Did the brawl in paradise actually happen?

Look, it’s not as simple as everyone makes it out to be—most of us were basically raised with those aggressive, old-school discipline methods baked right into our subconscious as the go-to fix for everything. It feels easy, it feels straightforward, and honestly? It feels like there aren't any lasting consequences.
I also reckon parents should probably steer clear of caffeine—it just cranks up your impatience, which basically turns you into a ticking time bomb for those reactive, conditioned outbursts.
You really need to dive into some actual literature; Jasper July is solid reading if you want to get real.
Raising a kid is arguably the biggest responsibility one can take on for the sake of the world—there isn't any other achievement you can measure against it.
I mean, what's the point of discovering atomic energy if it ends up in the hands of unstable people? You end up with thousands suffering in the end, and for fifty years now, we've been staring down the barrel of total global annihilation...
We throw money at building bridges, but we should be making sure moms get a three-year average salary guarantee and mandatory sessions with child psychologists—like, a required course you have to pass to qualify for maternity benefits.
What difference does it make if you shave two hours off your drive to Venice when thousands of people could be suffering because of poor—or just straight-up inadequate—parenting?

It’s honestly amusing when people attack you just for starting a discussion. It feels like they're implying that because you're bringing up a topic 25 years later, it must have left some deep, lasting scar on you. 🤣
If I start a thread to open the topic of pedophilia... does that make me one? If I start a thread about the German military in WW2, am I suddenly a Nazi? Or if I discuss old political figures from the past, am I labeled a radical? 🤣... and so on, it goes. It's absurd.

Some people just refuse to grasp that we aren't all cut from the same cloth. You can't solve every single issue through dialogue, setting examples, or bans. To be honest, I find it interesting when this thread is filled with people who don't even have children—and look, I don't have any either, but still 😁—or those who say they never want kids yet feel entitled to weigh in here. I truly wonder what all these "I don't have kids, but I'd never lay a hand on my own child" types will do when their little ones actually act out. After twenty-five explanations and clarifications, will they try a twenty-sixth explanation, or will they finally reach for a belt?

On the other hand, kids used to get disciplined physically all the time, and I certainly didn't notice the "older generations" turning into psychopaths, abusers, or broken individuals... at least not any more than today's youth.
From what I hear from educators—I know a few teachers—and parents of the current generation, things seem much worse now. Why is that? 🤷Whether physical discipline or the lack thereof played a role, I think it would be worth conducting some actual research to see which group is "worse"... the kids who occasionally face a belt, or those who are raised entirely by other methods regardless of how they behave.

silentpilot6 said:It’s honestly amusing when people attack you just for starting a discussion. It feels like they're implying that because you're bringing up a topic 25 years later, it must have left some deep, lasting scar on you. 🤣
If I start a thread to open the topic of pedophilia... does that make me one? If I start a thread about the German military in WW2, am I suddenly a Nazi? Or if I discuss old political figures from the past, am I labeled a radical? 🤣... and so on, it goes. It's absurd.

Some people just refuse to grasp that we aren't all cut from the same cloth. You can't solve every single issue through dialogue, setting examples, or bans. To be honest, I find it interesting when this thread is filled with people who don't even have children—and look, I don't have any either, but still 😁—or those who say they never want kids yet feel entitled to weigh in here. I truly wonder what all these "I don't have kids, but I'd never lay a hand on my own child" types will do when their little ones actually act out. After twenty-five explanations and clarifications, will they try a twenty-sixth explanation, or will they finally reach for a belt?

On the other hand, kids used to get disciplined physically all the time, and I certainly didn't notice the "older generations" turning into psychopaths, abusers, or broken individuals... at least not any more than today's youth.
From what I hear from educators—I know a few teachers—and parents of the current generation, things seem much worse now. Why is that? 🤷Whether physical discipline or the lack thereof played a role, I think it would be worth conducting some actual research to see which group is "worse"... the kids who occasionally face a belt, or those who are raised entirely by other methods regardless of how they behave.

What does whether or not I have children have to do with anything? It means I know how I’ll behave. From what I've noticed, you seem perfectly fine with hitting a woman in certain situations (apologies if I've mistaken you for someone else, but I'm fairly certain you were the one posting about that), etc. It turns out violent people are just violent toward everyone—their partners, animals, and eventually, their children.
I have never laid a hand on anyone, no matter how much they've infuriated me, and I am certain I will never hit a child either. 🙄

You're right, it’s not exactly a walk in the park. That's why you have to make a rock-solid decision—if you slip up, you can't just spiral into a depression and throw in the towel. You’ve gotta keep swinging.

Society is basically undergoing this massive overhaul right now. Unlike back in the day, both parents are out working full-time shifts, and kids spend most of their lives being passed around between daycare workers who eventually just burn out. Then, the parents themselves are exhausted from grinding away at jobs they absolutely hate, so when they finally crawl home to their kids, they're just looking out for their own sanity. That’s what’s driving everything we see today—it isn't some lack of physical punishment.

I mean, even those parents who actually try to break the cycle of generational violence—they still crack sometimes. They end up oscillating wildly between extremes because they're just stretched too thin...

I’m sorry, but you’re just making things up now to score points. Give me a link to any post where I actually said it was okay to hit a girl, and then immediately take me out to dinner at the most expensive restaurant you know. That was a really low blow on your part.

Oh, so now anyone who occasionally pulls a kid's hair or gives them a little swat with a wooden spoon is labeled a monster who beats women and animals? Your logic is truly something else.

And what does whether or not you have children have to do with this? Maybe one day you'll remind me 😉... Everyone loves to talk about these perfect scenarios where their future little angel messes up, and they instantly repent after a quick explanation, realizing their mistake and saying, "Mommy, I'll never do it again." Well, I’d love to be there one day when reality hits and things aren't nearly as easy as you've described. Then we'll see 😉

Have you ever heard the saying, "Never say never"? 😉

Hannah White2 said:You're right, it’s not exactly a walk in the park. That's why you have to make a rock-solid decision—if you slip up, you can't just spiral into a depression and throw in the towel. You’ve gotta keep swinging.

Society is basically undergoing this massive overhaul right now. Unlike back in the day, both parents are out working full-time shifts, and kids spend most of their lives being passed around between daycare workers who eventually just burn out. Then, the parents themselves are exhausted from grinding away at jobs they absolutely hate, so when they finally crawl home to their kids, they're just looking out for their own sanity. That’s what’s driving everything we see today—it isn't some lack of physical punishment.

I mean, even those parents who actually try to break the cycle of generational violence—they still crack sometimes. They end up oscillating wildly between extremes because they're just stretched too thin...

This debate is ultimately futile because both sides are so deeply entrenched in their views that neither will budge. For some, discipline might mean physical punishment, whereas for me, it's often the most effective way to teach a lesson.

Amanda Myers3 said:What does whether or not I have children have to do with anything? It means I know how I’ll behave. From what I've noticed, you seem perfectly fine with hitting a woman in certain situations (apologies if I've mistaken you for someone else, but I'm fairly certain you were the one posting about that), etc. It turns out violent people are just violent toward everyone—their partners, animals, and eventually, their children.
I have never laid a hand on anyone, no matter how much they've infuriated me, and I am certain I will never hit a child either. 🙄

😍

I just love these "future parents."

My own mother used to say the exact same thing right before she had me: never, seriously, never would I lay a hand on my little baby! I'd sooner cut off my own arm!

And then she got stuck with me. 🤣

silentpilot6 said:It’s honestly amusing when people attack you just for starting a discussion. It feels like they're implying that because you're bringing up a topic 25 years later, it must have left some deep, lasting scar on you. 🤣
If I start a thread to open the topic of pedophilia... does that make me one? If I start a thread about the German military in WW2, am I suddenly a Nazi? Or if I discuss old political figures from the past, am I labeled a radical? 🤣... and so on, it goes. It's absurd.

Some people just refuse to grasp that we aren't all cut from the same cloth. You can't solve every single issue through dialogue, setting examples, or bans. To be honest, I find it interesting when this thread is filled with people who don't even have children—and look, I don't have any either, but still 😁—or those who say they never want kids yet feel entitled to weigh in here. I truly wonder what all these "I don't have kids, but I'd never lay a hand on my own child" types will do when their little ones actually act out. After twenty-five explanations and clarifications, will they try a twenty-sixth explanation, or will they finally reach for a belt?

On the other hand, kids used to get disciplined physically all the time, and I certainly didn't notice the "older generations" turning into psychopaths, abusers, or broken individuals... at least not any more than today's youth.
From what I hear from educators—I know a few teachers—and parents of the current generation, things seem much worse now. Why is that? 🤷Whether physical discipline or the lack thereof played a role, I think it would be worth conducting some actual research to see which group is "worse"... the kids who occasionally face a belt, or those who are raised entirely by other methods regardless of how they behave.

Believe me, you can solve almost anything with communication—I've done it myself, and I'm still doing it! Just the other day, I was getting hammered (online shopping, obviously!), and I defended my position quite effectively. But I really have to wonder, how long can this go on?
Of course, when it comes to topics like this, the people who should really be leading the conversation are those who actually have children. I'm always a little skeptical when it comes to taking advice on sex from the Pope, right?!
As for today's youth, I personally feel they are much better off than we were or any of the older generations. 👍

Morgan Cooper34 said:😍

I just love these "future parents."

My own mother used to say the exact same thing right before she had me: never, seriously, never would I lay a hand on my little baby! I'd sooner cut off my own arm!

And then she got stuck with me. 🤣

Oh, absolutely, it is just wonderful how people act when they have a toddler or a little two-year-old running around! They're such perfect little angels, right? Everyone just loves them and adores them through age sixteen, filled with all these sweet declarations of love and pure joy! But then, what happens when those kids hit ten or twelve? That's when the real chaos starts for parents! Once they actually start thinking for themselves and discovering who they are—hello, puberty!—suddenly the kid starts trying to unseat Mom or Dad from their pedestal. And suddenly, Mom is no longer the queen of the house, and the child is labeled as some "ungrateful brat" who totally deserves to be punished because they aren't being "good" anymore. Isn't it funny how the less qualified a parent is, the bigger that ego gap becomes?☕

I don't have kids myself, but I spent some time living under the same roof as my sister, her husband, and their little boy. He wasn't a bad kid by nature, but he certainly had his moments where he’d act out just to see how far he could push his parents' boundaries... refusing to listen or stop what he was doing no matter what. To be honest, a quick swat was sometimes the only thing that worked, even though they tried everything else first. I’m just saying you really have to experience it before you can claim to know the answer.
I'm not suggesting that there aren't parents out there who have never laid a hand on their child... but it feels a bit naive when people without children weigh in on what kids are actually capable of 😁. Similarly, you might have a "golden child" who is an absolute saint and never does anything to warrant discipline 😁, whereas other parents might think they have an angel, only to find out they're dealing with a little terror...

silentpilot6 said:This debate is ultimately futile because both sides are so deeply entrenched in their views that neither will budge. For some, discipline might mean physical punishment, whereas for me, it's often the most effective way to teach a lesson.

Look, do yourself a favor and pick up some actual books. It doesn't really matter what my two cents are; what matters is what the experts—the people who actually spent their entire lives studying child psychology—have to say.
If you take a step back and actually dig into how human psychology works and why we struggle with certain things, it might actually shift your perspective.
Because, let’s be real, that rigid mindset you’re clinging to is basically the blueprint for everything from organized religion to modern dictatorships. It’s built on the idea that the public is just a bunch of mindless infants who need to be "disciplined" into submission. Even guys like Harmon operated under that exact kind of paternalistic logic.
I’m speaking from experience here. I’m not even expecting you to flip your worldview overnight, but at least do some homework before you go deciding how to raise a kid.
Besides, there's a 90% chance you aren't going to go around swinging a belt at your own kids just because that's how your old man handled things.

silentpilot6 said:I don't have kids myself, but I spent some time living under the same roof as my sister, her husband, and their little boy. He wasn't a bad kid by nature, but he certainly had his moments where he’d act out just to see how far he could push his parents' boundaries... refusing to listen or stop what he was doing no matter what. To be honest, a quick swat was sometimes the only thing that worked, even though they tried everything else first. I’m just saying you really have to experience it before you can claim to know the answer.
I'm not suggesting that there aren't parents out there who have never laid a hand on their child... but it feels a bit naive when people without children weigh in on what kids are actually capable of 😁. Similarly, you might have a "golden child" who is an absolute saint and never does anything to warrant discipline 😁, whereas other parents might think they have an angel, only to find out they're dealing with a little terror...

How is a kid supposed to figure out who they actually are if they never get the chance to say "no"?

It’s not a belt for the kids, it’s one for the wife. ☕

I was hit with a belt maybe three or four times growing up, usually when I was doing something truly terrible. 😁 We eventually ended up with a dictatorship, heavy religious influence, Bush 😂 and a nation that’s just foolish and immature... honestly, it’s been everything.
How is a parent supposed to establish necessary authority if they can't find a way to compel a child toward certain behaviors? If no other methods work at all, what then? Do you just let them do whatever they want, or drag them to a therapist?
Look, time and time again... we don't live in an ideal world where every kid is good and where talking things out or setting boundaries always works. Some parents might not even know how to communicate or explain things... what are we supposed to do with them? Should they just give in and let a child do whatever pops into their head because modern child psychology is offended by any kind of physical discipline?

I'm not implying—and I know you'll jump on me for this, so I'll say it first—that every parent who occasionally uses physical discipline lacks other options. But what if there aren't any other ways? What if you have a little brat who is just incredibly defiant and arrogant? What then? Are you supposed to buy 23 different books and hunt through them for answers you might never actually find?

To go back to my dog, I tried training him using those "modern methods," and it failed miserably. After I disciplined him a few times with a rolled-up newspaper and made sure he understood the consequences, he stopped peeing in the house. Now... maybe I'm wrong, maybe I did something incorrectly, or maybe some dogs are just built in a way where nothing else "clicks." With all due respect, why can't people accept that there are certain children who simply won't understand anything else... at least not always, and not in every situation?

Hannah White2 said:Look, do yourself a favor and pick up some actual books. It doesn't really matter what my two cents are; what matters is what the experts—the people who actually spent their entire lives studying child psychology—have to say.
If you take a step back and actually dig into how human psychology works and why we struggle with certain things, it might actually shift your perspective.
Because, let’s be real, that rigid mindset you’re clinging to is basically the blueprint for everything from organized religion to modern dictatorships. It’s built on the idea that the public is just a bunch of mindless infants who need to be "disciplined" into submission. Even guys like Harmon operated under that exact kind of paternalistic logic.
I’m speaking from experience here. I’m not even expecting you to flip your worldview overnight, but at least do some homework before you go deciding how to raise a kid.
Besides, there's a 90% chance you aren't going to go around swinging a belt at your own kids just because that's how your old man handled things.

How is a kid supposed to figure out who they actually are if they never get the chance to say "no"?

I personally think *Primal Scream* by Arthur Janov is one of the best books out there regarding child upbringing, even if it isn't strictly focused on parenting. But honestly? I think we have much bigger problems than just punishing children. We have the issue of unwanted children. Kids born not because parents actually wanted them, but just because they felt it was something they "had" to do.

A few posts ago, you asked: "why are you all so afraid to tear down those perfect images of your parents, the ones who molded you into such good, disciplined little kids through strict, old-school discipline?
Get them off their pedestals."

Look, I don't put my parents on a pedestal, but I am certain they couldn't have been any better.
Despite a few times getting grounded or taking a hit, my parents truly wanted me and loved me. As a kid, I felt that. I could even feel their regret whenever they had to punish me (which usually happened because I was intentionally being difficult and testing every single boundary they set—but that's a whole other story). On the flip side, you'll meet plenty of people who would never lay a finger on their child, yet they've never built a real connection with them either. Why? Because that child wasn't wanted. They weren't loved.

Matthew Morales17 said:Oh, absolutely, it is just wonderful how people act when they have a toddler or a little two-year-old running around! They're such perfect little angels, right? Everyone just loves them and adores them through age sixteen, filled with all these sweet declarations of love and pure joy! But then, what happens when those kids hit ten or twelve? That's when the real chaos starts for parents! Once they actually start thinking for themselves and discovering who they are—hello, puberty!—suddenly the kid starts trying to unseat Mom or Dad from their pedestal. And suddenly, Mom is no longer the queen of the house, and the child is labeled as some "ungrateful brat" who totally deserves to be punished because they aren't being "good" anymore. Isn't it funny how the less qualified a parent is, the bigger that ego gap becomes?☕

Look, excuse me, but I honestly think every single parent is unqualified when they have their first kid.
Reading sixteen different parenting books won't magically turn me into some expert or even a decent parent once my own child finally arrives one day.

silentpilot6 said:I don't have kids myself, but I spent some time living under the same roof as my sister, her husband, and their little boy. He wasn't a bad kid by nature, but he certainly had his moments where he’d act out just to see how far he could push his parents' boundaries... refusing to listen or stop what he was doing no matter what. To be honest, a quick swat was sometimes the only thing that worked, even though they tried everything else first. I’m just saying you really have to experience it before you can claim to know the answer.
I'm not suggesting that there aren't parents out there who have never laid a hand on their child... but it feels a bit naive when people without children weigh in on what kids are actually capable of 😁. Similarly, you might have a "golden child" who is an absolute saint and never does anything to warrant discipline 😁, whereas other parents might think they have an angel, only to find out they're dealing with a little terror...

Parents create the little devils.😉
And parents create the little angels.😉😍
But of course, in our hypocritical society, we love to say: if the kids are good, it's because the parents are wonderful; but if the kids are "naughty," then the blame lies solely with the children.
The parent is always, absolutely always, responsible for the interaction between parent and child.

As for whether or not one has children...
We live in a culture that loves to generalize, which leads to that tired argument: only people with kids know anything about parenting.😂
Sure, if you believe that a massive number of parents who physically, sexually, or psychologically abuse their children 😲—do they really "know" anything about parenting? 🙄😉
Let's be realistic: there are parents who know a lot, some who know a little, and some who know nothing at all.
And there are people who aren't parents who know a lot, some who know a little, and some who know nothing at all.

I need to have a real talk with my kid first. Growing up, I just got hit—there was zero actual communication in my house, and honestly, nothing has changed even now...
And then you've got everyone else looking at them like they're some kind of parenting saints, all because I had straight A's and spent my time babysitting the neighborhood kids. 😁
I've got nothing but contempt for parents like that! 😉

The kids today definitely act more entitled, but hey, "monkey see, monkey do." At the end of the day, how a parent carries themselves and whether they actually talk to their kid plays a massive role in how that kid turns out mentally. It’s always easier to just blame the kid for everything they do, though...

Morgan Cooper34 said:I personally think *Primal Scream* by Arthur Janov is one of the best books out there regarding child upbringing, even if it isn't strictly focused on parenting. But honestly? I think we have much bigger problems than just punishing children. We have the issue of unwanted children. Kids born not because parents actually wanted them, but just because they felt it was something they "had" to do.

A few posts ago, you asked: "why are you all so afraid to tear down those perfect images of your parents, the ones who molded you into such good, disciplined little kids through strict, old-school discipline?
Get them off their pedestals."

Look, I don't put my parents on a pedestal, but I am certain they couldn't have been any better.
Despite a few times getting grounded or taking a hit, my parents truly wanted me and loved me. As a kid, I felt that. I could even feel their regret whenever they had to punish me (which usually happened because I was intentionally being difficult and testing every single boundary they set—but that's a whole other story). On the flip side, you'll meet plenty of people who would never lay a finger on their child, yet they've never built a real connection with them either. Why? Because that child wasn't wanted. They weren't loved.

The very fact that you're claiming your parents couldn't have been any better proves that you *are* keeping them on a pedestal! Because let's be real, anyone can improve, right? Unless you're claiming they were perfect, which means they're on that pedestal! And that part about them feeling bad for hitting you—well, shouldn't they have avoided hitting you altogether?! Are you seriously suggesting that it was harder for them to deal with the guilt than it was for you to take the hits?!☕

bluemason3 said:It’s not a belt for the kids, it’s one for the wife. ☕

Honestly, nothing beats having a buddy over, you yell out "Hey babe, grab us some bourbon!"—of course, bourbon—and she's there in a heartbeat...
So how on earth is a kid supposed to ignore you?😁
Real talk: parenting is all about how the parents communicate with each other.

If I’m running my mouth being negative about gay people😛 then tomorrow, during puberty, my kid sees someone of that orientation on TV at an anti-gay rally...

You raise them by setting an example—call it whatever you want—not by using belts or some ridiculous corporal punishment nonsense.
My music teacher, Mazur, used to yank me by the hair right behind the ear if I didn't hit the right note on the flute, which is why today I won't sing and wouldn't touch an instrument if you paid me.
One single tug and just like that, music was dead to me—and I could've been the next Matija Dedić...

Genetics, environment, social circles—are we really saying none of that matters? Is the burden of everything falling solely on the parents? By that logic, if you have good, responsible parents, every child should turn out exactly the same. I’m not so sure about that...

Generally speaking, those without children don't truly understand parenting. They might know the theory "on paper," but we all know how much you can manipulate paper. It's like love. You can read 1,500 love poems or 250 romance novels, but until you actually fall in love, you have no idea what it feels like.
It’s the same with other things; you can look at photos, watch movies, or read all the textbooks you want, and you can daydream all day 😁 but until you actually experience sex, you don't truly know what it is. So why would raising children be any different?
It is entirely possible—in fact, it's the reality 😁—that someone with one or more children who hasn't read a single book on the subject knows far more about parenting than someone without kids who has studied an entire library dedicated to "child rearing." 😁... I will always trust hands-on experience over pure theory. No book can account for every unique situation, every different child, or every unexpected event.
I'm not saying theories are useless or shouldn't be studied, but paper can claim anything, whereas real life is almost always different from the textbook version 😬 of life... Therefore, claiming to know how to raise children when you don't have any (yes, I do this too 😁) is, to put it mildly, unprofessional. It's especially problematic when people use absolutes like, "I'll never..." Well, we'll see. 😁