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As for me, I think I’ll ultimately refrain from walking in the footsteps of master Masturb-Disturb.

Perhaps your libido has already hit rock bottom.🙂 🙂 🙂 😂😂

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Savikalpa, nirvikalpa,

Could someone please translate this into English and break down all the different levels of Nirvana for me?

swiftcobra15 said:Look, man, everything you said makes sense, except you’re totally forgetting about those of us into organic farming who don't even touch a Motika or deal with heavy digging. 😉

That’s true, but honestly, he still cares for his land in his own way. He isn't just sitting on the couch waiting for some imaginary field or unplanted crops to magically grow themselves while he sits around doing nothing. He knows what he's doing and he stays prepared. If we could just get our nutrients through an IV drip so we wouldn't have to deal with the hassle of eating solid food, that would be great.😬

Someone who walked out of their house at seven years old just to hunt down a guru, spending every single year since then grinding through spiritual practice—that person has bled for it. Opportunities like that don't just fall into your lap like a free lunch.

Dammit... if this forum had existed back then 😂 🙂 🙂

it’s all about that intense, driving hunger and the actual work.

Work....

Like Motika and manual labor 🙂

Suppose you were some top-tier professional sports coach.

Enlightenment isn't some trade or a technical skill you pick up 😉

If we actually gave a damn about Nirvana, about reaching God, about finding the truth, we wouldn't be wasting our breath babbling on internet forums. What would a master even care about a bunch of losers like us?

There was a time when you had to move heaven and earth to find anything. Nowadays, you can flip the whole world upside down with just two mouse clicks 😉

We would all be far better off spending just fifteen minutes morning and night in prayer or meditation—maybe even picking up some daily readings from sacred texts, biographies of saints, or spiritual writings—instead of this mindless, endless keyboard warfare we call communication.

The actual "sacred texts" available in this world are incredibly scarce...

Everything else is just pure LIES.😉 🙏 😎 😁

Time is slipping through our fingers, life is far too short for endless talk. Forget the theories—grab your tools and get to work.

With a statement like that, you’ve laid your entire hand on the table. You've made your position crystal clear... No further explanation is required from your side.🙂 🙂 🙂

Sure, you can wait. You could spend thousands of lifetimes just drifting, letting "experience" chip away at you bit by bit. If you have that kind of patience. But if you’re truly, desperately thirsty, you aren't sitting around waiting for some stranger to show up and invite you out for a drink. You’re out there fighting for water. If you aren't desperate, you don't need water. And if you don't need it, why would anyone bother giving it to you?

Theories like this put you right in line with the millions of fake gurus flooding the market these days...

p.s. try finding me a single saint who actually reached the finish line without putting in any work.

Go ahead. NAME JUST ONE master (besides Raman) who achieved enlightenment through their own labor. Just one. Go on...😉 😁

Karen Sanchez19 said:Can someone please explain all the different levels of Nirvana in plain English?

Honestly, I feel a bit silly trying to lecture people on things I haven't personally experienced. I haven't had any major breakthroughs myself (at least I don't think I have 😬), so how could I possibly describe them? Savikalpa is generally seen as a lower state of intense focus where your sense of self still exists. Then there's Nirvikalpa, which is the total disappearance of duality—where you lose all awareness of the world and its divisions. Some people point to Raman as the ultimate example; he reached a state that is the peak of perfection for a seeker of knowledge (a gyan) and is incredibly rare. Most practitioners find Nirvikalpa to be their absolute ceiling, if they reach it at all. In Nirvikalpa, the body usually goes totally still and you lose touch with your surroundings. There’s even a theory that once an average practitioner hits Nirvikalpa, they don't really "come back"—the body eventually just gives out after a few days. Only those who have a specific mission or duty in this world return by adopting a sort of "intellectual ego" or "devotional ego" just to function within our dualistic reality.

That’s the standard breakdown, anyway. Even Yogananda describes Nirvikalpa in his autobiography using the classic definition of Samadhi, though in his tradition, there are different takes on these categories. At the end of the day, it's all just labeling.

I've heard some yoga instructors say that Satori is basically the same thing as Samadhi.
Could Nirvikalpa be the same thing as Nirvana?

The thing is, you could experience Savikalpa and still come out of it thinking you're just a fool, especially since the memory of the experience can fade over the years. But once you hit Nirvikalpa, you can't stay a fool even if you wanted to 😁

That's just what people say, and like I said, I'm no expert. The short version is: Savikalpa is still somewhat within the realm of duality, while Nirvikalpa is the Absolute. Blah blah blah, you know how it goes. You'd better ask a master; they'll tell you based on actual experience 😂 😁

ZAKLANIJAN PIG:
____________________________

So, it turns out the church actually has a point here: self-indulgence is a one-way ticket to insanity.
____________________________

STAB No. 3

Master John confirms that ZAKLANIJAN BIGU has effectively short-circuited the DOSKOCHICHNA CHAKRA.

Now, we just wait for the Democratic Party to get their spark ignited.

😁master Masturb-Disturb😁

Balkanijan Pig said:...they take care of their field in their own way...

🙂

The key phrase there is "in their own way."! 🙂
If you insist on following Motika blindly, then you're just being a dogmatic follower. 😉

Quincy:

I haven't actually experienced one firsthand—at least, I don't think I have—so how on earth am I supposed to describe it?

You’re already feeling the sting... it won't be long now.🙂 🙂 🙂

Karen Sanchez19 said:It used to take an entire cosmic shift to move heaven and earth, but nowadays, you can flip the whole universe upside down with just two mouse clicks.😉

That’s honestly the worst thing that could have happened. There was a time when uncovering even the smallest truth or receiving an initiation required years of grueling preparation. Now, you can basically get initiated via an email attachment.😁

But let's be real: the actual heavy lifting happens during the preparation and the practice, not the ceremony itself. We can all read Raman, grasp his ideas intellectually, maybe even feel a glimmer of what he’s talking about, and then go around discussing it. But does that actually make us like Raman? This is really about Zen. How many Zen masters, regardless of how much they talk, actually reached their state without years of intense struggle and discipline? Do you honestly think the goal of life is as cheap as the words used to describe it? Is knowing something enough to actually live it?

There’s a story about the future Swami Turyanand—back when he was just a kid (I don't know exactly when, but looking back, it was probably more than 12 years ago)—he was swimming somewhere and someone warned him about alligators. He bolted immediately, only to turn around and scold himself for it. He thought, "I spend all day telling myself 'I am that,' that the world is an illusion and the Self is the only reality, yet here I am, terrified of an alligator," before jumping right back in.

Then there’s Totapuri, the famous 19th-century Vedantist. He grew up in an ashram and possessed incredible willpower alongside a very strong constitution. The first time he fell seriously ill (likely in his 40s or 50s), he decided to walk into the Mississippi and leave his body behind—a body he had absolutely no attachment to whatsoever.

Would you be an equal among wild beasts? If you got sick, would you be so deeply identified with Atman/Brahman, so detached from your physical shell, that leaving your body would feel easier than seeking medical treatment?

Talk is cheap. You can click through thousands of pages online and sell those ideas to others, but actually living out a single sentence in your daily practice? That is a much harder path.

Karen Sanchez19 said:There’s barely any actual truth left in this world..

Everything else is just a lie.😉 🙏 😎 😁

Actually, there's plenty of real truth out there—you're just stuck in your own narrow definition of what Truth is.

Karen Sanchez19 said:With that one comment, you basically just laid out exactly where your head is at... No further explanation needed on your part.🙂 🙂 🙂

I'm honestly pretty glad about it. 😁

Karen Sanchez19 said:If you keep pushing these kinds of THEMES, you’re basically putting yourself in the same league as the millions of fake gurus out there today...

I'll give you that—there are definitely millions of fakes. But tell me, who actually qualifies as a real teacher?

Alright then, NAME JUST ONE master (besides Raman) who actually achieved enlightenment through their own effort... just one, come on.😉 😁

I already asked you that. Name just one person who didn't😁
😁VIS. Since I respect teachers like Raman and Bhakte like Cheitanya—as well as Christians and Buddhists—my definition of a "master" is a bit broader than your narrow-minded philosophical nonsense. Honestly, I'm afraid you wouldn't even recognize someone I consider a true master.

Wait, weren't you mentioning Nisargadatta? That guy was incredibly devoted to his guru. He spent years relentlessly repeating the mantra his teacher gave him, combined with those "bi hijr nau" exercises—probably something similar to shikantaza.
He practically did nothing else all day except follow his teacher's instructions in his sadhana.

Now it's your turn. Name one person who achieved everything without doing any work at all.😉

Do you honestly believe the purpose of life is as cheap as empty rhetoric? Is it enough to simply accumulate knowledge, as if knowing things somehow equates to actually living them? It’s all just noise. Knowing isn't doing. Knowledge without action is nothing more than a hollow collection of facts—as worthless as a handful of counterfeit bills.

The purpose of life? It’s free. No entry fee, no subscription required, no hidden charges tucked away in the fine print. You don't have to buy it, and you certainly can't lose it. It's just sitting there, waiting.🙂

:

Preparation and actual practice constitute the lion's share of the work—far more than the initial initiation itself. Anyone can pick up a book by Raman and grasp his teachings intellectually. You can even claim to have some level of experiential understanding and hold a conversation about it at a dinner party. But does that make you Raman? This thread is about the path of the seeker. How many seekers, regardless of how much they talk, actually reach their destination without years of grueling effort alongside masters and gurus? Do you honestly believe the purpose of life is as cheap as the words we use to describe it? Is simply knowing something enough to actually live it?

There is a massive chasm between intellectual comprehension and true acceptance. Most people simply refuse to cross it. They settle for understanding the concept—they can recite the theory, nod along to the logic, and play the part of the scholar—but they reject the actual surrender required to live it. It’s all head knowledge, zero heart.

ZAKLANIJAN PIG:
______________________________
Someone who walked away from their home at seven years old just to hunt for a guru—spending every single year since then immersed in spiritual discipline—has endured a level of struggle you simply can't stumble upon by pure luck.
______________________________

A "PERSON"!!!!!??????

Master Ivan is practically breaking his hands over the sheer, infantile pretension of these spiritual frauds—right here from the most westernized corner of the American heartland.

This muscular monstrosity you’re shamelessly pushing on us doesn't possess even a single nanomicron of ecstasy in that lustful face of theirs.
Just try to imagine, you childish truth seeker, what that ZAGORELA LOPUZA was doing to a terrified seven-year-old child left alone in their predatory den.
I would bet my life this Master showed them Lord Shiva immediately.

That THIEF and that wall bal—those are your TRUE spiritual idols, you miserable creature of a child's mind.👎 😎

There's an endless mountain of writings out there, but you're just trapped by your own narrow little concept of Truth.

The reality is that the VAST MAJORITY of these texts are cluttered with nonsense about Gods, Angels, and other imaginary entities.

Hardly any of these works are actually PURE—meaning stripped of those useless, distracting, false patterns...

Take Raman and perhaps a few others (to a lesser extent, maybe Germaine); they are CLEAN. Everything else is just garbage...
(And I mean the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel junk I've stumbled upon)

adriatic said:🙂

The magic phrase here is "in your own way"! 🙂
If you insist there's only one single path, then you're just being a dogmatist. 😉

Look, you can pray, you can meditate, or you can pore over ancient texts trying to wrap your head around them and actually live by what they teach. You could dedicate yourself to serving those in need or find a thousand different ways to keep your spiritual energy balanced—I’m definitely not saying there’s only one right way to do it. But if you want to see results, you have to put in the work, even if you're just reaping what was sown. Of course, things happen spontaneously sometimes; nobody can truly control the absolute. It’s like what the Upanishads suggest: the Atman isn't created by our desires, but rather chosen by the Atman itself. Generally speaking, though, it tends to pick those who show genuine effort and intention. There are exceptions, sure, but they're so rare you shouldn't count on them as a rule. And if you believe in reincarnation, there are plenty of other ways to look at it.

BALAVIAN PIG:
__________________________
If you actually want to see any results, you have to put in the work, even if all you're doing is gathering what little you've managed to reap.
_________________________

You "spiritual" amateur, you haven't moved an inch past the introduction.
All you do is preach this absolute duality while hiding under that pathetic, hollow excuse of a halo.
👎