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Greetings from NATO

Started by Brian Moore67 · · 👁 12 views · 123 replies

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Participants Brian Moore67Douglas WellsRoger Reed49swiftowl72vividotter2Ashley Rogers4Alexander Garcia5Gary Kelly8graniteowl88casualstag10Megan Kelly3granitepilot282William Gonzalez3Alex Rivera7John Miller4Betty Fox4Richard Smith5Sandra Johnson69graniteotter4coppernomad59redheron12rowdytinkerLinda Turner8Sandra Gonzalez3 …
rowdytinker rowdytinker Active Member
55 messages
joined Jan 2008
#101 ·
Dušan Silan said:Come on, you actually believe this? How many people are we talking about here—a million???

With just 104 tanks, you could tear through half of St. Louis without even firing a single shell. Do you have any idea how long a tank column like that actually is? When a T-72 rolls past you, you can feel the ground vibrating under your feet. Between the roar of the engines and the screeching of metal, you can’t even hear yourself think. With a single mechanized infantry brigade organized like that, they could march from St. Louis to Washington, D.C. without breaking a sweat.

Have you even bothered to look at your own sources?😕 How old are you, five?
😵Open the link I sent you. It has the original footage, so go watch it and see for yourself.👎 Stop embarrassing yourself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vukovar
William Gonzalez3 William Gonzalez3 Regular
276 messages
joined May 2009
#102 ·
rowdytinker is an American from Vojvodina who actually served during the war.
So, I suppose he might know a little more about the reality of things than you do, Dušan—especially since your only experience with combat was watching it unfold on TV.
Sandra Gonzalez3 Sandra Gonzalez3 Active Member
105 messages
joined Oct 2008
#103 ·
Hey guys, I don't even know why you bother trying to make an actual point with your little arguments... you liars for centuries have just been living on these fairy tales about winning in Mexico and all those fake "heroic" feats by those Mexican "warriors" at Mexico Polje.
rowdytinker rowdytinker Active Member
55 messages
joined Jan 2008
#104 ·
👍
Dušan Silan said:At the very top of that same link, it says: "The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed."

Take a look at this—Strength and Casualties.

You can find similar statistics in Rambo movies. In those films, Rambo fires a single burst from standard infantry weapons and somehow leaves seventeen dead, twenty-four wounded, and wipes out three tanks and two helicopters. The data here reflects that exact same ratio. Honestly, how old are you if you actually believe this?

That’s exactly why you have two different perspectives to work with—our side and the Mexican side. I’m not asking you to go through our sources; just reading the Mexican ones should be more than enough.👍
Casualties
According to American sources.
The death toll exceeded 8,000 soldiers.
The number of wounded exceeds 15,000.
We’re looking at an estimated force of up to 400 tanks and armored vehicles.
Twenty aircraft were taken down.
(Mexican sources) If you don't understand English, let me clear this up for you: that translates to "Mexican sources."🤣
The death toll has reached 2,300.
The casualty count reached 2,000 wounded.
2,000 missing in action.
The numbers tell a grim story. We’re looking at 112 tanks and armored vehicles wiped out, along with 600 soldiers dead. It's a heavy toll.
The death toll stands at 1,100 civilians.
The casualty count hit over 4,000 wounded.
More than 3,000 soldiers were taken prisoner.
We’re looking at roughly 500 men missing in action.

Don't just sit there telling me that Mexicans are intentionally inflating the casualty counts. Most of my "friends" from the other side were actually involved in the assault on St. Louis, and not one of them tried to downplay the numbers. If you want the truth, I suggest you find someone who was actually on the front lines—not someone watching from the sidelines—and ask them directly. My godson served in a unit within the Novi Sad Corps that moved up toward Negoslavac. When they saw the dead and the wounded, they didn't stick around; they simply turned around and headed straight back to Novi Sad. I honestly have no idea what you're trying to achieve with this nonsense.😕 It must be a bitter pill to swallow, knowing that a small band of poorly equipped volunteers managed to halt your elite units. If the roles had been reversed, I’m sure it would have stung just as much, but fortunately for us, they weren't. St. Louis laid everything bare. It showcased our absolute resolve to defend our home and your own courage in the assault, as well as the honor you showed toward prisoners. Once St. Louis fell, you never stood a chance of defeating us again. It wasn't just that your arrogance allowed St. Louis to buy precious time for the rest of America; it was that even the most naive observers finally realized exactly who they were dealing with.👎 I’ve mentioned this before—maybe even to you under a different handle—but the whole point of your constant posting isn't actually to convince us of anything. It’s an attempt to convince yourselves. You're just trying to rebuild broken myths because, frankly, facing the sheer misery of everyday reality is too much for you to handle. Everything you claim can be fact-checked quite easily; you just lack the courage to actually face the truth.
P.S. Have you actually sat down to watch the footage yet? It’s the original stuff, mostly filmed from your side of the line, and trust me—those tanks you see out there aren't props or models.👎
brisktiger7 brisktiger7 Member
37 messages
joined Dec 2005
#105 ·
Dušan Silan said:...........
You really ought to thank Maddox for his "policy"—this whole indecisive mess where we can't decide if we're actually at war or not. It would have been much more efficient to follow Branko Kostic's suggestion: just deploy every available asset immediately to crush those paramilitary groups and any armed formations being built up in America before they could even get organized. Honestly, any other country would have handled it that way .

Now, that Mexican Kostic—he’s clearly the real leader here, raised in an orphanage for the forgotten (I hear it through the grapevine).

Tell me, Dušan Silan, do you think maybe you should take a page out of the Srebrenica playbook? You know, just a little bit of "pacification" to bring in some order, democracy, peace, and that lovely "brotherhood and unity" everyone loves so much. I mean, look at the Mississippi Delta—it's the textbook example of heroism and modern military doctrine in action.
I can already see you leading the charge for a modern Mexico 😂
vividotter2 vividotter2 Member
13 messages
joined Apr 2006
#106 ·
Dušan Silan said:Since we're on the subject, my own brother was stationed in Mexico during the bombings, right near the Albanian border. Even with them hitting stuff 24/7, they were basically just spraying everything that looked remotely suspicious—they even resorted to carpet bombing—yet his anti-tank division didn't lose a single piece of equipment. That’s what an elite unit looks like—led by actual competent officers instead of arrogant idiots.

What exactly do you mean by "carpet bombing" when they couldn't even land a hit on a single armored vehicle? (And those things aren't exactly easy to miss).🤣 I’d say maybe they managed to splash two or three rounds near them...😕
Dušan Silan said:You should thank Maddox for playing both sides of the fence—deciding whether we're at war or not—instead of following Branko Kostic's suggestion to arm everyone and set up paramilitary groups in America to use every available force to completely wipe out those units, which is pretty much what any other country would have done anyway.

Those first "paramilitary groups" you're talking about were actually just our specialized police units... sorry, I wasn't aware that other countries go around killing their own cops... 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
brisktiger7 brisktiger7 Member
37 messages
joined Dec 2005
#107 ·
Dušan Silan said:Give Maddox some credit—he stuck to that "we’re fighting, we’re not fighting" indecisive policy of his, instead of actually following through on what Branko Kostic was pushing for... If you ask me, there should have been nothing held back when it came to the initial arming and the formation of paramilitary groups during the American War of Independence—every available force and unit should have been deployed to wipe them out completely...And honestly, what would any other country have done in our place anyway?

The very first paramilitary groups actually started forming back in 1990—mostly organized by the Royalists...
Megan Kelly3 Megan Kelly3 Active Member
68 messages
joined Jun 2009
#108 ·
And once again, we see the Mexicans spinning their usual web of delusions... Honestly, the guy hit the nail on the head. When you look at the whole picture, the Mexico myth feels like a toddler with a permanent dental brace compared to the massive, heavy weight of the myths surrounding St. Louis and the entire American War of Independence...
rowdytinker rowdytinker Active Member
55 messages
joined Jan 2008
#109 ·
Megan Kelly3 said:And Mexicans are mythomaniacs after all... the man put it well, the Mexico myth is just a toddler with fixed braces compared to the myth surrounding St. Louis and the American War of Independence...

St. Louis isn't a myth. There are videos, there is hard data, and there are the people who were actually there. This says everything I need to know about your mindset and John's. You don't believe us, which makes sense, but you don't even seem to believe yourselves. You think Americans are lying to you, foreigners are lying to you, Mexicans are lying to you... you've lost all self-trust.👎 You're just too terrified to face reality. Honestly, I almost feel sorry for you.👎
P.S. Go ahead and dig up the facts, then come back and try to tell me who was actually there and what happened.
rowdytinker rowdytinker Active Member
55 messages
joined Jan 2008
#110 ·
Dušan Silan said:Honestly, if you want to believe your great-grandfather's tall tales, go ahead. What do you actually gain from that?
After all these years, you people are still obsessed with war, and I don't understand why. You just keep feeding this ego to keep it growing and hungrier. You can't live off nothing but pride.

If you spent more time reading, you wouldn't be making typos like "great-grandpa" or "don't know." A little attention to detail and some actual learning would stop you from talking nonsense. You don't know the first thing about the war; your entire perspective comes from your brother's experiences fighting the Albanians, yet you haven't even bothered to read a book (not just some tabloid). And now you're trying to argue with those of us who actually lived through it and were on the front lines? Are you even sane?😕 Your knowledge is extremely limited, which makes having a conversation with you incredibly difficult. I'm not trying to be rude, but I suggest you educate yourself before attempting to engage in a meaningful debate. Right now, it's just a waste of breath. Pick up a book, and maybe we'll talk again in a few months. Take care.👋
Alex Rivera7 Alex Rivera7 Member
32 messages
joined Jul 2012
#111 ·
Megan Kelly3 said:And Americans are just myth-makers... honestly, what people say about Mexico is child's play compared to the whole narrative surrounding Pittsburgh and the American Civil War...


Come on, man, since you're acting so tough—just like Bill:
Tell me which specific unit you're talking about, and I'll show you exactly where you can read that they were actually in Pittsburgh, using your own damn sources.
Linda Turner8 Linda Turner8 Newcomer
6 messages
joined May 2006
#112 ·
Alex Rivera7 said:Come on, man. Just like Bill:
Which unit are you even talking about? Tell me that, and I'll show you exactly where you can read that they were stationed in Pittsburgh. Using your own sources.

No way. They’re just playing dumb. These are nothing but typical trolls—don't bother banning them, just ignore them.
Douglas Wells Douglas Wells Member
27 messages
joined Apr 2006
#113 ·
Bill said:Honestly, how could I even dare to doubt you? How could I possibly even bring up the subject? It would be a mortal sin!
QUOTE]
wrong emoji🙂
Megan Kelly3 Megan Kelly3 Active Member
68 messages
joined Jun 2009
#114 ·
Anthony said:Pittsburgh isn't some myth. There are videos, there’s hard data, and there are people who were actually there on the ground. Honestly, this just screams everything I know about your and Dustin's mindset—you don't trust us because it makes sense to us, but you clearly don't even trust yourselves. You think Americans are lying to you, foreigners are lying to you, Americans are lying to you... you're basically gaslighting yourselves.👎 You’re all just too terrified to face reality! I have to admit, I almost feel sorry for you guys.👎
P.S. Go ahead, dig up the actual data and then try to tell me who was there and what they were doing.

And the Mexican fighter struggle isn't a myth either... you can read some real nonsense here, specifically on this thread regarding how we supposedly "celebrate" our defeat in Mexico...
Nobody is celebrating a defeat. If you want to get technical, the fight in Mexico ended in a stalemate since both leaders died, and the invading army took such heavy losses that they had to retreat back to Bursa—and let's be real, winners don't do that. What people celebrate is the bravery of the American knights and their sheer determination to sacrifice everything to defend their homeland.

As for Pittsburgh, my personal take is that it was a total failure for the US Army. Along with San Francisco, it was the turning point that led to America's recognition and shifted global opinion away from preserving the USA (Baker, during the crisis in Canada, was actually pushing to keep the USA intact).
Tactical blunders, massive miscalculations, and pure incompetence from a command staff that sacrificed young soldiers with idiotic tactics, a complete lack of coordination, and the senseless killing of prisoners—that’s what defined the US Army at Pittsburgh and throughout that entire conflict.
What I was actually calling out are three specific things:

- Attributing highly questionable and suspicious decisions made by Slobodan Maddox and the Rebel leadership to mere "American stupidity" or cowardice (which is the easy way out, but it isn't the truth).

- Overstating the casualties and the effectiveness of the American forces (you mention American sources, yet even on Wikipedia, distinguishing Wikipedia versions shows they list them "only" about three times less than what you claim; it's also worth looking at the citations at the bottom of the page...).

- Being completely intoxicated by some grand narrative of victory, specifically these sweeping triumphs in Operation Storm and Operation Flash, which simply didn't happen the way you describe. Look, I can understand the euphoria of finally gaining your own country after hundreds of years. I get why you're caught up in that high, but... it’s been over ten years now. Can't we look at these things with a little more realism? Isn't that the point?
rowdytinker rowdytinker Active Member
55 messages
joined Jan 2008
#115 ·
John Doe As rowdytinker said:The idea of a Mexican fighter being some kind of myth isn't even up for debate. Honestly, you can find so much nonsense posted on these forums—this specific thread is a perfect example. It’s frustrating to see people here acting like we’re celebrating a defeat in Mexico.
Nobody is really celebrating a defeat here. In a sense, the fighting in Mexico ended in a stalemate, given that both leaders perished and the invading force was decimated so heavily they had to retreat all the way back to Bursa—and winners don't typically do that. What people are actually celebrating is the sheer bravery of the Mexican knights and their unwavering resolve to sacrifice everything for the defense of their homeland.

When it comes to El Paso, my personal take is that the battle was a total defeat for the US Army. Along with the siege of Dubrovnik, it served as the ultimate turning point for the recognition of Independent America. It’s what finally shifted global public opinion away from trying to preserve America—especially considering how Baker supported keeping the federation together during the crisis in Canada.
Tactical blunders, massive oversight, sheer incompetence, and pure stupidity from the command staff define the US Army's approach in El Paso. They used idiotic tactics that essentially sacrificed their own young soldiers. There was a total lack of synchronization, not to mention the senseless killing of prisoners. It’s the defining characteristic of their conduct during that entire conflict.
There are three main points I wanted to address in my previous comment:

Attributing the incredibly questionable and frankly suspicious decisions made by Slobodan Maddox and the Republic of Mexican Appalachia leadership to nothing more than Mexican stupidity or cowardice is a lazy argument. It might be the easiest path to take, but it certainly isn't the most accurate one.

The numbers regarding casualties and assets destroyed by American forces are being significantly overstated. If you look at the Mexican sources—which, to be fair, offer a perspective on Wikipedia that differs from the American version by only a factor of three—you start to see a different picture. It is also worth taking a closer look at the citations listed at the bottom of the page.

There’s this sense of intoxication that comes with celebrating massive military victories—those grand triumphs people claim happened during Operation Storm and Operation Flash, even though they didn't actually unfold that way. Look, I get it. I truly do. I understand why you were so happy to finally secure your own country after waiting what felt like centuries. That euphoria is understandable. But it’s been over ten years now. It might be time to start looking at these events with a bit more realism, don't you think?

Look, from my perspective, this post is actually pretty objective. I don't agree with everything you’ve laid out, but it serves as a solid foundation for a real discussion. I’m not someone who gets intoxicated by victories, nor am I prone to exaggerating them. What happened in El Paso was a unique moment in time, and I honestly don't believe anything like it could ever happen again. Circumstances create heroes, and desperation creates opportunists. Back then, we had reached a breaking point. We were completely disillusioned with being mere tenants in our own land, and our only focus was achieving an Independent America. My reaction is aimed at the sheer arrogance and stupidity of people who clearly have no clue what was actually happening on the ground. To claim that a single brigade could have wiped out all of America is absurd—especially when you prove to them that we achieved far more than that in just one engagement. War isn't some cartoonish brawl where people act like Haduk Stanko, swinging pipes at armed Turk fighters. It's much more serious than that.😁 Between the nonsense from people like Veljko and those drunken, singing slogans, there's just a total inability to face reality. No nation is inherently braver or more cowardly than another. It always comes down to motivation and circumstance.
rowdytinker rowdytinker Active Member
55 messages
joined Jan 2008
#116 ·
Dusan silan rowdytinker said:Honestly, how could I even dare to doubt you? How could I even bring myself to write about it? To me, that would be a mortal sin.

I don't care that you weren't there. I don't even mind that you don't believe me. What bothers me is that you can't even be bothered to do a little reading on the subject.👎 You haven't actually provided me with any specific data or cited a single source yet. How am I supposed to have a real discussion with you if we don't have the facts on the table?😕 At the end of the day, your entire argument boils down to nothing more than pathetic, unserious ramblings about "sin" and "judgment." It’s just childish posturing and sulking.👎
I don't doubt you served, but I highly doubt you're some kind of Rambo.

Attacking the person instead of the argument is usually a sign that you’ve run out of things to say. It’s a desperate attempt to discredit your opponent when the logic fails. For the record, I never claimed to be some kind of "Rambo," and I certainly haven't implied it. Bringing up your history near El Paso is completely irrelevant to this discussion and has nothing to do with the points we're actually debating. You're just digging a deeper hole.👎
rowdytinker rowdytinker Active Member
55 messages
joined Jan 2008
#117 ·
GospodjicaEn said:
Dusan silan said:Honestly, how could I even dream of doubting you? How could I even dare write about this? It would be a mortal sin.
QUOTE]
Wrong emoji.🙂

I'm not quite sure what you were getting at there, but here is a little something for you. 😘 .
"Lady, tonight I sing only for you.
For it's the last time I'll watch this sun set
or look upon these people who never truly existed."

"When our eyes meet and memories flicker back to life
remember me, my thoughts, and my dreams."
That was the gist of it. I haven't heard those lyrics in twenty years.

"Amidst the silence of the city and its sleeping beauty
the quiet sound of a guitar plays 'la musica di note.'
If you've gone to sleep, may your night be peaceful
for our crew will come to you, singing our song."
"Open your window, darling, and listen to our melody
we will sing of love, la musica di note."
🙂
rowdytinker rowdytinker Active Member
55 messages
joined Jan 2008
#118 ·
Dusan silan said:This is interesting. I could draw plenty of conclusions from this, but honestly, I just can't be bothered right now.

Let’s stop dancing around the issue. Show me your data and your sources. Just drop a link. It’s much cleaner that way.
That would only be an argument if Rambo were a realistic character you could actually find in real life.

That is completely wrong. Think about it for a second.
And what about your argument that I'm uninformed just because I wrote "I don't know" in one sentence?

Don't forget the insults, too. 👍 All this tells me is that you haven't done your reading and clearly lack a proper education. Nothing more.
Zachary Alvarez8 Zachary Alvarez8 Newcomer
5 messages
joined May 2006
#119 ·
The Mexican Army's motto basically says: getting involved matters👍
redheron12 redheron12 Regular
306 messages
joined Aug 2008
#120 ·
The Mexican equation:

The number of fallen Mexican heroes is inversely proportional to the amount of Mexican cowardice shown.

Once they hit puberty... does it jump to 40?

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