Standard of living in Cuba is better than in America

rapidmason1 said:The standards along the coast in the USA are among the best you'll find globally.
Massive estates, luxury apartments, high-end cars...
It beats out the Italian or Greek coasts, and honestly, I think it even surpasses the French Riviera.
Between the Mediterranean climate and having some of the warmest waters in the temperate zone, it's hard to beat.
Unemployment? It doesn't exist here.
If you aren't working, you can always find a way to land something through a connection at City Hall or a local utility company.
It’s absolute paradise...

Bold statement, but totally spot on. If you aren't well-connected enough to get a handout, your only shot is starting your own business. And even then, expect people to throw sand in your gears at every turn.

silvertiger11 said:Does anyone know what happened to that forum regular who was so determined to pack up and move to Cuba to work?

I have a feeling his little dream evaporated pretty quickly.

It seems he probably had to check his convictions at the door when he arrived.🙂

Or perhaps his views on LGBT rights made entry into his version of "paradise" a bit more complicated than he anticipated.🙂

briskbison55 said:Well, you can actually get in with a special permit. I have this business colleague, an Englishman, who heads over to Cuba once a year for a few weeks at a time, and because of his status, he’s allowed to drive cars and access pretty much any part of the island. And honestly? Because of him—literally just one guy—the university, two hospitals, and most likely some government ministries (though he won't admit it) all have IT systems that he spends his time upgrading as much as he possibly can.

So, what he's describing is the actual reality of the poverty and the frustration there. It really doesn't line up with those stories they try to feed us about some happy, carefree people living their best lives.

Spot on.
Because even if you make it to Cuba, you're basically just a tourist staying in foreign-owned hotels surrounded by barbed wire and guards. The locals aren't even allowed to set foot in there....

And if you somehow end up somewhere else, just know that once they realize you're a foreigner, they'll try to dump a thousand letters on you to mail once you leave Cuba because they aren't allowed to do it themselves....and as for how poor people are and what their living conditions are like, there's really nothing left to say.

Just a suggestion: let's swap someone from downtown Washington, D.C. with someone from the heart of Havana....then we can see who actually enjoys it more and who's running for the hills.

One more thing, you can only register a car if it was already in Cuba before the revolution; I see they're loosening things up a bit now, but the prices are so insane that nobody is buying anything......

The one thing that truly baffles me is why Mason didn't make a move to head down there himself to actually establish some diplomatic ties; we could have had the Cubans draft us a complete master plan for our healthcare system, rather than just settling for whatever ideas some Frenchmen throw our way. 🙂

silvertiger11 said:Does anyone know what happened to that forum regular who was so determined to pack up and move to Cuba to work?

I have a feeling his little dream evaporated pretty quickly.

Not sure which guy you're talking about—but honestly, steffan66 actually wrote some of the most interesting stuff about Cuba on this entire board in his first few posts.

Statistics are just a bunch of numbers that don't actually mean a damn thing half the time.

Carl Turner2 said:The one thing that truly baffles me is why Mason didn't make a move to head down there himself to actually establish some diplomatic ties; we could have had the Cubans draft us a complete master plan for our healthcare system, rather than just settling for whatever ideas some Frenchmen throw our way. 🙂

Look, Mason remembers it all too well,
that whole socialist healthcare
- master plan they had running until 1990.
Just beautiful.

But yeah,
there's just no way to keep it,
- I mean, who hasn't managed to completely wreck everything!
during this whole "transition" phase😁

Sam Wright21 said:One can't help but wonder if Cuba might have seen more significant progress had it not been for the decades-long blockade imposed by the USA.

True enough, though people seem to forget that Cuba has been under sanctions from the U.S.—and by extension, its allies—for roughly fifty years now.
Restricting the import and export of essential goods and raw materials certainly stunts any meaningful economic growth in Cuba.

But this ranking just highlights how a bunch of incompetent, corrupt bureaucrats are running the show. It’s pathetic.

ruggeddriver70 said:Not sure which guy you're talking about—but honestly, steffan66 actually wrote some of the most interesting stuff about Cuba on this entire board in his first few posts.

Reading this live was... well, a hell of an experience.
All this talk about love, honesty, and honor is just pure BS; something definitely smells fishy here.
That guy stefano nailed it... it's just a bunch of people living in poverty looking toward God outside of Cuba, and their only real goal is to escape.

They're sick of the old ways in America and Trieste... obviously it's not the same thing, but the vibe is similar under different circumstances.
And especially when I get tired of dealing with Czechs, Poles, and Canadians... those guys would have sold their souls for some seasoning or a couple of bucks back in the day.

All I can say is, the people living there are truly pathetic.

Jerry Sanders4 said:Reading this live was... well, a hell of an experience.
All this talk about love, honesty, and honor is just pure BS; something definitely smells fishy here.
That guy stefano nailed it... it's just a bunch of people living in poverty looking toward God outside of Cuba, and their only real goal is to escape.

They're sick of the old ways in America and Trieste... obviously it's not the same thing, but the vibe is similar under different circumstances.
And especially when I get tired of dealing with Czechs, Poles, and Canadians... those guys would have sold their souls for some seasoning or a couple of bucks back in the day.

All I can say is, the people living there are truly pathetic.

And man, you talk about the people struggling just to get by in the States.

People will tell you that you've got it made,
but they couldn't be more wrong.
Honestly, nobody is more broke or struggling than the folks in Cuba.☕

Charles Lopez3 said:And man, you talk about the people struggling just to get by in the States.

People will tell you that you've got it made,
but they couldn't be more wrong.
Honestly, nobody is more broke or struggling than the folks in Cuba.☕

But honestly, that’s the whole point of socialism, isn't it? They convince you that everything is fine, while compared to any standard, functional society, you're left with absolutely nothing.

Charles Lopez3 said:And man, you talk about the people struggling just to get by in the States.

People will tell you that you've got it made,
but they couldn't be more wrong.
Honestly, nobody is more broke or struggling than the folks in Cuba.☕

Look, let's just drop this whole narrative...
things are exactly how we make them...

We get the government we deserve because if you dropped any average American on the street,
the result would be identical... secret stashes of cash, shiny Audis, five different smartphones, and fancy pens for signing deals...

But comparing us to Cuba? Not happening.
No matter how screwed we think we are, we're still living the dream...
Just walk through your hometown and see if the coffee shops are empty...

We're nowhere near a real crisis... you can joke all you want now, but deep down you know I'm right...

Carl Turner2 said:But honestly, that’s the whole point of socialism, isn't it? They convince you that everything is fine, while compared to any standard, functional society, you're left with absolutely nothing.

Man, you basically just summed up the entire "post-Cold War era" right there.
I mean, we really have to hand it to the corporate lobbyists and the big religious institutions for 😁
pulling that off.

Charles Lopez3 said:Man, you basically just summed up the entire "post-Cold War era" right there.
I mean, we really have to hand it to the corporate lobbyists and the big religious institutions for 😁
pulling that off.

So, I suppose we should all be grateful that we finally managed to distance ourselves from socialism and collectivism.
Though, honestly, things might have gone a bit smoother if you lot hadn't gone off on your little worker's revolution and trashed everything that actually functioned.

As the old saying goes, you reap what you sow.

Carl Turner2 said:So, I suppose we should all be grateful that we finally managed to distance ourselves from socialism and collectivism.
Though, honestly, things might have gone a bit smoother if you lot hadn't gone off on your little worker's revolution and trashed everything that actually functioned.

As the old saying goes, you reap what you sow.

you're just talking pure nonsense here.
I mean, I really hope you actually realize how ridiculous you sound.😁

Nicholas Nguyen said:True enough, though people seem to forget that Cuba has been under sanctions from the U.S.—and by extension, its allies—for roughly fifty years now.
Restricting the import and export of essential goods and raw materials certainly stunts any meaningful economic growth in Cuba.

But this ranking just highlights how a bunch of incompetent, corrupt bureaucrats are running the show. It’s pathetic.

Good grief, so now trade restrictions are suddenly a bad thing? Isn't that basically the entire playbook for domestic conservatives here—claiming we need to protect ourselves from foreign lobbies and low-quality imports? Well, it looks like Cuba is living their absolute dream scenario.😁

Charles Lopez3 said:you're just talking pure nonsense here.
I mean, I really hope you actually realize how ridiculous you sound.😁

So, weren't you out there looting, burning, and killing alongside your own kind—or should I say, "liberating" people from their property?"

Back then, we called that nationalization. It was how one earned a commemorative medal, a veteran's pension, and, of course, a nice apartment right in the heart of Washington, D.C., seized from some Jewish family whom you either lost to the Nazis or finished off yourselves.

My understanding of Cuba is shaped by reading Houellebecq's platform and listening to the firsthand accounts of a friend who actually spent time there. There is a profound level of poverty 😢 As a tourist, you’re essentially barred from even stepping foot into the local dive bars where the average Cuban gathers. Cars are a luxury almost no one possesses, and the public transit system is so unreliable that people are constantly being pulled over just trying to make it to their shifts. Then again, I can't help but wonder if this misery wouldn't be so pervasive if it weren't for the decades-long blockade imposed by the USA.
Despite the deprivation, there’s a certain resilience there—they sing, they dance, they find ways to celebrate with whatever scraps they have left. Perhaps the tropical climate provides a buffer; the mere thought of them facing a brutal winter like ours makes me shudder.

Carl Turner2 said:So, weren't you out there looting, burning, and killing alongside your own kind—or should I say, "liberating" people from their property?"

Back then, we called that nationalization. It was how one earned a commemorative medal, a veteran's pension, and, of course, a nice apartment right in the heart of Washington, D.C., seized from some Jewish family whom you either lost to the Nazis or finished off yourselves.

It was all quite a spectacle. Whatever the fascists stole, the partisans simply reclaimed, but frankly, it’s beneath me to debate such things with Krinica.

gentlemoose57 said:Good grief, so now trade restrictions are suddenly a bad thing? Isn't that basically the entire playbook for domestic conservatives here—claiming we need to protect ourselves from foreign lobbies and low-quality imports? Well, it looks like Cuba is living their absolute dream scenario.😁

What an absurd notion. While limiting imports might occasionally make sense, placing restrictions on exports is a recipe for disaster.🤦

bluerider63 said:Statistics are just a bunch of numbers that don't actually mean a damn thing half the time.

Cubans actually live longer than Americans—fewer heart attacks, fewer strokes,
way lower infant and maternal mortality rates too...
😉
it goes to show that even with basic medical setups, you can organize a solid healthcare system if you actually try,

just look at Brazil or the USA, where they have top-tier medicine (I mean, Brazil is basically the world hub for plastic surgery and cardiac stuff), yet their healthcare systems are a total mess...

Carl Turner2 said:But honestly, that’s the whole point of socialism, isn't it? They convince you that everything is fine, while compared to any standard, functional society, you're left with absolutely nothing.

The essence of socialism is turning the entire nation into one massive monastery. Everyone becomes a monk or a nun. They work hard, they pray to Marx, and that’s about it. The only thing they aren't supposed to do is procreate—though, let's be honest, that isn't exactly a priority in a monastery.😁

Naturally, they need the perfect role model for this: an ancient Chinese peasant from two millennia ago:

There’s this old story that perfectly captures Chuang Ze's philosophy regarding labor,
it's about a peasant who refused to use a pulley system
to draw water from his well. '
Some peasant had dug a well and was pulling water out
to irrigate his land. To get the water out of the
well, he just used a bucket, much like most unrefined people would. Seeing this, a passerby asked the man
why he wouldn't use a pulley: it would save him effort and allow him to get more
work done in a much more efficient way. The peasant replied:
"I know that machine saves effort, and that is exactly why I won't
use it. I fear that relying on such a device makes a man dependent on machinery. And that leads straight to laziness."

By the way, according to this chart, Cubans are ranked as the 7th happiest nation in the world: http://topforeignstocks.com/wp-conte...kings-2009.JPG
And they have several neighbors with a very similar standard of living and mindset!

There’s a story about a certain American businessman standing
on a pier in a small Mexican fishing village right as a boat pulled in. In the boat, there was just one fisherman and
a few large tuna. The American started praising the Mexican's catch and asked him
how long it had taken him to catch them.
"Oh, very little time," the Mexican replied.
The American then began questioning him about why he didn't stay out longer to catch
more fish.
The Mexican said that what he had was enough for his family.
The American kept pressing: "And what do you do when you aren't fishing?"
Then the Mexican tells him: "I sleep in late, go fishing for a bit, play with
my kids, relax with my wife, Mary, head into town every evening for
a glass of wine, and play guitar with my friends. I stay busy enough throughout the day,
Sir."
The American replied condescendingly: "Look, I have a degree in business management
from Harvard, and I can give you some solid advice. Why don't you spend more time
fishing so you can buy a bigger boat? With a larger boat, you could earn enough for
several boats. Eventually, you could own an entire fleet.
Instead of selling your fish to a middleman, you could sell directly to
the processors, and eventually even open your own cannery. You would have
total control over everything—the product, the processing, and the distribution. At that point, it would be best if you
moved to Mexico City, then to Los Angeles, and finally to New York, where you could
run a business that would surely expand globally."
"And how long would all that take, Sir?" the Mexican fisherman asked.
The American answered: "About fifteen or twenty years."
"And then what, Sir?"
The American laughed and said that this was the best part. "When the time comes, you would sell the shares of your company and strike it rich. You'd make a fortune..."

millions.«
»Millions, Sir? And then what?«
The American kept going: »And then you could finally just step back from it all. You’d move down to
some little coastal fishing village—somewhere quiet—where you could sleep whenever you felt like it, do a bit of fishing, play
with your grandkids, relax with your wife, and then head out in the evenings for a glass of wine and maybe strum
a guitar with your buddies.«