Let's talk perfectionism: General discussion

I have nothing to say about certain posts... It seems some people don't actually understand what perfectionism entails. It isn't necessarily a positive trait; while it might drive progress, it can just as easily lead to self-destruction.

If you truly claim to be a perfectionist, you have to admit that you can be a bit of a pain in the neck sometimes...
just like I am, for instance.
Everything simply has to turn out exactly how you envisioned it in your head, without a single flaw.
I honestly think there is such a deep connection here, because if you ever decide to cut corners, were you even really a perfectionist to begin with?

But really, don't you see the striking similarity between that mindset and how UPS operates?

It seems clear to me... whether we are talking about OCD or perfectionism, there is this deep-seated need for control. It’s an attempt by the individual to exert influence over their environment and the world at large. At its core, this behavior often stems from a mental blueprint formed during childhood or a specific turning point in one's life. For instance, consider a child forced into a caregiver role for a younger sibling before they were emotionally ready. Or perhaps it was a disproportionate amount of responsibility thrust upon them by parents—essentially forcing a child to shoulder parental burdens long before they had the maturity to handle them. Then, you have subsequent life events—a sudden trauma or a situation where control is completely stripped away—which leads a person to subconsciously compensate through perfectionism or develop OCD. There are countless scenarios, but the underlying theme is always some form of fear regarding the loss of control.

The focus really needs to be on learning how to simply "let things go." Meditation and similar practices can be incredibly helpful here; even if you strip away any spiritual context, it serves as a practical method where you are required to sit still for twenty minutes and consciously refrain from controlling anything. I am also certain that physical activities, such as dance, offer similar benefits. In those settings, a person learns to physically surrender to their impulses, and the positive effects of that training can eventually bleed into every other area of their life.

I’ll be the first to admit I’m a massive perfectionist, the kind of person who needs everything to be absolutely flawless and exactly according to my own vision, which—let’s face it—rarely actually happens, and honestly, it just wears me down. It’s a hell of a thing to deal with, even if I know deep down that I deserve everything I’m aiming for and everything I need in this life. I haven’t quite cracked the code on how to beat it yet, but I’m working on it, I really am. Personally, I’d much rather live a life defined by being exceptional than settle for some mediocre existence, because frankly, I’d sooner endure the constant grind of perfectionism than ever stoop to being just another average face in the crowd.

electrictiger70 said:It seems clear to me... whether we are talking about OCD or perfectionism, there is this deep-seated need for control. It’s an attempt by the individual to exert influence over their environment and the world at large. At its core, this behavior often stems from a mental blueprint formed during childhood or a specific turning point in one's life. For instance, consider a child forced into a caregiver role for a younger sibling before they were emotionally ready. Or perhaps it was a disproportionate amount of responsibility thrust upon them by parents—essentially forcing a child to shoulder parental burdens long before they had the maturity to handle them. Then, you have subsequent life events—a sudden trauma or a situation where control is completely stripped away—which leads a person to subconsciously compensate through perfectionism or develop OCD. There are countless scenarios, but the underlying theme is always some form of fear regarding the loss of control.

The focus really needs to be on learning how to simply "let things go." Meditation and similar practices can be incredibly helpful here; even if you strip away any spiritual context, it serves as a practical method where you are required to sit still for twenty minutes and consciously refrain from controlling anything. I am also certain that physical activities, such as dance, offer similar benefits. In those settings, a person learns to physically surrender to their impulses, and the positive effects of that training can eventually bleed into every other area of their life.

That's exactly right. If you're able to, please start seeing a therapist.👍

copperraven8 said:If you truly claim to be a perfectionist, you have to admit that you can be a bit of a pain in the neck sometimes...
just like I am, for instance.
Everything simply has to turn out exactly how you envisioned it in your head, without a single flaw.
I honestly think there is such a deep connection here, because if you ever decide to cut corners, were you even really a perfectionist to begin with?

But really, don't you see the striking similarity between that mindset and how UPS operates?

That's just how I am, and yeah, I definitely see the link to UPS.

Starting this thread because I’m struggling. I’ve always been a huge perfectionist—it was tied to being sensitive and feeling pretty insecure, though that's gotten a bit better lately. I actually managed to let go of most of that perfectionism (and the pessimism that came with it) and finally relaxed. Or maybe I just stopped expecting so much from everyone else and kept those high standards for myself. But now, this perfectionism is hitting me hard whenever it comes to work. Luckily, I’m not responsible for people's lives, but even when I make a tiny mistake, I absolutely beat myself up. And if there’s something I don't know how to do yet? Same thing. Honestly, I’m still a beginner, so making mistakes isn't even surprising. Even the veterans make them. On the other hand, I can't help feeling like if I had worked more or studied harder before, I wouldn't be messing up this much. What can I do? I could try to make up for lost time (even if it doesn't feel like there's that much to catch up on), gain more experience, and trust that my confidence will grow once I have it. But even then, I still rip myself apart over every little error, and I really don't want to deal with this level of stress just to get through the learning phase. I know I'm overreacting. Objectively, I know it's not healthy to be this hard on myself, but how do I stop? When I vent to my friends about it, they all tell me I'm doing a great job, that I'm being way too hard on myself, and that everything is actually fine and I just need to keep moving. But I still feel so stuck and upset. When I'm out with people, I can soak up their relaxed vibe, but once I'm alone, I spiral into this pessimism and expect everything to be absolutely flawless.

Look, I’ll be the first to admit—I lean pretty heavily into perfectionism. It’s a bit of a curse, honestly. Still, I try my absolute hardest to keep things balanced in everything I tackle. Sometimes I nail it, and sometimes... well, let's just say it's a work in progress. But listen, balance is really the secret sauce to success and happiness, no matter what your job is or where you're from. That being said, don't be too rigid. Aim for that equilibrium most of the time, but when you're dealing with something high-stakes, you've gotta dive deep into the details. For the small stuff? Just get it done and move on—don't waste your life overthinking minor details.

And for heaven's sake, stop worrying about what everyone else thinks. Seriously. Think about it: how much time do you actually spend obsessing over other people's lives, their futures, or their messy problems? Not much, right? Well, guess what? They aren't thinking about you nearly as much as you think they are.

Perfectionism isn't a flaw until it starts bleeding into your family life or messing with your friends... I don't see anything wrong with keeping things orderly or actually knowing where your stuff is. Good organization and perfectionism are basically cousins at this point. To be a decent organizer, you kind of have to be a bit of a perfectionist to begin with.

I have this idealized version of myself living in my head. It feels great when I indulge in the fantasy, but once I actually sit down and try to be realistic, I realize I’m nowhere near that person. Right now, I’m just some average guy—completely unremarkable in everything I do—and I feel stuck. There's no way out. Honestly, the realization is infuriating. I want constant growth. I want to reach a level where I’m self-sufficient, charismatic, interesting, attractive, and spontaneous. But instead of making progress, I just feel stagnant.

I’m trapped in mediocrity while craving perfection, both physically and personality-wise. Every time I see how minimal effort goes toward a slight improvement in physique after all that gym grind and sacrifice, my motivation just evaporates. Maybe I'm just envious of those naturally stunning people who don't have to lift a finger to look incredible. It seems like that physical advantage carries over into their personalities, too—they end up being those perfectly poised, spontaneous, fun individuals. I get the cliché about "accepting yourself as you are" and working on what can be fixed, but that isn't enough. Being "fine" won't get me anywhere near the standard I'm aiming for: being the kind of man who is genuinely desired in social circles, in the dating world, at work, and in everyday life.

How do I wake up from this?

It all feels a bit too much like "perfectionism" being used as a convenient shield in spaces where people justify their neuroses by claiming "everyone just wants to reach their maximum potential in life." Let’s be honest: that’s a total fallacy. Personally, I don't even have a clear definition for what that supposed "maximum" looks like.
For instance, my own aim is simply to become the best version of myself. I want to be the best person I can be for my own sake—not as some metric compared to the neighbors—and I want to navigate life knowing I've acted with integrity.
I wouldn't call myself a perfectionist in the slightest, especially not when it comes to those arbitrary benchmarks of academic or corporate success designed solely to make others perceive you as "winning." Now, that doesn't mean I haven't achieved things; it just means those achievements don't carry any weight in my internal ledger. They were merely the byproduct of my genuine interests and who I happen to be. And since those things can evolve, I see no reason to make a grand production out of them.
What I'm trying to get at, particularly for those who find these traits within themselves to be "toxic" or debilitating, is that you actually need perspective from someone who *isn't* stuck in that same loop. You need to observe a different way of operating to truly understand and adopt a better modus operandi. You don't need a support group of identical souls just to pat each other on the back and whisper reassurances that you aren't alone in your dysfunction. Unless, of course, that's exactly the kind of echo chamber you're looking for.

Who actually wants to be exceptional all the time? Me, frankly. Or rather, I refuse to exhaust myself chasing it. I find a certain joy in being unremarkable because I couldn't care less about social status, provided I know exactly who I am and remain a decent person to myself and those close to me. I have my peace, and that's plenty.

Being average doesn't have to be a bad thing. I mean, obviously, everyone wants to feel special or be some kind of outlier in their field, but at the end of the day... we all die anyway. And then you're just gone—nothing left to show for it, nothing done...
You really should just live in a way where you can actually sleep at night and be somewhat carefree. But man, there are all sorts of people out there. Some guy's whole life goal is to be the CEO, run his own massive corporation, and sail around on a yacht... which means he's gotta find a way to stay "above average" (though in this country, that usually just boils down to being a shady crook or some other bullshit)... hmmm...
Besides, there’s zero point in stressing yourself out trying to be the absolute best when there’s always going to be someone better out there. We shouldn't be pushing ourselves to the breaking point either, because what does it even matter if I'm the top performer at my company or the star student at NYU, if it just means I can't sleep, I'm constantly burnt out, and none of it actually matters in the grand scheme of things? :/

rowdyjackal56 said:It all feels a bit too much like "perfectionism" being used as a convenient shield in spaces where people justify their neuroses by claiming "everyone just wants to reach their maximum potential in life." Let’s be honest: that’s a total fallacy. Personally, I don't even have a clear definition for what that supposed "maximum" looks like.
For instance, my own aim is simply to become the best version of myself. I want to be the best person I can be for my own sake—not as some metric compared to the neighbors—and I want to navigate life knowing I've acted with integrity.
I wouldn't call myself a perfectionist in the slightest, especially not when it comes to those arbitrary benchmarks of academic or corporate success designed solely to make others perceive you as "winning." Now, that doesn't mean I haven't achieved things; it just means those achievements don't carry any weight in my internal ledger. They were merely the byproduct of my genuine interests and who I happen to be. And since those things can evolve, I see no reason to make a grand production out of them.
What I'm trying to get at, particularly for those who find these traits within themselves to be "toxic" or debilitating, is that you actually need perspective from someone who *isn't* stuck in that same loop. You need to observe a different way of operating to truly understand and adopt a better modus operandi. You don't need a support group of identical souls just to pat each other on the back and whisper reassurances that you aren't alone in your dysfunction. Unless, of course, that's exactly the kind of echo chamber you're looking for.

Who actually wants to be exceptional all the time? Me, frankly. Or rather, I refuse to exhaust myself chasing it. I find a certain joy in being unremarkable because I couldn't care less about social status, provided I know exactly who I am and remain a decent person to myself and those close to me. I have my peace, and that's plenty.

That’s really it. We can probably lock this thread now 🙂.
Quentin Tarantino:

I wouldn't call myself a perfectionist...

Whether you are one or not—well, it doesn't actually matter.

The whole discussion has left me feeling somewhat muddled: to my mind, it seems perfectly logical—perhaps even the only sensible way to live—to aim for my absolute peak in everything I undertake—to ensure I'm never just "going through the motions," but rather putting my entire soul into it.

I don't see anything inherently flawed in that approach—as long as a person doesn't spiral into bitterness or rage because their personal best isn't the gold standard for everyone else; as long as they can recognize when they've hit their own ceiling and don't start throwing tantrums just because someone else's ceiling happens to be higher, then I suppose perfectionism serves as a pretty decent motivational driver.

Amy Edwards4 said:I have this idealized version of myself living in my head. It feels great when I indulge in the fantasy, but once I actually sit down and try to be realistic, I realize I’m nowhere near that person. Right now, I’m just some average guy—completely unremarkable in everything I do—and I feel stuck. There's no way out. Honestly, the realization is infuriating. I want constant growth. I want to reach a level where I’m self-sufficient, charismatic, interesting, attractive, and spontaneous. But instead of making progress, I just feel stagnant.

I’m trapped in mediocrity while craving perfection, both physically and personality-wise. Every time I see how minimal effort goes toward a slight improvement in physique after all that gym grind and sacrifice, my motivation just evaporates. Maybe I'm just envious of those naturally stunning people who don't have to lift a finger to look incredible. It seems like that physical advantage carries over into their personalities, too—they end up being those perfectly poised, spontaneous, fun individuals. I get the cliché about "accepting yourself as you are" and working on what can be fixed, but that isn't enough. Being "fine" won't get me anywhere near the standard I'm aiming for: being the kind of man who is genuinely desired in social circles, in the dating world, at work, and in everyday life.

How do I wake up from this?

Perhaps by attempting to stop being so heavily influenced by mindless American sitcoms and low-budget Hollywood trash? Or maybe by spending less time socializing with the vapid people who are under such an influence? 🤷

rowdyjackal56 said:It all feels a bit too much like "perfectionism" being used as a convenient shield in spaces where people justify their neuroses by claiming "everyone just wants to reach their maximum potential in life." Let’s be honest: that’s a total fallacy. Personally, I don't even have a clear definition for what that supposed "maximum" looks like.
For instance, my own aim is simply to become the best version of myself. I want to be the best person I can be for my own sake—not as some metric compared to the neighbors—and I want to navigate life knowing I've acted with integrity.
I wouldn't call myself a perfectionist in the slightest, especially not when it comes to those arbitrary benchmarks of academic or corporate success designed solely to make others perceive you as "winning." Now, that doesn't mean I haven't achieved things; it just means those achievements don't carry any weight in my internal ledger. They were merely the byproduct of my genuine interests and who I happen to be. And since those things can evolve, I see no reason to make a grand production out of them.
What I'm trying to get at, particularly for those who find these traits within themselves to be "toxic" or debilitating, is that you actually need perspective from someone who *isn't* stuck in that same loop. You need to observe a different way of operating to truly understand and adopt a better modus operandi. You don't need a support group of identical souls just to pat each other on the back and whisper reassurances that you aren't alone in your dysfunction. Unless, of course, that's exactly the kind of echo chamber you're looking for.

Who actually wants to be exceptional all the time? Me, frankly. Or rather, I refuse to exhaust myself chasing it. I find a certain joy in being unremarkable because I couldn't care less about social status, provided I know exactly who I am and remain a decent person to myself and those close to me. I have my peace, and that's plenty.

I quite admire that outlook on life... there is a certain elegant balance to it, and perhaps even a touch of wisdom...

I feel like there's this huge issue in our society where people tie perfectionism to all these positive vibes like discipline, solid work ethic, or just being a "good worker," in the exact same way we act like constant grinding and zero sleep are just hallmarks of being ambitious and driven—but honestly, none of that is healthy because we're talking about total extremes here.

We also have to face the fact that we live in a world, especially here in the States, where you practically have to be a superhero in terms of your skills and how hard you hustle just to get noticed or to maintain a decent life. Instead of realizing that these standards are actually impossible and usually just lead straight to anxiety, depression, losing your zest for life, and massive stress, our culture actually encourages and rewards that kind of behavior.

I’ve struggled with perfectionism for as long as I can remember. Even when I was just a little kid, I felt like I had to do everything myself because I didn't trust anyone else to do a job "well enough." I remember back in elementary school art class, I’d often fail to finish anything on time because every single tiny line in my drawing had to be absolutely flawless; I always had such a brutal opinion of myself, and the only way I thought I could fix it in my own eyes was by being the absolute best at literally everything.

Obviously, you can't sustain that mindset forever, and now, in my early 20s, I’ve developed a whole laundry list of phobias, depression, anxiety, and all those heavy feelings. I find myself constantly second-guessing things in life out of fear that if it won't be perfect, why even start? It’s like the textbook definition of what happens when extreme perfectionism takes over. This thing seriously stops me from being truly happy, and I really believe there are so many other people out there dealing with the exact same thing.

I would give anything to figure out the root causes of my perfectionism, because I think understanding the "why" would help me finally tackle the problem, but I honestly have no clue how to pin it down. Is it something baked into my DNA? Maybe it’s just how I was raised, since both of my parents are the exact same way about this stuff? Or maybe it’s the pressure from society, or even my own financial situation that made me feel like perfection was the only way to climb out of the hole I'm in... the list just keeps going and going.

Andrew Diaz3 said:I feel like there's this huge issue in our society where people tie perfectionism to all these positive vibes like discipline, solid work ethic, or just being a "good worker," in the exact same way we act like constant grinding and zero sleep are just hallmarks of being ambitious and driven—but honestly, none of that is healthy because we're talking about total extremes here.

We also have to face the fact that we live in a world, especially here in the States, where you practically have to be a superhero in terms of your skills and how hard you hustle just to get noticed or to maintain a decent life. Instead of realizing that these standards are actually impossible and usually just lead straight to anxiety, depression, losing your zest for life, and massive stress, our culture actually encourages and rewards that kind of behavior.

I’ve struggled with perfectionism for as long as I can remember. Even when I was just a little kid, I felt like I had to do everything myself because I didn't trust anyone else to do a job "well enough." I remember back in elementary school art class, I’d often fail to finish anything on time because every single tiny line in my drawing had to be absolutely flawless; I always had such a brutal opinion of myself, and the only way I thought I could fix it in my own eyes was by being the absolute best at literally everything.

Obviously, you can't sustain that mindset forever, and now, in my early 20s, I’ve developed a whole laundry list of phobias, depression, anxiety, and all those heavy feelings. I find myself constantly second-guessing things in life out of fear that if it won't be perfect, why even start? It’s like the textbook definition of what happens when extreme perfectionism takes over. This thing seriously stops me from being truly happy, and I really believe there are so many other people out there dealing with the exact same thing.

I would give anything to figure out the root causes of my perfectionism, because I think understanding the "why" would help me finally tackle the problem, but I honestly have no clue how to pin it down. Is it something baked into my DNA? Maybe it’s just how I was raised, since both of my parents are the exact same way about this stuff? Or maybe it’s the pressure from society, or even my own financial situation that made me feel like perfection was the only way to climb out of the hole I'm in... the list just keeps going and going.

Maybe it’s just parental expectations?

When we discuss professional conduct, the term 'perfectionism' is frequently misapplied to situations where it simply doesn't belong.

For instance, I am often accused of being a perfectionist, which is quite a misunderstanding; I am merely adhering to the established professional standards of my field. In this current era of hyper-production and endless digital garbage, it has become a bizarre phenomenon where simply performing a job with actual competence is rebranded as 'perfectionism.'

Take journalism, for example: the industry has pivoted to cater to the masses—since maintaining a high-quality newsroom isn't profitable if you're only targeting a niche audience—which effectively makes it an indicator of the average person's intellect. Consequently, the entire value system has shifted; since the lowest common denominator is what sells, anything that meets a standard higher than "idiot-proof" is labeled as some sort of obsessive 'perfectionism.'

My profession shares the same tragic trajectory as mainstream journalism, giving me a front-row seat to just how much the average person has been intellectually dulled. The planet is practically suffocating under the weight of hyper-production and all manner of mindless clutter. I don't consider myself a perfectionist, but I certainly refuse to spend my life churning out trash designed specifically for fools.

Honestly, I’m still feeling a little awkward about this because I just realized I was using the wrong pronoun—I should have said 'my' instead of 'his.' 🙂

Regarding parental expectations, yeah, they were definitely there in a standard way, but in all honesty, nobody ever actually forced my hand; it felt more like it was just coming from deep inside me. If anything, they spent a ton of time trying to tell me that making a mistake or getting a bad grade wasn't the end of the world, but it didn't matter because, by then, I had already convinced myself that they were totally wrong 🙂

If you ask me, I think perfectionists actually lack the necessary intelligence to truly grasp their own potential and act on it effectively. Someone with real insight understands that making mistakes is just part of being human—after all, nobody is actually perfect.

Andrew Diaz3 said:I feel like there's this huge issue in our society where people tie perfectionism to all these positive vibes like discipline, solid work ethic, or just being a "good worker," in the exact same way we act like constant grinding and zero sleep are just hallmarks of being ambitious and driven—but honestly, none of that is healthy because we're talking about total extremes here.

We also have to face the fact that we live in a world, especially here in the States, where you practically have to be a superhero in terms of your skills and how hard you hustle just to get noticed or to maintain a decent life. Instead of realizing that these standards are actually impossible and usually just lead straight to anxiety, depression, losing your zest for life, and massive stress, our culture actually encourages and rewards that kind of behavior.

I’ve struggled with perfectionism for as long as I can remember. Even when I was just a little kid, I felt like I had to do everything myself because I didn't trust anyone else to do a job "well enough." I remember back in elementary school art class, I’d often fail to finish anything on time because every single tiny line in my drawing had to be absolutely flawless; I always had such a brutal opinion of myself, and the only way I thought I could fix it in my own eyes was by being the absolute best at literally everything.

Obviously, you can't sustain that mindset forever, and now, in my early 20s, I’ve developed a whole laundry list of phobias, depression, anxiety, and all those heavy feelings. I find myself constantly second-guessing things in life out of fear that if it won't be perfect, why even start? It’s like the textbook definition of what happens when extreme perfectionism takes over. This thing seriously stops me from being truly happy, and I really believe there are so many other people out there dealing with the exact same thing.

I would give anything to figure out the root causes of my perfectionism, because I think understanding the "why" would help me finally tackle the problem, but I honestly have no clue how to pin it down. Is it something baked into my DNA? Maybe it’s just how I was raised, since both of my parents are the exact same way about this stuff? Or maybe it’s the pressure from society, or even my own financial situation that made me feel like perfection was the only way to climb out of the hole I'm in... the list just keeps going and going.

Upbringing.

Andrew Diaz3 said:Honestly, I’m still feeling a little awkward about this because I just realized I was using the wrong pronoun—I should have said 'my' instead of 'his.' 🙂

Regarding parental expectations, yeah, they were definitely there in a standard way, but in all honesty, nobody ever actually forced my hand; it felt more like it was just coming from deep inside me. If anything, they spent a ton of time trying to tell me that making a mistake or getting a bad grade wasn't the end of the world, but it didn't matter because, by then, I had already convinced myself that they were totally wrong 🙂

Once you internalize something, it starts to feel like your own original thought. It isn't. Children don't just learn from what their parents say—the spoken words and the silences alike. They learn from observation. If your parents were perfectionists, as you noted, it is hardly surprising that you adopted that exact blueprint for yourself.