Soul and Spirit

David Miller15 said:Man, if Christians could actually engage in some deep, abstract philosophy without getting distracted, things would be a lot easier... but they tend to overanalyze every little thing until it's nothing but noise.🙂

So, is all that "noise" just political messaging, then?😁

bluewolf62 said:Why on earth are you guys fighting about Christianity?**

Honestly, people will find a reason to argue about anything. 😁

bluewolf62 said:why on earth are we bickering over Christianity?

It simply is what it is. 🤣 🙂 👋 🙂 🙂

The soul is merely a tool for the soul to recognize itself.
Once that soul is realized, it becomes a tool for recognizing the Spirit.
And the union of Spirit and soul? That is the final mechanism for knowing God.

What I am laying out here isn't some recycled, pre-packaged set of social norms or textbook patterns.😁

WHO IS THIS "WHO" THAT DOES THE KNOWING?!!!!!

And how on earth is it even POSSIBLE to grasp God if He is ABSOLUTE?😉 😉

Karen Sanchez19 said:everything I'm saying here is just some blown-out pattern😁

WHO IS THIS "WHO" THAT PERCEIVES!!!!!

and how is it even POSSIBLE to perceive God if He is ABSOLUTE😉 😉

So, who exactly is the one doing the perceiving?

First off—Karen Sanchez19—you really have to ask yourself: what is the actual instrument of perception?

Let’s look at something basic—we determine if an object is hard or soft through the sense of touch.
It shows us right away that this specific instrument of perception is inherently limited.

So then, what is the infinite—what can actually perceive the infinite?

How can one possibly know God if He is absolute?

Well, through absolute perception, Karen Sanchez19.

What are the methods for perceiving the absolute?

Now, those are the right questions to be asking.

It isn't philosophy—because, let's be honest, philosophy is bound by rules that nobody actually follows anyway.
It isn't religion—since religion is bound by "non-rules" that everyone feels obligated to stick to.

That leaves us with theurgy or theosophy.

hollowtrucker said:Who exactly is the one doing the perceiving?

First off, Karen Sanchez19; you have to ask yourself: what is the actual instrument of perception?

Take something basic; we determine if an object is hard or soft through touch.
We see right then; that instrument of perception is fundamentally limited.

So what, then, is the infinite; what can possibly be perceived without limits?

How is it even possible to know God if He is absolute?

Through absolute perception, Karen Sanchez19.

What methods exist for perceiving the absolute?

That is how you correctly frame the problem.

It isn't philosophy, because let me repeat: philosophy is bound by rules that nobody actually follows.
It isn't religion, because religion is bound by arbitrary non-rules that everyone blindly obeys.

That leaves us with theurgy or theosophy.

just circling back to the same nonsense🤣 😍

Through absolute perception, Karen Sanchez19.

🤣 🤣
Perception is an act, and every single act of change is LIMITED.😉
To perceive, you need consciousness... and the Absolute cannot fit into any single observation.😉

That leaves us with theurgy or theosophy.
hollowtrucker is offline Report offensive post Reply with quote

And you honestly think you're going to discover some new set of rules next?🤣

Karen Sanchez19 said:you're talking nonsense again

Whoa, watch how you word things—some of those comments are landing a bit sideways.

Karen Sanchez19 said:enlightenment is an act of doing, and every single act of change is LIMITED😉
for enlightenment, you need awareness... and no single observation can ever contain the ABSOLUTE

Enlightenment through the actions of which organ, Karen Sanchez19?
And where does consciousness actually originate?

The Absolute fits within absolute observation—which, by definition, lies beyond the reach of the mind and the ego.

Karen Sanchez19 said:and you think you're just going to realize some new set of rules

Aside from the fact that you're gaining insight right here on this forum... what "rules" are you even following?😘

hollowtrucker said:Watch your mouth. You’re putting words in people's mouths, and frankly, you're getting them wrong. Some of those accusations are landing on the completely wrong side of the line.

In case you didn't notice, I went ahead and added that small detail.😍
What if I had just gone with that small one? 😘 In this particular scenario, that would essentially mean you just kissed my ass.🤣 🤣

No offense intended, but I hope you’re joking. If you aren't, then your lack of tact is going to come across as nothing short of insulting. 🤣

What organ is responsible for the act of realization? Or rather, what part of our biological machinery actually processes an epiphany?
Where does consciousness actually come from?

Consciousness doesn't just materialize out of thin air. It doesn't simply pop into existence like a glitch in a computer program. No. There is always a source. Always a precursor.😁

The Absolute enters a state of absolute observation; it exists entirely beyond the reach of the mind or the ego.

And what exactly—and I mean *exactly*—is this supposed "precipitate" that can trigger an assault?!😉

Aside from what I pick up through the forums, what unwritten rules am I actually living by?

When it comes to true enlightenment, there are no rulebooks. No step-by-step manuals. No foolproof recipes handed down from some authority figure to guarantee success. It isn't like following a blueprint to build a house in Chicago or sticking to a strict diet plan. You can't just check off a list and expect the light to turn on. ☕😁

Karen Sanchez19 said:So, I went ahead and added that little icon—just in case you hadn't noticed it yet.😍
I wonder what would have happened if I’d gone with that smaller model instead—just a thought. 😘 In this case, that would basically mean you just gave me a pat on the back—or more accurately, a kiss on my ass.🤣 🤣

It’s either you or me...

Karen Sanchez19 said:No offense intended, but I hope you’re just joking around here... because if you aren't, then people are going to start taking it personally. 🤣

I'm not kidding around.

Karen Sanchez19 said:Consciousness doesn't just pop out of thin air—it’s got to come from somewhere, right?😁

That’s a beautiful way to put it—really hits home. Consciousness isn't something that's "born" into us; it’s already there, self-sustaining and infinitely eternal from the very start.

What could actually exist beyond consciousness? I’ve been sitting here wondering if self-awareness is the ceiling—or maybe just the starting line. (?)

Look, I don't want to dive too deep into this since we haven't really gone there yet—but think about it—consciousness itself actually hinges on how the observer perceives that consciousness. In other words, it isn't just "consciousness" doing the work; rather, perception is entirely dependent on the consciousness of the one being perceived, which then circles back to the consciousness of the perceiver. It’s a bit of a loop, isn't it? Heh.
Does that sound lame? Honestly, it really isn't.

It really comes down to how people perceive things—like, some folks can actually see people flying, while others just can't. The ones who have that vision don't look at someone mid-air and think they’re breaking the laws of nature; they just accept it. But the ones who lack that perception? They can't help but overthink it and judge.
Up until around the 17th century, you wouldn't really find any "miracles" in Tibet—instead, there were just these everyday, strange occurrences involving various Buddha incarnations.
At that same point in time—say, over in Thailand—there was only one Buddha, right? Just the historical Siddhartha Gautama. (?)

So, there’s this idea that there must be something existing beyond our conscious awareness—something sitting just above the level of mere perception. But what exactly is it? It's one of those deep, lingering questions that keeps you up at night, isn't it? Is it a higher plane of existence, or maybe just the vast, untapped depths of the subconscious? I'd love to hear everyone's take on this.

Karen Sanchez19 said:Wait, hold on—what exactly are we talking about here? Who or what is this "TKO" thing, and more importantly, what on earth could possibly cause a precipitate to absolutely assault the perception?! I feel like I missed a page of the manual or something.

Most people tend to just notice things in terms of opposites—like plus or minus, good versus evil, or peaks and valleys—without ever stopping to ask themselves the deeper question: who exactly is doing the perceiving? They see the duality, sure, but they miss the observer behind it all.
Then, at some point, certain people start to notice that underlying neutrality—and that's when they finally grasp the concept of the Trinity.
And so on...
So, even if we set aside the whole question of *who* exactly is doing the perceiving—it still holds true that there is an act of perception happening. There is a realization taking place.
Maybe the famous Descartes was just mistranslated all along. (?)

I am getting to know myself; therefore, I exist.

Karen Sanchez19 said:When it comes to true insight—that deep, soul-level realization—there really isn't a rulebook or a set recipe you can just follow to get results. It’s not like following a manual for assembling furniture or a strict diet plan; you can't just check off boxes and expect enlightenment to show up at your door. It’s much more fluid than that. ☕😁

That’s exactly why these rules and recipes feel so linear—they're essentially just mental frameworks used to navigate one's own subconscious awareness.
In other words, there are these structured guidelines and mental shortcuts designed to help us grasp geometric patterns and cognitive abilities.
😛 😉

David Miller15 said:I was just asking for the WORD to start forming SENTENCES from its own "head." Not based on some made-up science or a fictional god who doesn't even distinguish between GOOD and EVIL😲 😢

But look, now I’m sitting here wondering, "Why would God kick us out of Eden if He can't tell good from evil?!" But hey, you don't believe in God, so I guess it doesn't matter.

And another thing, I'll say it again... Sin is an insult to God. That's a Christian concept. If you don't believe in the Holy Word, I don't really get why you're even bothering to ask stuff like "what is sin" anyway.

Look, I know what sin is. And I know a few other things about sins and God, too. But the point is, it's about what I believe and what I *want* to believe—and honestly, I know from experience that this is the right path.

Man, it's like everyone watching just doesn't see it.
You're the same way. You can claim the Church is just a bunch of "sheep" or that God is just too invented to make sense of certain things. But the bottom line is, there are people out there who actually see that something is "there." And they live in that truth—they've felt it.

Anyway, it's pretty hard for me to explain any of this to you, mostly because maybe you just don't want to know.🙂

Jesse Sullivan2 said:And now I’d want to ask you, why would God cast us out of Eden if He can't even distinguish between good and evil? But then again, you don't believe in God.

Also, just to reiterate... Sin is an offense against God. That is a Christian concept. If you don't believe in the Holy Word, why are you even questioning things like "what is sin"?

Look, I know what sin is. I also know quite a few other things regarding sin and God. But the point is, I believe—and I want to believe—and I know from experience that this is the true path.

Good grief, everyone watching is blind to it.
Including you. You can claim the Church is just a flock of "sheep," or that God is far too invented just to grasp certain concepts. But the point remains: there are those of us who see that there is indeed something "there." And we live within that (even through direct experience).

Now, it is quite difficult for me to explain anything to you, perhaps because you simply don't want to know.🙂

Look: I was raised Christian; I sing in the choir every Sunday. I was a Christian and I know how it works. Actually, I was deeply, deeply involved in all of it; my faith was incredibly important to me, I adhered strictly to the "commandments," and I spent a great deal of time obsessing over the question of "sin." So, my Christian "software" is very familiar. Besides, I have a mother back home who is totally wrapped up in the world of lambs, and she will find it extremely difficult to accept the fact that her daughter might one day marry someone outside of the church or something like that.

Yes, I do not believe in God. Generally, I avoid using that term because it carries so many (unnecessary) connotations. Throughout my entire youth, I have grappled with these questions, and I can say that I "know" that "God" "exists." But I also feel that He does not. However, I suspect this isn't appropriate for this already heavily contested topic.

As for the stories about being cast out of Eden, they carry deep allegorical meanings; they are anything but literal.

Why am I talking about sin? Because that concept has, unfortunately, acquired a much broader meaning over time. Let's use your own logic: sin is an offense against God. Hmm. Okay. Do you honestly still think that God is a person?! 🙏 A "God" cannot be offended. Honestly, I barely get offended myself, so how could a PERFECT, OMNIPOTENT GOD be more easily offended than some minor muse?! 😢

Of course, there is something "there." Faith is a natural part of human development. I am not disputing that at all.
But when I am having a "serious" conversation, I couldn't care less about someone else's sacred cows, which are nothing more than mere attachments. If it bothers someone when I don't listen or read, then let them wonder "why" it bothers them. What is it within them that produces that feeling of "sacrilege"? I am familiar with that sensation. Even just a few months ago, I felt it, despite being outside of all that. Dogma carves itself under your skin, into the subconscious.

You don't need to explain it to me. Not only because I fully understand what you wrote 🥳 😎 🙂, but also because we are having a dialogue. Today, I am not in the mood for lecturing, but rather for an "exchange of views." 😬

hollowtrucker said:Who exactly is this "knower" doing all the perceiving?

First off, Karen Sanchez19, you’ve gotta ask yourself: what even is the instrument of perception?

Look, let’s keep it simple; we determine if something is hard or soft by touch.
The fact that we use touch proves our tools for understanding are inherently limited.

So, what does "unlimited" actually mean? What can be perceived without limits?

And how on earth are you supposed to perceive God if He is truly absolute?

Well, through absolute perception, Karen Sanchez19. That’s the only way.

So, what are the actual methods for grasping the absolute?

Now *that* is how you properly frame the problem.

It isn't philosophy—because, let’s be honest, philosophy is just a bunch of arbitrary rules that nobody actually follows.
It isn't religion either, since religion is just a set of rigid, non-existent rules that everyone feels forced to obey.

That leaves us with theurgy or theosophy.

Or maybe just pure self-indulgence? 🙂

Jason Johnson4 said:And what about masturbation? 🙂

Neither one nor the other. 🙂

What could possibly exist beyond consciousness? Self-awareness, perhaps. (?)

And what sits above the absolute?😉

Consciousness depends on the perception of the one doing the perceiving; in other words, consciousness isn't the variable; rather, perception depends on the consciousness of the perceived or the perceiver.
Sounds nonsensical? Well, it isn't.

I sound NONSENSICAL and I AM being nonsensical😉

Consciousness shapes your perception too; you and your "ego"—that supposed observer—are both submerged within consciousness itself.😉

So there exists something beyond consciousness, or perception; but what is it?

Consciousness isn't perception..
perception is just the thought regarding the thing being perceived..
wherever there is thought, there is a "world" and "perception"—whether you're observing from the outside or the inside....
perception doesn't actually exist.. there are only the thoughts that arise.😉
but that's getting a bit heavy to wrap one's head around.. let's save that for another time.😁

Most people notice things like plus or minus, good or evil, mountain or valley; without even asking *who* is noticing, they perceive duality.
Then some people notice neutrality and realize the trinity.
And so on...
Therefore, even without asking who perceives, there is still an act of perception.
Maybe the famous Descartes was simply mistranslated.(?)

I perceive; therefore, I am.

Once you realize WHO is perceiving, that is "absolute realization." 😁

Jesse Sullivan2 said:And here I am, tempted to ask you why God would ever kick us out of paradise if He can’t even tell right from wrong in the first place. But then again, you don't believe in God.

I don't recall being evicted from anywhere by any deity.🤣

How about you?😁 😁

David Miller15 said:neither she nor I🙂

🤣 🤣

Jason Johnson4 said:And what about masturbation? 🙂

I don't drink my grandmother's herbal tea.☕😁 😁

Balkanijan Pimp said:Krishna says: drop everything you're doing and just surrender yourself to me. 😁 😎

And then God goes, "If you aren't working, you shouldn't be eating either."

Look, I was just asking for the WORD to start spitting out actual SENTENCES from its "own" head. Not some stuff cooked up by some imaginary, made-up God who doesn't even know the difference between GOOD and EVIL
__________________
Everything I write, I write straight from the heart and for those who are humble.

The Word said:and God says that if you don't work, you shouldn't eat.

Really? Where exactly does it say that? ☕