New Age spirituality: Can it actually save the planet?

Jacob Jackson50 said:Even in the deepest, pitch-black darkness, you can still find a way out. You just have to remember to flip the light switch.

That is a lovely sentiment, but let’s be realistic: you don't "exit" the darkness. You merely illuminate it for a moment.

As long as you're the one footing the bill for the electricity...

gentlemaker6 said:Death doesn't actually exist. It is merely a shift in form—a rebirth on the other side. Life is defined by constant change, so it follows that change is what truly binds us together. We can certainly choose to celebrate change. Life never truly terminates; it simply evolves. 😁

That is nothing more than a coping mechanism for you.😁

Ryan Wilson2 said:That is nothing more than a coping mechanism for you.😁

I am not seeking comfort. I simply know the facts.

gentlemaker6 said:I am not seeking comfort. I simply know the facts.

The truth is, nobody can claim to know for certain until they've actually passed away. Everything else is nothing more than idle philosophizing—a desperate attempt to distract ourselves from our inherent fear of death.

placidjackal36 said:I’m not going to argue with you, because you clearly can't hold a conversation without drifting off into your own little fantasies.
1) I am not an atheist.
2) Life is driven by energy-rich chemical compounds— that isn't a belief, it's a fact.
3) I have zero interest in your dogmas.

That’s all I have to say. Since you labeled me an atheist (which I know is meant as an insult), I’d love to give you a piece of my mind, but I won't. I've been warned that I can't express personal opinions about others on this subforum. Everything has to be wrapped in velvet, polite and polished. It's a shame, really; it doesn't suit my personality at all—most of us back home are much more direct than that. I have enough social restraint to avoid blurting out every thought that crosses my mind, but I refuse to act hypocritical or spineless.

That’s a solid comparison. But he isn't going to get it because he's too intoxicated by his own slogans. His brain is just pumping out serotonin while he repeats those shallow experiences of easy happiness he felt when he first started reading thicker books (and unfortunately, you know the type).

Yeah, he planned ahead. In fact, he was more "human" than the settlers who tore him apart. A cheetah doesn't plan. An elephant doesn't plan. A moth doesn't plan. They just eat until they're done.
I think what happened in North America just goes to show that parts of humanity haven't moved past those primitive, impulsive behaviors—behaviors that might be acceptable if they didn't constantly clash with someone else's right to live and be free.

We aren't stupid, but we are definitely crazy if we think we can destroy not just the planet, but ourselves in the process with nothing but colorful scraps of paper.
Budd was right; there is no good or evil, there is only awareness and ignorance.
We lack wisdom, which is why Simon33 is writing in vain here—mystical insights just don't transfer through internet forums.

I agree to a point, but you should never live under the delusion that you are fully aware. That mindset is exactly what landed us in this mess. You set a goal just within reach so that you're always moving toward it. Once people fall into the trap some folks here have, they stop striving altogether and just settle into a mental swamp.

I’m hoping for the collapse of this destructive modern civilization that convinced us that living in luxury is the pinnacle of existence. I just wonder what most people are feeling under all that stress and dissatisfaction. Subconsciously, they know we are living unnaturally—living at breakneck speeds, stressed out, racing just to achieve something or get somewhere.

Like the Native Americans used to say—we will return.🙂

What kind of collapse are you talking about?

My apologies; I truly didn't mean to offend you by calling you an atheist. I just remembered seeing you mention once that you identify as agnostic. I have nothing against atheists, so labeling someone isn't an insult in my book—it seems I missed the mark there. I was an atheist myself at one point, so I certainly understand the perspective.

Life is created by energy-rich chemical compounds? Everyone had a good laugh at that one. 😂😂😂

If my posts don't interest you, please feel free to simply ignore them.

Perhaps it would be best if I started studying physics, chemistry, and similar subjects. Apparently, that is the only literature that makes a person intelligent. Everything else is worthless. In fact, we should probably just burn every other book in a massive bonfire; they only serve to dull the mind. The most important thing is knowing which specific chemical substance my brain or some gland is secreting in any given moment. Bravo. You’ve managed to solve many of life's essential mysteries with that single statement.😁

Ryan Wilson2 said:The truth is, nobody can claim to know for certain until they've actually passed away. Everything else is nothing more than idle philosophizing—a desperate attempt to distract ourselves from our inherent fear of death.

I have died many times in my previous lives. Just like you, and everyone else on this planet.

gentlemaker6 said:Are you suggesting that because a tiny fraction of a percent of people are self-destructive or unwell, this entire principle becomes invalid? If so, that is a compelling argument. 🙄

I have no idea what the actual percentage is. 0.00000000001%?
I'm not trying to judge whether the principle is good or bad. I can't make that call. This was just a discussion.

gentlemaker6 said:My apologies; I truly didn't mean to offend you by calling you an atheist. I just remembered seeing you mention once that you identify as agnostic. I have nothing against atheists, so labeling someone isn't an insult in my book—it seems I missed the mark there. I was an atheist myself at one point, so I certainly understand the perspective.

Life is created by energy-rich chemical compounds? Everyone had a good laugh at that one. 😂😂😂

If my posts don't interest you, please feel free to simply ignore them.

Perhaps it would be best if I started studying physics, chemistry, and similar subjects. Apparently, that is the only literature that makes a person intelligent. Everything else is worthless. In fact, we should probably just burn every other book in a massive bonfire; they only serve to dull the mind. The most important thing is knowing which specific chemical substance my brain or some gland is secreting in any given moment. Bravo. You’ve managed to solve many of life's essential mysteries with that single statement.😁

Sometimes I’m agnostic, sometimes I’m an atheist, and sometimes I’m a believer. For certain things, I believe simply because they can't be proven. When it comes to nonsense that flies in the face of hard facts, I'm a staunch atheist—or even an antitheist, if we're using your definition of the term, which seems more concerned with supernatural entities than what I'm actually talking about.

Life is created by energy-rich chemical compounds? Everyone laughed. 😂😂😂

If you aren't interested in what I'm writing, then stop replying to my posts.

Yes, life is driven by energy-rich compounds. You honestly think this is just my little invention?
What about the massive teams of researchers who have dedicated their lives to this? What about the millions of people every day who validate these discoveries?
Have you ever actually looked into physiology? People have spent lifetimes studying how a human being functions. They’ve run experiments. They’ve measured the intake and output of mass, calculated how much energy a single unit of a nutrient provides through complete oxidation versus what's actually utilized when someone eats, and then mapped out the metabolic utility of specific parts: muscle, brain, and so on. They’ve tracked oxygen intake and expiration during rest, during study, or while running.
They’ve analyzed bodily fluids using every method under the sun, put subjects through X-rays and NMR, and monitored brain activity via EEG and heart rhythms via EKG.

We know exactly why a person lives and why they die. We understand our own structure down to the histological details. We know what powers a cell—the breakdown of substances and their fusion with oxygen in the mitochondria to produce the ATP that drives everything else.
We know how the kidneys filter waste and exactly how much energy that process requires.
We know why a heart can keep beating even when the brain is effectively dead. We know where emotions reside and where memories are stored.
We know where the center of balance is, and why a person panics when their airway is obstructed.
We know why it hurts when you get hit. We know why the smell of smoke or the sound of a firecracker can trigger a panic attack. We know why a mother's breast produces milk the moment a newborn latches.
We know what reflexes are.

A human being is such a beautifully complex organism that you’re essentially dragging its incredible sophistication through the mud by denying it. You deny it in almost every single post you make. Honestly, it gets under my skin.

I guess it would be best if I just started reading books on physics, chemistry, and stuff like that. Apparently, that's the only way to be considered smart. Everything else is worthless. Maybe I should just toss all other books onto a bonfire. They probably just serve to make people stupid anyway. The most important thing is knowing which chemical substance my brain or some gland is secreting in a given situation. Bravo. You've solved many of life's essential mysteries with that one statement.😁

Look, you really ought to start reading more. You need to take a closer look at the very things you’re dismissing just because you refuse to acknowledge how complex they actually are. I never said things like the meaning of life were "stupid." But you know what is stupid? Denying the actual facts of life, which is exactly what you're doing right now.

Where on earth did you get the notion that I think nothing else has value? Is *Anna Karenina* garbage just because it isn't chemistry? Is Bach’s Third Suite worthless simply because it isn't physics?
Where are you even pulling these delusions from?

And where does this idea come from—that explaining a phenomenon somehow strips away its beauty? According to your logic, something is only beautiful if you’re too ignorant to understand how it works?
Is a night sky outside a major US city suddenly trash and stripped of its wonder just because we know it isn't some mystical shell of dots controlling our behavior, but rather a massive expanse of gas and plasma fusing elements?
Why would it be?

By your reasoning, does understanding how sound waves propagate through metal and air somehow degrade the raw, visceral terror felt when someone strikes a memorial bell in a quiet town square?

Man, what is wrong with you? Seriously, what is actually going on in your head?

placidjackal36 said:But I’m not "in" Karr, nor is he "in" me. He’s just made of the same particles I am. I don't see why that makes anything special.

It’s almost as if it’s perfectly normal that Mercer is composed of tin-based compounds, Maddox is niobium-based, and Karr is carbon-based, and then—BINGO!—we’re special, we’re interconnected! 👋

I honestly don't get it. As individuals, we aren't defined by our constituent particles (since we all share the same ones), but by how they are arranged. And Karr has a different arrangement than mine—one where he enjoys murdering Mexicans. 🤷

If I’m eating a cookie right now, Karr isn't eating it too. We aren't connected.
You can't build global human cooperation based on the fact that we're all carbon-based, or that we all contain ribosomes. Even sand contains ribosomes. And it's made of carbon, too.

So, I really doubt this is ever going to change the world. Most people already know they are carbon-based. If they haven't learned it from a textbook, they’ve certainly learned it through the experience of a nasty burn.

Maybe you inhaled the same atom that Newton or Karr breathed in once?

placidjackal36 said:Sometimes I’m agnostic, sometimes I’m an atheist, and sometimes I’m a believer. For certain things, I believe simply because they can't be proven. When it comes to nonsense that flies in the face of hard facts, I'm a staunch atheist—or even an antitheist, if we're using your definition of the term, which seems more concerned with supernatural entities than what I'm actually talking about.

Life is created by energy-rich chemical compounds? Everyone laughed. 😂😂😂

If you aren't interested in what I'm writing, then stop replying to my posts.

Yes, life is driven by energy-rich compounds. You honestly think this is just my little invention?
What about the massive teams of researchers who have dedicated their lives to this? What about the millions of people every day who validate these discoveries?
Have you ever actually looked into physiology? People have spent lifetimes studying how a human being functions. They’ve run experiments. They’ve measured the intake and output of mass, calculated how much energy a single unit of a nutrient provides through complete oxidation versus what's actually utilized when someone eats, and then mapped out the metabolic utility of specific parts: muscle, brain, and so on. They’ve tracked oxygen intake and expiration during rest, during study, or while running.
They’ve analyzed bodily fluids using every method under the sun, put subjects through X-rays and NMR, and monitored brain activity via EEG and heart rhythms via EKG.

We know exactly why a person lives and why they die. We understand our own structure down to the histological details. We know what powers a cell—the breakdown of substances and their fusion with oxygen in the mitochondria to produce the ATP that drives everything else.
We know how the kidneys filter waste and exactly how much energy that process requires.
We know why a heart can keep beating even when the brain is effectively dead. We know where emotions reside and where memories are stored.
We know where the center of balance is, and why a person panics when their airway is obstructed.
We know why it hurts when you get hit. We know why the smell of smoke or the sound of a firecracker can trigger a panic attack. We know why a mother's breast produces milk the moment a newborn latches.
We know what reflexes are.

A human being is such a beautifully complex organism that you’re essentially dragging its incredible sophistication through the mud by denying it. You deny it in almost every single post you make. Honestly, it gets under my skin.

I guess it would be best if I just started reading books on physics, chemistry, and stuff like that. Apparently, that's the only way to be considered smart. Everything else is worthless. Maybe I should just toss all other books onto a bonfire. They probably just serve to make people stupid anyway. The most important thing is knowing which chemical substance my brain or some gland is secreting in a given situation. Bravo. You've solved many of life's essential mysteries with that one statement.😁

Look, you really ought to start reading more. You need to take a closer look at the very things you’re dismissing just because you refuse to acknowledge how complex they actually are. I never said things like the meaning of life were "stupid." But you know what is stupid? Denying the actual facts of life, which is exactly what you're doing right now.

Where on earth did you get the notion that I think nothing else has value? Is *Anna Karenina* garbage just because it isn't chemistry? Is Bach’s Third Suite worthless simply because it isn't physics?
Where are you even pulling these delusions from?

And where does this idea come from—that explaining a phenomenon somehow strips away its beauty? According to your logic, something is only beautiful if you’re too ignorant to understand how it works?
Is a night sky outside a major US city suddenly trash and stripped of its wonder just because we know it isn't some mystical shell of dots controlling our behavior, but rather a massive expanse of gas and plasma fusing elements?
Why would it be?

By your reasoning, does understanding how sound waves propagate through metal and air somehow degrade the raw, visceral terror felt when someone strikes a memorial bell in a quiet town square?

Man, what is wrong with you? Seriously, what is actually going on in your head?

placidjackal36, I’m honestly surprised to see you posting about spirituality, especially since you tend to view it through such a... mythic lens. 🙂
In this space, scientific data isn't some absolute, untouchable truth, and subjective values within one's own internal compass carry a lot of weight—not to mention those experiential insights into the beyond, that whole realm of existence you don't even acknowledge...
Under these circumstances, it’s hard to have a real conversation with someone like gentlemaker6; it’s kind of like trying to discuss literature with a kid who has barely mastered the alphabet but hasn't quite tackled Dostoevsky yet. 😉 And I say that strictly in terms of understanding that we all exist on different levels of consciousness, where no one is inherently better or worse than anyone else, we're just simply where we are right now... much like how you wouldn't—and shouldn't—compare the intellect of a third grader to an eighth grader back in middle school. I hope you follow my drift... 🙂

Morgan Hernandez5 said:Maybe you inhaled the same atom that Newton or Karr breathed in once?

I’m pretty sure I’m made up of at least a thousand particles that were once part of Spartan. 🙂

rustymaker5 said:placidjackal36, I’m honestly surprised to see you posting about spirituality, especially since you tend to view it through such a... mythic lens. 🙂
In this space, scientific data isn't some absolute, untouchable truth, and subjective values within one's own internal compass carry a lot of weight—not to mention those experiential insights into the beyond, that whole realm of existence you don't even acknowledge...
Under these circumstances, it’s hard to have a real conversation with someone like gentlemaker6; it’s kind of like trying to discuss literature with a kid who has barely mastered the alphabet but hasn't quite tackled Dostoevsky yet. 😉 And I say that strictly in terms of understanding that we all exist on different levels of consciousness, where no one is inherently better or worse than anyone else, we're just simply where we are right now... much like how you wouldn't—and shouldn't—compare the intellect of a third grader to an eighth grader back in middle school. I hope you follow my drift... 🙂

Look, Anna—spirituality isn't built on what you already know. It’s about everything else. Think of it like standing way up in the branches of a massive oak tree. You're high up, gripping the limbs tight, peering through the leaves with that kind of wide-eyed curiosity a kid has. You reach out into the void, just letting your hands wander into the endless space, dreaming, discovering, and getting lost in the philosophy of it all. To It’s what makes us a superior species, really. We’ve moved past just surviving and chasing basic biological urges; now, we actually sit around and think about ourselves. We’re essentially just little fragments of the universe that have somehow gained the ability to go looking for our own purpose. To me, that’s exactly what spirituality is.

Spirituality isn't about playing games or lying to yourself by pretending that ATP doesn't drive everything we do. It’s not some primitive obsession with lucky charms or acting like a scared kid hiding from monsters under the bed, trying to ward off bad vibes with incense and "sacred symbols." That's not it.
Spirituality isn't about ignoring the facts you already know. It’s not just about sawing off the branch you're sitting on; it’s more like planting dynamite in the trunk of the tree itself. 🤷

How are you supposed to build anything if you can't find a single foundation that actually holds up? It’s a total deadlock. Even Descartes went through that whole phase where he tossed everything out, stripped away every certainty he had, only to realize eventually that there was still a bedrock underneath it all.
"Everything is fine, everything is possible"—give me a break. That isn't spirituality; it’s just intellectual anarchy. I can see that gentlemaker6 is actually getting a kick out of it, too—thriving in this chaotic, messy headspace where everything is supposedly "one" and nothing has any individual distinction. Honestly, that’s just peddling cult ideology. It’s nowhere near actual intellectual depth. If you believe that, you aren't even free. I’ve run into some of the most dogmatic types on this entire forum during my time on the Spirituality board, and let me tell you, the hypocrisy is thicker than you could imagine.

I’m just going to keep my mouth shut from here on out. If I say anything else, people are inevitably going to start accusing me of being some troll just looking for trouble. Honestly, all I’m doing is asking questions about the same stuff you are.
When I start questioning someone's rigid dogmas—those little echo chambers where people peddle their views like they’re some kind of holy gospel that can't be touched—it’s always treated like an act of war. It’s funny, really. They wrap themselves in these lofty labels like "The Truth" or "freedom of thought," but it’s pure hypocrisy. If you dare to poke a hole in their carefully constructed reality, suddenly you aren't just a skeptic; you're the enemy. It's the exact same playbook used by those fringe cults you see in documentaries, just dressed up in much more polite language.

placidjackal36 said:Sometimes I’m agnostic, sometimes I’m an atheist, and sometimes I’m a believer. For certain things, I believe simply because they can't be proven. When it comes to nonsense that flies in the face of hard facts, I'm a staunch atheist—or even an antitheist, if we're using your definition of the term, which seems more concerned with supernatural entities than what I'm actually talking about.

Life is created by energy-rich chemical compounds? Everyone laughed. 😂😂😂

If you aren't interested in what I'm writing, then stop replying to my posts.

Yes, life is driven by energy-rich compounds. You honestly think this is just my little invention?
What about the massive teams of researchers who have dedicated their lives to this? What about the millions of people every day who validate these discoveries?
Have you ever actually looked into physiology? People have spent lifetimes studying how a human being functions. They’ve run experiments. They’ve measured the intake and output of mass, calculated how much energy a single unit of a nutrient provides through complete oxidation versus what's actually utilized when someone eats, and then mapped out the metabolic utility of specific parts: muscle, brain, and so on. They’ve tracked oxygen intake and expiration during rest, during study, or while running.
They’ve analyzed bodily fluids using every method under the sun, put subjects through X-rays and NMR, and monitored brain activity via EEG and heart rhythms via EKG.

We know exactly why a person lives and why they die. We understand our own structure down to the histological details. We know what powers a cell—the breakdown of substances and their fusion with oxygen in the mitochondria to produce the ATP that drives everything else.
We know how the kidneys filter waste and exactly how much energy that process requires.
We know why a heart can keep beating even when the brain is effectively dead. We know where emotions reside and where memories are stored.
We know where the center of balance is, and why a person panics when their airway is obstructed.
We know why it hurts when you get hit. We know why the smell of smoke or the sound of a firecracker can trigger a panic attack. We know why a mother's breast produces milk the moment a newborn latches.
We know what reflexes are.

A human being is such a beautifully complex organism that you’re essentially dragging its incredible sophistication through the mud by denying it. You deny it in almost every single post you make. Honestly, it gets under my skin.

I guess it would be best if I just started reading books on physics, chemistry, and stuff like that. Apparently, that's the only way to be considered smart. Everything else is worthless. Maybe I should just toss all other books onto a bonfire. They probably just serve to make people stupid anyway. The most important thing is knowing which chemical substance my brain or some gland is secreting in a given situation. Bravo. You've solved many of life's essential mysteries with that one statement.😁

Look, you really ought to start reading more. You need to take a closer look at the very things you’re dismissing just because you refuse to acknowledge how complex they actually are. I never said things like the meaning of life were "stupid." But you know what is stupid? Denying the actual facts of life, which is exactly what you're doing right now.

Where on earth did you get the notion that I think nothing else has value? Is *Anna Karenina* garbage just because it isn't chemistry? Is Bach’s Third Suite worthless simply because it isn't physics?
Where are you even pulling these delusions from?

And where does this idea come from—that explaining a phenomenon somehow strips away its beauty? According to your logic, something is only beautiful if you’re too ignorant to understand how it works?
Is a night sky outside a major US city suddenly trash and stripped of its wonder just because we know it isn't some mystical shell of dots controlling our behavior, but rather a massive expanse of gas and plasma fusing elements?
Why would it be?

By your reasoning, does understanding how sound waves propagate through metal and air somehow degrade the raw, visceral terror felt when someone strikes a memorial bell in a quiet town square?

Man, what is wrong with you? Seriously, what is actually going on in your head?

I didn't suspect you were merely blowing with the wind.

Yes, life is created by energy-rich compounds. Do you honestly think this is my invention?
What about the massive collective of scientists who worked on this? What about the millions of people who validate these discoveries every single day?
Have you even heard of physiology? People have studied how a human functions. They have experimented on us. They have measured nutrient intake versus output, calculated how much energy a unit of mass provides through complete oxidation during combustion compared to ingestion, and determined human metabolic utility—including the specific needs of muscle and brain tissue. They've tracked oxygen intake and expiration during rest, learning, and running.
They have analyzed bodily fluids through every possible method, subjected subjects to X-rays and NMR, and monitored brain activity via EEG and heart function via EKG.

We know why a person lives and why they die. We understand our structure down to the histological details. We know what powers a cell—the breakdown of substances and their bonding with oxygen in the mitochondria to produce ATP, which fuels the rest of the body.
We know how the kidneys filter waste and exactly how much energy that process requires.
We know why a heart can beat even when the brain is effectively dead. We know where emotions reside and where memories are stored.
We know where the center of balance is, and why a person panics when their airway is obstructed.
We know why it hurts when you get hit. We know why the smell of smoke or the sound of a firecracker can trigger a panic attack. We know why a breast produces milk when a newborn latches.
We know what reflexes are.

A human being is such a beautifully complex creature, yet you profane its magnificent sublimity by tossing it into the mud through your denial. You deny it in almost every single post. Honestly, it makes my blood boil.

You wrote a lovely description of human physiological functioning. Especially that line: "A human being is such a beautifully complex creature"—on that, I agree with you completely.

But you missed the mark entirely on your tone. You missed the point of the message. You've misrepresented my position. And above all, you've missed the very essence of what gives us life.

First off, I celebrate human sublimity, whereas you attempt to degrade it. You reduce a person to a mere heap of chemical processes. To physiology (you don't need to believe me, but I certainly know what physiology is). Yet, a human is incomparably more than that. In your view, a person is a biological machine (a beautiful and complex one), but I contend there is so much more. All that chemistry, physics, physiology, and every organ and system—as perfect as they truly are—serve merely as the perfect vehicle for the soul, which is our true identity. The physical body is our coarsest vibration. The soul is incomparably finer. The physical body is the smallest part of us; the soul is infinitely greater. It is the soul that breathes life into the human body, not the other way around. And through the spirit, through the very thing that animates us, we are all one, because we are crafted from the same substance: Divine Love.

Energy-rich compounds don't create life. They don't give life. They merely sustain it. Much like air, water, food, a beautiful view, good company, love, or the ocean. Life is generated by the spirit; the spirit maintains life, and when the spirit departs, life ceases.

Honestly, you really ought to start reading. You should take a closer look at what you’re dismissing by ignoring such complexity. I never suggested that things like the meaning of life are nonsense. However, denying the fundamental facts of existence is foolishness, and that is precisely what you are doing.

Where on earth did you get the notion that I believe nothing else holds value? Is *Anna Karenina* garbage just because it isn't chemistry? Is Bach’s Third Suite worthless because it isn't physics?
Where are these delusions coming from?

And where does this idea come from—that explaining a phenomenon somehow destroys its beauty? Do you believe something is only beautiful if you remain completely ignorant of how it works?
Is the night sky outside a major US city suddenly meaningless, and stripped of that sense of awe, simply because we know it isn't a patterned shell dictating behavior, but rather a vast expanse of gas and plasma fusing elements?
Why would it be?

By your logic, does understanding how sound waves propagate through metal and air somehow degrade the raw terror felt when a hammer strikes a memorial bell in Hiroshima?

Man, what is wrong with you? Honestly, what is your problem?

Thank God, you think you see beyond a formula. Well, since you claim to see so much, perhaps you could realize how misplaced your assessment is. I am not denying the facts of life; I am denying that life originates from energy-rich compounds. You have to laugh.

I have nothing against science. Science has driven progress throughout history. It has answered countless questions, debunked myths, and corrected our course. We all rely on its discoveries every single day. So, I am not against it. But I am against your attitude toward the spirit, the soul, and the essence of what makes life possible. Actually, let me rephrase: I don't care what you believe. Believe whatever you want. Just don't attack me based on your own limitations, demanding evidence for things that the global scientific community hasn't even found yet. I have told you several times that these truths exist and are part of a future era. The fact that science hasn't proven the existence of a soul doesn't mean it isn't there; it just means science hasn't proven it yet. That is all. And that is hardly an argument. In my reflections, I am not bound by such restrictions or religious dogmas—only by common sense, deep spiritual insight, and lived experience.

Every day, I celebrate this life—its perfection, its beauty, its richness, and its diversity. I truly have no idea where you gathered these absurdities. I actually started a thread specifically on this topic. I perceive life as such, regardless of outward indicators. I am not limited by anything. Nor do I believe that explaining a phenomenon diminishes its beauty. You have gone far too far putting words in my mouth.

I can repeat my question: Man, what is wrong with you? Seriously, what is your problem?

placidjackal36 said:Sometimes I’m agnostic, sometimes I’m an atheist, and sometimes I’m a believer. For certain things, I believe simply because they can't be proven. When it comes to nonsense that flies in the face of hard facts, I'm a staunch atheist—or even an antitheist, if we're using your definition of the term, which seems more concerned with supernatural entities than what I'm actually talking about.

Life is created by energy-rich chemical compounds? Everyone laughed. 😂😂😂

If you aren't interested in what I'm writing, then stop replying to my posts.

Yes, life is driven by energy-rich compounds. You honestly think this is just my little invention?
What about the massive teams of researchers who have dedicated their lives to this? What about the millions of people every day who validate these discoveries?
Have you ever actually looked into physiology? People have spent lifetimes studying how a human being functions. They’ve run experiments. They’ve measured the intake and output of mass, calculated how much energy a single unit of a nutrient provides through complete oxidation versus what's actually utilized when someone eats, and then mapped out the metabolic utility of specific parts: muscle, brain, and so on. They’ve tracked oxygen intake and expiration during rest, during study, or while running.
They’ve analyzed bodily fluids using every method under the sun, put subjects through X-rays and NMR, and monitored brain activity via EEG and heart rhythms via EKG.

We know exactly why a person lives and why they die. We understand our own structure down to the histological details. We know what powers a cell—the breakdown of substances and their fusion with oxygen in the mitochondria to produce the ATP that drives everything else.
We know how the kidneys filter waste and exactly how much energy that process requires.
We know why a heart can keep beating even when the brain is effectively dead. We know where emotions reside and where memories are stored.
We know where the center of balance is, and why a person panics when their airway is obstructed.
We know why it hurts when you get hit. We know why the smell of smoke or the sound of a firecracker can trigger a panic attack. We know why a mother's breast produces milk the moment a newborn latches.
We know what reflexes are.

A human being is such a beautifully complex organism that you’re essentially dragging its incredible sophistication through the mud by denying it. You deny it in almost every single post you make. Honestly, it gets under my skin.

I guess it would be best if I just started reading books on physics, chemistry, and stuff like that. Apparently, that's the only way to be considered smart. Everything else is worthless. Maybe I should just toss all other books onto a bonfire. They probably just serve to make people stupid anyway. The most important thing is knowing which chemical substance my brain or some gland is secreting in a given situation. Bravo. You've solved many of life's essential mysteries with that one statement.😁

Look, you really ought to start reading more. You need to take a closer look at the very things you’re dismissing just because you refuse to acknowledge how complex they actually are. I never said things like the meaning of life were "stupid." But you know what is stupid? Denying the actual facts of life, which is exactly what you're doing right now.

Where on earth did you get the notion that I think nothing else has value? Is *Anna Karenina* garbage just because it isn't chemistry? Is Bach’s Third Suite worthless simply because it isn't physics?
Where are you even pulling these delusions from?

And where does this idea come from—that explaining a phenomenon somehow strips away its beauty? According to your logic, something is only beautiful if you’re too ignorant to understand how it works?
Is a night sky outside a major US city suddenly trash and stripped of its wonder just because we know it isn't some mystical shell of dots controlling our behavior, but rather a massive expanse of gas and plasma fusing elements?
Why would it be?

By your reasoning, does understanding how sound waves propagate through metal and air somehow degrade the raw, visceral terror felt when someone strikes a memorial bell in a quiet town square?

Man, what is wrong with you? Seriously, what is actually going on in your head?

Everything is good and everything is possible. That has nothing to do with intellectual anarchy; it stems from a profound understanding of our essence and the entirety of creation. That is what spirituality is.

Once again, you are throwing around misconceptions about me, projecting your own ideas onto my views. I have told you several times: this universe is in perfect order. There is no chaos. That is merely a construct of your own making. Furthermore, while everything is fundamentally one within the cosmos, it remains distinct in form—much like how a porcelain teacup and a porcelain saucer share the same material composition.

Your claim that nothing is unique is quite a blunder. Throughout human history, no two snowflakes have ever fallen the same way, nor have two leaves grown identically on a tree or two flowers bloomed exactly alike. My soul—the core of who I am—is unique in all of human history, stretching until the end of time. Your soul, who you are, is equally unique in the entire span of history. This applies to everyone. There has never been another version of you in all of existence, nor will there ever be, regardless of whether this universe lasts for trillions upon trillions of years. We are all unique. Every single one of us.

So, what exactly are you talking about? What "cult" are you referencing? You're just being a troll.

placidjackal36 said:I’m pretty sure I’m made up of at least a thousand particles that were once part of Spartan. 🙂

Look, Anna—spirituality isn't built on what you already know. It’s about everything else. Think of it like standing way up in the branches of a massive oak tree. You're high up, gripping the limbs tight, peering through the leaves with that kind of wide-eyed curiosity a kid has. You reach out into the void, just letting your hands wander into the endless space, dreaming, discovering, and getting lost in the philosophy of it all. To It’s what makes us a superior species, really. We’ve moved past just surviving and chasing basic biological urges; now, we actually sit around and think about ourselves. We’re essentially just little fragments of the universe that have somehow gained the ability to go looking for our own purpose. To me, that’s exactly what spirituality is.

Spirituality isn't about playing games or lying to yourself by pretending that ATP doesn't drive everything we do. It’s not some primitive obsession with lucky charms or acting like a scared kid hiding from monsters under the bed, trying to ward off bad vibes with incense and "sacred symbols." That's not it.
Spirituality isn't about ignoring the facts you already know. It’s not just about sawing off the branch you're sitting on; it’s more like planting dynamite in the trunk of the tree itself. 🤷

How are you supposed to build anything if you can't find a single foundation that actually holds up? It’s a total deadlock. Even Descartes went through that whole phase where he tossed everything out, stripped away every certainty he had, only to realize eventually that there was still a bedrock underneath it all.
"Everything is fine, everything is possible"—give me a break. That isn't spirituality; it’s just intellectual anarchy. I can see that gentlemaker6 is actually getting a kick out of it, too—thriving in this chaotic, messy headspace where everything is supposedly "one" and nothing has any individual distinction. Honestly, that’s just peddling cult ideology. It’s nowhere near actual intellectual depth. If you believe that, you aren't even free. I’ve run into some of the most dogmatic types on this entire forum during my time on the Spirituality board, and let me tell you, the hypocrisy is thicker than you could imagine.

I’m just going to keep my mouth shut from here on out. If I say anything else, people are inevitably going to start accusing me of being some troll just looking for trouble. Honestly, all I’m doing is asking questions about the same stuff you are.
When I start questioning someone's rigid dogmas—those little echo chambers where people peddle their views like they’re some kind of holy gospel that can't be touched—it’s always treated like an act of war. It’s funny, really. They wrap themselves in these lofty labels like "The Truth" or "freedom of thought," but it’s pure hypocrisy. If you dare to poke a hole in their carefully constructed reality, suddenly you aren't just a skeptic; you're the enemy. It's the exact same playbook used by those fringe cults you see in documentaries, just dressed up in much more polite language.

As the "infamous" Crowley once put it:

"The Method of science — The aim of religion."

gentlemaker6 said:I am not looking for someone to blame. My point is about action—specifically, the need to shift our collective consciousness and how we approach everything. This isn't just for a select few; it requires everyone to step up, regardless of their status or background. Only through that kind of internal shift will we see genuine external change that benefits us all.

Ecology is merely one piece of the puzzle—it's an effect. My focus remains on the underlying causes.

I don't get this whole ecology thing you're preaching, and I have no clue what kind of "action" you're suggesting or what you think the causes even are.
this is just an old post of mine ripped out of context, but it touches on the causes and stuff... etc... and I am proposing a solution.

Morgan Hernandez5 said:....how do you think the mind got detached from nature? It's still part of nature, obviously, but certain parts of the mind just aren't functioning right anymore. Like if you put bad fuel in a car engine, it starts running all wonky :-) (that's my materialistic answer linked to the id, or subconscious—classic psychoanalysis).
Everything is totally out of whack. Materialism is taking over. Money has become the goal instead of just a tool. There's zero balance, which is why nothing works right anymore. We live in this hyper-mechanical, Descartes-style, competitive, "masculine" (yang) mindset, while the intuitive, wise, "feminine" (yin) side that's actually in sync with nature is getting pushed aside. It’s no wonder we see movements like hippie culture, feminism, or environmentalism popping up—it's all because we desperately need that balance back. Now, Western society is starting to soak up Eastern philosophies, religions, meditation... alternative medicine, acupuncture, homeopathy... feng shui... you name it.
Take Buddhism, for instance. It’s basically just a psychological religion that points out why people suffer and feel frustrated, so why else do you think it’s blowing up in America lately? Christianity doesn't focus on the individual psyche nearly as much as Buddhism does.
Even Christianity is slowly—slowly, anyway—starting to embrace those Eastern "mystical" experiences through meditation and by turning more toward the individual.
Environmental awareness isn't going to grow until we start blending our rational knowledge with that non-linear, natural intuition of our surroundings. Basically, when we can finally balance intellectual power and scientific tech with wisdom and spirituality.
I think even medicine is starting to shift. It doesn't seem quite as reductionist as other sciences; a holistic approach is already creeping in, and they're starting to accept some Eastern healing methods.
Maybe it's too late, maybe it's not. Whatever. Civilizations existed before us, with all their rises and falls. So why shouldn't history just repeat itself?

No, he just doesn't get it. He hasn't grasped a single thing I’ve put down, and honestly, I’m done trying to explain myself. That whole situation is just weighing on me too much.

placidjackal36 said:No, he just doesn't get it. He hasn't grasped a single thing I’ve put down, and honestly, I’m done trying to explain myself. That whole situation is just weighing on me too much.

Indeed, he truly doesn't understand.

placidjackal36 said:Sometimes I’m agnostic, sometimes I’m an atheist, and sometimes I’m a believer. For certain things, I believe simply because they can't be proven. When it comes to nonsense that flies in the face of hard facts, I'm a staunch atheist—or even an antitheist, if we're using your definition of the term, which seems more concerned with supernatural entities than what I'm actually talking about.

Life is created by energy-rich chemical compounds? Everyone laughed. 😂😂😂

If you aren't interested in what I'm writing, then stop replying to my posts.

Yes, life is driven by energy-rich compounds. You honestly think this is just my little invention?
What about the massive teams of researchers who have dedicated their lives to this? What about the millions of people every day who validate these discoveries?
Have you ever actually looked into physiology? People have spent lifetimes studying how a human being functions. They’ve run experiments. They’ve measured the intake and output of mass, calculated how much energy a single unit of a nutrient provides through complete oxidation versus what's actually utilized when someone eats, and then mapped out the metabolic utility of specific parts: muscle, brain, and so on. They’ve tracked oxygen intake and expiration during rest, during study, or while running.
They’ve analyzed bodily fluids using every method under the sun, put subjects through X-rays and NMR, and monitored brain activity via EEG and heart rhythms via EKG.

We know exactly why a person lives and why they die. We understand our own structure down to the histological details. We know what powers a cell—the breakdown of substances and their fusion with oxygen in the mitochondria to produce the ATP that drives everything else.
We know how the kidneys filter waste and exactly how much energy that process requires.
We know why a heart can keep beating even when the brain is effectively dead. We know where emotions reside and where memories are stored.
We know where the center of balance is, and why a person panics when their airway is obstructed.
We know why it hurts when you get hit. We know why the smell of smoke or the sound of a firecracker can trigger a panic attack. We know why a mother's breast produces milk the moment a newborn latches.
We know what reflexes are.

A human being is such a beautifully complex organism that you’re essentially dragging its incredible sophistication through the mud by denying it. You deny it in almost every single post you make. Honestly, it gets under my skin.

I guess it would be best if I just started reading books on physics, chemistry, and stuff like that. Apparently, that's the only way to be considered smart. Everything else is worthless. Maybe I should just toss all other books onto a bonfire. They probably just serve to make people stupid anyway. The most important thing is knowing which chemical substance my brain or some gland is secreting in a given situation. Bravo. You've solved many of life's essential mysteries with that one statement.😁

Look, you really ought to start reading more. You need to take a closer look at the very things you’re dismissing just because you refuse to acknowledge how complex they actually are. I never said things like the meaning of life were "stupid." But you know what is stupid? Denying the actual facts of life, which is exactly what you're doing right now.

Where on earth did you get the notion that I think nothing else has value? Is *Anna Karenina* garbage just because it isn't chemistry? Is Bach’s Third Suite worthless simply because it isn't physics?
Where are you even pulling these delusions from?

And where does this idea come from—that explaining a phenomenon somehow strips away its beauty? According to your logic, something is only beautiful if you’re too ignorant to understand how it works?
Is a night sky outside a major US city suddenly trash and stripped of its wonder just because we know it isn't some mystical shell of dots controlling our behavior, but rather a massive expanse of gas and plasma fusing elements?
Why would it be?

By your reasoning, does understanding how sound waves propagate through metal and air somehow degrade the raw, visceral terror felt when someone strikes a memorial bell in a quiet town square?

Man, what is wrong with you? Seriously, what is actually going on in your head?

Hey placidjackal36, I really respect how committed you are to explaining life through a scientific lens. That said, there's plenty of stuff online that seems to trip up those scientific explanations. For instance, I came across info about people claiming to live off light—basically surviving on prana. I'd love to hear what you think about that.

Ryan Wilson2 said:Look out that same window and you will see that death is ever-present. Every single life form eventually ends, or survives by ending another. Death is the true universal constant that binds us all together. Does that necessarily mean we are obligated to celebrate Death?

I don't think death is the opposite of life at all.
Birth is just the starting line, and death is when this specific body stops working.
But life itself? That's eternal. It can't be destroyed.
The physical body is mortal, sure, but neither is life nor the soul.
Maybe death is only the opposite of being born.
The truth is, we've existed forever—long before we ever took shape in this particular body.
I guess some people just aren't aware of that, so they just lean on whatever everyone else tells them.
Some folks put their faith in priests, others in scientists, and some in just about anything else...
It really just comes down to what an individual chooses to believe.😁

Morgan Hernandez5 said:I don't get this whole ecology thing you're preaching, and I have no clue what kind of "action" you're suggesting or what you think the causes even are.
this is just an old post of mine ripped out of context, but it touches on the causes and stuff... etc... and I am proposing a solution.

The mention of ecology was simply part of answering a specific question.

What I am actually discussing is a new way of perceiving spirituality—the realization that we are all interconnected. If this understanding reaches the masses, it would fundamentally transform the state of our world almost overnight. That is the "action" I am proposing.

God is life itself and encompasses everything within it. Therefore, God has no needs, because God is and possesses everything imaginable. This means there is nothing we need to perform to satisfy some insatiable deity. There are no commandments, no labels, no sins, no punishments, and certainly no hellish nonsense. There is no separation. Consequently, our task is simply to look inward, toward the presence of God within ourselves, and tap into that.

God exists to serve us, not the other way around.

The root cause of our current global situation lies in organized religion and its doctrines regarding God and humanity. The solution lies in what I have described here. You’ve noticed positive shifts occurring, and they truly are happening—slowly but surely. I am not the architect of this idea; it is a concept gaining traction globally, and one day, it will become the foundation of how we live.