What's the point of Zen koans?

"That machine is totally inefficient. I saw it in action over at John Doe's place in Reality."

Wait, what even is Reality?

I mean, obviously it’s not efficient, right? It’s just not for everyone. Like, 99% of people actually crave that whole duality thing—they suffer through it and honestly, they kind of love wallowing in it like pigs in the mud. I guess we're all just made of clay or something, huh?
The Buddha masters are only meant for that tiny 1% of us. Just for a select few... though, if you ask me, there are at least six other ways to get there for those in that 1% club...

Even a Ford isn't something everyone drives here in the States. Only certain people, you know?😁

Elizabeth Carter6 said:"That machine is totally inefficient. I saw it in action over at John Doe's place in Reality."

Wait, what even is Reality?

I mean, obviously it’s not efficient, right? It’s just not for everyone. Like, 99% of people actually crave that whole duality thing—they suffer through it and honestly, they kind of love wallowing in it like pigs in the mud. I guess we're all just made of clay or something, huh?
The Buddha masters are only meant for that tiny 1% of us. Just for a select few... though, if you ask me, there are at least six other ways to get there for those in that 1% club...

Even a Ford isn't something everyone drives here in the States. Only certain people, you know?😁

Reality. I've seen people obsessed with Buddha. Just like I've seen people following Gurdjieff and all that fourth way crap.

Well, not everyone in America drives a Ford either. Only certain people.😁

True. But I guess every amateur gets into Buddha and Gurdjieff, only to act all "spiritual" later and hold a grudge against me for years just because I don't do anything yet I have everything.

Douglas Brown4 said:Reality. I've seen people obsessed with Buddha. Just like I've seen people following Gurdjieff and all that fourth way crap.

Well, not everyone in America drives a Ford either. Only certain people.😁

True. But I guess every amateur gets into Buddha and Gurdjieff, only to act all "spiritual" later and hold a grudge against me for years just because I don't do anything yet I have everything.

Some people are just born successful...
Some are born total failures...
Some are born alcoholics...
Some are born losers...
Some are born promiscuous...
Some are born men...
Some are born women...
Some are born spiritual prostitutes...
Some are born "spiritual seekers"...

But there's only ever one President of the United States, right?
Only one Prime Minister, if we're looking at other places...
There are only maybe four or five political parties that actually make it past the threshold...
And there are only a handful of bishops or pastors, even when there are millions of sheep in the pews...

In our own heads and imaginations, though, we can be absolutely anything we want to be.
Hey, daydreaming with your eyes wide open doesn't cost a dime!😉

I wonder if I'll ever become... well, what even is this...

Elizabeth Carter6 said:Some people are just born successful...
Some are born total failures...
Some are born alcoholics...
Some are born losers...
Some are born promiscuous...
Some are born men...
Some are born women...
Some are born spiritual prostitutes...
Some are born "spiritual seekers"...

But there's only ever one President of the United States, right?
Only one Prime Minister, if we're looking at other places...
There are only maybe four or five political parties that actually make it past the threshold...
And there are only a handful of bishops or pastors, even when there are millions of sheep in the pews...

In our own heads and imaginations, though, we can be absolutely anything we want to be.
Hey, daydreaming with your eyes wide open doesn't cost a dime!😉

I wonder if I'll ever become... well, what even is this...

I suppose I agree. We just spend our time daydreaming while washing glasses at a local microbrewery.

2 ways to perceive things:
1 direct insight
2 direct insight through a 'channel.' 👍

but a channel isn't quite the same as American "channeling," though it kind of is... 👍

Austin Hayes66 said:2 ways to perceive things:
1 direct insight
2 direct insight through a 'channel.' 👍

but a channel isn't quite the same as American "channeling," though it kind of is... 👍

It isn't, but maybe it is. But it isn't. Not really. Because it's just a little bit like that. Maybe. 😂 😂 😂
Direct insight from a channel is basically called upskirting. 😈

You know what magic is? 😬 It’s just a literary cliché.
You know what Buddha is? 😬 Another literary cliché.
So then, what does 2=0 actually mean? 😬

Douglas Brown4 said:It isn't, but maybe it is. But it isn't. Not really. Because it's just a little bit like that. Maybe. 😂 😂 😂
Direct insight from a channel is basically called upskirting. 😈

What's wrong with an upskirt shot? 🙂

Austin Hayes66 said:You know what magic is? 😬 It’s just a literary cliché.
You know what Buddha is? 😬 Another literary cliché.
So then, what does 2=0 actually mean? 😬

In this case, 2=0 represents a cyclic group.

Douglas Brown4 said:In this case, 2=0 represents a cyclic group.

See, you actually get it. 😬 Now put that knowledge to work... 👍

Austin Hayes66 said:See, you actually get it. 😬 Now put that knowledge to work... 👍

I'm totally lost here... someone please enlighten me!

Elizabeth Carter6 said:I'm totally lost here... someone please enlighten me!

That sounds like a bit of a platitude to me. I guess he doesn't really know himself.
Maybe if you're interested in cyclic groups, this might help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_group

I suspect Austin Hayes66 might benefit from looking this over. That section regarding polygon rotation seems to align pretty closely with what he's envisioning.
His idea is essentially G={0,1} with addition modulo 2.
A binary group.

Douglas Brown4 said:Reality. I've seen people obsessed with Buddha. Just like I've seen people following Gurdjieff and all that fourth way crap.

Well, not everyone in America drives a Ford either. Only certain people.😁

True. But I guess every amateur gets into Buddha and Gurdjieff, only to act all "spiritual" later and hold a grudge against me for years just because I don't do anything yet I have everything.

You possess everything? Nick, nobody does anything and nobody has anything! The only thing you truly possess is that very illusion!

electricdrifter68 said:You possess everything? Nick, nobody does anything and nobody has anything! The only thing you truly possess is that very illusion!

That’s about it, I suppose, though I might disagree on the illusion part.
Are you some kind of Gurdjieff follower?

Austin Hayes66 said:You know what magic is? 😬 It’s just a literary cliché.
You know what Buddha is? 😬 Another literary cliché.
So then, what does 2=0 actually mean? 😬

But tell me, do you actually know what you are? Do you even have a clue who you truly are?

Douglas Brown4 said:That’s about it, I suppose, though I might disagree on the illusion part.
Are you some kind of Gurdjieff follower?

Honestly, I don't even follow my own path, let alone someone else's teachings like Gurdjieff's.

1. a = b + 1
2. (a-b)a = (a-b)(b+1)
3. a² - ab = ab + a - b² - b
4. a² - ab - a = ab + a - a - b² - b
5. a(a - b - 1) = b(a - b - 1)
6. a = b 6.
7. b + 1 = b
8. ergo, 1 = 0😁

Or just a bit more mathematical sophistry (just kidding, watch out 😁 )

It could even be that 0=2

Proof: 0 = 2

1. a = b
2. a - b - 2 = a - b - 2
3. a(a - b - 2) = b(a - b - 2)
4. a² - ab - 2a = ab - b² - 2b
5. a² - ab = ab - b² - 2b + 2a
6. a² - ab = ab + 2a - b² - 2b
7. a(a - b) = a(b + 2) - b(b + 2)
8. a(a - b) = (a - b)(b + 2)
9. a = b + 2
10. b = b + 2 10
11. Therefore, by the subtraction property of 0 = 2😁

Buddha koans really are a fantastic way to give your brain a bit of a "stretch" in a totally different direction.

Beyond just focusing directly on the koan itself—you have to let it go. Think of it like dropping a pebble into a pond; you let it sink into your subconscious and just settle there for a while... letting it shift around until we see what eventually surfaces.

Every answer carries its own weight...

Take this specific goose koan, for example: nobody actually specified what kind of bottle we're talking about. For all we know, it could be a rubber bottle😁 that’s incredibly stretchy... whatever... though personally, I find the most compelling part (as I've mentioned before) is how much it comes down to pure perception...😁

Brenda Cook4 said:1. a = b + 1
2. (a-b)a = (a-b)(b+1)
3. a² - ab = ab + a - b² - b
4. a² - ab - a = ab + a - a - b² - b
5. a(a - b - 1) = b(a - b - 1)
6. a = b 6.
7. b + 1 = b
8. ergo, 1 = 0😁

Or just a bit more mathematical sophistry (just kidding, watch out 😁 )

It could even be that 0=2

Proof: 0 = 2

1. a = b
2. a - b - 2 = a - b - 2
3. a(a - b - 2) = b(a - b - 2)
4. a² - ab - 2a = ab - b² - 2b
5. a² - ab = ab - b² - 2b + 2a
6. a² - ab = ab + 2a - b² - 2b
7. a(a - b) = a(b + 2) - b(b + 2)
8. a(a - b) = (a - b)(b + 2)
9. a = b + 2
10. b = b + 2 10
11. Therefore, by the subtraction property of 0 = 2😁

Thanks, thanks, thanks a million.
This second "proof" was actually shown to us back in 1988 by Captain Nikolovski in the US Army (it bears an incredible resemblance to Cardinal Bozanic, who is a very intelligent man) over in Požarevac.
Basically, there's a trick hidden in there. I haven't seen it since then, and I've always been curious because back during training, I didn't have the time to write everything down and analyze it (the US Army isn't exactly like the modern military; they didn't coddle us at all, we barely even had time to grab a quick break, let alone study).
Let me see where the catch is.

Aha... I see. Factoring... out the common term, right... steps 5->6 and 8->9

P.S. You didn't actually send that to Austin Hayes66 and stay silent about the trick, did you? Does he really believe that's mathematically sound? Poor guy...

electricdrifter68 said:Who, Smiley? I'm totally with you on that one!

No way, Seb, seriously... if you even have a clue?
If you do... or maybe you don't?😉