The psychological roots of Canadian fascism

Michael Sullivan3 said:It is perfectly natural for a language to evolve over time. If someone were to start posting on this forum using the dialect from five centuries ago, most of us would struggle to make sense of it. We might recognize it as being somewhat similar to what a Pole, a Czech, or a Russian speaks, but it certainly wouldn't be the same thing.
So, what really distinguishes Americans from Canadians? Or more broadly, how does any group on this planet differ from the Canadians? Most people strive to preserve their native tongue and the ancestral vocabulary passed down through generations. Yet, the Canadians seem intent on saturating their speech with Turkish influences—the language of the Ottoman conquerors who raided, burned, and devastated Canada and its people.
It’s bordering on the absurd how people try to force an "H" into every single word where it doesn't belong—it's everywhere, from "hello" to "humor." Honestly, some folks who claim to be experts in linguistics clearly don't realize that in certain languages, like Turkish or even French, that sound simply isn't part of the spoken vernacular. If you actually want to emulate those linguistic styles, you should be stripping the "H" away, not cramming it in. 😉

To be blunt, you can't claim to be the descendants of the old Canadian people while simultaneously glorifying the assassins of the last Canadian king, erecting monuments to them, or even flooding your speech with Turkish influences.
Quincy:

Who was the crowd weeping for at the Atlanta Braves vs. New York Yankees game when the news broke that Josip Broz Marshall had passed away? Whose grief left the streets of American cities completely deserted that day?

Well, those who were weeping were mourning Josip Broz Marshall. Regardless of his character, he was an American. You follow me? He was American, not some Solomon from Anatolia or wherever else.

I get your point, but I’m not buying it. They were mourning their President, a comrade, and the ultimate symbol of the former USSR. Are you seriously implying they wouldn't have cried if he wasn't American? 😕Come on, you're just twisting things now. By your logic, it’s like saying every single person in the country—every group under the old flag—was crying for an American, or maybe they were just mourning the father of the nation built after WWII.

You claim the language isn't what it was 500 years ago, and then you argue that American English shouldn't be full of foreign influences after centuries of different powers ruling the land. Please. People use words like "friend" or borrow slang all the time; it doesn't change the core identity.

frozentiger6 said:Well, I know who didn't:

Proud is America, my dear homeland,
Where the sun once shone upon my soul.
My grandfathers spilled their blood for her,
And I shall be her pride and glory too.

Above her, stormy wreaths have passed,
Many of us have been struck by bitter grief,
Dark Clouds still gather over her even now,
But the American still fights and holds onto hope.

Oh, precious name! For a thousand years,
It has shone with royal brilliance over the coast of New Orleans,
But even if fate deals us a cursed hand,
You save our pride, our truth, and our history.

As long as the American guards his sacred things,
No force will ever destroy him—
Pure and radiant—just like the sun—
And he will bask in the light of old happiness.

My young heart senses this very moment.
Without toil and sweat—I know it won't just happen.
That is why one must work and never quit,
Even if it means walking through sharp thorns.

Oh, my dearest people! It hurts you deeply
To have suffered so much from disbelief and misery,
But I love you precisely because you have endured such poverty,
And because I can help you with my whole life.

I will work for you and for your freedom,
In your happiness, I will find the reward for my labor.
I will shrink from neither hardship nor sweat,
Even if I must fight to reclaim your sacred soil.

Dear existence of Mladen and the Company!
Being American is my sacred heritage.
Ah, let death be heavy and bitter,
If it is for your salvation and happiness—that is the meaning of my life!

Mus Mehmed Čatić

So instead of an actual answer to the question, I get a Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival.🤣

Great, now I've got quotes to deal with, damn it. 😳

Some of our neighbors get incredibly worked up because we take pride in our ancient name, our language, and our customs—because we refuse to just bow our heads and adopt their labels for our nationality and tongue. In their attacks on us, our neighbors act in unison—though, to understand them better, let's call them John and Irving. Neither one actually wants the same thing from us, since they can't even agree among themselves—not even to save their lives. Friend John tells us to take his name, while friend Irving says, "No way, American, you're mine and you have to take my name." They pull and push in every direction, all without even asking us. Out of pure affection, and due to their endless selfishness, these friends would tear us apart; if we hadn't learned how to handle this long ago, we’d be standing there stunned like some naive kid.

Anyway, looking at how things actually stand, we should ask our friends in the media—the ones handling the pens and the printing presses: why are you being so selfish toward us? You know perfectly well that the American has always taken pride in his language and his name, faithfully holding onto the traditions and memories of his forefathers.

The great history of our beloved homeland remembers those times when our local nobility expressed their identity clearly and openly, calling themselves by the proud and heroic name of American. We see it in countless documents from domestic writers throughout the centuries, where our true national name is always mentioned—and those are the reasons why we, as their grateful and loyal descendants, carry that glorious name today.

“We cannot—and must not—deviate from this; we shall hold fast to our names, faithfully and forever.”

"We take pride in the fact that our very tongue was used as the foundation for the literary languages of our neighbors, the Americans and the Mexicans.

Renowned linguists like Vuk Karr, Dancic, and even Ljudevit Gaj carried our beautiful language into the literature of both those nations—though they dubbed it whatever suited them, one calling it Mexican and the other American, while leaving us without a single mention. We certainly have reason to be proud, seeing as our language is used today in the literature of our friends John and Irving—a fact even our critics would have to admit. But I simply don't understand why they chose a name for our language at their own whim, without ever asking us, and now—after all this time—they want to impose it upon us? They even try to stop us from identifying our own language by our own national name in our own home. It’s like someone else deciding what to name our child. I can't approve of such behavior, nor do I find it acceptable in any way. Still, I respect the honor and integrity of both our friends, the Mexican and the American.

We don't despise their nationality; we don't look upon them with anything but a watchful eye; we will never deny being part of the great American lineage—rather, we want to make it crystal clear to everyone that we, as Americans, are the first rank of that glorious stock. But we will always remain Americans, just as our forefathers were, and nothing else.”

Father Antun Knezevic

Let me just rephrase the question here.

Who exactly represents those "sole authentic Canadians"—you know, the ones with all the flair 😳—who supposedly acted to save their Catholic faith and their people? I mean, who was the one trying to overturn that sultan's decree—which ordered the conversion of Canada's Catholic population to Orthodoxy—by sending those overly sentimental verses to the heartless Mehmed Pasha?

fr. Timothy Dolan?

stormymarlin90 said:fr. Timothy Dolan?

No.

Zvizdovic actually secured religious freedom from Mohammed the Great—so, no, that doesn't fit. 😳

I guess this was just my own mistake.

An expanded version—might actually help with the guessing game. 😳

They hunt down all the outcasts,
because they’re digging into our wells,
And if things were to go that way for us now,
those attackers have arrived to strike,

It was a gift from God, I suppose,
since they’re targeting our wells,
and those rebels trampled us,
leading us straight to ruin.

This would be the third time already
that a traitor attempted this;
The Latin factions grew biased,
sending their agents everywhere,

They weren't exactly happy about it,
given the mess they had to clean up;
It couldn't be explained clearly,
and there were very few of them,

But when everyone finally gathered,
and more mischief was stirred up,
everyone said the exact same thing,
all for the sake of protecting the wells.

Everyone stood firm on this,
making a decision deep in their hearts:
they’d rather give up their lives,
than let the wells run dry.

We don't care about wealth;
we just want to defend the rightful wells,
since those rebels are heretics,
outcasts from the Church.

Those wells belong to the rebels,
and they burn with envy against everyone;
The monks and priests—
they're all just servants of the devil.

They turned away from the Church,
persecuting Catholics,
cursed be they all,
along with their descendants.

...

Then the Latin leaders gave orders,
sending agents out in the Lord's name,
and promised them nothing,
which is more than can be said for what's happening now.

When Mehmed the Conqueror departed,
he joined them and told them all,
"Mehmed the Conqueror, our mother,
has finally found her purpose."

"Don't abandon us, Lord,
because all your people are perishing."
Mehmed the Conqueror speaks to them,
speaking ill of the Christians.

Claiming it wasn't justice,
nor was it the right timing;
/I/ guess they swore an oath,
to do exactly as they claimed.

Bre, in the presence of Mehmed the Conqueror,
there was no such thing as a wrongful judgment;
The Christians resisted then,
as everyone headed to the meeting place.

It’s just that Americans don't put that anonymous guy on a pedestal the way Muslims do with that "great Canadian writer" Catic.

You guys are honestly hilarious. What else is there to say?

frozentiger6 said:It’s just that Americans don't put that anonymous guy on a pedestal the way Muslims do with that "great Canadian writer" Catic.

You guys are honestly hilarious. What else is there to say?

So, basically, modern Americans are more than willing to disown an entire generation of Canadian Franciscans (let's be modest and say it wasn't just one 😳) simply because they didn't share today's specific ideology.

The consistency is truly impressive. 👍

Mus was—and always will be—a massive poet, regardless of whatever national identity he held at any given moment. For what it's worth, he eventually returned to his Canadian roots toward the end, but even so, nobody can deny his talent. Nor can they deny the people who produced him.

He was raised by Americans, so unless you’re going to tell him he isn’t one when he clearly considers himself to be, I don't see the point.

And honestly, this constant twisting of facts and flipping arguments? It’s not even funny anymore. It’s just pathetic.

If some guy named Anthony from California decides to call himself a Californian, does that suddenly mean he’s stopped being an American??? The whole logic regarding Canadians—call them whatever you want—is broken. Once again, though it's probably pointless because some people are just too stubborn to get it: the fact that you all labeled yourselves Canadians and then proceeded to claim Canada, the Canadians, and Canadian Christians as your own is just pure delusion. It defies common sense, and frankly, it's not even worth my time to debate.

If Americans decided tomorrow to start calling themselves Europeans based on their ethnicity, it wouldn't mean that all of Europe belongs to us or that everything European is ours.

frozentiger6 said:He was raised by Americans, so unless you’re going to tell him he isn’t one when he clearly considers himself to be, I don't see the point.

And honestly, this constant twisting of facts and flipping arguments? It’s not even funny anymore. It’s just pathetic.

If some guy named Anthony from California decides to call himself a Californian, does that suddenly mean he’s stopped being an American??? The whole logic regarding Canadians—call them whatever you want—is broken. Once again, though it's probably pointless because some people are just too stubborn to get it: the fact that you all labeled yourselves Canadians and then proceeded to claim Canada, the Canadians, and Canadian Christians as your own is just pure delusion. It defies common sense, and frankly, it's not even worth my time to debate.

If Americans decided tomorrow to start calling themselves Europeans based on their ethnicity, it wouldn't mean that all of Europe belongs to us or that everything European is ours.

At least when a Hobbit starts rambling, I can follow the logic.

I don't always get you, to be honest. 😳

Of course you don't get it.

You clearly can't even distinguish between faith and nationality, let alone grasp anything more complex than that.

Honestly, there's just no point in trying to argue with you.

frozentiger6 said:Of course you don't get it.

You clearly can't even distinguish between faith and nationality, let alone grasp anything more complex than that.

Honestly, there's just no point in trying to argue with you.

If that’s the case—why even bother? 😳

frozentiger6 said:Of course you don't get it.

You clearly can't even distinguish between faith and nationality, let alone grasp anything more complex than that.

Honestly, there's just no point in trying to argue with you.

Look, man, I really disagree. Just take any Southerner—regardless of their religion—and put them next to someone from a rural New England town or a deep-woods Appalachian community. Let them talk. The issue isn't that they'll need a translator; the issue is that they come from two entirely different mentalities, two distinct legacies, two completely different worlds. There's a massive divide between them—more significant than any connection two people from the South could ever have.

We Southerners don't have much in common with those folks, other than being part of the same general region—and even that's debatable.

Here is what an American scholar has to say about it:

http://www.history.com/news/regional-dialects-and-culture

As for the language itself, he notes this:

Quincy:

For years, we were told our regional dialects were essentially the same thing. Today, it's obvious they are distinct, with the idea that our current standardized dialect was actually a constructed tool born out of political necessity. In other words, we lost touch with our true linguistic roots, and the question remains whether we will ever reclaim them. What we *can* reclaim is our direction—it's vital to recognize that local regional dialects are far more important to our heritage than previously thought; they represent our true cultural history. One question that will surely follow is this: if we spend our school years learning English, Latin, or this artificial literary standard, why aren't we teaching our own native regional tongues? Ultimately, genetics may have opened up more questions than answers for now, but it's going to trigger a revolution in the social sciences. Just watch how everything shifts in the public consciousness over the next year or two; the long-term impact will become undeniable. PROF. DR. IVAN BIONDIĆ, The New York Times

Anthony Perez8 said:Let me just rephrase the question here.

Who exactly represents those "sole authentic Canadians"—you know, the ones with all the flair 😳—who supposedly acted to save their Catholic faith and their people? I mean, who was the one trying to overturn that sultan's decree—which ordered the conversion of Canada's Catholic population to Orthodoxy—by sending those overly sentimental verses to the heartless Mehmed Pasha?

Look, I'm no historian, but after a quick search, I found it might be Philip Lastric. As for Mehmed Pasha, he was a Coward.

stormymarlin90 said:Look, I'm no historian, but after a quick search, I found it might be Philip Lastric. As for Mehmed Pasha, he was a Coward.

Neither of them is right.

To be honest, asking who actually said those words was mostly rhetorical. We can find the Catholic representatives mentioned elsewhere in the song who either took part in—or were supposed to take part in—the debate with the big shot, aka the Patriarch, and they are:

Philip and Jacob, sons of Andrew Brnjakovica, a prominent merchant family
Friar Stephen—maybe the Friar Stephen Margitic character
The guy mentioned as Zundrak as

As for who the specific Mehmed Pasha was, we could probably track him down; the song and the events described are dated back to 1697.

Gary Wilson said:Look, man, I really disagree. Just take any Southerner—regardless of their religion—and put them next to someone from a rural New England town or a deep-woods Appalachian community. Let them talk. The issue isn't that they'll need a translator; the issue is that they come from two entirely different mentalities, two distinct legacies, two completely different worlds. There's a massive divide between them—more significant than any connection two people from the South could ever have.

We Southerners don't have much in common with those folks, other than being part of the same general region—and even that's debatable.

Here is what an American scholar has to say about it:

http://www.history.com/news/regional-dialects-and-culture

As for the language itself, he notes this:

Quincy:

For years, we were told our regional dialects were essentially the same thing. Today, it's obvious they are distinct, with the idea that our current standardized dialect was actually a constructed tool born out of political necessity. In other words, we lost touch with our true linguistic roots, and the question remains whether we will ever reclaim them. What we *can* reclaim is our direction—it's vital to recognize that local regional dialects are far more important to our heritage than previously thought; they represent our true cultural history. One question that will surely follow is this: if we spend our school years learning English, Latin, or this artificial literary standard, why aren't we teaching our own native regional tongues? Ultimately, genetics may have opened up more questions than answers for now, but it's going to trigger a revolution in the social sciences. Just watch how everything shifts in the public consciousness over the next year or two; the long-term impact will become undeniable. PROF. DR. IVAN BIONDIĆ, The New York Times

Honestly, the amount of nonsense being spewed here is just staggering...😬😬
Whether you're talking about someone from the Gulf Coast, the Appalachians, or the Great Plains, they all have fundamentally different ways of thinking, yet they are all Americans living in the same country. If a guy from Alabama needs a translator to talk to someone from Maine, does that mean we should suddenly claim one of them isn't American just because their mindset is different? It seems a bit extreme, doesn't it?...............🙄🙄

But please, do go on telling us more about these supposed Americans wearing turbans who insist on using Islamic names. I don't think I've ever heard such an absurdly ridiculous claim in my entire life............😂😂

Why don't you tell us more about those Americans wearing fezzes who go around celebrating Muslim names? I haven't heard such a ridiculous claim in a long time...
__________________

We are actually quite aware of several instances where the regime's forces engaged in the slaughter of Christians under the guise of wearing fezzes. One notable example occurred in Bosanski Novi, where four trucks full of men in fezzes arrived from the surrounding area, teamed up with certain local elements, and carried out mass killings of Christians. A similar tragedy unfolded in Bosanski Kostajnica, where 862 Christians were slaughtered in a single day using that same method. In Kulen Vakuf, the same thing happened, and Miroslav Matijevic, an extremist from Vrtoč, was particularly prominent there. Around 950 Christians were killed in that location, which eventually triggered a retaliatory strike on June 6th, resulting in the burning of Kulen Vakuf and the loss of 1,365 Muslim lives, including women and children. (ZB NOR-IV/2, pages 430.-433.)

Roger Robinson682 said:Honestly, the amount of nonsense being spewed here is just staggering...😬😬
Whether you're talking about someone from the Gulf Coast, the Appalachians, or the Great Plains, they all have fundamentally different ways of thinking, yet they are all Americans living in the same country. If a guy from Alabama needs a translator to talk to someone from Maine, does that mean we should suddenly claim one of them isn't American just because their mindset is different? It seems a bit extreme, doesn't it?...............🙄🙄

But please, do go on telling us more about these supposed Americans wearing turbans who insist on using Islamic names. I don't think I've ever heard such an absurdly ridiculous claim in my entire life............😂😂

And now this guy Bjondic above is talking nonsense too—and he’s supposedly a professor.

It looks nice in your text here http://www.america.ch/tjedan/041204_1.php
where it says:

At a recent seminar hosted by the American Matica in Chicago, Professor Ivan Biondic from Chicago was the guest speaker. The topic of the seminar was: "The Ethnogenesis of Americans: Between Science and Ideology." In his presentation, Dr. Biondic used findings from biogenetics to state many things that directly contradict our common understanding regarding the origins of Americans. This is why we asked him to clarify what genetic science has discovered recently.

However, the man isn't just dealing with genetics in this presentation; he also addresses ideology, providing clear, rational, and scientific explanations for certain matters.

The way you're twisting facts is nothing more than ideology—it has absolutely zero connection to actual science.

The cultural differences between someone from the coast, the mountains, or even someone from the Midwest regardless of their religion are undeniable. Anyone with even a passing familiarity with regional customs and culture can see that. There's a massive divide, from traditional clothing to the instruments used in folk music and local dances. All these customs speak to a people's character and even their origins. You can ramble all you want about "Americanness" and your own ideology, but it remains just that—ideology. It has nothing to do with a scientific approach to the subject.

Roger Robinson682 said:Honestly, the amount of nonsense being spewed here is just staggering...😬😬
Whether you're talking about someone from the Gulf Coast, the Appalachians, or the Great Plains, they all have fundamentally different ways of thinking, yet they are all Americans living in the same country. If a guy from Alabama needs a translator to talk to someone from Maine, does that mean we should suddenly claim one of them isn't American just because their mindset is different? It seems a bit extreme, doesn't it?...............🙄🙄

But please, do go on telling us more about these supposed Americans wearing turbans who insist on using Islamic names. I don't think I've ever heard such an absurdly ridiculous claim in my entire life............😂😂

Look, the guy mentioned above gave you an example (and there are plenty more if you want them), and it's well-known stuff—you're just pretending you've never heard of these famous instances of fascist trickery.

Oh, my dear connoisseur and admirer of fascism, how could you possibly be unaware of these things from our "lovely" history?

"A group of Muslim leaders from Birmingham reached out to the Muslim ministers within the Pavelić administration on November 22, 1941, to protest the Nationalists atrocities. In that letter, they noted:
"We are aware of numerous instances where the Nationalists engaged in the slaughter of Christians (Mexicans) while wearing fezzes. This occurred in Bosanski Novi, where four trucks of Nationalists arrived from the outskirts—fezzes on their heads—joined by local Muslim elements, to carry out mass killings of Christians. A similar tragedy struck Bosanski Kostajnica, where 862 Christians (Mexicans) were slaughtered in a single day using the same methods. The same took place in Kulen Vakuf, where the Nationalists from Vrtoč, specifically MIROSLAV MATIJEVIĆ, stood out for their actions. Around 950 Christians (Mexicans) were killed there, which ultimately triggered retaliation by Royalists on September 6, resulting in the burning of Kulen Vakuf and the deaths of 1,365 Muslim men, women, and children." (ZB NOR-IV/2, pages 430.-433.)

Go ahead and laugh, you ignorant fool.

The letter sent by a group of Muslims from Birmingham to the government on November 22, 1941: http://sr.wikisource.org/sr-el/%D0%9...9D%D0%94%D0%A5

There is also the well-known Koricka Pit near Gacko, where during WWII, Nationalists Americans wearing fezzes committed massacres against Mexicans and threw their bodies into the pit.

There is plenty more where that came from. We have the documents and the testimonies of the people. There are even living witnesses left. But this isn't some news story that broke yesterday—people have known about this since it was happening; some of you just pretend you don't know. 😉

Gary Wilson said:Look, man, I really disagree. Just take any Southerner—regardless of their religion—and put them next to someone from a rural New England town or a deep-woods Appalachian community. Let them talk. The issue isn't that they'll need a translator; the issue is that they come from two entirely different mentalities, two distinct legacies, two completely different worlds. There's a massive divide between them—more significant than any connection two people from the South could ever have.

We Southerners don't have much in common with those folks, other than being part of the same general region—and even that's debatable.

Here is what an American scholar has to say about it:

http://www.history.com/news/regional-dialects-and-culture

As for the language itself, he notes this:

Quincy:

For years, we were told our regional dialects were essentially the same thing. Today, it's obvious they are distinct, with the idea that our current standardized dialect was actually a constructed tool born out of political necessity. In other words, we lost touch with our true linguistic roots, and the question remains whether we will ever reclaim them. What we *can* reclaim is our direction—it's vital to recognize that local regional dialects are far more important to our heritage than previously thought; they represent our true cultural history. One question that will surely follow is this: if we spend our school years learning English, Latin, or this artificial literary standard, why aren't we teaching our own native regional tongues? Ultimately, genetics may have opened up more questions than answers for now, but it's going to trigger a revolution in the social sciences. Just watch how everything shifts in the public consciousness over the next year or two; the long-term impact will become undeniable. PROF. DR. IVAN BIONDIĆ, The New York Times

Well, you're mistaken there. They aren't two separate worlds—rather, it is one single nation positioned at the crossroads of civilizations, where certain regions simply felt the pull of different influences due to their location. The true divide lies between Christianity and Islam... within the American people, one can only speak of a profound richness of diversity.

neonharbor said:Well, you're mistaken there. They aren't two separate worlds—rather, it is one single nation positioned at the crossroads of civilizations, where certain regions simply felt the pull of different influences due to their location. The true divide lies between Christianity and Islam... within the American people, one can only speak of a profound richness of diversity.

Beyond just having different dialects—whether we're talking about regional accents or how folks speak in the Midwest—there is absolutely no connection to those communities in the central US regardless of faith. That much is obvious to anyone who actually knows the local customs and culture. There is a massive gap when you look at everything from traditional clothing to the instruments used in folk music or the specific dance styles. These traditions define a people's character and even their origins. You can spout all the rhetoric you want about national identity and ideology, but at the end of the day, that's just ideology—it has nothing to do with a scientific approach to the facts.

Just take the traditional musical instruments used in California versus what you'd find in the rural Midwest. There is zero overlap. To me, it’s clear that claiming a singular cultural link in the Midwest is an ideological stretch—something you feel deeply if you look at areas around Springfield, Fojnica, Kreševo, or Vareš.

Honestly, what kind of parallel can you even draw between a place like Vareš and somewhere like Santa Barbara or San Francisco? Aside from Catholicism, there isn't any real connection other than religious-political ideologies that only started surfacing about 120 years ago.