Vedic Authorities?

Andrew Sanchez572 said:Oh, really? How on earth did I miss that part of history? I suppose I just wasn't drinking much coffee back then... 🤷

I suppose they just had a different "focus" in their local area.😬

Maybe I'm just overthinking things here.😁

bluemason3 said:Good people always wanted to help the "starving student"... such a hardworking guy, funding his tuition by selling books door-to-door. 😬

Looking back, it wasn't all bad. It was actually kind of nice when a Bhakta would stop by. You'd grab a little book, maybe a cookie, and just chat for a bit. 😁

But honestly, the best part was just letting people believe whatever "karmic" nonsense they wanted. 😁

I had this one guy I just couldn't convince—he was dead set on the idea that the cookies were made out of manure. 😂

I honestly feel no shame at all about it, nor do I consider what happened to be particularly heavy or traumatic.
I actually first discovered those books through a Sankirtan Bhakta.
And my mother didn't walk away with any bad impressions of that Bhakta either; on the contrary, she felt quite positive...

Yeah, yeah... that was totally me... 🙂 😬 🤣 .. I basically specialized in charming the older ladies... 😂

edit: btw the harinam with Akbar was awesome! 😍

😁
and you could only have been a Bhakta thirty years ago... 🙏
By the way, she ended up picking up the Bhagavad Gita, the first and second volumes of the Srimad Bhagavatam, some self-realization studies, and the Upanishads.
That is wonderful! Back when I was just a young girl, I absolutely loved looking through all those beautiful illustrations, especially the ones from the Bhagavatam. 😍

haha... that was exactly 16 years ago.

Andrew Sanchez572 said:😁
and you could only have been a Bhakta thirty years ago... 🙏
By the way, she ended up picking up the Bhagavad Gita, the first and second volumes of the Srimad Bhagavatam, some self-realization studies, and the Upanishads.
That is wonderful! Back when I was just a young girl, I absolutely loved looking through all those beautiful illustrations, especially the ones from the Bhagavatam. 😍

haha... I actually bought the Gita and "The Ultimate Questions" while I was literally in high school... A Bhakta actually walked right into our classroom during class period... but man, everyone went totally wild 🙏😍

boldsailor2 said:haha... I actually bought the Gita and "The Ultimate Questions" while I was literally in high school... A Bhakta actually walked right into our classroom during class period... but man, everyone went totally wild 🙏😍

you really had to have some nerve to pull something like that off😍
I joined the movement about 15 years ago; I was only 14 at the time...

I want to steer this thread back toward a more serious conversation. Personally, I think it’s a major red flag when people like you, who are still actively pursuing spiritual paths, end up feeling disillusioned with the whole bhakti process. I won't get into a long lecture on why these situations happen, but I guess you can judge how much someone is actually practicing bhakti by their level of genuine connection to Krishna and the practice itself.

For instance, it really shouldn't be the case that someone chants mantras for years and still struggles to find any rhythm or flow. If that's happening to you, maybe you should seriously question what you're actually doing—is this truly the bhakti described in the scriptures, or just some version of it that others have convinced you is real?

I wasn’t actually disappointed with the process itself; rather, I found myself frustrated by the internal politics involved, and I say that with complete sincerity.
By the way, I find it quite peculiar that individuals who claim to be so deeply committed to bhakti and devotion can simultaneously develop such profound alienation and a lack of empathy... one has to wonder, what kind of anartha is that?

Following those reflections, I realized that I am much more drawn to different methods and various ways of approaching the divine (if we are to call it that), and so it goes.

Andrew Sanchez572 said:I wasn’t actually disappointed with the process itself; rather, I found myself frustrated by the internal politics involved, and I say that with complete sincerity.
By the way, I find it quite peculiar that individuals who claim to be so deeply committed to bhakti and devotion can simultaneously develop such profound alienation and a lack of empathy... one has to wonder, what kind of anartha is that?

Following those reflections, I realized that I am much more drawn to different methods and various ways of approaching the divine (if we are to call it that), and so it goes.

That's exactly my point. These people followed a path that ultimately just hardened their hearts. Once you see where that road leads, it makes sense that you'd switch to a different approach and method like you have now.

But look, the methods themselves aren't the issue; it's the approach that's completely wrong. Chanting the Holy Name is considered the most powerful way to achieve realization in Gaudiya Vaishnavism, and I guess it actually is—provided it's done correctly and under proper guidance. Without that, the exact same practice can turn someone cold, which then makes everyone else think the method itself is flawed.

No, I certainly don't hold the process itself accountable for the fact that some people simply possess such hardened hearts.
I have encountered similar types of individuals in other circles as well.
And it isn't as if my own heart has grown callous from practicing bhakti yoga... it just strikes me as quite peculiar that certain people remain so resistant even after ten or twenty years of dedicated practice.
What is it they actually do with their lives, I wonder?

I simply made the decision to distance myself from those kinds of people.

And in doing so, I happened to gain some rather profound insights into my own nature.

granitebadger23 said:That's exactly my point. These people followed a path that ultimately just hardened their hearts. Once you see where that road leads, it makes sense that you'd switch to a different approach and method like you have now.

But look, the methods themselves aren't the issue; it's the approach that's completely wrong. Chanting the Holy Name is considered the most powerful way to achieve realization in Gaudiya Vaishnavism, and I guess it actually is—provided it's done correctly and under proper guidance. Without that, the exact same practice can turn someone cold, which then makes everyone else think the method itself is flawed.

Look, with all due respect to the Gaudiya matha, I felt it was pretty wrong when I was reading that one book—I can't recall the exact title, maybe something like *Nectar of the Name* or whatever—where it claimed that when an Advaita follower chants Krishna's Name, they're basically driving poisoned arrows into His holy body. That part just sat really poorly with me. It sounded pretty ugly.

Andrew Sanchez572 said:No, I certainly don't hold the process itself accountable for the fact that some people simply possess such hardened hearts.
I have encountered similar types of individuals in other circles as well.
And it isn't as if my own heart has grown callous from practicing bhakti yoga... it just strikes me as quite peculiar that certain people remain so resistant even after ten or twenty years of dedicated practice.
What is it they actually do with their lives, I wonder?

I simply made the decision to distance myself from those kinds of people.

And in doing so, I happened to gain some rather profound insights into my own nature.

That’s exactly why I argued that everyone needs to take a hard look at themselves—are they actually practicing Bhakti, or just following whatever someone else convinced them was Bhakti?

The whole point of practicing Bhakti is that your heart naturally softens; it shouldn't get harder. So, if someone's heart isn't softening, or if they aren't developing a real taste for it, then they clearly aren't practicing properly, or maybe they're just constantly being offensive, which prevents any real progress.

mistygull16 said:Look, with all due respect to the Gaudiya matha, I felt it was pretty wrong when I was reading that one book—I can't recall the exact title, maybe something like *Nectar of the Name* or whatever—where it claimed that when an Advaita follower chants Krishna's Name, they're basically driving poisoned arrows into His holy body. That part just sat really poorly with me. It sounded pretty ugly.

It’s ugly, and I guess it's also completely wrong.

When we talk about process flaws and "aggressive proselytizing," there might be a connection to find here. To be clear, the issue isn't having a "heavy" approach in general. I’ve never had any unpleasant experiences with devotees, and I rarely encounter anyone with a bad attitude—at least not during the chanting sessions. It’s true things are better now than they used to be, too. Most of the time, I just remember them as genuinely kind people who were a pleasure to be around.

I suspect the problem isn't really affecting the community, but rather the practitioners themselves.

First off, I don't think you achieve much through that kind of preaching. You have certain groups that preach intensely and fail, while others take a more subtle approach and actually succeed. Of course, "success" is a loaded term—numbers aren't everything—but we have to admit that Vaishnavism wouldn't have spread among Westerners nearly as much if it hadn't been promoted at all. However, looking at the long game—specifically how many serious devotees actually stick around after several years—I don't see much difference between hosting massive festivals versus small temple gatherings, or going door-to-door versus simply leaving books at a local Barnes & Noble for interested buyers. Someone in another Eastern group once told me that when they asked why they didn't advertise when famous teachers visited, they noted that while heavy advertising brings in more people, the number of permanent members remains roughly the same regardless. Those who are truly interested and internally drawn will find a way to show up; everyone else just makes a splash and then moves on.

As for one's spiritual life, this approach might not be the healthiest. There is far too much focus on "outward" appearances within the organization. Chanting is loud, preaching is prioritized, and they even track how many books a person distributes as if those are some sort of mindless merit points. Personally, I’d much prefer an approach where the initial goal was to maintain the temple or ashram through minimal work—say, making incense or food—leaving the rest of the time for actual spiritual practice. That would likely benefit newcomers more than listening to a young devotee preach when they haven't even found their own footing yet. The whole thing feels a bit superficial, and ultimately, it can damage a practitioner's spiritual growth; they risk burning out on external tasks before they've even built a solid foundation. It's almost as if the approach is a bit too idealistic. 😁

The real question is what you’re actually looking for... the whole aesthetic is gorgeous—all those colors, the food, the dancing... but it’s all just window dressing. In a spiritual life, the only thing that matters is finding a worthy Guru; everything else is just the scenery. Once I realized how you actually become a Guru at ISKCON, I knew I had to leave—there was no stopping me. I just couldn't bring myself to follow someone whose only qualifications were being "likable" or having a nice singing voice... sorry, but not for me!!! The lineage basically died out after Srila Prabhupada passed... it's obvious. He didn't leave behind a legitimate successor, so it's goodbye to me!!!

It’s honestly not surprising at all... You’ve got names like Yogananda, Vivekananda, Ramana, and Prabhupada—all of them left behind organizations built on their core principles... which is totally fine... but if you’re actually serious and ready, I think you have to go out and find an authentic living teacher of that same caliber—someone who truly embodies what they were—and you shouldn't settle for anything less (once I realized that, my own Teacher finally appeared) ... people like that are rare, sure, but they definitely still exist on this planet... major props to SP... but he isn't here in the physical sense anymore, and his students just haven't quite reached that level yet...

The problem is that these Scientology followers are just so bloated with theoretical knowledge and verses—it’s all dry theory. It makes it nearly impossible to break through that fog of ignorance to find actual spirituality, because you need an open heart to experience it... but they’re like a cup that's already full; there's simply no room to pour anything else in. Personally, I can tell you that I would never have shed that heavy burden of fake superiority and intellectual arrogance—you know, those "unbeatable" canned answers they have ready for every possible question—if I hadn't met my Mentor. Standing next to him, everything I thought I knew just collapsed like a house of cards... I honestly can't even describe the relief I felt.

boldsailor2, theory isn't the issue. Everyone has theories, even yogis. The real problem is your claim that there’s a lack of living examples—a lack of actual depth beneath all that theory. To be honest, I’d much rather take the few things I actually like in ISKCON, such as Sacinandana and Krishna, over having to choose between them and SP when it comes to teachers. So, I'm not really sure about what he did or didn't leave behind. 😁Personally, that lineage starting from Bhaktisidhanta doesn't appeal to me. Then again, based on certain episodes involving how some babajis treated him and some of the facts we know about his life (assuming they're true), he was probably operating on a different level altogether. Still, there are things about it that just don't sit right with me. 🤷

At the end of the day, it's all subjective. It's about what resonates with you.