Soul and Spirit

But really, haven't you heard? Isn't it common knowledge that God wrote the Bible?! 😲 😬

Oh, really? Look, the Bible is fine and all, but it just doesn't hold a candle to the Gita when you compare them. ☕ 😬

Does the Bible actually say that? 😁

Scripture said:and God says if you don't work, you don't eat.

Unless you're suffering from schizophrenia, hearing God speak to you isn't exactly a normal experience.🙂😍 🤣

"Quote:"

Karen Sanchez19 said:Consciousness really does shape your entire perception—it’s like you and that "self" which seems to be doing all the perceiving are both just deeply immersed in consciousness itself.😉

Exactly. It really makes you wonder—how is it that so many different individuals can be simultaneously aware of such wildly different perceptions?

Karen Sanchez19 said:Consciousness isn't just perception... it’s something much deeper than that.
Perception—it’s really just our internal thought process regarding whatever we happen to be perceiving at any given moment...
When there are thoughts, there’s also a world—and a "perception" to go along with it. It doesn't really matter if you're perceiving things from the outside looking in or processing them from deep within...

That’s a fair point. But if we're looking at perception—which animals definitely have—it really makes you wonder: do they actually have thoughts, too?

"Quote:"

Karen Sanchez19 said:Perception doesn't actually exist—not really. It’s just a continuous stream of thoughts passing through.
But honestly, that’s getting into some pretty deep territory—maybe a little too heavy to wrap our heads around right this second. Let's just set that aside for a later time when we're all feeling a bit more prepared.😁

I "think" perception might actually exist independently of our thoughts. But honestly, nothing in this thread is particularly easy to wrap your head around—actually, maybe nothing at all is. We can only really try to make sense of it all.

Karen Sanchez19 said:When you finally realize that you're actually realizing—that moment where you grasp the very nature of perception itself—that’s what I’d call "absolute realization." 😁

Once you finally realize who exactly is doing the realizing—well, that’s really where the true journey begins.🙂

hollowtrucker said:Exactly. So how is it that different individuals can be conscious of such vastly different perceptions?

Thought itself is just another individual occurrence...
The world arrives FROM consciousness—from within—regardless of what your external senses might suggest you feel.😉

That's true. But animals have perception too; do they have thoughts?

You'll NEVER know for sure.😈 😁

But honestly, whether they do or don't doesn't even matter.😁
They likely lack that sense of self... that ego. In them, everything just happens; there isn't an ego standing there thinking, "I am the one performing this action."😁

I "think" perception exists independently of thought. But nothing in this thread is easy to grasp; in fact, everything is difficult. We can only attempt to make it a little clearer.

Everything you perceive is merely the thought that it exists; otherwise, you wouldn't be aware of it. Whatever fails to enter the realm of thought simply does not exist.
And if you aren't aware of it, it doesn't exist.
Take a meteor streaking across the sky, for instance. It doesn't "exist" in your reality—you only hear the sound of "something."😁

Once you realize who is doing the perceiving, that’s when the actual understanding begins...

The idea of "absolute knowledge" is a myth. It doesn't exist. I was merely speaking in metaphors.

Once you realize who is doing the perceiving, the real learning begins...

"Absolute knowledge" is a myth. It doesn't exist. I was merely speaking in terms of approximations

Karen Sanchez19 said:Thought is also an individual thing...
The world comes FROM consciousness—it's internal—regardless of what your physical senses might be picking up on the outside.

That’s a great point. I actually "think" of thought as being analogous to a mental image in psychology—kind of like the sense of
sight; thought is essentially a sort of mental sluggishness.

Karen Sanchez19 said:but it doesn't really matter if they have it or not😁
I assume they don't have a sense of... well, an ego... in them, where everything just happens naturally without an ego thinking "I am the one doing this."

What if animals—or at least large mammals—actually do possess an ego, a personality, thoughts, and intelligence? It isn't even necessary to prove it; the real issue is showing how people love to use this supposed distinction to claim humans are conscious beings while animals are somehow "lower."

Karen Sanchez19 said:everything you perceive is just a thought, because if it wasn't, you wouldn't be aware of it... if it doesn't "enter" thought, it doesn't exist...

I have to disagree there.

Karen Sanchez19 said:and if you aren't aware of it, it doesn't exist...

Are you truly aware of the entirety of existence? Something might not exist within the sphere of our perception, but that doesn't mean it isn't real in the grand scheme of things.
Human beings are limited by their perception because our senses are inherently limited. God, however, exists beyond that kind of duality; in other words, God could "see" with ears or "sing" with hands...

Karen Sanchez19 said:if a comet flies past your eyes, for example, it doesn't exist—you only hear the sound of "something"😁

Think about the analogy here: some people have their entire lives flash before their eyes, yet they've only ever heard whispers about the soul...

hollowtrucker said:Brilliant. I suspect the thought is analogous to a psychological concept—specifically regarding the sense of
sight; a thought is essentially a kind of mental stagnation.

What if animals—or at least large mammals—possess an ego, a personality, thoughts, and intelligence? It isn't even necessary to prove it; the point is that people love to use this supposed distinction to claim humans are conscious beings while animals are merely lower life forms.

I disagree.

Are you even aware of the totality of existence? Something can be non-existent within the sphere of perception, yet remain very much real in the grand scheme of things.
Humans are trapped by their own perceptions because our senses are limited. God exists on the other side of such dualities; in other words, God could "see" with ears or "sing" with hands...

Consider this analogy: for some people, an entire lifetime flashes before their eyes, and all they ever caught a whisper of was the concept of a soul...

I'm just too exhausted for this🤣

Are you even aware of the totality of existence? Something can be non-existent within the sphere of perception, yet remain very much real in the grand scheme of things.

If you don't see it, it doesn't exist...
if you had never heard of some random guy from rural Wyoming, would he even exist?

WHERE does anything exist during a deep, dreamless sleep?😉

Humans are trapped by their own perceptions because our senses are limited. God exists on the other side of such dualities; in other words, God could "see" with ears or "sing" with hands...

God CANNOT do anything, yet can do everything..😁

And God cannot be perceived; God (as a "someone") has no perception because there is nothing outside of Him to perceive.

Yet, simultaneously, everything perceived is perceived by the I AM.

Consider this analogy: for some people, an entire lifetime flashes before their eyes, and all they ever caught a whisper of was the concept of a soul...

If nobody had ever told them about it, the soul wouldn't even exist for them... we are just talking about illusions and imagined concepts... spare me.
😁

Karen Sanchez19 said:Honestly, I’m just feeling completely drained—I think I've finally hit a wall where I just can't deal with any more of this today.🤣

That’s simply because I’m right.😘

Karen Sanchez19 said:Where does truth actually exist when you’re drifting through that deep, dreamless sleep?😉

This is exactly what I’ve been getting at. If there isn't some form of consciousness or a functioning mind present during deep sleep—I mean, really think about it—how is it even possible for you to wake up feeling alive?
Because the soul is the true source of consciousness and life—and let's be honest, it’s something that never truly sleeps (unless creation itself eventually ceases to exist, perhaps).

When you finally wake up from that deep, heavy sleep—you know the kind where everything feels a bit fuzzy—try not to immediately start reloading all those old memories, impressions, and ego-driven projections back into your head. If you can manage to stay clear of that mental clutter for just a moment, you might actually remain grounded in your soul-consciousness. Or, if you’re more of an atheist, let's just call it staying centered in a "clear mind."

Karen Sanchez19 said:God can do nothing—and yet, He can do everything.

Karen Sanchez19—master theologian!🙂

Karen Sanchez19 As I was reading what was said— (I can't help but think about how much this reminds me of that one discussion we had last month regarding similar topics...) It really makes you wonder where we draw the line between personal conviction and shared understanding. It’s one of those things that feels simple on the surface, but once you start peeling back the layers, there’s so much nuance involved. I’ve always felt that when we approach these conversations, we should try to maintain that balance—staying grounded in our own perspectives while leaving enough room to actually hear what someone else is putting on the table. Anyway, I’m curious to see how everyone else interprets this. Is it as straightforward as it seems, or am I overthinking the whole thing?
I mean, honestly—God? It’s almost impossible to wrap your head around. If you look at it from a certain angle, God doesn't have perception in the way we understand it, because there’s nothing "outside" of Him to actually perceive. There isn't any external reality out there for Him to process.

I’m honestly not sure if this sentence can even be deciphered—it's a bit of a mess—but I can certainly give it a shot:

Everyone really ought to take a moment to sit down and ask themselves:
What exactly falls outside my perception?

God possesses absolute perception. Even if you aren't aware of every single thought drifting through your mind, God knows—every one of them. It’s also worth noting that the soul remains conscious of every subtle movement of the mind, the ego, and the intellect; though, unfortunately, that connection doesn't seem to work the other way around.
I definitely agree—our perception of God is limited, not the other way around. It’s just one of those fundamental truths, isn't it? We’re trying to grasp something infinite with finite minds, which is always going to be a bit of a struggle.

Karen Sanchez19 said:And at the same time, everything being perceived... it all just perceives that I AM.

That’s a great point! We established earlier that perception is essentially born from that interplay between the mind and our senses—and that this connection gets all muddied up by signals coming from the false ego. If we view perception as something subordinate to consciousness, it really makes you wonder: what exactly sits above consciousness?

Karen Sanchez19 said:It’s funny how people behave—no one would ever actually have the guts to tell them that the soul simply doesn't exist in their worldview. We spend all this time talking in circles, chasing these grand illusions based on nothing more than made-up concepts... honestly, we should just let it all go.
😁

Just let go of the illusion... Perception of the soul doesn't mean much to those who don't actually possess one; however, the soul exists regardless of perception, thought patterns, or any kind of illusion.
😉

hollowtrucker said:It’s simply because I am correct.😘

🤣 I had a feeling that Karen Sanchez19's post would stir up this kind of reaction 😬

Though, if one considers the matter closely, perhaps it is less about the reaction itself and more about the fact that Karen Sanchez19 didn't actually care about her own opinion to begin with 😉—quite a departure from certain other individuals present here 😘

David Miller15 said:I honestly think it’s more about the fact that Karen Sanchez19 didn't even care enough to have an actual opinion

Poly—your music taste is just too clever for its own good; for you, I've got nothing but: 😘 😘 😘

Karen Sanchez19, seriously, who on earth are you planning to enlighten?

Ahu Soph Nia said:Poly, I've curated some tracks just for you: 😘 😘 😘

David Miller15 is absolutely melting 😍

David Miller15 said:Listen, Grizzly, I’m not sure who exactly you think you're educating here.

Honestly, if there were actually anyone worth enlightening—and if free will weren't just a convenient little myth we tell ourselves—then maybe we'd have something substantial to discuss.😬

polyhymnia said:🤣 I had a feeling Karen Sanchez19's post would stir the pot like this 😬

It’s less about the argument and more about how Karen Sanchez19 didn't even care about their own take 😉 compared to certain others lurking here 😘

😉 😁 😁

Exactly... a rare moment of actual insight from someone who knows what's actually happening 😍 😁

Quincy:

It’s simply because I am right.

Nobody is right; these are all just mental "illusions"😉

Quincy:

This is, obviously, proof of my thesis. If there is no consciousness or mind during deep sleep, how is it even possible to wake up alive? Because the source of consciousness and life is the soul, which does not sleep (except perhaps when creation itself ceases to exist).

CONSCIOUSNESS IS

spare me the souls and the nonsense and all this trite chatter😉 😁

Quincy:

When you wake from deep sleep, if you don't reload your memories, impressions, ego-projections, and such, you would remain grounded in soul-consciousness. (Read: "pure mind" if you're an atheist)

soul-consciousness🤣

just drop these stupid terms...

consciousness, period...
what soul-consciousness? what soul?

WHAT is a soul?🙄

Quincy:

What lies beyond my perception?

perception is NOT yours
"you" are merely a thought...

Quincy:

God possesses absolute perception. Even if you might not know every single thought passing through your head; God knows.

God knows nothing BECAUSE He IS everything
you can only "know" that which is separate from yourself
God is NOT "him"😉

Quincy:

Furthermore, the soul is aware of every movement of the mind, the ego, and intelligence; though the reverse clearly does not hold true. Certainly; our perception of God is limited; it certainly isn't the other way around.

more rambling

there aren't THREE PEOPLE inside you, there is ONLY ONE everywhere😉

show me a SOUL if you can, show me God if you can😉

It’s simply because I am right.

Nobody is right; these are all just mental "illusions"😉

This is, of course, proof of my thesis. If there is no consciousness or mind during deep sleep, how is it even possible to wake up alive?
Because the source of consciousness and life is the soul, which never sleeps (unless creation itself ceases, eventually).

CONSCIOUSNESS IS

forget the souls and the nonsense and all that fluff😉 😁

When you wake from deep sleep, if you don't reload those memories, impressions, ego projections, and such, you would remain grounded in soul-consciousness. (Read: "pure mind" if you're an atheist)

soul consciousness🤣

just drop those stupid terms...

consciousness, period...
what soul consciousness, what soul

WHAT is a soul🙄

What lies beyond my perception?

perception is NOT yours
"you" are merely a thought...

Quincy possesses absolute perception. Even if you may not know every single thought passing through your head; Quincy knows.

God knows nothing BECAUSE HE IS EVERYTHING
you can only "know" that which is separate from yourself
God is NOT "him"😉

Furthermore, the soul is aware of every movement of the mind, the ego, and intelligence; though the reverse clearly does not hold true.
Certainly; our perception of God is limited; by no means the other way around.

more rambling

there aren't THREE PEOPLE inside you, but ONLY ONE everywhere😉

show me a SOUL if you can, show me God if you can😉

Excellent! We established earlier that perception arises from the mind-sense connection; and that this connection is disrupted by signals from the false ego. Perception is something subordinate to consciousness; what is superior to consciousness?

trklej trkelj

😁

The soul is an invisible concept to those lacking the capacity to sense it; yet, the soul remains an objective reality, independent of perception, mental constructs, or mere illusion.

It’s a paradox. This hasn't even touched the surface of logic, let alone reached any level of actual intellect.😁

Everything you're saying is pure fiction.
Your "soul" is nothing more than a neurological byproduct—a mental image rather than a tangible entity. It’s no different from how believers view Quincy.

Karen Sanchez19 said:Karen Sanchez19, please. Who exactly do you think you're going to enlighten?

🤣

nobody😉

Karen Sanchez19 said:Nobody is actually right—it's all just mental "illusions"

It’s true that some minds lean into the illusion while others work to dismantle it.🙂

Karen Sanchez19 said:CONSCIOUSNESS IS

just all that soul and spirit nonsense and fluff

Good luck trying to "let go" of consciousness if you can manage it.😬

Most Eastern spiritual traditions suggest that the starting point is actually silencing the mind.
Most Americans hear that and think, "Well, what would I have left then?"😲

Karen Sanchez19 said:WHAT is a soul?

An eternal living spark of the flame of God.

Karen Sanchez19 said:perception ISN'T yours
"you" are nothing more than a thought..

That’s just your own thinking talking...

Karen Sanchez19 said:God knows nothing because God IS everything
you can only "know" things that are separate from yourself
God isn't "him"😉

None of that is right.

Karen Sanchez19 said:show me a SOUL if you can, show me God if you can

I’ll do that once you show me consciousness.😎

Karen Sanchez19 said:your "soul" is just a product of the mind—an image, not "something" real—just like how God is for believers

Quite the opposite.