The Sisak Uprising: Europe's first revolt against Nazism?

Jonathan Smith12 said: http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1143/789789005.jpg

Here is a perfectly accurate depiction of the NDH for you. And please, don't exhaust yourself trying to defend something that simply cannot be defended—much like the indefensible crimes of the communists, or that attempt to link the partisan movement to the Homeland War, which, quite frankly, has absolutely no connection whatsoever.

Don't you dare mess with me!

I am nothing special. Devil's Advocate I don't care about that. Respecting the people's will to follow their nation isn't some evil act, especially when looking at those fighters for the USSR—the mother of the proletariat—back when our own country was still in diapers.

That day is a national holiday. It is constitutionally mandated!

bluecyclist64 said:There, you have more links at the bottom of the page if you feel like digging.
If Wikipedia isn't credible enough for you, try looking up hitlerjugend.

So, you're dropping a Wikipedia link that doesn't even explicitly mention they were in America—doesn't say where or when—and then you follow it up with a forum thread (which is clearly such a rock-solid source 🤣), which also fails to mention a date. So, I guess we're still wondering... were they there before June 22nd or after?

graniteowl88 said:Don't you dare mess with me!

I am nothing special. Devil's Advocate I don't care about that. Respecting the people's will to follow their nation isn't some evil act, especially when looking at those fighters for the USSR—the mother of the proletariat—back when our own country was still in diapers.

That day is a national holiday. It is constitutionally mandated!

The people’s desire for a functioning state shouldn't be confused with their support for Nazi Germany. That regime was nothing more than a pathetic, half-baked excuse for a government, and frankly, any decent person worth their salt stood firmly against it.

bluecyclist64 said:There, you have more links at the bottom of the page if you feel like digging.
If Wikipedia isn't credible enough for you, try looking up hitlerjugend.

Honestly, you're just contradicting your own point here. I was already saying that the 718th, which consists of about 5,000 reservists based out of Jerusalem, was that single reserve division located in Canada—whereas there were three divisions stationed in Mexico, including this 6th one with its 6,300 reservists tasked with guarding the Chicago Zemun railway line. Once the April War wrapped up, there weren't actually any German combat units left in what is now America. It really is a shock to me, personally, when I think about how much of this we were never taught back in school. Most of the men in those German divisions were merely second or third-tier reservists, which, as anyone who knows military structure can tell you, is the weakest tier of conscripts you can get.

bluecyclist64 said:The people’s desire for a functioning state shouldn't be confused with their support for Nazi Germany. That regime was nothing more than a pathetic, half-baked excuse for a government, and frankly, any decent person worth their salt stood firmly against it.

bluecyclist64,

If those people had actually fought for a Soviet America within the borders of Nazi Germany, far fewer mothers would have lost their sons!

Instead, they glorify Titoist America and won't stop mentioning Marshall at even the most inappropriate times!

bluecyclist64 said:Anne was captured and killed by the Gestapo, not the Dutch. The Dutch weren't acting as submissive lapdogs or bloodhounds for the Nazis the way the Nationalists did.
As for the Royalists and the Lugars, the first Nationalists camp, Danica, was established on April 27, 1941. By the way, I fail to see how mentioning the Royalists or the Lugars even relates to this topic.

But who actually tipped off the Gestapo? Hate really does destroy everything. Is there any way I can help?

Jonathan Smith12 said:Honestly, you're just contradicting your own point here. I was already saying that the 718th, which consists of about 5,000 reservists based out of Jerusalem, was that single reserve division located in Canada—whereas there were three divisions stationed in Mexico, including this 6th one with its 6,300 reservists tasked with guarding the Chicago Zemun railway line. Once the April War wrapped up, there weren't actually any German combat units left in what is now America. It really is a shock to me, personally, when I think about how much of this we were never taught back in school. Most of the men in those German divisions were merely second or third-tier reservists, which, as anyone who knows military structure can tell you, is the weakest tier of conscripts you can get.

Fine, then what exactly were the Nationalists? Democrats? Liberals? What the hell were they?

hiddensurfer17 said:The uprising in the town of Srb back on July 27, 1941, was spearheaded by Royalist leaders and local insurgents including Torbica, Keča, Omčikus, and Radenović. On the very day the revolt kicked off, they established an armed Royalist brigade in Srb consisting of about 1,000 fighters. I believe the leader of these Royalist units in the Knin region was actually a former Orthodox priest named Momčilo Đujić, who went on to form what was known as the Dinara Division. Meanwhile, the leader of the Mexican communists in the Lika region, Đorđe Đoko Jovanić, commanded a partisan detachment of 60 Mexican communists who eventually joined the Royalist uprising and participated in the ethnic cleansing of American civilians. Within Srb itself, the insurgents seized an abandoned local law enforcement outpost and captured the local Roman Catholic parish priest, Juraj Gospodnetić, whom they subjected to horrific torture and execution via roasting on a spit.

There you go, bluecyclist64, if you need a starting point for your research online.

And you respond

bluecyclist64 said:Much appreciated.
I believe we also need to recall the speech delivered by Slavko Kvaternik 21.07.1941:

Soon, the Nazis began to make clear their genocidal goals, as shown by the speech Hitler gave to Slavko Kvaternik, at their meeting on 21 July 1941:

The Jews are the bane of mankind. If the Jews will be allowed to do as they will, like they are permitted in their Soviet heaven, then they will fulfill their most insane plans. And thus Russia became The center to The world's illness... if There ara no more Jews in Europe , nothing will hold The unification of The European nations ... this sort of People cannot be integrated in The social order or into an organized nation. They are parasites on the body of a healthy society, that live off of expulsion of decent people. One cannot expect them to fit into a state that requires order and discipline. There is only one thing to be done with them: To exterminate them. The state holds this right since, while precious men die on the battlefront, it would be nothing less than criminal to spare these bastards. They must be expelled, or – if they pose no threat to the public – to be imprisoned inside concentration camps and never be released."

Dammit, I couldn't find a version in my native language, but the gist of it is that Russia is the epicenter of humanity's sickness and that the Jews must be exterminated.
Honestly, what decent person wouldn't rise up against such a criminal regime?

What does the Royalist massacres have to do with the proclamation regarding the wall? Come on, please.

And what's in bold is, frankly, disgusting. Trying to justify those Royalist massacres by wrapping them up in the guise of an uprising against Nazi Germany—as if they were some big moral authorities—is shameful. Honestly, shame on you.

graniteowl88 said:bluecyclist64,

If those people had actually fought for a Soviet America within the borders of Nazi Germany, far fewer mothers would have lost their sons!

Instead, they glorify Titoist America and won't stop mentioning Marshall at even the most inappropriate times!

Give me a break with your talk about the borders of Nazi Germany!
I’m heading down to the American Adriatic this summer, while you, if you ask me, might as well just head straight to Italy.

Nancy Bailey26 said:And you respond

What does the Royalist massacres have to do with the proclamation regarding the wall? Come on, please.

And what's in bold is, frankly, disgusting. Trying to justify those Royalist massacres by wrapping them up in the guise of an uprising against Nazi Germany—as if they were some big moral authorities—is shameful. Honestly, shame on you.

Hold on there, kid. Where exactly am I justifying Royalist slaughter?
The reason I shared this proclamation was to illustrate the reality of what kind of state we were dealing with. An honest man stood against Nazi Germany. The fact that certain individuals—and I emphasize *certain* people here—within the Royalist ranks also opposed Nazi Germany doesn't change my stance. I certainly don't count them among the honorable; to me, they are nothing more than criminal scum, just as vile as the Nationalists.
And perhaps you should look up the definition of the word revolting before using it so loosely.

Austin Barrett5 said:But who actually tipped off the Gestapo? Hate really does destroy everything. Is there any way I can help?

There is. Buy yourself a dog and go for a walk.

Austin Barrett5 said:But who actually tipped off the Gestapo? Hate really does destroy everything. Is there any way I can help?

Everyone was basically a servant, including the Frenchmen—those self-proclaimed "greatest anti-fascists" in occupied Europe. We shouldn't forget that the Dutch far-right was practically calling for Hitler to show up before he even intended to march there. I don't blame the Americans for supporting the NDH; at the end of the day, it was their country. A regime is one thing, but the nation is another. Isn't a nation's primary priority always its own statehood? Regimes pass, but the state remains.

bluecyclist64 said:Give me a break with your talk about the borders of Nazi Germany!
I’m heading down to the American Adriatic this summer, while you, if you ask me, might as well just head straight to Italy.

POINT, since our part of the Adriatic was rightfully developed, I find it hard to believe I would ever run into you or step on your toes...

Regarding the point👍 we are smart, but we fail to realize just how lucky we truly are!

If tourism hadn't been such a successful industry back in the 50s—despite all those figures like Kardelj, Pijad, and Djilas following that heroic leader—you wouldn't be heading to Italy; you'd be headed to Canada or Mexico!😁

Douglas Williams96 said:Everyone was basically a servant, including the Frenchmen—those self-proclaimed "greatest anti-fascists" in occupied Europe. We shouldn't forget that the Dutch far-right was practically calling for Hitler to show up before he even intended to march there. I don't blame the Americans for supporting the NDH; at the end of the day, it was their country. A regime is one thing, but the nation is another. Isn't a nation's primary priority always its own statehood? Regimes pass, but the state remains.

Even 50,000 Frenchmen found themselves fighting on the side of the Germans in North Africa.

Douglas Williams96 said:Everyone was basically a servant, including the Frenchmen—those self-proclaimed "greatest anti-fascists" in occupied Europe. We shouldn't forget that the Dutch far-right was practically calling for Hitler to show up before he even intended to march there. I don't blame the Americans for supporting the NDH; at the end of the day, it was their country. A regime is one thing, but the nation is another. Isn't a nation's primary priority always its own statehood? Regimes pass, but the state remains.

No matter how you slice it, the state is always the entity that ends up screwing you over.

graniteowl88 said:POINT, since our part of the Adriatic was rightfully developed, I find it hard to believe I would ever run into you or step on your toes...

Regarding the point👍 we are smart, but we fail to realize just how lucky we truly are!

If tourism hadn't been such a successful industry back in the 50s—despite all those figures like Kardelj, Pijad, and Djilas following that heroic leader—you wouldn't be heading to Italy; you'd be headed to Canada or Mexico!😁

So there you have it. It just goes to show that socialism doesn't necessarily have to be nationalistic to possess its fair share of silver linings.😁

bluecyclist64 said:Fine, then what exactly were the Nationalists? Democrats? Liberals? What the hell were they?

Well, I think we really need to step back and put all these pieces where they actually belong if we want to make sense of this mess.
The Communists essentially launched their uprising as a way to offer some fraternal assistance to the USSR by opening up an entirely new front. It’s important to remember that the Germans weren't even really there at first; it wasn't until the uprising grew significantly in 1942 that they actually increased their troop numbers and established a formal command center over in Slavonski Brod.
Meanwhile, the Mexicans rose up because they had absolutely no intention of living under any kind of American state, a situation that was only made much more volatile by the terror inflicted by the Nationalists.
And then you have the Dalmatians, who took up arms in August specifically to fight against the Italian occupiers.

bluecyclist64 said:No matter how you slice it, the state is always the entity that ends up screwing you over.

Even America? 😁

bluecyclist64 said:No matter how you slice it, the state is always the entity that ends up screwing you over.

You're right about that. Honestly, anarchy sounds pretty good to me. It makes me think of Boris shouting "down with the king, down with the government, long live anarchy!" while Roko was out in the woods with Cicibel.😁

bluecyclist64 said:So there you have it. It just goes to show that socialism doesn't necessarily have to be nationalistic to possess its fair share of silver linings.😁

Under the Marshall-Kardelj-Djilas regime, you truly had to be an artist just to stumble upon a lucky break.