized.

AMEN! 🙏