Soul and Spirit

hollowtrucker said:Playing philosopher is the easy part.
The Absolute takes on absolute forms and absolute labels.

Ahu, what even is your brand of philosophy? Is it just total nonsense? 😬 😘 🙄

hollowtrucker said:The soul is the essence of man. Spirit is the essence of the universe. God is the essence.

So, does that mean there’s more than one essence? 😬

If God is the essence, then you can't really have multiple essences (like a human essence or a universal one...), right?

"This shows us that what we call the soul is actually just the ego. It's this weird byproduct created when two things try to merge that don't actually belong together—mostly because one of them, the body, isn't even truly 'there' in the way we think; it's essentially a mental construct. You can't have a real blend unless both parts are real. The Sage explains that mixing these two is like a bachelor getting married in a dream. In the dream, he's a real guy, but his bride isn't. When he wakes up, he realizes he's still just a bachelor, plain and simple. From this, we see that true Ownership—which is Reality—never actually became limited. It never actually turned into a 'soul' or some tiny little fragment of self. It was never truly wedded to the body. In this light, it becomes clear that the individual soul doesn't actually exist in any real sense. Any questions about the soul are kind of moot because they're built on the assumption that it exists in the first place. There is only one true Ownership, pure Consciousness, which exists outside of time. "

"The real point of this teaching is that, even though the soul isn't its own separate thing, there is an element of reality within it—that spark of conscious light that flows from the true Ownership, which we experience as 'I am.' This light doesn't actually belong to the soul; it belongs to Ownership, to Reality. That's why it has to be surrendered to Him. Once that surrender is complete, only Ownership remains. And if individuality is lost that way, it's lost to the ultimate thing.
"
😁

These quotes come from: "WHO?" - Mah Yoga - THE UPANISHAD LEGACY IN THE LIGHT OF THE TEACHINGS OF BHAGAVAN SRI RAMANIN (Chapter VI - Soul)

http://www.ramana-maharshi.org/downloads/maha_yoga.zip
http://www.geocities.com/sinkronicitet/maha_yoga.html

Jason Johnson4 said:Does that imply there’s more than one essence? 😬

If God is essence, then there can't be multiple essences (human essence, universal essence...).

"Thus we realize that the so-called soul is nothing more than the ego—a byproduct of merging two distinct elements that could never truly blend, because one of them—the body—isn't even real; it’s just a mental projection. A genuine mixture requires both elements to be real. Mixing these two, the Sage explains, is like a bachelor marrying in a dream, where the groom is real but the bride is not. When the dreamer wakes up, he finds he remains a bachelor, just as he was before. From this, it is clear that true Ownership—which is Reality—has never become limited. It never actually became a soul or a tiny little self. It was never truly wedded to the body. In this way, it is clarified that the individual soul does not exist in Reality. Any questions regarding that soul are meaningless, as they presuppose its existence. There is only one true Ownership, pure Consciousness, existing outside of time. "

"The true meaning of the teaching is this: even though the soul itself isn't a separate entity, it contains an element of reality—namely, the light of consciousness emanating from the true Ownership, which we experience as 'I am.' This light of consciousness doesn't belong to the soul; it belongs to Ownership, to Reality. Therefore, it must surrender to Him. Once surrender is complete, only that Ownership remains. And if individuality is lost in that manner, it is lost to the ultimate thing."

😁

Quotes are from: "WHO AM I?" - Mah Yoga - THE UPANISHAD LEGACY IN THE LIGHT OF THE TEACHINGS OF BHAGAVAN SRI RAMANIN (Chapter VI - The Soul)

http://www.ramana-maharshi.org/downloads/maha_yoga.zip
http://www.geocities.com/sinkronicitet/maha_yoga.html

Who are you quoting?

This comes from a student of Ramanin named Sarma 🤣 though he was posting under the handle "WHO?" 😉

Jason Johnson4 said:This came from one of Ramanin's students named Sarma🤣 though he was posting under the handle "WHO?"😉

Where on earth did you dig up that text?

Dammit, those links are broken up there 🙂

Jason Johnson4 said:For crying out loud, the links are right there above🙂

I can't see the forest for the trees here.☕

🙂

Jason Johnson4 said:If we assume that God is Essence itself, then there really can't be any other essences out there—whether we're talking about the essence of a human being, the universe, or anything else. It just wouldn't add up.

It’s honestly a waste of time when we let words get in the way and cloud everything up.

If you take the time to actually sit down and read through my posts—slowly, mind you—you'll see that there aren't any contradictions here. Everything stays consistent.

Jason Johnson4 said:Even if we don't view the soul as some sort of separate, isolated entity—and I don't think anyone really should—there is still this undeniable element of Reality tucked inside it. It’s that spark of conscious light that flows directly from the true Ownership, which is what we experience as that fundamental "I am" feeling.

What Sarma is getting at is that while the soul might be eternal, it can't really exist in total isolation. It’s more like the soul manifests through the Spirit—and then you have God manifesting through both the Soul and the Spirit, all according to His own will.
God is that which exists independently of both Spirit and Soul—whereas the Soul itself remains fundamentally dependent upon God.
The Soul can actually reach a point where it becomes independent from the Spirit—but the Spirit? It can never truly be independent from God.

hollowtrucker said:Words shouldn't be this confusing.

If you actually bother to read my posts slowly, you'll see there isn't a single contradiction here.

What Sarma is getting at is this: the soul might be eternal, sure, but it can't just exist in a vacuum. The soul manifests through the Spirit, and God manifests through both the Soul and the Spirit—by His own design.
God exists independently of the Spirit and the Soul. The Soul, however, is dependent on God.
The Soul might even manage to become independent of the Spirit, but the Spirit? It can never break free from God.

It’s like a basic analogy:

think of a Pokémon like Pikachu evolving into Raichu; Raichu is clearly a step up from Pikachu.🙂😍 😁

hollowtrucker said:There’s really no point in letting words muddy the waters.

If you actually take the time to sit down and read through my posts, you'll see I'm not contradicting myself at all.

What Sarma is getting at is this: even though the soul is eternal, it can't just exist in a vacuum. The soul manifests through the Spirit, and God manifests through both the Soul and the Spirit according to His own will.
God is the one thing that doesn't rely on the Spirit or the Soul. But the Soul? It’s dependent on God.
The Soul might even find a way to become independent of the Spirit, but the Spirit can never be independent of God.

Ahu, just keep doing your thing. There is nothing else out there besides the ETERNAL OWNERSHIP.

You can try selling that philosophy to someone else, but it won't work on me.😉

Jason Johnson4 said:Ahu, just keep grinding. There is nothing else besides the ETERNAL SELF.

You can try selling that kind of philosophy to someone else 😉

There is no such thing as a self 😍 😁

Ownership, Karen Sanchez19 😉

Jason Johnson4 said:Ahu, isn't everything you write just some kind of (loser) philosophy?

Honestly, all of this is foundational. It’s about building the very axis of dreams through those foundations—not just some abstract philosophy.

Karen Sanchez19 said:One single being?
But what actually constitutes a "being"?

A being is simply anything that is alive. And life? Life is Spirit. God is that one living being—the Master, or the ultimate Source of Life.

Karen Sanchez19 said:The Absolute has no "labels" or inherent shapes of its own.

What I'm trying to get at is that it's incredibly difficult to perceive the Absolute on its own—since the Absolute doesn't possess distinct traits or shapes you could just point to with your finger.
However, the fact that labels and forms exist—or that we perceive them as such—is clearly the will of the Absolute. This gives us a clear insight: even if labels and shapes aren't inherent to it, the Absolute is the very essence of that form itself.😉

Jason Johnson4 said:Ownership, Karen Sanchez19😉

The threads of Ownership...

I want to tell hollowtrucker that regardless of what you label it, "that" thing remains nameless...

So, hollowtrucker, just drop the theories.😁 Does God sit above or below? Is it up or down? What defines the soul or the Spirit? It’s all noise.
In the most basic sense, you can funnel all consciousness toward the Absolute, or God, or Ownership.😁

But if you "refuse" to play philosopher, then those distinctions don't matter. They aren't needed.😁

hollowtrucker said:Basically, what they're getting at is that you aren't going to just stumble upon the Absolute on your own, mostly because the Absolute doesn't really have any distinct features or shapes you can just point to with your finger.

The "I AM" is the absolute, you chief of clouded eyes.🙂

Being is simply whatever possesses life. Life is Spirit. God is a single living entity—the Master, the very Source of Life itself.

Just relax. Take a deep breath, let it out, and stop trying to rationalize God with these ridiculous explanations. God is inexplicable...

Besides, what does it actually change for you whether He is a being or not?🙄

Karen Sanchez19 said:nothingness itself..

I really want to tell hollowtrucker that even if you try to put a label on it, calling it "that" is just... well, it’s unnameable, isn't it?

So, honestly, hollowtrucker, you can drop all those deep theories😁 about whether God is above us, below us, up there, down there, or what the hell constitutes a soul versus a spirit and all that jazz.
In most cases, you can just merge your entire consciousness into the Absolute, or God, or the Self, whatever you want to call it.😁

But hey, if you "DON'T FEEL LIKE" getting all philosophical, then those distinctions don't matter and you don't even need them.😁

😉

The point being made here is simple: you aren't going to stumble upon the Absolute just by looking around. It doesn't have some tangible shape or defining feature you can just point to with your finger.
Yet, the fact that these labels and forms exist—that we perceive them at all—is proof enough of the Absolute's will. It’s a clear signal. Even if those shapes aren't the thing itself, the Absolute is the very essence behind the form.

Forms are just...

There is only one core truth.

Think about a sculpture. Is the essence the shape? No. It's the stone. The raw matter, not the silhouette. Just a small analogy, but it holds weight.😁

Hey bears and deer—hope you all are doing wonderful.

Karen Sanchez19 said:Just relax, take a deep breath, let it out, and stop trying to wrap your head around God's silly little explanations—because God is ultimately inexplicable...

Thanks, Karen Sanchez19—I'm just breathing in and out that eternal spirit of divine beauty!🙂

Karen Sanchez19 said:Besides, what does it matter to you whether He is a being or not?

Not much at all, really.

Karen Sanchez19 said:Isn't the essence of a sculpture stone... stone as the substance rather than the shape? But look at this as a tiny little analogy...😁

Now, if we look at the bigger analogy: even though a sculpture is made of stone, its true essence is spiritual.
But that doesn't mean the stone itself is its spiritual form.
It's like how the soul is one expression of God and the spirit is another divine work; that doesn't mean God is defined by the form and essence of the soul or the spirit.

Jason Johnson4 said:"I AM" is the Absolute.

That's absolutely true when the Absolute claims it. And it's just as true for Him when I claim it right now.🙄

The soul says, "I am."
The spirit says, "I am That."
God says, "I Am Who I Am."

This isn't some academic philosophy debate; it's a mystical discourse. Honestly, anyone trying to argue with mysticism is probably just losing their mind.😍 🤣

None at all.

So HOW exactly do you KNOW it’s a beast?🙄

It’s absolute truth when the Absolute claims it. It’s just as true when I claim it right now.

The soul says, "I am."
The spirit says, "I am That."
God says, "I am Who I Am."

EVERYTHING that exists is claimed by the Absolute...
whenever this nonsense you're spouting is claimed by the Absolute...

I AM what you claim, what you think, and what you say.😁