Standard of living in Cuba is better than in America

Karen Rodriguez3 said:Are you sure you aren't just unemployed and looking for stuff to invent? Maybe you just love blaming everything on others or twisting what people actually write into some weird interpretation. Either show me actual proof using posts, or just stop making things up.

Look, I’m not "making things up"—it's actually you people who keep trying to validate yourselves by constantly labeling me and my colleagues as unemployed. You act like we're just sitting around lazy when, in reality, there simply aren't any jobs available.
And honestly, it feels like you're all doing this just to downplay the absolute economic and social disaster currently unfolding here in America.
There is no way this many people are "voluntarily" unemployed. It just doesn't add up.

ruggeddriver70 said:Not sure which guy you're talking about—but honestly, steffan66 actually wrote some of the most interesting stuff about Cuba on this entire board in his first few posts.

That isn't really "reading material"—it’s more like "The Sorrows of Young Werther," I guess. His illusions of some supernatural, superhuman, heroic, ghostly tropical paradise have all just sort of evaporated. The kid finally realized that people actually live in Cuba too—believe it or not... just regular folks...
And there's a real chance that little Cuban woman from the start of the story led him straight on... well, I mean, led him on. She had him as a boyfriend, while juggling a few other foreigners she booked at different times of the year, all while keeping her local sugar daddy around—the reason she suffers and why she’ll never leave Cuba... it's the same old story, seen a thousand times before...

There are hundreds of thousands of naive types like this scattered across the globe, and they all end up shedding the exact same crocodile tears when, say, their fantasy of places like India or Thailand as these mystical, sacred lands finally falls apart...

If we’re talking about Cuba before Castro, then yeah, absolutely—back then, Cuba was easily one of the wealthiest nations in Latin America. It actually had a thriving, growing middle class, a high level of urbanization (most people were living in cities), literacy rates that were among the highest in Latin America, and average wages that were actually higher than what you'd see in West Germany or Japan at the time. Plus, they had private clinics that provided free healthcare to the poor.

Fast forward to today, and Cuba is just completely drained by Castro's social experiments—it's basically just poverty and a crumbling healthcare system. For the average Cuban, the ultimate life goal is either to emigrate to the USA or find some WASP to marry off their daughter to. Most Cubans can't afford a car, and if they do manage to get one, it's usually some ancient junk from the 60s—usually just driving around in old Beetles. Their houses are dilapidated and half-falling apart.

Anyway, if you want to know what that version of Cuba was really like, you don't have to look too far. I actually met a Cuban guy here in New York who works as a waiter for a few thousand dollars a year, and he told me that he actually views America as a well-ordered country compared to his own.

Justin Patel8 said:If we’re talking about Cuba before Castro, then yeah, absolutely—back then, Cuba was easily one of the wealthiest nations in Latin America. It actually had a thriving, growing middle class, a high level of urbanization (most people were living in cities), literacy rates that were among the highest in Latin America, and average wages that were actually higher than what you'd see in West Germany or Japan at the time. Plus, they had private clinics that provided free healthcare to the poor.

Fast forward to today, and Cuba is just completely drained by Castro's social experiments—it's basically just poverty and a crumbling healthcare system. For the average Cuban, the ultimate life goal is either to emigrate to the USA or find some WASP to marry off their daughter to. Most Cubans can't afford a car, and if they do manage to get one, it's usually some ancient junk from the 60s—usually just driving around in old Beetles. Their houses are dilapidated and half-falling apart.

Anyway, if you want to know what that version of Cuba was really like, you don't have to look too far. I actually met a Cuban guy here in New York who works as a waiter for a few thousand dollars a year, and he told me that he actually views America as a well-ordered country compared to his own.

Could you maybe back up all this nonsense about pre-Castro Cuba with a single credible link? Even the US-leaning Wikipedia article about Cuba doesn't push these kinds of myths. I mean, you don't need to be a historian to realize that most Cubans lived in absolute misery before Castro—they were struggling, mostly illiterate, and that "urbanization" was limited to a handful of cities fueled by the American mafia laundering money through gambling, drugs, and slurs in Havana. Most Cubans just dreamed of being maids, drivers, servants, or elevator boys.
The big shots in the casinos only thrived if they knew someone close to Batista.
Oh yeah, Cuba was "rich"—sure, if you count the oil and gas, which just magically vanished the moment Castro took power, right?

Pick up a book and stop embarrassing yourself with this stuff.

jadeorca42 said:Could you maybe back up all this nonsense about pre-Castro Cuba with a single credible link? Even the US-leaning Wikipedia article about Cuba doesn't push these kinds of myths. I mean, you don't need to be a historian to realize that most Cubans lived in absolute misery before Castro—they were struggling, mostly illiterate, and that "urbanization" was limited to a handful of cities fueled by the American mafia laundering money through gambling, drugs, and slurs in Havana. Most Cubans just dreamed of being maids, drivers, servants, or elevator boys.
The big shots in the casinos only thrived if they knew someone close to Batista.
Oh yeah, Cuba was "rich"—sure, if you count the oil and gas, which just magically vanished the moment Castro took power, right?

Pick up a book and stop embarrassing yourself with this stuff.

It’s ironic, really, because if you actually had an education, you wouldn't be questioning the validity of these facts. It's pretty obvious you're just trapped in your own biases—likely stemming from a tight circle of philosophy students or hippies. But hey, let's see what Wikipedia has to say about it:

Economic expansion[edit]
Although corruption was rife under Batista, Cuba did flourish economically during his regime. Wages rose significantly;[82] according to the International Labor Organization, the average industrial salary in Cuba was the world's eighth-highest in 1958, and the average agricultural wage was higher than in developed nations such as Denmark, West Germany, Belgium, and France.[82][83] Although a third of the population still lived in poverty, Cuba was one of the five most developed countries in Latin America by the end of the Batista era.[84] Only 44% of the population was rural.[85]

In the 1950s, Cuba's gross domestic product (GDP) per capita was roughly equal to that of contemporary Italy, and significantly higher than that of countries such as Japan, although Cuba's GDP per capita was still only a sixth as large as that of the United States.[82][86] According to the United Nations at the time, "one feature of the Cuban social structure [was] a large middle class".[86] Labour rights were also favourable – an eight-hour day had been established in 1933, long before most other countries, and Cuban workers were entitled to a months's paid holiday, nine days' sick leave with pay, and six weeks' holiday before and after childbirth.[87]

Cuba also had Latin America's highest per capita consumption rates of meat, vegetables, cereals, automobiles, telephones and radios during this period.[83][87][88]:186 Cuba had the fifth-highest number of televisions per capita in the world, and the world's eighth-highest number of radio stations (160). According to the United Nations, 58 different daily newspapers operated in Cuba during the late 1950s, more than any Latin American country save Brazil, Argentina and Mexico.[89] Havana was the world's fourth-most-expensive city at the time,[77] and had more cinemas than New York.[84] Cuba furthermore had the highest level of telephone] penetration in Latin America, although many telephone users were still unconnected to switchboards.[85]

Moreover, Cuba's health service was remarkably developed. It had one of the highest numbers of doctors per capita – more than in the United Kingdom at that time – and the third-lowest adult mortality rate in the world. According to the World Health Organization, the island had the lowest infant mortality rate in Latin America, and the 13th-lowest in the world – better than in contemporary France, Belgium, West Germany, Israel, Japan, Austria, Italy, Spain, and Portugal.[83][90][91]

On top of that, Cuba’s investment in education was actually the highest in Latin America when you look at it relative to their GDP.[83] According to the United Nations, Cuba boasted the fourth-highest literacy rate in the region—sitting at nearly 80%—which, funnily enough, was actually higher than Spain's rate back then.

If you bother to read the paragraph immediately following the one I linked, you'll realize that it wasn't the impoverished masses or the working class who were pushing against Batista—quite the opposite, really. He actually had the support of the labor unions since he rolled out some pretty decent conditions for them. Instead, it was—surprise, surprise—the Cuban middle and upper classes driving the discontent (and Castro himself is a perfect example of this).
Their frustration boiled down to two main things: 1.) They were constantly measuring themselves against the US, wanting to outperform them both economically and democratically, which gave them the nagging impression that the US was suppressing them. 2.) They were hungry for a return to a pluralistic democracy, which is exactly what the Batista regime had wiped out. So, the 26th of July Movement only really branded itself as a communist movement once they actually seized power; before that, the well-to-do Cubans just assumed the goal was to restore political pluralism.

Look, man—you’re seriously citing that US-photoshopped Wikipedia article about Cuba? That’s the same country the US has been targeting with aggression and illegal sanctions for decades now. I don't even feel the need to insult you when you're basically doing it to yourself 😁

I mean, you’re basically just shouting into a void where anyone can chime in—it's a free-for-all. The leftists on the forums actually carry some weight.

Justin Patel8 said:I mean, you’re basically just shouting into a void where anyone can chime in—it's a free-for-all. The leftists on the forums actually carry some weight.

We've already picked apart the situation in Cuba over and over again—across threads ranging from the USA to Venezuela and the rest of Latin America—and you could find all the links proving your nonsense wrong right there. Am I really supposed to go digging them up for you... again?
If I were you, I’d probably try a little harder, if only to avoid looking like an idiot next time...
But hey, to each their own, I guess...

jadeorca42 said:We've already picked apart the situation in Cuba over and over again—across threads ranging from the USA to Venezuela and the rest of Latin America—and you could find all the links proving your nonsense wrong right there. Am I really supposed to go digging them up for you... again?
If I were you, I’d probably try a little harder, if only to avoid looking like an idiot next time...
But hey, to each their own, I guess...

It’s clearly just an Illuminati plot—lizard people and Zionists pulling the strings of global finance and the West to usher in the NWO. Who needs historical facts anyway?

Benjamin Taylor6 said:

I'm sorry, but I don't quite follow—could you clarify what you mean? It seems like a bit of a non sequitur, or perhaps just a stray thought. If you have a specific topic or a point you want me to dive into, just let me know. I'm all ears. kaže:
Look, let’s get the facts straight—because people love to misinterpret things—the US isn't exactly stopping exports to Cuba, nor is there some total blockade preventing everything from moving back and forth. It’s really just a matter of restricting what comes *into* the American market from Cuba and limiting what we send *over* to them. It’s essentially the same dynamic you see with the tension between Russia and the EU today—it's all about controlled access and specific restrictions rather than a complete shutdown of all movement.

And whose fault is it that they aren't trading through Mexico? Or some other similar country, for that matter. Honestly, people love to point fingers, but if you look at how these trade routes are blocked off—it’s a mess. It's like trying to drive from New York to Chicago but someone decided to put up a massive, permanent roadblock right in the middle of the Midwest just because they felt like it. You can't just blame one side and expect things to work. It's complicated, and frankly, a bit ridiculous when you think about the sheer inefficiency of it all.😁

He can lecture us all he wants—spout off his endless wisdom until he's blue in the face—but let’s be real: this local guy of mine isn't ever going to listen. He's just dug in.

So, there’s this guy everyone calls the "Watch Destroyer"—and honestly, the nickname is actually quite fitting. About fifteen years ago, he showed up to work carrying a literal thermos. He called his colleagues over, treated everyone to some coffee—just a nice, quiet gesture, you know?—and then, without missing a beat, he grabbed a hammer and absolutely smashed his watch to pieces. His reasoning? He just looked at them and said, "This piece of junk is never going to wake me up again." And wouldn't you know it? He wasn't kidding. Right after that little display of defiance, the man handed in his resignation and moved out to the countryside to live a quiet life. These days, he doesn't bother waking up before 10:00 AM. He lives off the rent from an apartment his late father left him—which, if you ask me, is more than enough for a man who finally found peace. $667 Forget the whole "settling down" thing—the wife, the kids, the career climb? Just forget it. Honestly, I’d much rather spend my time alone every single day than deal with some nagging old lady breathing down my neck. Or having to drag myself out of bed at 6:00 AM because of some screaming toddlers—even if they actually were mine, which, let's face it, is a lot of hassle. And what about the flashy car or the designer clothes? Please. I’ve got my bicycle for getting around the countryside, and frankly, my late father's old work gear is plenty for me. It’ll last forever since I barely work anyway. I have this colleague, a marine engineer who even holds a higher maritime certification—he’s 53 now. This guy hasn't worked a real job since he was 38. He just spends his time tinkering with whatever little hobbies he picks up. Life is better when you aren't chasing the rat race.

I was actually catching up with him about ten days ago—just a casual conversation, you know how it goes—and he let it slip that he almost never heads out to cast his nets two days in a row. It’s not that he’s lazy, per se, but he’s smart about it; he usually pulls in enough fresh catch to cover both today and tomorrow, so why bother? He only hits those stretches where he's having truly abysmal luck—those rare, frustrating days where nothing bites—but even then, he isn't exactly looking to turn a quick profit or sell the haul. He just does it.

Look, that's totally fine—as long as it's his choice, and he's the one deciding his own lifestyle and how much money he needs, everything's cool.

But what about the ones who have kids and families, maybe even college degrees, and end up tossing four tractor inner tubes into a makeshift raft, piling on their wife, kids, mother-in-law, and two suitcases, then rowing that contraption through 90 kilometers of water crawling with sharks just to reach America?

Just imagine the scale of that situation when hundreds of thousands have fled the socialist poverty and misery cooked up by that Cuban socialist social experiment?

🤷

jadeorca42 said:Honestly, these numbers are a disaster for us. I mean, it’s kind of surreal—we’re being outpaced by a country that’s been grinding under some of the most brutal and illegal sanctions on the planet for decades. Even North Korea didn't have anything quite like this until recently, I guess.
If we were hit with a ban on luxury imports like BMW or Audi, we’d probably be starving within three months. The few people left with any actual capital would just pack up, leave America for good, and burn every bridge behind them...

A little something for those who like to downplay the impact of these illegal, aggressive (according to the UN) sanctions against Cuba

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...o_against_Cuba

Helms-Burton Act

Burton Act was condemned by the Council of Europe, the European Union, Britain, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and other U.S. allies that enjoy normal trade relations with Cuba. The governments argued that the law ran counter to the spirit of international law and sovereignty.

Following a complaint filed by the European Union with the WTO, a dispute settlement panel was set up. Eventually, they paused everything to try and hammer out a deal through negotiations. A year later, the panel basically lost its authority over the situation, and the EU just... stopped pursuing it through the WTO.

The law has also been condemned by humanitarian groups because these groups argue that sanctions against an entire country will affect only the innocent population.

The law provides for compensation of only the largest of claims for confiscated property, which mostly means big multinational corporations (we're talking roughly $6 billion). It pretty much ignores the claims of individual members of the exiled Cuban-American community who lost their own homes.

The European Union introduced a Council Regulation (No 2271/96) [9]—which is binding for all member states—declaring that the extraterritorial parts of the Helms-Burton Act aren't enforceable in the EU, while also allowing for the recovery of damages caused by it. The EU law also applied sanctions against US companies and their executives for making Title II complaints.

Read more...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_S...nhancement_Act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Democracy_Act

Sanctions against Cuba for beginners

Honestly, those "devastating" numbers seem minor compared to how much we were trailing Cuba in the Human Development Index back in the '90s—we were lagging by way more than just 0.003.

Back in 1990, our HDI was 0.689, and today it stands at 0.812. That’s a total jump of 0.123 for America.

Meanwhile, Cuba's HDI was 0.729 in 1990, and it's at 0.815 now—an increase of 0.086.

In other words, despite dealing with war and destruction on a scale Cuba never had to face, we managed to close a 0.037 gap down to just 0.003. Give it another decade or two, and we'll be flying right past them.

Tyler Jackson6 said:The UN just dropped their latest Human Development Index rankings,
and honestly, it’s pretty hilarious how America managed to stay completely stagnant—like, we didn't move an inch on the absolute value scale. Just sitting there while the rest of the world moves on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...t_of_countries

http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/human...ment-index-hdi

😲

Meanwhile, Cuba actually managed to jump ahead of us.

I mean, think about it—you've got great weather year-round and universal healthcare that actually works for everyone,
it's more about living simply rather than constant excess,
and so, you know,
people end up living longer.
They aren't out here flaunting the latest iPhone or driving a BMW,
but they're arguably happier because they aren't drowning in debt, predatory loans, or seeing red numbers on their checking accounts every single month.
Since the whole concept of equality is actually taken seriously there,
there isn't this massive gap between the ultra-rich and the working class, which keeps the kind of crime you usually see in Latin America from tearing things apart.
No narco cartels to worry about either.

So, congrats to our dear, unranked nation.

🙂

I’d suggest you pack your bags and move there today. Good luck!

Sam Wright21 said:One can't help but wonder if Cuba might have seen more significant progress had it not been for the decades-long blockade imposed by the USA.

😂 Look, the USA isn't the only country on this planet making moves like that.

Charles Lopez3 said:maybe he's just waiting around for some broke Americans,
to show up for those dirt-cheap medical checkups? ☕

Oh, absolutely, 😁

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/12/1...n-health-care/

it turns out they just whisked them away to a hospital reserved for the political elite 🤣—the only one in town that actually has an intact roof. 😂

George Morgan3 said:Oh, absolutely, 😁

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/12/1...n-health-care/

it turns out they just whisked them away to a hospital reserved for the political elite 🤣—the only one in town that actually has an intact roof. 😂

😁

Cuba is actually outperforming us.
Are we all seriously okay with that?

Charles Lopez3 said:😁

Cuba is actually outperforming us.
Are we all seriously okay with that?

Like someone already told a guy: if you aren't loving life here in the States, just move to Cuba.
And hey, send us all a postcard while you're at it.
Go dance and be happy like every other Cuban. I don't get why you're complaining here.

I’m just sitting here waiting,
honestly just praying I get my (stolen) property back
and that those thieves get kicked to the curb once and for all
- maybe send 'em straight to San Quentin, Alcatraz, or Rikers Island😁

Charles Lopez3 said:😁

Cuba is actually outperforming us.
Are we all seriously okay with that?

So what? There's no shame in it... 😁

Charles Lopez3 said:I’m just sitting here waiting,
honestly just praying I get my (stolen) property back
and that those thieves get kicked to the curb once and for all
- maybe send 'em straight to San Quentin, Alcatraz, or Rikers Island😁

Your answer doesn't help at all.
Just pack your bags and head to Cuba where life is supposedly great, everyone's partying, and stress doesn't exist. You'll forget about America in no time.

Charles Lopez3 said:I’m just sitting here waiting,
honestly just praying I get my (stolen) property back
and that those thieves get kicked to the curb once and for all
- maybe send 'em straight to San Quentin, Alcatraz, or Rikers Island😁

The truth is, there are no
actually honest or decent socialists (or even the opportunists lounging in comfy office chairs within a socialist system)
it only exists in the minds of naive idealists
who believe you can run a society fairly through sheer force

That’s why we need to reel in the scope of power and move past this whole socialist legacy once and for all.
We're slowly sinking, just maybe a little slower than when the old socialist America collapsed. ☕