Is spirituality a form of personal growth?

Hannah Morris3 said:And you can all head home now—your shift is basically over. We all put in some serious work together today, so feel free to go complain about how this country is going to hell because everyone else is lazy... except for you guys. Hehehe

My job mostly consists of sitting in front of a computer editing. When a film or a scene is rendering, I don't really have much choice in terms of what to do with my time.
But hey, you're right, we've gone way overboard here.

Anyway, what was the topic again?

Who gives you the right to sit there and lecture us about the need to shrink the human population?
Who do you think you are?
Are you out of your mind? What is wrong with you??

What was the topic again, Bob? I thought we were discussing the concept of ego and its "harmfulness"... but it seems those preaching about it here actually have some of the most inflated egos I've ever seen..

How would you reduce the population, and more importantly, why? I haven't seen any overt racism or religious intolerance toward specific groups, but where do you get the authority to pick a nation and comment on "their" need to stop reproducing?>;..

And what kind of sick theory is it to suggest that a civilized society should aim for negative birth rates—basically, just focusing on mortality...??

It's just as absurd to oppose brands like Sony or Technics, or even the principles that support turntables as musical instruments, all because everyone is expected to obsess over Bob's theories about a potential "mosquito attack"—whatever on earth he means by that (maybe aliens?)...

Should we all just act like Bob? Or rather, follow his subtle implication that we should "think like me, or you shouldn't exist at all." That is massive ego! THE BIGGEST ONE!

Noah Sanchez7 said:Who gives you the right to sit there and lecture us about the need to shrink the human population?
Who do you think you are?
Are you out of your mind? What is wrong with you??

What was the topic again, Bob? I thought we were discussing the concept of ego and its "harmfulness"... but it seems those preaching about it here actually have some of the most inflated egos I've ever seen..

How would you reduce the population, and more importantly, why? I haven't seen any overt racism or religious intolerance toward specific groups, but where do you get the authority to pick a nation and comment on "their" need to stop reproducing?>;..

And what kind of sick theory is it to suggest that a civilized society should aim for negative birth rates—basically, just focusing on mortality...??

It's just as absurd to oppose brands like Sony or Technics, or even the principles that support turntables as musical instruments, all because everyone is expected to obsess over Bob's theories about a potential "mosquito attack"—whatever on earth he means by that (maybe aliens?)...

Should we all just act like Bob? Or rather, follow his subtle implication that we should "think like me, or you shouldn't exist at all." That is massive ego! THE BIGGEST ONE!

I’m with you on that one... honestly, anyone who thinks we need to "reduce the population" should probably start by taking a long, hard look in the mirror first. 😉

urbangardener35 said:I actually asked this exact same thing in an earlier thread, and people basically told me that without an ego, you can't survive or get ahead in life—but then they turn around and say you have to somehow move past it if you ever want to start a spiritual journey... 😕

Now, I just need someone to explain to me why everyone talks about the ego like it's some tangible, concrete thing. Isn't "ego" just a Freudian construct? It feels like nothing more than a rough approximation of reality—just a messy blend of theory and whatever else.

Since I wrote it, I might as well answer myself, right? 🙂

Yeah, you absolutely have to bypass it. Why? Because the Ego won't let you become One—a whole, integrated being—which is basically the entire point of every spiritual technique out there. I mean, isn't it just human nature to want to be whole, complete, and free? 🙂

Can someone please just explain to me why we talk about the ego like it’s some tangible, living thing? Isn't the "ego" just a Freudian construct—basically a rough approximation of reality that's just a messy blend of theory and whatever else?

It all stems from the fact that we live in a dualistic world—a world defined by opposites (life vs. death, good vs. evil, hot vs. cold, left vs. right, joy vs. sorrow, health vs. sickness, etc.).

And since nothing in this universe exists without its opposite, people are constantly forced to compare things and "question" them. That's how they develop social and survival skills within this duality (you know, by actually living)... like distinguishing success from failure, beauty from ugliness, or what's acceptable versus what's not.

That’s exactly why human consciousness is fundamentally split into two parts—and that’s where the Ego steps in and makes itself necessary.

So, even though knowing the difference between good and evil is crucial in most life situations, living in a dualistic world is brutal; it drags us through endless emotional and mental suffering and fear (I mean, you can't have life without death, can you?)

Lisa Cox4 said:Since I wrote it, I might as well answer myself, right? 🙂

Yeah, you absolutely have to bypass it. Why? Because the Ego won't let you become One—a whole, integrated being—which is basically the entire point of every spiritual technique out there. I mean, isn't it just human nature to want to be whole, complete, and free? 🙂

Can someone please just explain to me why we talk about the ego like it’s some tangible, living thing? Isn't the "ego" just a Freudian construct—basically a rough approximation of reality that's just a messy blend of theory and whatever else?

It all stems from the fact that we live in a dualistic world—a world defined by opposites (life vs. death, good vs. evil, hot vs. cold, left vs. right, joy vs. sorrow, health vs. sickness, etc.).

And since nothing in this universe exists without its opposite, people are constantly forced to compare things and "question" them. That's how they develop social and survival skills within this duality (you know, by actually living)... like distinguishing success from failure, beauty from ugliness, or what's acceptable versus what's not.

That’s exactly why human consciousness is fundamentally split into two parts—and that’s where the Ego steps in and makes itself necessary.

So, even though knowing the difference between good and evil is crucial in most life situations, living in a dualistic world is brutal; it drags us through endless emotional and mental suffering and fear (I mean, you can't have life without death, can you?)

Okay... I partially get it, but I think what I'm missing comes down to different definitions, perceptions, and philosophical systems.

But look, let's try this... For example, back on the "What is Enlightenment?" thread, there was this idea from Carl Jung that an enlightened person is someone who recognizes/becomes aware of their shadow side (if I translated that right), so maybe it would be a good idea if we talked here using simpler terms so we're actually on the same page about our definitions.

Can you answer these questions for me:
What does a person actually get out of becoming "One," as you put it? Is it truly a state without pain and suffering, or is it something else entirely?
Does this "Awakened" person still experience "negative emotions" (anger, rage, etc.), and if so, do they express them? Do they even have emotions at all?
Does this person have desires?
Does this person have a sense of morality, or is there no such thing as good and evil in their world?
Give me some specific differences between a whole person and a regular person who isn't on a spiritual path.

Facing your own shadow isn't some casual walk in the park. It demands an immense amount of time... and even more courage.
Still, I actually like this definition. 🙂

There’s this common misconception that an Awakened person feels absolutely nothing, as if they’ve been magically liberated from all typical human struggles. 🙂
The truth is, they still feel pain, and yeah, sometimes they suffer. They experience those so-called "negative" emotions just like anyone else; whether they choose to act on them or suppress them is entirely up to their own discretion. If they decide a situation calls for an emotional response, they'll show it. If not, they won't.

They still have desires, they still receive congratulations, and they still offer greetings, but they aren't tethered to any of it. Expressing these things doesn't make them any happier or more miserable than if they kept them inside.
Beyond themselves, there is no sense of traditional morality. But don't mistake that for being lawless—this kind of morality exists outside the standard social conditioning or the rigid moral frameworks most people live by. In practice, though, they usually respect those societal norms and don't feel the need to go around trying to fix everyone else's rules.

A whole person is someone who has fully embraced every part of themselves—that's why we call them "whole." They tend to be much more sensitive than your average person, which means what they experience hits much harder and more intensely than it does for others. They aren't at war with themselves anymore. There's nothing left to fight because they've transcended every internal conflict through total acceptance. And when I say "transcended," I don't mean it in the way people usually think... it just means those conflicts no longer touch them. They no longer identify with the struggle.
They exist in the moment. They don't feel like they're at odds with their surroundings or the universe; instead, they see everything as an expression of their own Will. ...etc.
Do I really need to bother explaining what a "normal" person is? 🙂

Until you bring consciousness into every single corner of your Being, you can't truly be enlightened. People are under the delusion that once someone reaches a state of Unity or Self-Realization, they'll suddenly stop experiencing reality altogether. No. As long as a person is still tied to this plane in any capacity, they experience everything just like the rest of us... just with a massive difference in intensity. The rest of us cling to what is inside and outside of us, but He doesn't cling. He exists in the state of The Observer.

Regards,
nirvaan

Brandon Hall88 said:Facing your own shadow isn't some casual walk in the park. It demands an immense amount of time... and even more courage.
Still, I actually like this definition. 🙂

There’s this common misconception that an Awakened person feels absolutely nothing, as if they’ve been magically liberated from all typical human struggles. 🙂
The truth is, they still feel pain, and yeah, sometimes they suffer. They experience those so-called "negative" emotions just like anyone else; whether they choose to act on them or suppress them is entirely up to their own discretion. If they decide a situation calls for an emotional response, they'll show it. If not, they won't.

They still have desires, they still receive congratulations, and they still offer greetings, but they aren't tethered to any of it. Expressing these things doesn't make them any happier or more miserable than if they kept them inside.
Beyond themselves, there is no sense of traditional morality. But don't mistake that for being lawless—this kind of morality exists outside the standard social conditioning or the rigid moral frameworks most people live by. In practice, though, they usually respect those societal norms and don't feel the need to go around trying to fix everyone else's rules.

A whole person is someone who has fully embraced every part of themselves—that's why we call them "whole." They tend to be much more sensitive than your average person, which means what they experience hits much harder and more intensely than it does for others. They aren't at war with themselves anymore. There's nothing left to fight because they've transcended every internal conflict through total acceptance. And when I say "transcended," I don't mean it in the way people usually think... it just means those conflicts no longer touch them. They no longer identify with the struggle.
They exist in the moment. They don't feel like they're at odds with their surroundings or the universe; instead, they see everything as an expression of their own Will. ...etc.
Do I really need to bother explaining what a "normal" person is? 🙂

Until you bring consciousness into every single corner of your Being, you can't truly be enlightened. People are under the delusion that once someone reaches a state of Unity or Self-Realization, they'll suddenly stop experiencing reality altogether. No. As long as a person is still tied to this plane in any capacity, they experience everything just like the rest of us... just with a massive difference in intensity. The rest of us cling to what is inside and outside of us, but He doesn't cling. He exists in the state of The Observer.

Regards,
nirvaan

I don't have any issues with your definition, but I wanted to mention something, especially regarding your point about bringing awareness into every pore of one's being...

A person who is fully conscious is also aware of every single movement they make; they don't have unconscious gestures. They are also aware of every thought, knowing exactly where it came from and why it surfaced in that moment.
They don't have "body language," because they've become aware of that part of themselves; if they want to communicate something physically, they do so consciously.
Furthermore, that person will breathe consciously.!!
If they were to smoke a cigarette, for example, they would do so with total presence, because they wouldn't be able to do two things at once—they've broken that duality and exist in a single moment.
They won't talk much, but when they do, they choose their words very carefully so they don't say anything that isn't true.

Finally, they will be completely free from the brain's mechanics, not the mind or reason... In the sense that the constant "record spinning" in their head...
They "turn off" that record. To a typical American, such a person would seem crazy, half-dead, depressed, or at the very least, not quite lucid.

urbangardener35, sorry, I mixed you up with a moderator from that philosophy forum...

Noah Sanchez7 said:Who gives you the right to sit there and lecture us about the need to shrink the human population?
Who do you think you are?
Are you out of your mind? What is wrong with you??

What was the topic again, Bob? I thought we were discussing the concept of ego and its "harmfulness"... but it seems those preaching about it here actually have some of the most inflated egos I've ever seen..

How would you reduce the population, and more importantly, why? I haven't seen any overt racism or religious intolerance toward specific groups, but where do you get the authority to pick a nation and comment on "their" need to stop reproducing?>;..

And what kind of sick theory is it to suggest that a civilized society should aim for negative birth rates—basically, just focusing on mortality...??

It's just as absurd to oppose brands like Sony or Technics, or even the principles that support turntables as musical instruments, all because everyone is expected to obsess over Bob's theories about a potential "mosquito attack"—whatever on earth he means by that (maybe aliens?)...

Should we all just act like Bob? Or rather, follow his subtle implication that we should "think like me, or you shouldn't exist at all." That is massive ego! THE BIGGEST ONE!

And where exactly do you get off deciding what everyone else is thinking? Honestly. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion—even you, despite your questionable judgment.

Quincy:

What are you people? Who actually are you? Are you guys actually insane? Seriously, what is going on with your brains??

Our brains are perfectly fine, unlike yours—which you were busy tearing apart just a few days ago.

Quincy:

What was the topic again, Bob? I feel like we were all deep in some debate about the ego and how "toxic" it supposedly is... But honestly, looking at this thread, it seems like the very people preaching about it might actually have some of the most inflated egos here. I guess. Maybe I'm just seeing things.

Look, I have an ego. And if you’d actually bothered to read what I wrote—which, let's be honest, it looks like you didn't—you would've seen that I am actually DEFENDING the ego here. I'm making the case that the ego is necessary. In fact, I've gone as far as saying I've actively worked to develop mine. Okay?

Quincy:

How would you even go about reducing the population, and more importantly, why? I haven’t exactly seen much blatant racism or religious intolerance directed at specific groups here, but I still don't get it... where do you people get the right to pick a specific nation and start commenting on "their" need to stop procreating? It feels wrong, I guess. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a massive overstep.

I don't see the point in trying to cull humanity or anything like that. That seems extreme, honestly. If you really wanted to tackle overpopulation, maybe—and I'm just guessing here—you'd focus on educating people in lower-income communities. It's probably more about providing better access to education to naturally bring those birth rates down. Just a thought.

Quincy:

And what exactly is that? Sick. Just... sick. So, I’ve been sitting here chewing on this idea... this whole theory that a civilized society actually *needs* negative natality—you know, where mortality outpaces births. It’s a heavy one. Maybe it's just me, but I can't help but feel a bit cynical about the logic behind it. What's the actual argument there? That we need to thin the herd to maintain stability? Or maybe it's some sort of evolutionary reset button? I guess it's easy to sit back and theorize about population decline being a sign of progress or "civilized" balance, but it feels a little bleak when you really dig into it. It’s like we’re trying to engineer a graceful exit for entire generations just to keep the gears of society turning smoothly. I don't know. It feels a bit hollow, if I'm being honest. Just an idea, though. I'm probably overthinking the whole thing.

Practice, man. Real practice. It’s actually happening.

Quincy:

It’s such a sick thesis, really. All this constant pushback against brands like Roland or Technics... and then there's those people who insist on treating turntables as if they're some holy grail of music production. It’s honestly exhausting. I guess what they should be doing instead is focusing on stuff that actually matters—like how Bob is always obsessing over the threat of some "mosquito attack." Who knows what he actually means by that? Maybe he’s talking about aliens or something equally absurd. But hey, that's just my take.

Fair enough, you’ve got a point there. I guess I was being too generous by assuming DJs actually have much to think about in the first place. My mistake for thinking they were capable of that level of depth. Honestly, let them just stick to their Roland gear and stay in their lane. As for whatever tiny bit of intellect they were born with? They'll probably just end up snorting it all away with the cocaine.

Quincy:

Maybe we should all just act like Bob—or rather, how Bob likes to imply when he’s reading between the lines: "think like me, or don't bother existing at all." Honestly? That is some massive ego right there. Like, the biggest one I've ever seen.

You guys couldn't be me if you tried. Honestly, don't even bother. Just grab a Roland and... shave it all off!
And then everything just falls apart. That's the only time he ever seems to be "out sick."

There’s really no reason for us to be insulting one another.

I don't think you're stupid; I just think you've become way too caught up in your own intellect. Honestly, getting obsessed with being "smart" can actually be a lot more dangerous than getting high on money or coke.
It's risky for you, and for everyone around you.

You seem to be "tripping" on all these theories about abandoning Mother Earth or defending against alien invasions and things like that.
What's going on? Maybe you just need a different kind of escape—not drugs, just a way to unwind. 🙄

You also get worked up over theories about population control and stuff.

Capitalism is the engine driving everything, and I don't see any other alternative, but it really needs to be driven by humanistic values.
Are you even sure that marginalized communities actually want to be "educated," as you put it? Did you ever stop to ask them if they even want that?
You haven't?!
Then where do you get the right to decide their fates, or to think you have the authority to mold people into your own image?
If you're so interested in sculpting things, go grab a massive rock and make whatever you want out of it. My hat's off to you.

I stumbled upon a Quincy today that I thought might resonate with you...

__________________________________________________ _______________

[Ciara] says:
Our obsession with the fascist definition of intelligence stems from how we undervalue the mind. We’ve replaced reality with endless combinations of abstract symbols, signs, and numbers, effectively suppressing our sensory, emotional, and social intelligence.

__________________________________________________ _______________

Just so there's no misunderstanding, I don't mean anything by this. Honestly, I can tell you I've been in similar spots myself, noticing how those "harmful" thoughts start to take shape...

@

I wasn't even talking about someone who is fully Awakened... I was talking about the actual process of becoming aware. 🙂

As for anything else, I have nothing to say. It’s all pretty obvious at this point.

Noah Sanchez7 said:There’s really no reason for us to be insulting one another.

I don't think you're stupid; I just think you've become way too caught up in your own intellect. Honestly, getting obsessed with being "smart" can actually be a lot more dangerous than getting high on money or coke.
It's risky for you, and for everyone around you.

You seem to be "tripping" on all these theories about abandoning Mother Earth or defending against alien invasions and things like that.
What's going on? Maybe you just need a different kind of escape—not drugs, just a way to unwind. 🙄

You also get worked up over theories about population control and stuff.

Capitalism is the engine driving everything, and I don't see any other alternative, but it really needs to be driven by humanistic values.
Are you even sure that marginalized communities actually want to be "educated," as you put it? Did you ever stop to ask them if they even want that?
You haven't?!
Then where do you get the right to decide their fates, or to think you have the authority to mold people into your own image?
If you're so interested in sculpting things, go grab a massive rock and make whatever you want out of it. My hat's off to you.

a) You guys were the ones who slapped the "genius" label on me, so if it bothers you, just peel it off. Don't blame me for what you decided to call me.
b) Capitalism isn't the only option, and it's certainly not the best one. It's a system built on greed, and greed triggers constant competition, which just burns through resources instead of actually meeting everyone's needs.
Nobody really possesses a sense of humanism, and if capitalism hadn't been so brutally crushing communism, it might not have turned so paranoid and negative. But... it will come back around. That's just how the cycle works.
c) People in marginalized communities do get educated because they live among people who are educated, so they slowly absorb that culture. Believe me, the reality for these communities today is worlds apart from what it was twenty years ago.
d) Since apparently you haven't realized, I actually can make plenty of things out of a block of stone. Unlike some of these modern sculptors, I don't run away from the actual work of carving.

Side note: I have every right to think whatever I want. I have the means, the knowledge, the desire, and the ability.

@Brandon Hall88
You know, Arthur Janov talks about what a "normal" person looks like in his book "The Primal Scream"—as opposed to a neurotic one—and there’s this honestly mind-blowing overlap with how you describe an awakened person. It actually reminds me of some stuff I read about Bushmen and their way of life, where they describe them using those same exact traits as your idea of a "whole" human being.
What I'm getting at is... I really think an "awakened" person (whether you call them enlightened, whole, or saved) is just any mentally healthy individual. And man, it's a tragedy, but I feel like those people are incredibly rare these days.

@Noah Sanchez7
Look, I'm no big-shot philosopher urbangardener35—I'm just some total nobody 🙂... I mean, I actually had an account on this forum a while back too, but I haven't bothered changing my handle because, honestly, it still pretty much sums me up perfectly.

urbangardener35 said:@Brandon Hall88
You know, Arthur Janov talks about what a "normal" person looks like in his book "The Primal Scream"—as opposed to a neurotic one—and there’s this honestly mind-blowing overlap with how you describe an awakened person. It actually reminds me of some stuff I read about Bushmen and their way of life, where they describe them using those same exact traits as your idea of a "whole" human being.
What I'm getting at is... I really think an "awakened" person (whether you call them enlightened, whole, or saved) is just any mentally healthy individual. And man, it's a tragedy, but I feel like those people are incredibly rare these days.

@Noah Sanchez7
Look, I'm no big-shot philosopher urbangardener35—I'm just some total nobody 🙂... I mean, I actually had an account on this forum a while back too, but I haven't bothered changing my handle because, honestly, it still pretty much sums me up perfectly.

And a neurotic is just a normal person. It's like how someone gets muscular because their environment demands it—like if they're working a dock job—neurosis basically emerged as a natural mechanism.
Purists like Arthur Janov? They're actually worse than the worst neurotics.

If anyone actually wants to be enlightened, maybe they should just go live with the Bushmen.

This whole idea of Nirvana being enlightened reminds me of that Volcanic race from the FBI movies.
If everyone actually reached enlightenment, would the human race even survive—would there even be any reproduction left?

Nancy Thompson3 said:And a neurotic is just a normal person. It's like how someone gets muscular because their environment demands it—like if they're working a dock job—neurosis basically emerged as a natural mechanism.
Purists like Arthur Janov? They're actually worse than the worst neurotics.

If anyone actually wants to be enlightened, maybe they should just go live with the Bushmen.

👍
Spot on! Aside from the good stuff, civilization basically functions as a factory for broken people, depressives, and suicides...

urbangardener35 said:Okay... I partially get it, but I think what I'm missing comes down to different definitions, perceptions, and philosophical systems.

But look, let's try this... For example, back on the "What is Enlightenment?" thread, there was this idea from Carl Jung that an enlightened person is someone who recognizes/becomes aware of their shadow side (if I translated that right), so maybe it would be a good idea if we talked here using simpler terms so we're actually on the same page about our definitions.

Can you answer these questions for me:
What does a person actually get out of becoming "One," as you put it? Is it truly a state without pain and suffering, or is it something else entirely?
Does this "Awakened" person still experience "negative emotions" (anger, rage, etc.), and if so, do they express them? Do they even have emotions at all?
Does this person have desires?
Does this person have a sense of morality, or is there no such thing as good and evil in their world?
Give me some specific differences between a whole person and a regular person who isn't on a spiritual path.

I haven't actually read that thread yet, but hey, whatever works. You did a solid job on the translation, though most people usually just call Carl Jung’s "dark side" concept the Shadow. 🙂
Quincy:

Can you answer these questions for me? So, what does a guy actually get when he finally achieves that "Simplicity" state you keep rambling about? Is it really this mythical land where pain and suffering just evaporate into thin air, or is there some other catch to the whole thing? Does this "enlightened" guy actually understand what "negative emotions" like anger or rage even feel like, and does he ever let them out? I mean, does he even have emotions at all, or is he just some hollow shell? Does this guy even have desires? Does this guy actually have a moral compass, or does he just live in a world where good and evil don't even exist?

I can. 🙂 But first, let’s get one thing straight... you don't just wake up one morning and suddenly become One. It doesn't work like that. 😉 I mean, don't even get me started... it sounds totally impossible, but hey, at least for us regular mortals, right? 😁

Brandon Hall88 was moving fast on this one, already dropping plenty of gems about how the whole point of spiritual practice is finding freedom from polarity—basically, breaking those addictive loops. He’s saying the goal isn't to just wipe everything out, but to free us from that constant need to react. You know, because every single thing you react to is just another massive drain on your energy. So, I figured I'd just add my two cents:

Here’s the deal: everything starts and ends with one simple truth—nothing in this world stays still. Everything is constantly shifting, evolving, and moving. It’s like the I Ching has been preaching for thousands of years: "change is the only constant." 🙂

Look, any effort you put toward spiritual growth definitely moves the needle, but let’s be real—that progress isn't permanent or set in stone. You shake off one burden, feel like you've finally made it, and you're riding high for a minute, but then? Boom. A new piece of your shadow crawls out of the woodwork and you're right back where you started. It's a cycle. The brutal reality is that all you're left with is the grind—just endless, exhausting work, over and over again. 😁

Look, let's be real: spiritual practices definitely give you those little windows into that state of Simplicity, even if they’re just fleeting moments. But honestly, who cares if it's short-lived? Even a split second of that clarity is enough to flip a switch in your brain. And once you've had that epiphany, what are you actually left with? You're left with the experience. It’s pretty simple math: the more of those deep insights you stack up, the freer you become. Isn't that the whole point?

Look, you can actually manage to hit a relatively steady state of higher consciousness—that whole Pleroma thing—if you try hard enough. But even then... is it really the answer? Is it? 😬

Look, I’m not trying to turn this into some deep philosophical lecture—don't get me wrong—but... 😁Everyone’s out here chasing this permanent high, trying to lock down that feeling of happiness like they can just pour concrete over it and freeze time forever. Honestly? It’s a good thing that’s impossible. If we actually managed to cement ourselves into one single state of being, we'd be totally screwed. We’re evolutionary creatures, right? Any attempt to stay stuck in one spot would basically just be a way to kill our own growth and stall any kind of progress. Why would anyone even want to stop evolving? 👍
Quincy:

So, what's the actual deal with the difference between someone who’s actually whole and just some regular person who hasn't even started a spiritual journey?

A whole person doesn't have questions. 🙂

Exactly. A whole person doesn't have questions. That’s the part I neglected to mention...
You gave me a sharp reminder there. 🙂

Thanks
Nirvana

@ Hannah Morris3..

And why on earth would they bother reproducing??? 🙂
I'm joking, obviously.

I count myself lucky because I spent years living alongside a certain Master, before I finally realized—through my own skin and bone—some of the very things I used to say. And the things I couldn't grasp? I saw them reflected in him.
He rejected nothing. To everything, he gave a massive YES. 🙂

Trying to define what a Master actually is, or what Awakening or enlightenment means... it’s all just mental gymnastics.
Thought is never true, nor will it ever be. It’s nothing more than a thin veil, a cheap imitation of Reality that can never truly explain any of this.

Just picture a man who says a resounding YES to Life. He accepts everything without rejecting a single thing, yet he isn't bound by any of it. Instead, he simply lives, joyfully embracing everything both in front of him and deep within himself.

Brandon Hall88 said:@ Hannah Morris3..

And why on earth would they bother reproducing??? 🙂
I'm joking, obviously.

I count myself lucky because I spent years living alongside a certain Master, before I finally realized—through my own skin and bone—some of the very things I used to say. And the things I couldn't grasp? I saw them reflected in him.
He rejected nothing. To everything, he gave a massive YES. 🙂

Trying to define what a Master actually is, or what Awakening or enlightenment means... it’s all just mental gymnastics.
Thought is never true, nor will it ever be. It’s nothing more than a thin veil, a cheap imitation of Reality that can never truly explain any of this.

Just picture a man who says a resounding YES to Life. He accepts everything without rejecting a single thing, yet he isn't bound by any of it. Instead, he simply lives, joyfully embracing everything both in front of him and deep within himself.

But is that actually experiencing it—or just observing?