Is spirituality a form of personal growth?

When most people talk about prayer, they usually just mean begging the heavens for some kind of favor or service.
You might actually be onto something there. 🙂

I don't know... I don't pray to my own ego. That's why I was asking what prayer even means to you personally.

Best,
Nirvana

Look, God is already within you—you don't need to stare at the sky to pray, just open yourself up to who you really are.

Look, my take is simple... the ego was probably necessary back when we didn't know any better, but now? We can bypass it entirely and just let it go. That’s how I see it.
So, where exactly does this idea come from—that we actually *need* an ego to survive in this world?
Can someone walk me through this?

Arthur Grant4 said:Look, I’m not trying to be some yoga guru, a sage, an enlightened being, or some Zen master... I just want to figure out how to drop the baggage, like in that one Zen story. HOW?
The ego is nothing but dead weight. It serves zero purpose.
It’s like driving a pickup truck that’s constantly stuffed with trash, and then you wonder why there’s no room left inside.

What are you guys even talking about, this whole "get rid of the ego" thing? You actually need an ego to function in this life, in this dimension. The trick isn't killing it; it's keeping it on a short leash so it doesn't run wild. Don't let it take the wheel, mostly because we aren't our ego. You gotta get to know it, not treat it like some enemy. Honestly, I think only the immature types, just starting out on their spiritual journey, are actually terrified of the ego.

Arthur Grant4 said:Look, my take is simple... the ego was probably necessary back when we didn't know any better, but now? We can bypass it entirely and just let it go. That’s how I see it.
So, where exactly does this idea come from—that we actually *need* an ego to survive in this world?
Can someone walk me through this?

It's because we're still small and vulnerable—once we grow, we won't need the ego anymore. Where there is no fear, there is no ego. And where the ego vanishes, fear goes with it. Essentially, the ego is inextricably linked to fear itself. For those of us still struggling to survive, fear is the only thing keeping us afloat.

Lisa Cox4 said:....so here's the copy/paste job 🙂

The ego is totally necessary for surviving day-to-day life because it handles the controlling, the comparing, the limiting, and basically steers a person toward making progress. It’s what separates reality from fiction, allows for planning and procrastination to get things done, keeps you safe from danger, and tells you what's best for you in any given moment.
But even though the ego is vital for getting through daily life, it's also the exact foundation for most people's emotional and spiritual messes. Because of it, a person ends up living in a dualistic world, and it stops them from having any direct contact with their "true self."
That's why all those self-discovery techniques are basically just designed to find a way around it. 👍

There. That's the textbook breakdown of what I was just saying. 🙂

Arthur Grant4 said:Look, my take is simple... the ego was probably necessary back when we didn't know any better, but now? We can bypass it entirely and just let it go. That’s how I see it.
So, where exactly does this idea come from—that we actually *need* an ego to survive in this world?
Can someone walk me through this?

I actually asked this exact same thing in an earlier thread, and people basically told me that without an ego, you can't survive or get ahead in life—but then they turn around and say you have to somehow move past it if you ever want to start a spiritual journey... 😕

Now, I just need someone to explain to me why everyone talks about the ego like it's some tangible, concrete thing. Isn't "ego" just a Freudian construct? It feels like nothing more than a rough approximation of reality—just a messy blend of theory and whatever else.

Why is there this obsession with climbing the corporate ladder or being number one?
It’s pure ego.
Competing and giving it your all? Sure. But enjoying the actual process instead of chasing some imaginary concept of success or failure? That's the key. Once you strip away the ego, you realize how hollow those demands actually are.
In that sense, American capitalism is completely empty. It’s cold and selfish, if you want my honest opinion.
But you don't have to be just as cold to survive in it.
You've got a job, you've got food on the table. That's plenty.
I don't see any egoism in that.

urbangardener35, we’re talking about the ego as this concept of self... basically a total fiction that you let run your entire life.
Look, when I say ego, I mean that specific idea or thought where you convince yourself that you're actually SOMEBODY...

Arthur Grant4 said:urbangardener35, we’re talking about the ego as this concept of self... basically a total fiction that you let run your entire life.
Look, when I say ego, I mean that specific idea or thought where you convince yourself that you're actually SOMEBODY...

The notion that you are someone is actually called "self-awareness"—or sometimes just "consciousness." It isn't quite the same thing as the ego.

Arthur Grant4 said:Why is there this obsession with climbing the corporate ladder or being number one?
It’s pure ego.
Competing and giving it your all? Sure. But enjoying the actual process instead of chasing some imaginary concept of success or failure? That's the key. Once you strip away the ego, you realize how hollow those demands actually are.
In that sense, American capitalism is completely empty. It’s cold and selfish, if you want my honest opinion.
But you don't have to be just as cold to survive in it.
You've got a job, you've got food on the table. That's plenty.
I don't see any egoism in that.

Because that’s just how the world works. The stronger force crushes the weaker one.
If you aren't successful, they just swallow you whole.
And if I remember correctly from back in the day, Americans rejected communism, right? Well, that system wanted EQUALITY! Now, suddenly, competition—which is what they call "market competition" these days—doesn't sit so well with you.
A company that isn't winning gets taken over by another firm, its people get laid off, and the entire system gets RESTRUCTURED.

Competing and giving it your all—that's the thing. Just enjoy the process instead of obsessing over some fiction or idea of success versus failure. Without an ego, you can see how empty those needs really are.
Capitalism is completely hollow in that sense. Cold and selfish, if I'm being honest.

It's the same with SPORTS! Just look at what people do in the world of sports.

Arthur Grant4 said:Look at any random guy walking down the street or someone in your own neighborhood. There’s a massive chance that person is basically just a collection of social labels and a self-image they've built up over time. They’re a product of their environment... waking up really means grasping your true nature and finally snapping those ego chains.
But wait—could adopting that identity actually be a necessary stage of growth? Like, maybe you have to play the part before you can move past the ego toward actual consciousness?
Or is our modern civilization just designed to brainwash us? Is it possible we're spiritually regressing compared to those who came before us, meaning this whole spiritual movement sweeping the nation is actually just a collective attempt to remember what we lost and find our way back?
Which one is it?

Both. Everyone loves to whine about the "decline" of modern society, but I don't see an obvious collapse here. Was life truly better a few centuries—or even millennia—ago?
On the flip side, we look at certain indigenous tribes in the Americas and label them "primitive," yet they live in harmony with natural laws and respect one another—some even operate under matriarchal structures, which is a clear step up from our current setup. It’s all relative, but I believe we are moving forward—slowly, sure, but steadily.

Hannah Morris3 said:To me, prayer is just the act of opening up—presenting your own perspective—to God’s love, the universal creative energy, or even just to your own soul...

and I gotta say, I totally agree 😉

***

but man, the absolute hardest part is trying to navigate your own ego around all those other massive egos out there. 😳

Hannah Morris3 said:Both. Everyone loves to whine about the "decline" of modern society, but I don't see an obvious collapse here. Was life truly better a few centuries—or even millennia—ago?
On the flip side, we look at certain indigenous tribes in the Americas and label them "primitive," yet they live in harmony with natural laws and respect one another—some even operate under matriarchal structures, which is a clear step up from our current setup. It’s all relative, but I believe we are moving forward—slowly, sure, but steadily.

We’ve failed.
I think we know why. We've traded living in sync with the Earth for this sheer arrogance, fueled by temporary wealth that was basically just lent to us by the planet itself.
While we're busy taking daily showers, walking down brightly lit streets, chatting on smartphones, and cruising around in self-driving cars... we aren't even thinking about how we're squandering the inheritance the Earth left for us. Instead of using those resources to grow and finally move beyond our mother, the Earth, we’ve just sunk into luxury, debauchery, and pure egoism.
Yeah. Everything we have is just the result of the massive amounts of energy the Earth gave us, which we're lazily burning through. OIL!

Nancy Thompson3 said:We’ve failed.
I think we know why. We've traded living in sync with the Earth for this sheer arrogance, fueled by temporary wealth that was basically just lent to us by the planet itself.
While we're busy taking daily showers, walking down brightly lit streets, chatting on smartphones, and cruising around in self-driving cars... we aren't even thinking about how we're squandering the inheritance the Earth left for us. Instead of using those resources to grow and finally move beyond our mother, the Earth, we’ve just sunk into luxury, debauchery, and pure egoism.
Yeah. Everything we have is just the result of the massive amounts of energy the Earth gave us, which we're lazily burning through. OIL!

I agree that you could call that aspect a "fall." Though, frankly, I don't think people even 500 years ago cared about nature any more than we do now...

I have a friend from a very "devout" family. He’s read the Bible three times over, and his brother is actually an ordained minister.

To give you an idea, he had to retake a class at the end of high school because he hadn't studied at all. The exam was at 8 AM, but he left the house at 7 just so he’d have enough time to stop by the church and pray to God to help him pass so he could finally graduate...
🙂 🙂 :asshole:

So much for prayer. Look, there is another way people pray, where instead of facing your problems (like fear), you just ask God or some divinity to take over for you. I'm not saying that's inherently bad; even Jesus played that card. Don't struggle, just believe in me, "pray and you shall receive," but what?
A court case won, a 13th-month bonus, a better car, or a high grade in college????

In my opinion, neither capitalism nor communism is a perfect model, even if communism looks like it might be...
A mix of the two is the winning combination. Why? Here is how I see it. Some people can't stand physical labor and prefer mental work, while for others, it's the exact opposite. We are all different, and that is precisely why everyone has their own role to play in this world. Even the "worst" among us has a purpose...
Therefore, pure capitalism cannot be the sole model. It just can't. I am wired to sit in the yard while someone else mows the lawn, but that doesn't mean I have a privileged position or that they are my servant. They are simply doing what they like, just as I am...

In an ideal country, there shouldn't be any strings attached, nor should there be one specific model where you take everything and leave nothing behind.

Did we not fall?!

Shame on you, if you think so..

When Al-Qaeda struck the financial centers, planes weren't flying over the USA for three whole days. Temperatures dropped (or maybe they jumped by three degrees—I can't be certain). Regardless, that serves as direct evidence of what causes global warming... just three short days.
If someone would just tell us the truth. Folks, this planet won't be habitable in 50 years, yet we do nothing, or we do very little at all..
shame for People !!! 👎

How could we have been polluting nature 500 years ago??

What good does the massive US nuclear arsenal do, while Iran isn't even allowed to have nuclear energy? What is the real story...?
Damn it all...! 😠

Hannah Morris3 said:I agree that you could call that aspect a "fall." Though, frankly, I don't think people even 500 years ago cared about nature any more than we do now...

But there were just fewer of us back then. Now, we’ve basically decided to burn through a million years' worth of solar energy in a mere century.
When I see those types strutting down fashion runways, wearing overpriced designer boots... they aren't even looking at the world around them. It’s all just lights, their own personal frustrations, some vague design concept, a Vestax turntable, and whatever club track is playing...
Or when I see the corporate types preening in their crisp shirts and ties, driving luxury cars, hiding behind walls of glass and concrete while pretending they’re actually doing something important...
Then there are the idiots like Jack Welch, Donald Trump, and those other lowlifes who recite these endless odes to "business strategy," when in reality, everything they do is just glorified theft...
Or seeing George Bush begging Congress for another few dozen billion dollars just to keep the military machine grinding away in Iraq...
Or noticing how science has basically dwindled down to studying telecommunications, 3D rendering, and building "dream factories"...

And then, when I realize that despite being seventy-something years old, we haven't been back to the Moon, we barely know anything about planets outside our own solar system (aside from that one recently found), we have no clue what's actually happening inside our own planet, and we still haven't figured out anything besides spinning wheels and burning fossil fuels—all while those elites at the top whine about nuclear power plants and play around with their little art school concepts...

That’s when it hits me. We’ve just grown soft in our luxury, lulled to sleep by the warmth of disappearing oil.

Nancy Thompson3 said:But there were just fewer of us back then. Now, we’ve basically decided to burn through a million years' worth of solar energy in a mere century.
When I see those types strutting down fashion runways, wearing overpriced designer boots... they aren't even looking at the world around them. It’s all just lights, their own personal frustrations, some vague design concept, a Vestax turntable, and whatever club track is playing...
Or when I see the corporate types preening in their crisp shirts and ties, driving luxury cars, hiding behind walls of glass and concrete while pretending they’re actually doing something important...
Then there are the idiots like Jack Welch, Donald Trump, and those other lowlifes who recite these endless odes to "business strategy," when in reality, everything they do is just glorified theft...
Or seeing George Bush begging Congress for another few dozen billion dollars just to keep the military machine grinding away in Iraq...
Or noticing how science has basically dwindled down to studying telecommunications, 3D rendering, and building "dream factories"...

And then, when I realize that despite being seventy-something years old, we haven't been back to the Moon, we barely know anything about planets outside our own solar system (aside from that one recently found), we have no clue what's actually happening inside our own planet, and we still haven't figured out anything besides spinning wheels and burning fossil fuels—all while those elites at the top whine about nuclear power plants and play around with their little art school concepts...

That’s when it hits me. We’ve just grown soft in our luxury, lulled to sleep by the warmth of disappearing oil.

126 billion dollars! Approved for military campaigns in Iran. But hey, those are noble missions; they just want to impose democracy. What's the harm in that?

Stinking losers with sick minds. I'm feeling just as fed up as you are..

Respect to Putin, who was the first one with the guts to say NO to the USA...
The first to openly state how sick he is of sick American politics; the first to say everything that Western Europe thinks but lacks the courage to stand up against...

Noah Sanchez7 said:I have a friend from a very "devout" family. He’s read the Bible three times over, and his brother is actually an ordained minister.

To give you an idea, he had to retake a class at the end of high school because he hadn't studied at all. The exam was at 8 AM, but he left the house at 7 just so he’d have enough time to stop by the church and pray to God to help him pass so he could finally graduate...
🙂 🙂 :asshole:

So much for prayer. Look, there is another way people pray, where instead of facing your problems (like fear), you just ask God or some divinity to take over for you. I'm not saying that's inherently bad; even Jesus played that card. Don't struggle, just believe in me, "pray and you shall receive," but what?
A court case won, a 13th-month bonus, a better car, or a high grade in college????

In my opinion, neither capitalism nor communism is a perfect model, even if communism looks like it might be...
A mix of the two is the winning combination. Why? Here is how I see it. Some people can't stand physical labor and prefer mental work, while for others, it's the exact opposite. We are all different, and that is precisely why everyone has their own role to play in this world. Even the "worst" among us has a purpose...
Therefore, pure capitalism cannot be the sole model. It just can't. I am wired to sit in the yard while someone else mows the lawn, but that doesn't mean I have a privileged position or that they are my servant. They are simply doing what they like, just as I am...

In an ideal country, there shouldn't be any strings attached, nor should there be one specific model where you take everything and leave nothing behind.

Whatever you want. As long as you aren't asking for something that hurts someone else, it's fine—though if you're being malicious and wishing harm on others, you'll supposedly face the consequences. Apparently.
The catch is that we all think exactly like you do—we tell ourselves, "Yeah, sure, I'll get everything I want," and of course, nothing happens.
Catholicism doesn't actually promote begging or making deals through prayer. Though, to my knowledge, they officially recognized the Prayers of St. Bridget—which are essentially pure "deals" with God. You say the prayers, you get this and that, regardless of whether you're a saint or a total sinner.