Are vegetarians actually smarter?

Rachel Martinez11 said:Don't go there again—there are people who have to eat meat through no fault of their own.

Fair enough—my apologies.

Thomas Stewart97 said:I haven't touched meat since I was 15—it's been about 12 years now.
Smart people don't eat carcasses.☕

what goes around, comes around🙂

P.S.

your actions always find their way back to you🙂

🙂

Oh sure, you must be just so enlightened and cool because you skipped the steak. 👋

🤣

Maria Moore4 said:🙂

Oh sure—you’re just so brilliant and enlightened because you don't eat meat! 👋

🤣

Enlightened? 😕
I haven't touched meat once in the last 12 years—purely out of compassion for animals. Honestly, I can't wrap my head around how people can eat carcasses without feeling a shred of guilt; it seems completely abnormal to me. But fine—everything finds its level eventually.
P.S.
Karma is a bitch.🙂

Thomas Stewart97 said:cool? 😕
I haven't touched meat once in the last 12 years—honestly, just because I can't stomach the idea of hurting animals. I truly don't get how people can eat carcasses without feeling even a tiny bit of guilt; to me, it feels totally unnatural. But hey, whatever—everything settles itself in the end.
P.S.
Karma is a bitch.🙂

You're being incredibly hypocritical.

Bob Dylan
Vegetarians

Vegetarians have taken over—
they know the system and they’re making a mess of things.
They’re messing with our market share,
and honestly, it’s getting kind of embarrassing
to be one of us.

Vegetarians stole my whole brand,
it’s become this massive federal trend,
while we're being pushed underground—
like, where do we even find a base or some hope
on some secret channel?

Oh, you vegetarians,
you've got everything in your hands,
but why go and throw it all away?
Just leave a little something for the rest of us.
Vegetarians, brothers and countrymen,
be chill for a second and tone it down!

Vegetarians in all the key positions.
Vegetarians dominating the nightly news.
On giant, colorful billboards everywhere,
wherever I turn,
I can't escape their voices.

Vegetarians dating our girls.
Vegetarians embedded in every organization.
From labor unions to major sports,
there's a vegetarian at every door,
their time is coming!

Oh, vegetarians...

They don't have any real vision,
now everyone's just calling for concrete jungles.
But dreams are still floating out there,
somewhere between the suburbs and the city.
We're entering an era of amateurs,
just living comfortably in their own little bubbles.
This hybrid class is growing fast
right in that middle ground between rural and urban.

Vegetarians...

Vegetarians, vegetarians,
vegetarians, vegetarians...

Thomas Stewart97 said:I don't get how people can feast on carrion without feeling even a shred of guilt.

The issue lies within society itself. I’ve always been convinced that even during World War II, there were decent Germans out there celebrating Christmas and New Year's Day, even while Jewish people were perishing in German concentration camps. People have this innate tendency toward manipulation and collective amnesia. It's a pattern. Just as those who spent their entire lives cheering for a specific flag could transform overnight into extremists or insurgents—conveniently forgetting the bitter tears shed at the funeral of Marshall—so too will they, in twenty years or so, forget they ever consumed meat. They’ll convince themselves they’ve always been champions of a righteous, ethical society, one devoid of exploitation, abuse, or the oppression of any race or living creature.

Rachel Martinez11 said:The issue—I truly believe—lies within society itself. I’m deeply convinced that even during WWII, there were good Germans who celebrated Christmas and New Year's Day, despite the fact that Jews were perishing in German concentration camps at that very same time. People have this tendency toward manipulation and a sort of collective amnesia. It’s just how it works. Just as those who spent their entire lives waving the Stars and Stripes overnight transformed into extremists—forgetting all too quickly the tears shed at the funeral of Marshall—so too will people, in twenty years or more, forget they ever ate meat. They'll convince themselves they’ve always fought for a righteous, ethical society free from exploitation or the abuse of any race or living creature.

son, I don't know if you're quite sharp enough to realize it, but you've really just scored an accidental goal against yourself here. 🙂

I suppose I should have seen this coming. It’s funny, in a dark sort of way, how we always think we’re the exception to the rule until the rule finally catches up with us. I remember sitting in a diner outside of Chicago back in the late nineties, watching the rain hit the window and thinking the world was actually starting to make sense. I was wrong, obviously. We always are. It’s just one of those things that leaves you feeling a bit hollowed out, isn't it? You put in the work, you follow the script, and yet here we are. It feels less like a surprise and more like a slow, inevitable slide into the predictable. Anyway, I didn't mean to go on, but sometimes the weight of it all just settles in. kaže:
Look, kid, I’m not sure if you’re actually sharp enough to grasp what just happened here, but you really just scored an absolute sucker punch of an own goal. 🙂

Is this some kind of new tactic? It’s basically like letting one rip in a crowded elevator and then turning around to ask who did it.

Like I said before, you guys are being incredibly hypocritical! You all sit here acting all high and mighty, going on about how you can't bear to eat animals because they’re slaughtered and stressed—all that stuff about their sad little eyes and blah, blah, blah...
But then, on the flip side, those same poor creatures are being put through endless testing—whether it's for kids' medicine, new drugs, or whatever else—and suddenly that’s perfectly fine with you! 🤔

If you actually gave a damn about animals, you wouldn't be using any of those medicines, deodorants, shampoos, or any of that stuff! Total hypocrites!

Sophia Allen12 said:Like I said before, you people are incredibly hypocritical. You act all high and mighty, posing as if you care about how "poor animals" suffer—how they’re slaughtered, the stress they endure, those sad little eyes and all that nonsense...
But then, on the flip side, you’re perfectly fine with those same poor creatures being tortured through a million different tests just to develop medicines or whatever else you need! 🤔

If you actually gave a damn about animals, you wouldn't be using those drugs, deodorants, shampoos, or any of it! Hypocrites, the lot of you.

You've managed to hit on the core of the issue. Personally, I try to stick to products that don't require the suffering of innocent animals for their production. To that end, here is a blacklist of manufacturers known for using animals in experiments for their products:
http://www.peta.org/index.html

And here is a list of ethical alternatives:
http://www.crueltyfree.org/index.html

I’ll also leave a link to a gallery showing the reality of animals used in testing:
http://www.animalrights.org/gallery

Sophia Allen12 said:Like I said before—you people are incredibly hypocritical! You act all high and mighty about how we can't eat animals because they suffer, their eyes look sad, blah blah blah...
But then you turn around and support those poor creatures being used in countless medical tests—for kids' medicine or whatever else—and suddenly that’s perfectly fine with you! 🤔

If you actually cared about animals, you wouldn't be using products containing animal byproducts—deodorants, shampoos, etc.—in the first place. Total hypocrites!

I stick strictly to vegan products—it's been three years since I've touched dairy. As for medicine, I don't use it. I even found a specialty shop in Trieste that carries vegetarian dog food.

Rachel Martinez11 said:Just a little context to clear up the whole protein debate:

It seems like protein is the big bogeyman people worry about when they decide to go vegetarian. Anxious parents often ask, “But what about the protein?”—treating it like it’s the rarest element on Earth, right up there with diamonds. Honestly, you don't need to sweat the protein deficiency thing, okay? You're statistically more likely to get trampled by a stampede of wild horses on a busy street in Chicago than you are to meet a vegetarian suffering from a lack of protein.

Protein matters because it builds the body—helping with repair work and fighting off infections. The good news? It’s everywhere, including fruits and veggies. Legumes are your best bet here—think chickpeas, lentils, and the whole pea family like beans and fava beans. If we're talking heavy hitters, soy is the king; it's the backbone of vegetarian staples like tofu, veggie burgers, sausages, soy milk, and even that stuff called TVP—textured vegetable protein—which actually isn't as unappetizing as the name suggests! You'll also find protein in eggs, cheese, nuts, seeds, and even in things like rice and pasta.

Proteins are made of amino acids. Some foods, like soy products, milk, cheese, and meat, are "complete" because they contain all the essential amino acids. Others only have some. But, if you simply eat a variety of different plant foods in a vegetarian or vegan diet, those amino acids combine—and bingo!—you get complete protein. This is a point backed by all the major nutritional organizations globally. We don't even have to eat them all in the exact same meal; our bodies are smart enough to store amino acids until they're needed.

Back in 1995, the U.S. government's dietary guidelines specifically noted that vegetarians can easily get all their protein through their diet. Even the American Medical Association—one of the most respected medical bodies out there—stated this years earlier. They were spot on, too, because there hasn't been a single recorded case of protein deficiency caused by a vegetarian or vegan diet! So, seriously—don't worry about it.

Excerpt from the book by Juliet Gellatley, "How to Become, Be, and Stay Vegetarian."

Hmm. So you're saying there's protein in beans and chickpeas... but how much would I actually have to plow through to hit 40-50g of protein per meal? If my math is right, that's at least half a kilo. And how many carbs am I pulling in with that much protein? I'm guessing somewhere around 150 grams. Doesn't that seem a bit excessive?🙂 To hit 300g of protein a day that way, I'd end up eating about a kilo of carbs, which feels like a bit much for me.🙂 Not to mention the biological value of bean protein compared to meat. Plus, I'd be absolutely bloated from all those beans.😬
And a quick note on soy for those who rely on it daily:

Immune Abnormalities & Soy

An article published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science (May 28, 2002) has raised concerns about soy. When researchers injected mice with the soy isoflavones genistein and daidzein, they found upon analyzing the thymus gland that the injections produced dose-responsive decreases in thymic weight of up to 80 percent.

Researchers are pointing out a serious concern here—they noted that even when dietary genistein was administered at levels significantly lower than what we see in infants fed with soy, it still caused noticeable thymic atrophy. This really drives home the possibility that the actual serum genistein levels found in soy-fed babies might be high enough to trigger these types of immune system abnormalities—an issue that aligns with earlier reports regarding immune impairments in human infants raised on soy.

Naomi Baumslag—a Clinical Professor of Pediatrics at Georgetown University Medical Center and a leading authority on breastfeeding—lays out several compelling reasons why parents might want to steer clear of soy-based infant formulas:

There is a significant amount of scientific data suggesting that soy-based formulas can actually be detrimental to newborns.

She points out that the culprit here is a combination of high phytic acid, enzyme inhibitors, lectins, manganese, and phytoestrogens. It’s actually been observed that diets heavily reliant on grains and legumes—which are naturally packed with phytates—contribute to widespread nutritional gaps in developing nations. As it turns out, soybeans carry an even higher phytate load than almost any other grain or legume; because of how phytates bind to minerals, consuming soy products can significantly hinder the body's ability to absorb zinc and iron.

Don't forget that relying heavily on soy can actually drive up your body's demand for Vitamin B12 and Vitamin D—essentially setting the stage for nutritional gaps. In various feeding studies, using Soy Protein Isolate (SPI) was shown to increase the necessary intake for Vitamins E, K, D, and B12. Even worse, it triggered actual deficiency symptoms for several key minerals, including calcium, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, copper, iron, and zinc.

Trypsin plays a vital role in our biology—it’s the enzyme responsible for breaking proteins down into their fundamental building blocks, the amino acids. A trypsin inhibitor, however, essentially shuts that process down; it deactivates the enzyme, which can seriously mess with how we digest protein.

Beyond just the phytates that mess with mineral absorption, you also have to consider that soy protein isolate is loaded with trypsin inhibitors—and the levels can swing wildly, sometimes up to five times higher depending on the brand. It’s not exactly consistent. In rat studies, even small amounts of this stuff led to noticeable drops in weight gain when compared to the control groups. There's also a strong argument to be made that soy plays a role in fibromyalgia, likely due to how many different ways it disrupts normal bodily functions.

"The fibromyalgia treatments were useless," says Leslie Blumenberg from Maine. "I cut out soy immediately. Within three weeks, my energy levels surged, the muscle cramps began to fade, and I finally felt like I was on the path to recovery."

Soy Isoflavones and the Endocrine System There’s been a lot of chatter lately regarding soy isoflavones and their impact on the endocrine system—a topic that often gets lost in the noise of dietary trends. To look at this clearly, we have to move past the sensationalism and focus on the actual biochemistry. Isoflavones are phytoestrogens. They are plant-derived compounds that structurally resemble estrogen, which means they can bind to estrogen receptors in the body. However, it isn't a simple "on/off" switch. Because they are much weaker than the endogenous estrogen produced by the human body, they often act more like a dimmer switch—modulating hormonal activity rather than overriding it. For some, this is seen as a benefit—particularly in discussions surrounding hormone balance and bone health. For others, there is a lingering concern about how these compounds might interfere with thyroid function or reproductive hormones. From a clinical perspective, the consensus seems to be nuanced: moderate consumption of whole soy foods typically doesn't pose a risk to healthy endocrine function, but individual responses vary based on existing hormonal profiles. It’s less about soy being "good" or "bad," and more about understanding how these molecules interact with our specific biological makeup.

I suspect soy’s most significant impact isn't just about how we absorb nutrients—it’s more about its effect on the endocrine system. According to researchers at the US Toxicological Laboratory in Arkansas, the isoflavones found in abundance in soybeans—which essentially mimic estrogen—might actually act as thyroid-depressing compounds.

Does this render soy goitrogenic? We see further evidence supporting this theory out of the University of Alabama at Birmingham—reports have surfaced regarding a specific case where the absorption of thyroxine (that essential iodine-based hormone produced by your thyroid—yes, it’s vital) was significantly diminished following the use of a soy protein dietary supplement.

The patient in this case needed oral thyroid hormone supplements whenever they were eating soy. It seems iodine intake wasn't the deciding factor here—suggesting that even with adequate iodine, you can't quite bypass the goitrogenic impact of soy.

Some people claim soy can help manage menopause symptoms, but the data doesn't quite back that up. A study conducted at the University of Michigan found that when 94 postmenopausal women took a soy supplement containing 188mg of isoflavones daily for three months, there was no real improvement in their symptoms compared to the group taking a placebo.

A similar result popped up in a double-blind study conducted by the University of Chicago—where one group took 72mg of soy isoflavones and the other just a placebo. Interestingly, both groups saw the exact same reduction in hot flashes. It turns out soy isoflavones weren't any more effective than the placebo itself.

It’s quite possible that consuming soy isoflavones carries several negative consequences—side effects that the previously mentioned studies simply failed to track.

Take, for instance, this excerpt from the March 5, 2003 issue of Psychopharmacology: "Isoflavones represent a primary class of phytoestrogens and have been shown to trigger both estrogenic and anti-estrogenic responses within the central nervous system. These impacts aren't just confined to reproductive behavior; they also extend to cognitive learning, anxiety levels, and functions involving the hypothalamo-pituitary axis. Significant shifts in behavioral markers of anxiety—as well as fluctuations in stress hormones—can stem directly from the soy isoflavone levels present in a rat's diet."

Thomas Stewart97 said:I strictly stick to vegan products—I haven't touched dairy in three years now, and I don't take any medications either. I actually found a specialty shop in Trieste that carries vegetarian dog food.

Look, I'm not even talking about products containing animal ingredients; I'm talking about the ones tested on animals. And let's say you actually get sick and need medicine—would you really skip that too? Like, if someone is diabetic and needs insulin? Do you have any idea how pharmaceutical companies actually produce that stuff?
Rachel Martinez11 mentioned they at least try to avoid them, but you're claiming you don't use anything from those industries at all... I find that a little hard to believe, honestly...

From what I can gather, it sounds like soy is your main go-to for essential proteins. That’s one of the most common GMO products out there—they basically take genes from things like fish and stitch them right in...

Rachel Martinez11 said:In twenty years or so, people will totally forget they ever even touched meat. They'll look back thinking they were always this way—fighting for a fair, ethical world where nobody gets exploited or mistreated, whether they're human or not.

🤣 😂

And then the chipmunk went and wrapped the chocolate in foil.

I’m feeling pretty discouraged—honestly said:I’m not talking about products that contain animal ingredients—I mean those that are actually tested on animals. Think about it: if you were sick and needed medication, you wouldn't just refuse to take it, right? Take insulin, for example—if someone needs it to survive, they aren't going to turn it down. And does anyone actually know how pharmaceutical companies produce that stuff?
Rachel Martinez11 mentioned they’re trying to steer clear of those products—but you? You don't use any of them at all. I find that hard to believe—really...

It goes without saying—I simply don't use any products that are tested on animals.
If you check the lists on Peta.org regarding what to buy and what to avoid—honestly, what part of that is hard to believe? A huge number of products from brands like Dove are just as vegan as those from Gareth Bale or Lush. It really isn't right to use products that claim they aren't tested on animals when, in reality, they are living beings.
I wouldn't rule out taking medication entirely—but I’d certainly look into alternatives first. Honestly, if someone takes an antibiotic that's been tested and uses a gelatin capsule, it doesn't make them a hypocrite just because they don't eat meat. We have options today—real choices—and if choosing one specific path helps prevent animal suffering, then taking that antibiotic isn't a wasted effort. At the end of the day, antibiotics are used occasionally, whereas opting out of meat saves animals on a daily basis.

Disperadun said:From what I can gather, soy is basically the primary source of essential proteins for most people—which also happens to be one of the most common GMO products out there. They tend to splice in genes from things like fish and stuff like that...

The soy I buy actually carries a certification—I'm pretty sure even the brands at Whole Foods have labels explicitly stating they are GMO-free.

If you want products that are truly non-GMO, you have to look for that USDA Organic certification. It’s the only way to be sure. Personally, when I hit up my local Whole Foods, I tend to stick to specific things—seitan, some vegetable spreads, and various vegan beverages (that oat milk is honestly addictive). Everything else? I just pick up at the standard grocery stores. Honestly, I doubt any specialty health food store could even afford to carry GMO products. If word ever got out that they were stocking them, they’d be out of business before the week was over.

Wait, you're a vegan, right?

So, you take those B12 supplements?

The ones that were tested on animals, I mean.

🤣

Maria Moore4 said:Wait, you're a vegan, right?

So, you take those B12 supplements?

You know—the ones tested on animals?

🤣

I don't take any pills.
Besides, B12 is already added to soy milk.