Did the brawl in paradise actually happen?

John Parker5 said:Ladies, look at it this way: imagine if your husband or boyfriend laid a hand on you every single time you lied about being at work when you actually spent those six or seven hours grabbing coffee with a friend. Or guys, picture your wife losing her cool and hitting you because you were busy grilling fish and accidentally torched her favorite rosebush in the yard. Do you think you’d deserve a physical hit, or just a really intense, heated argument? Now, take all that and imagine how a child feels when they get struck by the one person they love more than anything in the world...
p.s. I know these examples are pretty basic, but honestly, nothing else popped into my head right then. 😁

You can't compare children to adults—to fully formed individuals and personalities. And let’s not go to extremes here. No one is suggesting kids should be beaten for every little thing... here is another example: the last time I got hit with a belt was when my old man caught me stealing cigarettes again after several warnings and punishments 😁 back when I was in second or third grade... well, after that belt, I didn't touch a cigarette 🤣 for about ten years.

Judging by my nephew... he certainly knew how to be disobedient.
Do this and that... I won't.
Fine... I won't, I won't, and I won't... then my sister or brother-in-law would grab a wooden spoon and give me a few swats on the backside... after that, there was no need for actual hitting; they would just pull out the spoon 😁 whenever I acted up, and you'd see how quickly I'd behave.

John Parker5 said:Look, parents these days are way too soft on their kids. Most of them are so slammed with work they don't have the patience for deep, meaningful conversations, so they just resort to a quick swat to get things under control—it’s like a shortcut to peace and quiet. In my opinion, kids today are definitely worse than previous generations, but you can't blame that on a lack of discipline. No, blame it on the parents who say stuff like, "Leave me alone, I'm busy," or "Just watch cartoons, I don't have time to play right now." So, what happens? Kids start acting out in every way possible, whether they realize it or not, just to get some attention from their parents.

Furthermore, our modern lifestyle demands that we earn well, look good, and maintain nice cars and houses—all of which is quite expensive. To keep up with these societal expectations, both spouses usually have to work, often pulling overtime, while children end up being left with various unskilled babysitters. By the time parents get home, they are completely exhausted and just want to sit in front of the TV to numb their brains from the day's stress. It's the typical experience for a working-class American family.
I don't mean to offend anyone; I imagine that one day when I have my own children, my daily life will likely follow a similar pattern, and I'll find myself having to steal moments from work or sleep just to spend time with them.
As for corporal punishment, I think people sometimes overthink the issue—I don't recall being hit hard as a child, but I do remember my parents giving me a tug on the ear or a little smack on the fingers. Of course, it wasn't meant to cause pain, just enough to make me feel a bit uncomfortable.
Does that count as abuse?

silentpilot6 said:Honestly, you’d basically be burning his favorite teddy bear right in front of him... I swear, that's easily five hundred times more cruel than just a little discipline with a belt. 😁
Professional counseling... it seems to be the big trend lately. I suppose all those high-priced psychologists and psychiatrists have to make a living somehow 😉... but professional help versus a few swats on the backside? I'm picking the latter. 😁

You mentioned yourself that your father is a psychiatrist, yet here you are spending so much time on this forum campaigning AGAINST professional help—doesn't that strike you as a bit ironic? Maybe it’s worth having a real conversation with your dad, or perhaps you just need to work through this delayed rebellion against parental authority once and for all.

🤣 😂
I think you're missing the mark here... my dad always says (and if anyone truly understands the situation, it’s probably him 😁) that people have started doing just about anything these days—whether it's necessary or not—including seeking out psychiatrists. I mean, I get it, doctors find it perfectly fine 😉, but we are clearly trending toward those overly sensitive 😁 Americans who seem to have a therapist for everything, often just because they need someone to talk to...

silentpilot6 said:You can't compare children to adults—to fully formed individuals and personalities. And let’s not go to extremes here. No one is suggesting kids should be beaten for every little thing... here is another example: the last time I got hit with a belt was when my old man caught me stealing cigarettes again after several warnings and punishments 😁 back when I was in second or third grade... well, after that belt, I didn't touch a cigarette 🤣 for about ten years.

Judging by my nephew... he certainly knew how to be disobedient.
Do this and that... I won't.
Fine... I won't, I won't, and I won't... then my sister or brother-in-law would grab a wooden spoon and give me a few swats on the backside... after that, there was no need for actual hitting; they would just pull out the spoon 😁 whenever I acted up, and you'd see how quickly I'd behave.

This logic implies that children are inherently broken or bad. Parents really ought to take a step back and reflect on how they raised their child and treated them before they were labeled as "bad." The exact moment you feel forced to strike a "naughty" child is the moment you, as an adult who is supposed to be wiser and more capable, prove that you've failed to guide them, leaving nothing but physical size and strength as your only remaining argument.
Pathetic.

silentpilot6 said:🤣 😂
I think you're missing the mark here... my dad always says (and if anyone truly understands the situation, it’s probably him 😁) that people have started doing just about anything these days—whether it's necessary or not—including seeking out psychiatrists. I mean, I get it, doctors find it perfectly fine 😉, but we are clearly trending toward those overly sensitive 😁 Americans who seem to have a therapist for everything, often just because they need someone to talk to...

Look, you can throw ten laughing emojis at this if you want...
But what you’re saying really speaks for itself, whether you want to admit it or not.

Let's just agree that your dad is some kind of ultimate expert who raised such a "wonderful" guy (just look at the profile picture).
We should also probably agree that violence only breeds more violence. Which seems pretty obvious from what's being shown here.

Kyle Lee7 said:Look, you can throw ten laughing emojis at this if you want...
But what you’re saying really speaks for itself, whether you want to admit it or not.

Let's just agree that your dad is some kind of ultimate expert who raised such a "wonderful" guy (just look at the profile picture).
We should also probably agree that violence only breeds more violence. Which seems pretty obvious from what's being shown here.

Is this how you usually react when someone doesn't see eye to eye with you? Because honestly, your comments say much more about you than they do about anyone else.
I agree that violence breeds violence, but you clearly aren't distinguishing between actual abuse and a "disciplinary measure"—if we have to call it that—like a quick swat when a child does something wrong. No matter how old a kid gets, they're still a child, and most of the time, they don't fully grasp the consequences of their actions.
And those comparisons, like "if you hit a kid for doing something wrong, then a husband should hit his wife for doing something wrong," are just ridiculous and unnecessary.
We aren't talking about beating a child just because a parent is having a meltdown.
I once saw a mother hitting a toddler on the butt—just straight up hitting her—simply because the little girl was crying and wouldn't get on a city bus. If I could, I would have thrown that woman under the bus myself. So, I am absolutely not justifying that—how can anyone justify hitting a child just because they're crying!?
But... if I have to tell a child a thousand times not to do something, I just can't. A colleague of mine kept telling her little one over and over not to go near the stove or the equipment in their bakery. Yet, the kid caught a moment of distraction and stuck their hand right into the ice cream machine.

So, the little guy caught a split second of distraction and ended up shoving his hand right into the ice cream machine.

You know, it’s funny... when parents are constantly barking "don't do this" and "don't touch that" all day long, kids just tune it out. It's basically white noise at that point. Instead of just repeating the word "no" over and over, she could have actually sat him down and explained the actual consequences of sticking a hand in there—you know, without that frantic, impatient tone people get when they aren't being heard the first time. But hey, explaining things takes time, and I guess everyone's always in a rush, right?
Besides, why is a kid even hanging around near industrial ovens and heavy machinery anyway? Isn't it on the parents to keep them away from the serious hazards? I'm not saying you have to watch them every single second for every little thing, but come on. Couldn't she have found a sitter or someone to keep an eye on him while she was focused on her job?

You're dodging the point. We don't need to debate how much free time people actually have; besides, you'd never dream of judging someone for being preoccupied with work 🙄
What I'm getting at is that my little one definitely learned his lesson about staying away from there. Why do you think that is? Honestly, when I was a kid, I used to hang around the oven way too much. No amount of scary stories or warnings about the pain would stop me—believe me, if anyone had patience, it was my mom. But once I finally touched that hot stove and felt the actual sting she’d warned me about, that was it. I wasn't going anywhere near the stove again.

Ryan Morris15 said:Furthermore, our modern lifestyle demands that we earn well, look good, and maintain nice cars and houses—all of which is quite expensive. To keep up with these societal expectations, both spouses usually have to work, often pulling overtime, while children end up being left with various unskilled babysitters. By the time parents get home, they are completely exhausted and just want to sit in front of the TV to numb their brains from the day's stress. It's the typical experience for a working-class American family.
I don't mean to offend anyone; I imagine that one day when I have my own children, my daily life will likely follow a similar pattern, and I'll find myself having to steal moments from work or sleep just to spend time with them.
As for corporal punishment, I think people sometimes overthink the issue—I don't recall being hit hard as a child, but I do remember my parents giving me a tug on the ear or a little smack on the fingers. Of course, it wasn't meant to cause pain, just enough to make me feel a bit uncomfortable.
Does that count as abuse?

Look, you might not "remember" it, but there’s always someone else who remembers it perfectly fine—someone who isn't wrong. And trust me, that stuff sticks and messes with your life.
And then one day, when you have kids of your own, you’re gonna realize how often you reach for that exact same solution, thinking it’s a conscious choice, but it’s not—it’s just the software that was hardwired into you.
Solving a problem with a hit is easy, fast, and efficient, right? Plus, the fallout is "invisible."
Seriously, what is wrong with people? Is there actually a single psychologist working today who thinks physical punishment is an okay parenting tool????

John Parker5 said:Ladies, look at it this way: imagine if your husband or boyfriend laid a hand on you every single time you lied about being at work when you actually spent those six or seven hours grabbing coffee with a friend. Or guys, picture your wife losing her cool and hitting you because you were busy grilling fish and accidentally torched her favorite rosebush in the yard. Do you think you’d deserve a physical hit, or just a really intense, heated argument? Now, take all that and imagine how a child feels when they get struck by the one person they love more than anything in the world...
p.s. I know these examples are pretty basic, but honestly, nothing else popped into my head right then. 😁

I think this is a really powerful point, but can we look closer? If someone hits me, I can usually point to a reason, right? Maybe I burnt the steak, or maybe I was just a bit rude to my wife (ha!), or perhaps she’s having a rough day at work and takes it out on me. For an adult, there are always these "excuses" or mitigating circumstances to wrap our heads around. But when parents hit a child? There aren't any excuses or easy ways to justify it; it's just pure, heavy hardship! A kid doesn't even truly understand what they did wrong, and the absolute worst part is the realization that they're being struck by their own parents! At that age—and for many people throughout their entire lives, unfortunately, since some folks stay immature forever—parents are basically GODS to a child! I have never once laid a hand on my daughter, and looking around at the world today, I am so incredibly proud of that! 👍

silentpilot6 said:If a kid tried to light a fire on the balcony and ended up setting the shutters ablaze, and you barely managed to stop the whole house from going up in flames, what would you have done?
I would have sat him down and said, "Look at what you've done, you little troublemaker..." Well, because I did that, I ended up getting a beating and learned some hard lessons. That was that. 😁

On the surface—and let's be honest, most people look at everything in life this way, all shallow and superficial—that might seem true. But if you really stop to think about it, how does it work? If a tiny little kid somehow gets their hands on a box of matches or a lighter—are the parents to blame for that?! And even if they do have matches, if a child that age isn't being supervised—are the parents to blame for that too?! Or if they hadn't been properly taught and shown what fire actually is—again, blame the parents?! I truly believe that when a child pulls off a major disaster (because small mistakes are just part of being a kid, right?), especially if it happens more than once, the parents should basically be giving themselves a lecture! Because at the end of the day, it really is their responsibility!👍

Hannah White2

I wouldn't say I was actually beaten; if they pulled my ear at all, it certainly wasn't some violent twisting or tugging. I suppose I know what real abuse looks like, having had a friend who was too mortified to even wear shorts at gym class. So, if we're asking whether both of those instances count as violence or abuse, I probably wouldn't say so.

I don't think you need to lecture me on parental influence, behavioral imitation, or upbringing, as I imagine I have a decent enough grasp on those matters.

Kyle Lee7 said:Look, you can throw ten laughing emojis at this if you want...
But what you’re saying really speaks for itself, whether you want to admit it or not.

Let's just agree that your dad is some kind of ultimate expert who raised such a "wonderful" guy (just look at the profile picture).
We should also probably agree that violence only breeds more violence. Which seems pretty obvious from what's being shown here.

It's obvious that something I wrote really struck a nerve, since you've been "harassing" me 🤣 from thread to thread, and nothing I say is ever good enough for you... Fine. As others have kindly pointed out, the way you respond says everything about your own character 😉... you're being quite aggressive 😛
And no matter what I say, someone is always there to twist my words.
I see some people need to go back to kindergarten... so let's walk through this.
So, I say that one shouldn't seek therapy for every little thing. Okay. You claim that's just my delayed rebellion against my father's authority—since he happens to be a psychiatrist and more of an expert in this field than both of us combined. But no... you keep lecturing me on parenting, even going so far as to bring up my avatar 🤣 and making jokes about how violence breeds violence. Sure, I guess I am a violent guy 🙂 clearly.
Find something else to do instead of hunting me down with these ridiculous arguments. It's honestly laughable. Just chill out... or better yet, find some therapy for yourself—it seems like you actually need it. 😛

On this forum in general, and especially in the psychology section, there is no middle ground; everything is viewed in extremes of black and white.
That’s why we have a group here where you simply can't explain certain nuances to anyone. For instance, if you mention that experiencing physical discipline three times in a lifetime can leave lasting scars on a child 🤣... people immediately jump to calling Child Protective Services to have those parents stripped of their rights and the kids sent to foster care.

Honestly, you wouldn't believe some of the nonsense being typed out here. It’s just a chaotic mess of people talking without a lick of sense. First off, the sheer amount of weirdness coming from people—and yeah, I'm talking about kids too. Look, I’ve been working with children for 20 years now, and I’m a mother of two boys myself. My oldest? He never once had to deal with a smack, a tug on the ear, or even a hair pull. There was just never a need for it. We talked through everything from the time he could barely walk, and even now at 11, we still handle things by finding the right way to explain things for his age. My other son, though... well, he took a spanking more times than I can count. It was the only language that actually registered with him, until he hit about 13 or 14. That’s when he finally started listening to reason and taking criticism when it mattered. In my professional career, I’ve never laid a hand on a kid because, obviously, that’s against the rules. But I'll be real with you—I’ve definitely felt the urge. Again, I’m saying we’re all different. Violence breeds violence, sure, but there’s a nuance here: giving a child a quick swat isn't the same thing as abuse. And if we're being honest, psychological abuse is a thousand times worse. People could write books about this, but let's be clear: someone who hasn't raised their own kids has absolutely no business drawing conclusions. You see so many people acting like crusaders against "violence," but then they go home and beat their own kids senseless. Never say never, because life has a funny way of throwing things at you that you never saw coming.

Roger Rodriguez said:Is this how you usually react when someone doesn't see eye to eye with you? Because honestly, your comments say much more about you than they do about anyone else.
I agree that violence breeds violence, but you clearly aren't distinguishing between actual abuse and a "disciplinary measure"—if we have to call it that—like a quick swat when a child does something wrong. No matter how old a kid gets, they're still a child, and most of the time, they don't fully grasp the consequences of their actions.
And those comparisons, like "if you hit a kid for doing something wrong, then a husband should hit his wife for doing something wrong," are just ridiculous and unnecessary.
We aren't talking about beating a child just because a parent is having a meltdown.
I once saw a mother hitting a toddler on the butt—just straight up hitting her—simply because the little girl was crying and wouldn't get on a city bus. If I could, I would have thrown that woman under the bus myself. So, I am absolutely not justifying that—how can anyone justify hitting a child just because they're crying!?
But... if I have to tell a child a thousand times not to do something, I just can't. A colleague of mine kept telling her little one over and over not to go near the stove or the equipment in their bakery. Yet, the kid caught a moment of distraction and stuck their hand right into the ice cream machine.

That's exactly my point.
I am absolutely against any kind of violence toward children. Period. But a child needs to recognize some level of authority in their life. I'm not advocating for a reign of terror, obviously, but parents have to come up with some method for disciplining a disobedient child.

In my house, pleas, persuasion, or "you're grounded" didn't work. Not with me. I was stubborn to a fault—it's just how I was built. I wasn't afraid of anything or anyone, except maybe my mother, who eventually had to get tough just to tame me somehow. She never reached for a belt right away. First, she’d launch this massive barrage of arguments and explanations—like, "if you do this, then this happens, you'll get hurt, and then you'll have to go to the doctor and get a painful shot"—then came the consequences like, "you aren't getting this treat," or "no playing outside because you were bad," or "no cartoons." Only when nothing else worked would she actually hit me.

Like I said, she hit me maybe three or four times in my entire life, but every single time, it was more than earned. I was a wicked child. Don't try to tell me kids don't know what they're doing. I knew exactly what I was doing.

Oh, and I nearly forgot this part.

There is a massive difference between psychological or verbal abuse—we're talking about the daily grind of crushing a child's spirit, systematically dismantling their sense of self and integrity—and just offering some justified criticism when they actually mess up. You know, using critique as a legitimate tool for guidance.

It’s the same deal with physical stuff. There is a world of difference between outright physical abuse—beating a kid just to vent or to break their will—and using corporal punishment as a last resort when nothing else seems to work.

In both cases of true abuse, you end up with traumatized children who never felt truly loved by their parents. But in the second scenario—with occasional criticism or discipline—if the child still feels that underlying parental love even after being corrected, there isn't any chance of them becoming traumatized.

Look, I know up until now I’ve mostly just been vocal about being against physical discipline, but let me give you a real-world example involving my own kid... because don't go thinking she was some perfect little angel. When she was about two and a half or three, she had this nasty little habit of occasionally swatting her grandma whenever she was told "no." And believe me, she never, ever laid a hand on anyone else—at least not in our house. My mother-in-law actually thought it was funny! She’d just laugh it off, while I was sitting there absolutely losing my mind. Now, I get it—some parents, after giving a million verbal warnings that just aren't working, might feel tempted to swing back just to show them how it feels. But here’s what I did: I sat my mother-in-law down and told her straight up that it wasn't okay to laugh at it, and that she needed to be the one to firmly tell the kid to stop—even if she had to say it twenty times in a row. She didn't exactly love being lectured by her daughter-in-law, but honestly? It worked. Between my persistence and hers, the child eventually just stopped doing it. All I'm saying is that you need an insane amount of patience—not just with the kids, but with everyone involved in raising them.

silentpilot6 said:🤣 😂
I think you're missing the mark here... my dad always says (and if anyone truly understands the situation, it’s probably him 😁) that people have started doing just about anything these days—whether it's necessary or not—including seeking out psychiatrists. I mean, I get it, doctors find it perfectly fine 😉, but we are clearly trending toward those overly sensitive 😁 Americans who seem to have a therapist for everything, often just because they need someone to talk to...

Probably just projecting his beef with authority... probably some childhood trauma involving a belt and a strict preacher.😍