Did the brawl in paradise actually happen?

There are people out there who have never once laid a finger on their kid, yet they’ve messed with them mentally so badly that, honestly, a little spanking might have actually been better if it could have saved the damage.
Being a decent parent isn't something you can just pick up from a weekend seminar. Sure, you can sit through lectures and listen to all the experts, but at the end of the day, you’re going to react based on instinct. Plus, everyone processes information differently in their own heads. No one can hand you a manual that covers every single possible scenario while also accounting for your specific child's personality.
And I think the folks here saying they’ve given their kids a swat aren't talking about being abusive or leaving bruises. Obviously, actual physical violence is just straight-up abuse and has zero place in parenting—that's not discipline, that's just being a jerk.
But look, putting outlet covers in so a kid doesn't hurt themselves when they're obsessed with poking things into them? That isn't really "parenting" either. It's just damage control. The kid hasn't actually learned anything, and they might go over to a friend's house for coffee and try the exact same thing because there aren't any covers there. How are you supposed to explain to a two-year-old that they shouldn't stick stuff in electrical sockets?
Or what about when they bolt from your hand and run toward the street? Like, am I just supposed to grab them and pull them back? They’ll probably just turn it into a game of tag with me the next time.
I guess I figure it's healthier to give them a quick swat to scare them away from danger than to let them get hit by a car. Obviously, this applies to those little ones who can't talk yet, but even then, you've got to explain why you reacted that way once the initial shock wears off.

redviper17 said:AMEN! 🙏

Yeah, I’m with them on that one.

She’s basically an angel descended from heaven... though if she actually behaved herself, she might have stayed there... 😁
I’m not one to advocate for corporal punishment—I don't have kids myself, so I can't say how I'd react if my own little one decided to torch the house—but speaking from experience, a good thrashing doesn't exactly solve the problem when things get this out of hand... 🤷

Robin Diaz4 said:She’s basically an angel descended from heaven... though if she actually behaved herself, she might have stayed there... 😁
I’m not one to advocate for corporal punishment—I don't have kids myself, so I can't say how I'd react if my own little one decided to torch the house—but speaking from experience, a good thrashing doesn't exactly solve the problem when things get this out of hand... 🤷

Bravo, you hit the nail right on the head! Honestly, several women in this group (without naming names!) have basically turned their parents into absolute saints, even though they were beaten as kids. And of course, it was always under the guise of being "for their own good," right?! It was always some perfectly deserved punishment, blah, blah, blah. There's actually a psychoanalyst who refers to this phenomenon as "parental totemization." If your parents act that way, it's much easier to just take all the blame onto yourself—to carry all the guilt—while giving God a total pass on everything they did wrong. Why would anyone do that? Because wouldn't it be just too incredibly painful to accept the reality that someone who is supposed to be your... well, let me go find that specific term and type it out for you so I don't have to struggle through it! ☕

Karen Rodriguez3 said:There are people out there who have never once laid a finger on their kid, yet they’ve messed with them mentally so badly that, honestly, a little spanking might have actually been better if it could have saved the damage.
Being a decent parent isn't something you can just pick up from a weekend seminar. Sure, you can sit through lectures and listen to all the experts, but at the end of the day, you’re going to react based on instinct. Plus, everyone processes information differently in their own heads. No one can hand you a manual that covers every single possible scenario while also accounting for your specific child's personality.
And I think the folks here saying they’ve given their kids a swat aren't talking about being abusive or leaving bruises. Obviously, actual physical violence is just straight-up abuse and has zero place in parenting—that's not discipline, that's just being a jerk.
But look, putting outlet covers in so a kid doesn't hurt themselves when they're obsessed with poking things into them? That isn't really "parenting" either. It's just damage control. The kid hasn't actually learned anything, and they might go over to a friend's house for coffee and try the exact same thing because there aren't any covers there. How are you supposed to explain to a two-year-old that they shouldn't stick stuff in electrical sockets?
Or what about when they bolt from your hand and run toward the street? Like, am I just supposed to grab them and pull them back? They’ll probably just turn it into a game of tag with me the next time.
I guess I figure it's healthier to give them a quick swat to scare them away from danger than to let them get hit by a car. Obviously, this applies to those little ones who can't talk yet, but even then, you've got to explain why you reacted that way once the initial shock wears off.

That’s just a pure survival instinct, and I don't think it falls under the category of physical punishment. Giving a two-year-old a little tap over their diaper because they darted into the street isn't the same thing as taking a belt to a ten-year-old.

Scott Miller7 said:Sure, it’s much easier to just close our eyes and pretend things aren't this bad—to act like physical punishment isn't a problem and doesn't leave scars, or that spoiled kids aren't running wild through the city because their parents don't bother to discipline them.

I don't close my eyes; I've seen plenty of hysterical, violent parents and have witnessed firsthand the lasting impact that has on children. I know this reality exists, but I find it quite difficult to believe that two-thirds of a single classroom are being physically disciplined; I used to teach, and while we had open conversations about these issues, those numbers were certainly much lower.
As a teacher myself now, I can say for certain that those figures seem unlikely. A colleague of mine conducted an anonymous survey recently, and I suspect the actual numbers were far more modest. It makes me wonder what kind of environment this specific class is in if truly two-thirds of the students are facing that kind of situation.

Unruly kids are running wild all over town on the weekends, but that’s because they aren't being raised properly by their parents, not because they aren't getting disciplined enough. You shouldn't start from the assumption that children are inherently bad.

Kyle Lee7 said:That’s just a pure survival instinct, and I don't think it falls under the category of physical punishment. Giving a two-year-old a little tap over their diaper because they darted into the street isn't the same thing as taking a belt to a ten-year-old.

Exactly, but it’s still a physical reaction.
Growing up, I never ended up with bruises or anything from my dad's "discipline"—I don't even remember the pain, just this massive wave of anger or fury.
On the flip side, my old man touched my shoulder just once—just a hand on the shoulder—because my brother and I were driving him absolutely insane, and it left a mark on my skin.
Who knows what would've happened if he’d actually laid a hand on me. 🙏
That’s why Dad always avoided any kind of physical contact or hitting; it was never that "gentle maternal spanking" type of thing. 😁

Anger and rage can actually feel much more intense than physical pain.
Personally, I’m against any kind of corporal punishment, and I’ll go as far as saying I’m against punitive discipline in general. In a healthy, functional American household where parents truly understand how to guide their children, there just isn't a need for it.
That being said, it absolutely infuriates me when I see unruly, disrespectful kids acting like little savages. I wouldn't tolerate that behavior, but the thing is, those kids aren't born "bad" or "spoiled," requiring a beating to get them back on track. Their behavior is simply a reflection of what's happening—or isn't happening—in their home. When a child is acting out, you have to ask yourselves: what kind of parents are they? Maybe they are completely inconsistent, totally absent, lacking communication skills, or even abusive. Either way, someone is failing somewhere. Trying to fix parental mistakes by hitting a child is nothing short of pathetic and shameful.

Growing up, my parents never laid a hand on me or used harsh punishments, and I always turned out fine—I never had issues at school or at home.

Kyle Lee7 said:Anger and rage can actually feel much more intense than physical pain.
Personally, I’m against any kind of corporal punishment, and I’ll go as far as saying I’m against punitive discipline in general. In a healthy, functional American household where parents truly understand how to guide their children, there just isn't a need for it.
That being said, it absolutely infuriates me when I see unruly, disrespectful kids acting like little savages. I wouldn't tolerate that behavior, but the thing is, those kids aren't born "bad" or "spoiled," requiring a beating to get them back on track. Their behavior is simply a reflection of what's happening—or isn't happening—in their home. When a child is acting out, you have to ask yourselves: what kind of parents are they? Maybe they are completely inconsistent, totally absent, lacking communication skills, or even abusive. Either way, someone is failing somewhere. Trying to fix parental mistakes by hitting a child is nothing short of pathetic and shameful.

Growing up, my parents never laid a hand on me or used harsh punishments, and I always turned out fine—I never had issues at school or at home.

Goodness, why is this so incredibly simple, yet so few people seem to actually get it!?🤷

Kyle Lee7 said:Anger and rage can actually feel much more intense than physical pain.
Personally, I’m against any kind of corporal punishment, and I’ll go as far as saying I’m against punitive discipline in general. In a healthy, functional American household where parents truly understand how to guide their children, there just isn't a need for it.
That being said, it absolutely infuriates me when I see unruly, disrespectful kids acting like little savages. I wouldn't tolerate that behavior, but the thing is, those kids aren't born "bad" or "spoiled," requiring a beating to get them back on track. Their behavior is simply a reflection of what's happening—or isn't happening—in their home. When a child is acting out, you have to ask yourselves: what kind of parents are they? Maybe they are completely inconsistent, totally absent, lacking communication skills, or even abusive. Either way, someone is failing somewhere. Trying to fix parental mistakes by hitting a child is nothing short of pathetic and shameful.

Growing up, my parents never laid a hand on me or used harsh punishments, and I always turned out fine—I never had issues at school or at home.

No big deal—I grew up in a dysfunctional mess while you had a "normal" upbringing. Feel better now? 😁

What I'm trying to get at is that I know for a fact she messed up because she was inexperienced. She barely ever laid a hand on my brother, who showed up six years later—she was just young and clueless. So what?
Does that make her "abnormal"? Am I abnormal too? Am I out here terrorizing my own kid?

Where is the actual issue here?
🤷

Matthew Morales17 said:Goodness, why is this so incredibly simple, yet so few people seem to actually get it!?🤷

Honestly, I feel like you two are missing the entire point here:
just because our parents laid a hand on us doesn't mean we're all going to turn around and beat our own kids. 🤷

I'm doing just fine, thanks for asking. We’re having a discussion here, and if you happen to interpret that as a personal critique or an attack on you, well, that's really on you, not me.
I honestly have no idea how you were raised, what your life looks like now, or where your issues might stem from—and frankly, I'm not interested in digging into that.
If we're being completely honest, my own family was far from perfect either. My parents definitely had their flaws, but they didn't make one crucial mistake: they never laid a hand on me or used physical punishment, and for that, I am truly grateful.

At the end of the day, nobody is perfect. Maybe one day I'll lose my cool and snap at my own child, but that wouldn't make me an abusive person. My point here is about principles and core values. To actually understand whether an action is right or wrong, you have to break it down and look at the actual causes and effects.

The reality is that children are born good. They aren't inherently bad or "broken" people that need to be fixed. Any developmental psychologist in the US will tell you that almost any problematic behavior in a child is simply a reaction to conflict within the family. Children REACT. As adults, we should know better—we *must* know better. It's much easier to resort to force than to stop and ask, "How did MY actions contribute to this situation?"

Kyle Lee7 said:I'm doing just fine, thanks for asking. We’re having a discussion here, and if you happen to interpret that as a personal critique or an attack on you, well, that's really on you, not me.
I honestly have no idea how you were raised, what your life looks like now, or where your issues might stem from—and frankly, I'm not interested in digging into that.
If we're being completely honest, my own family was far from perfect either. My parents definitely had their flaws, but they didn't make one crucial mistake: they never laid a hand on me or used physical punishment, and for that, I am truly grateful.

At the end of the day, nobody is perfect. Maybe one day I'll lose my cool and snap at my own child, but that wouldn't make me an abusive person. My point here is about principles and core values. To actually understand whether an action is right or wrong, you have to break it down and look at the actual causes and effects.

The reality is that children are born good. They aren't inherently bad or "broken" people that need to be fixed. Any developmental psychologist in the US will tell you that almost any problematic behavior in a child is simply a reaction to conflict within the family. Children REACT. As adults, we should know better—we *must* know better. It's much easier to resort to force than to stop and ask, "How did MY actions contribute to this situation?"

Sorry, but I’m not taking this personally at all. You didn't actually grasp the point; you just got offended.
Quincy:

In a functional household with parents who actually know how to handle kids, there's no need for corporal punishment.

I am basically the walking counter-example to your "unstable" family.
You should really watch your mouth when using the word "abnormal"—I highly doubt you have enough expertise to decide what qualifies as normal and what doesn't.

And yeah, discipline is always necessary. Any decent psychologist will tell you that—but then again, the way you define "discipline" is a whole different story.

Matthew Morales17 said:Goodness, why is this so incredibly simple, yet so few people seem to actually get it!?🤷

Raising kids isn't exactly easy. Honestly, it’s pretty tough and complicated, if you ask me.

Personally, I find myself standing firmly against any form of abuse, and I mean that in its broadest sense—not just physical violence. I am quite certain that psychological manipulation is just as damaging, if not perhaps even more insidious.
It seems to me that a parent, provided they are a reasonably stable and healthy adult, should be perfectly capable of raising a child without resorting to mental or physical cruelty. People tend to turn to these methods because they simply lack better tools, perhaps because they struggle to establish genuine authority, or maybe because they are perpetually stressed or possess such short tempers... there are endless excuses offered, yet in my estimation, none of them are truly valid.
From what I can gather, one ought to focus on building a meaningful relationship with their child rather than, say, leaving them to raise themselves, offering only sporadic conversation, and then reacting with a blow or a scream when the child fails to comply or develops socially unacceptable behaviors. A bond is something cultivated over time, and I believe it really ought to be rooted in authority rather than abuse.
I noticed the individual who opened this thread mentioned how we project our treatment of pets based on what we learned from our own parents (it's much the same with children, though since I don't have kids of my own, I will use my own experience as an example).

To offer a brief illustration... I was hit quite frequently as a young girl, and not always for anything significant. Unfortunately, my parents never really worked to build an honest connection with my sister and me; instead, whenever I displayed any form of disobedience or unwanted behavior, there would be a beating. At the time, I foolishly believed it was acceptable and thought it hadn't left a mark on me.
I am not a mother, but I do have two dogs that I love as if they were my own children. And I suppose you can imagine that when it came time for me to discipline them—particularly my older dog—there were moments where I found myself acting IDENTICALLY to how my parents acted toward me, without even realizing it. When she wouldn't follow a command after I had shown her, or refused to listen during training, I would end up swatting her or yelling so harshly that she would cower in fear.
I thank God that one day I finally stopped and told myself that this was not normal. I realized that my parents had indeed left deep scars on me, and that I was beginning to mirror their exact patterns. However, I haven't been that way for years now... and I know for certain that I will never raise a hand to my dogs, nor to any children I might have in the future.
In my view, it is vital for a parent to demonstrate how to resolve conflicts through healthy, constructive means, ensuring that a strike or psychological torment is never the response. When that isn't modeled for you, as was the case with me, you unfortunately have to learn those lessons on your own—though, I suppose, it is possible to learn. We don't necessarily have to end up just like them.
Please forgive the length of this post; I merely wanted to use my own history to briefly explain why I am so resolutely opposed to the physical punishment of children.

Kyle Lee7 said:I'm doing just fine, thanks for asking. We’re having a discussion here, and if you happen to interpret that as a personal critique or an attack on you, well, that's really on you, not me.
I honestly have no idea how you were raised, what your life looks like now, or where your issues might stem from—and frankly, I'm not interested in digging into that.
If we're being completely honest, my own family was far from perfect either. My parents definitely had their flaws, but they didn't make one crucial mistake: they never laid a hand on me or used physical punishment, and for that, I am truly grateful.

At the end of the day, nobody is perfect. Maybe one day I'll lose my cool and snap at my own child, but that wouldn't make me an abusive person. My point here is about principles and core values. To actually understand whether an action is right or wrong, you have to break it down and look at the actual causes and effects.

The reality is that children are born good. They aren't inherently bad or "broken" people that need to be fixed. Any developmental psychologist in the US will tell you that almost any problematic behavior in a child is simply a reaction to conflict within the family. Children REACT. As adults, we should know better—we *must* know better. It's much easier to resort to force than to stop and ask, "How did MY actions contribute to this situation?"

Please explain to me how someone can say, "How am I responsible for this situation?" when the kid is still in a non-verbal phase and has no concept of danger.
You're talking about kids with "unacceptable behavior"—so what, if a toddler sets the house on fire, the parents are just supposed to sit there and wonder why a little kid was being curious?
We're all different, and our parents were different too. Some were big on talking things out, others weren't. There isn't some perfect manual for parenting, and there's no such thing as an "ideal parent." That should be obvious to everyone.
What matters is that parents love their kids. It's like what Cyrulnik wrote in one of his books—a child won't be traumatized by a foster mother who hits them because they can't stay mad at a rock when they trip over it (to the kid, that woman is just a static object, like a stone). But they *will* be traumatized by a foster parent they actually loved and trusted, only to have that person crush them with a single sentence. That stays with you forever.

My point is that upbringing is incredibly complex. Using a belt or a timeout because a kid accidentally burned down the house means something completely different in a home filled with love versus a home where the parent is acting out of pure resentment and physical punishment becomes an outlet for hate.

Kyle Lee7 said:Anger and rage can actually feel much more intense than physical pain.
Personally, I’m against any kind of corporal punishment, and I’ll go as far as saying I’m against punitive discipline in general. In a healthy, functional American household where parents truly understand how to guide their children, there just isn't a need for it.
That being said, it absolutely infuriates me when I see unruly, disrespectful kids acting like little savages. I wouldn't tolerate that behavior, but the thing is, those kids aren't born "bad" or "spoiled," requiring a beating to get them back on track. Their behavior is simply a reflection of what's happening—or isn't happening—in their home. When a child is acting out, you have to ask yourselves: what kind of parents are they? Maybe they are completely inconsistent, totally absent, lacking communication skills, or even abusive. Either way, someone is failing somewhere. Trying to fix parental mistakes by hitting a child is nothing short of pathetic and shameful.

Growing up, my parents never laid a hand on me or used harsh punishments, and I always turned out fine—I never had issues at school or at home.

That’s spot on. It’s the easy way out—you use punishment because, as a parent, you hold all the power and strength.
I can't even remember the last time I actually punished my son. Sure, it's happened, but it's probably been at least six months, maybe longer. It's not like I have a little angel living here; he tries to push my buttons constantly and he's always running wild. It's just that I handle things the same way I'd talk through stuff with a friend. And honestly? It works like a charm.

Noah Myers8 said:That’s spot on. It’s the easy way out—you use punishment because, as a parent, you hold all the power and strength.
I can't even remember the last time I actually punished my son. Sure, it's happened, but it's probably been at least six months, maybe longer. It's not like I have a little angel living here; he tries to push my buttons constantly and he's always running wild. It's just that I handle things the same way I'd talk through stuff with a friend. And honestly? It works like a charm.

Look, I approach it like I'm the older sister in the situation—and honestly? It works just as well.☕

Dana Hill73 said:Look, I approach it like I'm the older sister in the situation—and honestly? It works just as well.☕

A fine? Seriously?🙂