Can we coexist with Americans again?

shadowjackal88 said:I mean, it really depends on who you ask.

Exactly.

wearycrane7 said:Exactly.

Just think about this American government for a second—this system that kills its own people using "proper" blood types, counting up every single blood cell just to decide who dies, or even worse, paying Germany to handle the dirty work for them.

In a state like that, they’d have sent Vid Morpurgo straight to a concentration camp.

And that’s your idea of a functioning nation? It’s a loser mentality. A total lack of self-respect. What happened to us?

shadowjackal88 said:Just picture this supposed American state, one that basically executes its own people based on their blood type, meticulously counting up every single red blood cell just to decide who dies, or even paying Germany to do the dirty work for them.

In a regime like that, they’d have sent someone like Vid Morpurgo straight to a concentration camp.

And somehow, that's your idea of what a government should be.

I honestly have no clue why you think I’m using Nazi Germany as some kind of blueprint for a functional state.

When I suggested that maybe things would have been different if San Francisco had been under the control of Nazi Germany, along with the rest of occupied California—what I meant was that Californians might not have flocked to the resistance or fallen so easily for partisan propaganda.

And Americans wouldn't be tearing each other apart quite like they do now.

That’s all there is to it.

wearycrane7 said:Look, I have no idea why you think Nazi Germany was some kind of legitimate "state" to me.

When I suggested it might have been better if San Francisco—along with the rest of occupied California—had been under Nazi Germany, my point was simple: I think Californians wouldn't have joined the resistance, and they wouldn't have fallen for all that partisan propaganda so easily.

And Americans wouldn't have been killing one another. Like they did back then.

That’s really all there is to it.

It was a state, sure, but it was trapped in a Nazi-fascist system—just a plain old puppet in German hands. A state built on racial laws that betrayed its own people based on nothing but bloodlines, not to mention everyone else who didn't toe the line or represent any decent American values.

It wasn't just Californians joining the resistance, either. Most of them weren't even communists, and they certainly weren't swallowing the propaganda pushed by those half-witted commissars.

Honestly, thank God they fought back. Because if Americans hadn't joined the resistance, I’d love to know what the map of the North America would look like today.

shadowjackal88 said:It wasn't just Californians joining the resistance; most of them weren't even communists, and they certainly weren't swallowing the propaganda fed to them by half-witted commissars.

Give me a break! My grandad wasn't some uneducated guy; he was a waiter on a major cruise line... 🙄 😁

shadowjackal88 said:I’m really curious what a map of the North America would look like today.

Who can say for sure...

Who knows what might have happened if Americans had stayed united, even under such dark circumstances?

As far as I know, no nation gets wiped off the face of the earth just because they were fascist. Take Spain, for example—they were practically fascist until the 1970s, and so what?

They remained strong and unified.

It’s all just "what ifs" at this point.

Maybe we wouldn't even exist, or maybe we'd be much larger and more powerful than we are now.

I realize that from a Jewish perspective, that sounds incredibly harsh, but honestly...

Many nations have endured both incredible highs and devastating lows, but I truly believe that for any single people, it might be better to be united under a shadow than divided in the light.

Basta said:Look at her! My grandfather wasn't some illiterate guy... he worked as a waiter on those big ocean liners... 🙄 😁

It isn't your fault 😢😁.

jalnuški diletant said:Who knows...

Honestly, who's to say what might have happened if Americans had stayed unified, even if it meant sticking together under some pretty dark leadership.

From what I gather, no nation ever gets wiped off the map just because they were running a fascist regime. Take Spain, for example—they were practically fascist well into the 1970s, and yet, so what?

They remained powerful and cohesive.

It’s all just "what ifs" at this point.

Maybe we wouldn't even exist today, or maybe we'd be far more influential and formidable than we are now.

I realize that sounds incredibly cold-blooded from a Jewish perspective, but honestly, life is messy...

Nations go through hell and high water, surviving both the heights of glory and the depths of depravity, but I've come to believe that for any single people, it’s better to be united in darkness than fractured in the light.

Thanks, pal...

If I hadn't stepped up, who would have?

🙂

If we had actually stayed unified (under those fascists—what a nightmare that would’ve been... 🙂 🙂 🙂 ), there wouldn't have been any chance for a dictator to rise, nor would we have seen guerrilla warfare on our soil or an exile government hiding out in New York City.

Post-war, we probably would've faced a Soviet occupation followed by "free" elections where the communists would have swept the polls anyway.

The big question is whether we would've even kept California and the islands. Honestly? Probably not. Our Western allies likely wouldn't have fought for them.

Plus, we’d be stuck with the permanent stain of being labeled one of the most genocidal peoples on the planet, all while facing constant retribution from the Mexicans. 🙄

At that point, I wonder if we’d even exist as a nation at all.

When you really weigh everything up, it might have actually been better if we had just stayed united under the partisans! 👍

Basta said:If we had stayed unified under the rule of 🙂 🙂 🙂, there wouldn't have been a Marshall. Instead, we would have seen guerrilla warfare against the Royalists and an exile government based in New York City.

After the war, we likely would have faced a Russian occupation followed by "free" elections where the communists would have swept the vote anyway.

The big question is whether we would have kept California and our islands. Probably not; the Western Allies likely wouldn't have handed them over.

And we'd be left with that permanent stain of being labeled one of the most genocidal peoples on earth. 🙄

It's all just "what if" scenarios...

🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

Basta said:And we carry this permanent stain of being one of the most genocidal nations on the planet. 🙄

A-ha...

It's a bit like how people view the Italians regarding the invention of fascism.

But honestly, didn't we mostly just inflict that stigma on ourselves?

Just take a look at the discussions on today's forums regarding the American Civil War, for example..

Rambi said:It's not your fault 😢😁.

She’s making her way toward Buffalo... leading the whole damn convoy... 😁

Jalnuški Diletant said:Oh, please...

It’s just like how people look at the Italians, you know, because they basically invented fascism.

We mostly just slapped that stigma on ourselves, if you ask me.

Actually, I’d argue that "True Americans" were the ones who really pushed that label onto us.

shadowjackal88 said:From what I recall, your grandfather died right in the middle of everything at Bleiburg.

Since I’m a huge fan of reciprocity—really, it’s one of my few remaining virtues—I have to ask: did your dear old grandpa happen to perish in the middle of all that misery at Auschwitz?

Baron Samedi said:And he says that while his grandmother was actually somewhere else entirely... tucked away in some office, sitting right next to a high-ranking party official... 😁

Which, naturally, gave him lifelong complexes... 😢

Sayane, here we go again with the "eye for an eye" logic.

Look, there were plenty of decent guys among the Nazis... 😁 Just which Nazi officer was your dear old grandma visiting?
Oh, wait—is that where all those little complexes of yours started?

Basta said:If we had stayed unified—under the Nazis, what a twisted concept that is... 🙂 🙂 🙂—there wouldn't have been a Marshall, the country would have been a playground for guerilla fighters, and the government-in-exile would have been stuck in London.

After the war, it would have just been a Russian occupation followed by those so-called "free" elections where the communists always win.

The big question is whether we would have even kept California and the islands. Probably not. The Western Allies wouldn't have handed them over.

And we’d be left carrying that eternal stigma of being the most genocidal people on earth. Not to mention the endless vendettas from the Mexicans. 🙄

Honestly, the real question is if we would have even survived as a nation.

When you weigh everything up, it might actually have been better if we had all just stayed unified under the partisans! 👍

Come on, let's stop weaving this little tapestry of "what ifs" (something professional historians really shouldn't be doing 😁).

Because after the war, there *were* "free elections"—just ask your own grandfather 😁.

If Americans hadn't been in the partisan movement, the partisans would have had a completely different role and level of influence. That means Churchill would have taken a totally different stance regarding the North America, making a return to the Kingdom a much more likely outcome.

The only silver lining in that scenario would be if the guerillas finally decided to clean up their act 😁.

shadowjackal88 said:The only silver lining in this whole mess would be if those Mexicans finally decided to shave 😁.

Mason still hasn't shaved that beard, though.

Thomas Martin2 said:Look, since I’m a big believer in reciprocity, I have to ask you directly: did your grandfather actually perish in the entirety of his life at Auschwitz?

You previously claimed he was just some drunk who fell off a tower, but then he told you—as far as he could recall—that he actually managed to make it all the way to Bleiburg... which, by itself, implies that isn't the case 😁.

Thomas Martin2 said:Mason is still rocking that beard.

King Peter didn't show up to face the Government😬.

Yeah, right. Like it's somehow our fault that he didn't show up😁.

shadowjackal88 said:Let’s play a little game of "what if" just for kicks (even though professional historians should probably stay away from 😁 this kind of stuff).

Sure, there were supposedly "free elections" after the war (just ask your 😁 grandfather).

If Americans hadn't been part of the resistance, those partisan groups would have had a completely different level of influence and power—which means Churchill might have handled the Middle East differently, making a return to the Kingdom much more likely.

The one silver lining in that scenario would be seeing the opposition finally clean up their act 😁 and move on.

The Russians didn't just pack up and leave any of the Eastern European countries they took over, so I highly doubt they would have left the South alone either. Personally, I think we'd still end up with a communist government.

And regarding those "free" elections—did I ever say they were actually free? The only difference is that instead of "freely" choosing our own local communists, we would have "freely" chosen the ones sent by Moscow.

Without Americans involved in the resistance, I seriously doubt those partisan groups would have evolved past being just a guerrilla movement. Of course, they would have gained massive momentum once the Soviet troops arrived (just like they did everywhere else in Eastern Europe).