Buddhism

On was walking along that path when he heard the voice of God, just casually saying, "Francis, hey! How’s it going?" 😂 😂

Jose Reyes said:Mahavira - the founder of Jainism

He reached Enlightenment without any "preliminary steps" while he was out milking a cow.
Even though some depictions show him in the middle of milking, certain scholars argue that Mahavira actually attained Enlightenment while simply stepping out from behind a bush.

Vardhamana Mahavira (599–527 BC) was born (with a Buddha-like nature) as a prince, roughly during the same era as Buddha. At the age of thirty, he walked away from his royal life and, within a single year, gave away all his worldly possessions. During his twelve years living as an ascetic, he eventually gathered a following of as many as 400,000 followers.
He spent twelve and a half years in deep meditation, striving to master attachment, desire, and emotion, all while being careful not to harm any living creature—often sitting in stillness for incredibly long stretches. It was during this intense period that he achieved Enlightenment, or whatever term you prefer to use. So, he wasn't just some farmer who happened to stumble into enlightenment while doing daily chores like milking a cow.

For the next 36 years, he traveled barefoot across the land, preaching the very ideals he had mastered: the pursuit of moksha, or liberation from the endless cycle of birth and death.

Piggy, grab that juice! Grab it now! THE MASTER IS OFFERING IT TO YOU! THE MASTER IS OFFERING IT TO YOU! 😂 😂 😂

Then God said to Francis, "Son, I’m switching over to English now just to help you pick up some new languages. But listen, remember the first rule: you have to totally MASTER the EEG activity happening inside your own head! ...And for heaven's sake, don't go bowing down to the microwave!" 🙏 🙂

Balkanian Pig:
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At thirty years old, he walked away from his family and, within a single year, divested himself of every last worldly possession.
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The absolute gold standard of DNA-Enlightenment, once again.

What exactly does a "candidate" for DNA-Enlightenment—this little Spiritual brat—have left to actually do?
Nothing, by the grace of God, absolutely nothing.
That concept of "empty effort" which you blind fools mistake for "working on yourself" is simply their inherent nature. Their essence, their mannerisms, their very presence—it is all already hardwired into their DNA-Enlightenment, Truth Seeker.
God help you if you think this is how one achieves an Awakening.

But it isn't hardwired into HIS nature. It isn't hardwired into YOURS. It certainly isn't hardwired into the millions of imitators and bigots out there of every stripe. That is why you "work," why you "struggle," and why you "penance" without ever seeing a single shred of actual results—you're just a Piggy, after all, when you clearly don't grasp the reality of the situation.
And meanwhile, LIFE JUST DRIFTS SLOWLYYYYYYYY AWAY.
You'll never produce a sage from a monkey.
🙂 👋

Balkanian Pig said:Isn't self-inquiry actually a form of work and effort? Wasn't Raman supposed to guide you through it? How can you claim that neither effort nor a teacher is necessary?

It’s not really "work" in the traditional sense; it's more about redirecting your focus.
But let's be real—we need teachers for everything else in life. We need people to teach us how to speak, walk, write, read, do math, and so on. That’s just the reality of living in this material world. 🙂

Jose Reyes said:HAKUIN - ZEN MASTER

He achieved Enlightenment without any "preliminary steps"—he was just out there fishing for perch in a lake.

Ever since he was a kid, Hakuin showed an intense spiritual bent. Following his mother’s advice, he spent time praying to various bodhisattvas, but eventually realized it wasn't getting him anywhere. After reading the biography of Gantov (a Chinese monk, Yen-t'ou Ch'uan-huo, 828-887), who, despite being an incredible saint, met a violent end, Hakuin became obsessed with a terrifying question: if even a man of such greatness couldn't escape tragedy during his life, how could anyone possibly avoid hell after death?
To quote Hakuin: "For three whole days, I lay restless in my bed, tormented by these thoughts. I began losing weight, starving myself within the monastic quarters. I couldn't even swallow a single grain of rice. It lasted five days, and I simply couldn't extinguish those hellish fires in my mind."

He actually considered walking away from the Buddha-like path entirely—deciding to just accept his fate and devote himself to literature and calligraphy instead. But then it hit him again: even if his art surpassed that of the greatest masters, he still wouldn't be able to cheat death. Despair took hold of him once more.

He languished in that state until he stumbled upon some old books. He took it as a sign and prayed to Budhi that these texts might show him a way out of his Misery. Among them was a book by Zekan Sakushinov, where he found a passage detailing the grueling sadhana practiced by Zen Master Jimyo.
Jimyo had been incredibly disciplined, refusing to let anything—not sleep, not even freezing temperatures—break his meditation.

Hakuin decided to follow in his footsteps.
Yet, the shadow of Gantov’s death still loomed over him. He tried searching for a teacher, but finding nothing useful, he retreated into a temple and vowed to fast for a week, hoping to solve the mystery on his own. Then, around midnight, the bell rang, and everything changed.

However, that experience ended up inflating his ego (which proves it wasn't true enlightenment, but rather a typical meditative experience caused by intense striving and sadhana). He sought validation from other teachers, but they told him straight up: that wasn't enlightenment. He eventually went to Shoj Rojina, a pretty blunt master who continued to refine him through zazen. Of all the teachers he visited—and many of whom he secretly felt intimidated by when they were mentioned—Shoj Rojina was the only one he truly accepted as his master.

Two years after studying under Shoj, Hakuin fell seriously ill due to overexerting himself with zen practice. He sought out the hermit Hakuyushi, who taught him certain Taoist exercises that helped him regain his health.

Later in life, he often wrote about the importance of physical health, attributing his legendary, massive work ethic to those Taoist practices.

After that, he continued wandering across the country, practicing and honing his understanding of zen, until he finally settled in Shoin-jiu, which is where his fame as a teacher truly began to spread.

Jade said:It’s not even about putting in massive effort; it’s just about redirecting your focus.

Well, sure, but if you're redirecting that focus toward God, toward the Self, or whatever the whole point of spiritual discipline actually is... then yeah, if we could just pull that off 24/7, we'd be golden.😬

SEVEN-YEAR-OLD BALKANIAN KID:
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Even from his earliest years, Hakuin demonstrated profound spiritual inclinations and deep-seated inquiries.
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TAKE A LOOK AT THE MASTER'S LAST THREE POSTS if you want to truly grasp the sheer scale of this BALKANIAN SPIRITUAL INFANTILISM.

Hey, Piggy, what if you actually went to that muscular GUY'S cave and let him introduce you to Lord Shiva?
I imagine such an encounter would absolutely shatter your shallow, materialistic consciousness, wouldn't it?🙂 🙂 🙂 👋

Are we all just kidding ourselves here? I still haven't found a single master who supposedly hit enlightenment just by jerking off while relaxing. 😁

And from what I can tell, even with Raman, it wasn't some magical moment where a guy was just playing in the sand and—boom—instant enlightenment. 😛

If you actually consider Francis's conversion or Hakuin's meditative experiences to be true enlightenment and the ultimate realization, then your understanding of moksha and your own meditation practice is seriously flawed. 🙂

It exists. Honestly, this book is a practical tool for me because Bhagavanov’s answers are organized by theme. I can just flip directly to the "Guru" chapter or the "Meditation" section and transcribe what's relevant instead of digging through a massive mountain of text just to find one specific thing.

If you have a digital version, email it to me right now!!!!

Balkanian Pig, this Hakuin guy in your story sounds like a lost soul who had absolutely no clue how to deal with himself or his irrational fear of death. 😢 You can really see how much that martyr suffered, yet somehow he still didn't reach enlightenment. 😢 To be honest, maybe he actually did make it in the end, but I’m skeptical that all that agony was even what led him there. 😢

Jade said:Balkanian Pig, this Hakuin guy in your story sounds like a tragic figure who was just lost, struggling with an irrational fear of death. 😢 You can see how much this martyr suffered, yet he still didn't reach enlightenment. 😢 Honestly, maybe he did eventually get there, but I’m skeptical that all that suffering was actually what led him to it. 😢

Someone once said that if there’s any shortcut in spirituality, it’s the sheer intensity of your longing for God, the Truth, or Liberation...

Prahlada prayed to God for his own sake, while the other famous child-saint, Dhruva, just wanted his parents to accept him—even though Prahlada's approach is considered "pure." In the end, both reached their destination, and for Dhruva, the original reason behind the prayer stopped mattering long ago.

Whatever the motivation, the key is that the hunger has to be intense. It works like anything else in life: the more you pour into something, the more you get out of it.

The whole trick is just finding a way to pivot our restless, flighty minds away from nonsense and redirect them toward the Highest. The "why" isn't nearly as important as the direction.

If Hakuin's fear of death was the engine that drove his intense search and ultimately led him to his goal, then that fear was actually his greatest ally. It gave him far more than any empty philosophical debating ever could.

Balkanijan Pig said:Based on everything we know about Raman, it’s not like he just sat there playing in the sand and suddenly—bam—instant enlightenment.😛

Actually, he did. 🙂 He was only 17 when this sudden, paralyzing fear of death hit him out of nowhere. He dropped to the ground, asked himself that one life-altering question, "Who am I?", and just... woke up. He even claims he hadn't touched a single religious text or known anything about spirituality before that moment. It wasn't until later, after people started sensing a great teacher and master within him, that he actually started studying the scriptures.

That's why I don't think his personal deep dive applies to everyone else, even if it acted as the perfect trigger for him in that specific moment. 😉

Balkanijan Pig said:If Hakuin’s fear of death was what drove him toward such intense searching—and if that pursuit actually led him to his goal—then that fear was actually his greatest ally. It gave him way more than all our empty philosophical debates ever could.

Alright, so you're saying enlightenment is the ultimate goal. Let's play along and assume it can be reached through sheer force, grit, willpower, or whatever else (even though that doesn't sit right with me personally, but fine, let's say 😉 )—but then what? Once you get there, what happens? You just end up with a different perspective on this material life (whatever time you have left), and that's it. There's nothing else to it. 🙂

Just a Balkanian:
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Yet I still cannot find a single master who was simply handed enlightenment while sitting around scratching themselves.
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Balkanian, Truth Seeker, Master Ivan already told you that the list of MASTERS without such "luck" is infinite.
For you, nothing has even begun, precisely because of the sheer mundanity of your "special consciousness."
That "special consciousness," trapped in its INHERENT DUALITY, cannot even conceive of any REALIZATION without sweat and grueling effort.
That is the magic of its endurance, and its vitality.

There is no one in this world who does not "live" through the constant execution of specific "actions."
"Special consciousness," unfortunately knowing only that specific "ACTION" and the "EFFECTS" of that very same "ACTION," will inevitably fall for the most pathetic of all ILLUSIONS.

And that ILLUSION is the belief that by "investing" our efforts in a steady direction, the "effects" will naturally align with the nature of our efforts. As if any of you, by striving toward Moksha or Samadhi, could achieve those very same milestones simply through zeal.

THAT IS NOT HOW IT WORKS, Truth Seeker.
Francis of Assisi would reach Samadhi through his own unique way of being.
Hakuin would reach it in his own way.
It would be the same for Mahavira.

BUT YOU WILL NOT REACH SAMADHI, no matter how much you lift your leg, you unspiritual fool.
You won't reach IT because you are an IMITATOR and a FOOL.
Because you are blind and shallow.

Neither Francis of Assisi, nor Hakuin, nor Mahavira spent even a fraction of a second "pointing" themselves toward the maintenance and "nurturing" of a mere ILLUSION.
The INTERNAL VOCATION of a future ENLIGHTENED BEING leads each of them toward Samadhi from the very moment of their birth.
What feels to you, in your ongoing "Awakening," like "self-work" and bloody self-absorption, is actually just the simplest, raw life of the "CHOSEN ONE."
Nothing more than that.

Your self-absorption leads you nowhere, Truth Seeker.
Perhaps only toward Soulful temptation or social displacement.
Why? How is that possible? What are you saying, Master?

BECAUSE, Truth Seeker, it was NOT GRANTED to you to be that way.
Because within YOUR BEING, there is nowhere and nothing where that "Divine nature"—which each of the three Divine men we discuss here so powerfully manifested—has been witnessed.
From "birth," from "the earliest days," from "youth," ..., NO ONE has ever recognized such a "specific difference" in you, Truth Seeker.

Nor does this Master recognize it in you now. Nor can he. All he sees is the stubbornness of a bloated ego.
It is senseless to kick your legs while the black horses gallop right past you.
🙄

Jade said:Alright, let’s play along with your idea that enlightenment is the ultimate goal. Even if we assume you can actually grab it through sheer force of will, grinding effort, or whatever else (which, honestly, doesn't sit right with me, but fine, let's say 😉), what happens once you actually get there? You just end up with a different perspective on this material life—for however much longer you have left—and that's it. There isn't anything else beyond that. 🙂

I don't know, man. I'm just repeating what I've heard from others. To be honest, I don't even know what enlightenment actually *is*. I know the theory—that things like bhava, Samadhi, nirvana, vichara, or japa are essentially nothing more than mental constructs—but as for what those "enlightened" states actually feel like? I haven't a clue. You'd have to ask Kvelj.😁

George Washington (St. Francis)

Pure enlightenment in a sterile Mayo Clinic ward, without any "preliminary steps."

Are you serious?

If that’s actually the case, I really need to go back and review what was written...

EM... looking through his writings, I honestly can't see any distinction between Frank and the Bible, for instance...
hmm 🤔

Ravana, thanks!

Now, I’d really love for you to take a crack at this:

Even the Ravana that you seem to "love" so much says that... hold on, let me check my notes... it says that

Once you strip away the world, that whole "I am a musician" fantasy just morphs into an "I am an ascetic" fantasy. The mental hurdles don't actually disappear; they just grow in a different environment.

Conversations from June 16, 1935

If the Absolute were conditional upon anything at all—well, then the Absolute wouldn't be worth the effort.

I figured you might have picked that up during those fruitless trips chasing after some green October dream.

Balkanijan Pig said:I don't really know, honestly—just what I've heard from others. I don't even truly grasp what enlightenment actually is. I know the definitions, theoretically speaking—what Bhava is, what Samadhi is, Nirvana, Vichara, Japa, prayer... but as for what those actual moments of enlightenment feel like? I haven't a clue. You'd have to ask Kvelj. 😁

If that's the case, why does "spiritual work" pull at you? Why do you spend time on it, or at least feel like it's something you're supposed to be doing?