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Psychotropic medication discussion thread

Started by Robin Myers91 · · 👁 479 views · 10K replies

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Participants Robin Myers91Eric Wood7Maria Gomez6crimsonhound80Tyler Ortiz6dustyscout41Andrew Stewart2George Ramos64Morgan Long49Jason Sanchez3briskgull27Charles Edwards8Brenda Allen2hollowtinker8bluecyclist28electricorca13David Kern14Ashley Morganwanderingscout13Sam Hall15coppergardenerCarl Thompson4Mark Stewartanalognomad762 …
Timothy Wood38 Timothy Wood38 Active Member
197 messages
joined Feb 2011
#2761 ·
quietgull75 said:So, what actually happens when a healthy person takes something like Haldol? I can tell you firsthand—I was 12 and did it just being stupid. Like someone else mentioned, I ended up with symptoms basically identical to Parkinson's. It was brutal—easily one of the worst days, or two, of my entire life.
It kicked in a few hours after I took it, and then the dread and anxiety just set in. Then came the stiffness—every single muscle started seizing up, my fingers cramped, my eyes were rolling upward uncontrollably, my face froze into this grimace, and my tongue—well, my tongue locked up and stuck out of my mouth, and I couldn't stop it. Mentally, I felt like garbage. I ended up in the ER where they gave me an injection of Akineton, if I remember right, just to get my muscles to relax. Just wanted to share that experience—definitely wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I don't quite follow... you pretty much answered your own question. It's well-documented that haloperidol causes extrapyramidal symptoms, which is exactly why doctors usually prescribe Akineton alongside Haldol.
driftinggull21 driftinggull21 Active Member
247 messages
joined Mar 2010
#2762 ·
Anthony Lopez8 said:I think I follow what you're getting at, but I have to ask: what on earth does an IMDb database have to do with the actual point being made here? 😕 😬

🤣
I was wondering the exact same thing.😁
boldpilot2 boldpilot2 Member
18 messages
joined Nov 2011
#2763 ·
Anthony Lopez8 said:I think I follow what you're getting at, but I have to ask: what on earth does an IMDb database have to do with the actual point being made here? 😕 😬

John Doe... Fine. Whether it's the WHO or whatever 😂 I might have made the connection because I was actually looking up RE/MAX right before I started typing this. 😁

Jane Doe, thanks to you and everyone else too. 🙂

Who knows... maybe they find some miracle cure? Personally, I don't know what I am, especially since I don't see much difference between "normal" people (always questionable, and he constantly puts that in quotes) and us "abnormals." Obviously, it's not quite ten pills a day. I just hope things stay as they are. That nothing flips into something worse. Or worse. Or worse still.

All in all, it's not all bad. That's my outlook. Everyone hits a dark patch in old age eventually. First comes the lack of money, then fatigue, then actual illness. Etc.
boldpilot2 boldpilot2 Member
18 messages
joined Nov 2011
#2764 ·
Apologies for the double post; editing is unavailable. I have a question for the group: is there a reliable anxiolytic out there? I am not guessing; I am certain I have this condition. I check almost every box. The worst parts are the inability to fall asleep quickly and the sensation that my heart is racing at a thousand miles per hour. I relied heavily on Xanax to try and calm down or sleep, but it isn't working... likely because I overused it. What else is available? Valium? Some reports mention hallucinations. I have no desire to experience that. It was mentioned regarding Smith, but nothing occurred, and it wasn't particularly effective either. And does everything cause dependency? It certainly won't resolve itself in three days. This irrational fear and constant dread are exhausting. Is there anything effective, and can a primary care physician prescribe it rather than a psychiatrist? What are your experiences? Any suggestions for sleep? Falling asleep takes about three hours.
Timothy Wood38 Timothy Wood38 Active Member
197 messages
joined Feb 2011
#2765 ·
boldpilot2 said:Apologies for the double post; editing is unavailable. I have a question for the group: is there a reliable anxiolytic out there? I am not guessing; I am certain I have this condition. I check almost every box. The worst parts are the inability to fall asleep quickly and the sensation that my heart is racing at a thousand miles per hour. I relied heavily on Xanax to try and calm down or sleep, but it isn't working... likely because I overused it. What else is available? Valium? Some reports mention hallucinations. I have no desire to experience that. It was mentioned regarding Smith, but nothing occurred, and it wasn't particularly effective either. And does everything cause dependency? It certainly won't resolve itself in three days. This irrational fear and constant dread are exhausting. Is there anything effective, and can a primary care physician prescribe it rather than a psychiatrist? What are your experiences? Any suggestions for sleep? Falling asleep takes about three hours.

What are you almost certain you have? Maybe generalized anxiety disorder or something similar, but have you seen a psychiatrist yet? In my opinion, only a professional can actually give you a diagnosis. That stuff you mentioned is essentially just Diazepam. If you are looking for an anxiolytic with strong hypnotic effects, I might suggest Midazolam—which is known as Dormicum in our market—or perhaps Flurazepam. Though, honestly, I have no idea how any specific medication will affect someone, given how much metabolism varies. You're probably best off seeking professional medical help.
boldpilot2 boldpilot2 Member
18 messages
joined Nov 2011
#2766 ·
Timothy Wood38 said:What are you almost certain you have? Maybe generalized anxiety disorder or something similar, but have you seen a psychiatrist yet? In my opinion, only a professional can actually give you a diagnosis. That stuff you mentioned is essentially just Diazepam. If you are looking for an anxiolytic with strong hypnotic effects, I might suggest Midazolam—which is known as Dormicum in our market—or perhaps Flurazepam. Though, honestly, I have no idea how any specific medication will affect someone, given how much metabolism varies. You're probably best off seeking professional medical help.

I saw a psych. But I didn't realize it was this significant of an issue until now. Clearly, it is. It's more pressing than the schizophrenia. This is my number one concern right now. My follow-up is at the beginning of December. I will ask her, obviously. Dealing with this insomnia and all that... it isn't pleasant. I actually panicked when my pulse hit 85. I thought it was a heart issue, but then I noticed I have these frequent physical symptoms:
Psychological symptoms of anxiety include excessive fearfulness and apprehension, a sense of internal tension or restlessness, impaired concentration, irritability, increased sensitivity to noise, sleep disturbances (difficulty falling asleep, frequent waking during the night, nightmares), impaired memory due to poor attention and focus. Physical symptoms of anxiety include palpitations or skipped heartbeats, shortness of breath or labored breathing, chest tightness, dry mouth, difficulty swallowing, stomach discomfort, bloating, frequent urination, decreased libido, tinnitus, feelings of loneliness, numbness in the limbs, and hand tremors.

I realized it had to be anxiety. However, I am wary of aggressive medications, especially if they require long-term use 🙂. I just switched from Zyprexa and Faverin to Risperdal and Depakote. There haven't been any major side effects. But adding an anxiolytic now? Like Zoloft 🙂? What is that going to do to me? Is it really going to crush me 😢?

Edit: If it's only dangerous regarding dependency (later on), then it's fine :P
This is a non-starter for me! Frequently, doctors prescribe SSRIs (fluoxetine - Prozac, paroxetine - Paxil, sertraline - Zoloft......) and, during the initial stages of treatment, benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax....).
Timothy Wood38 Timothy Wood38 Active Member
197 messages
joined Feb 2011
#2767 ·
boldpilot2 said:I saw a psych. But I didn't realize it was this significant of an issue until now. Clearly, it is. It's more pressing than the schizophrenia. This is my number one concern right now. My follow-up is at the beginning of December. I will ask her, obviously. Dealing with this insomnia and all that... it isn't pleasant. I actually panicked when my pulse hit 85. I thought it was a heart issue, but then I noticed I have these frequent physical symptoms:
Psychological symptoms of anxiety include excessive fearfulness and apprehension, a sense of internal tension or restlessness, impaired concentration, irritability, increased sensitivity to noise, sleep disturbances (difficulty falling asleep, frequent waking during the night, nightmares), impaired memory due to poor attention and focus. Physical symptoms of anxiety include palpitations or skipped heartbeats, shortness of breath or labored breathing, chest tightness, dry mouth, difficulty swallowing, stomach discomfort, bloating, frequent urination, decreased libido, tinnitus, feelings of loneliness, numbness in the limbs, and hand tremors.

I realized it had to be anxiety. However, I am wary of aggressive medications, especially if they require long-term use 🙂. I just switched from Zyprexa and Faverin to Risperdal and Depakote. There haven't been any major side effects. But adding an anxiolytic now? Like Zoloft 🙂? What is that going to do to me? Is it really going to crush me 😢?

Edit: If it's only dangerous regarding dependency (later on), then it's fine :P
This is a non-starter for me! Frequently, doctors prescribe SSRIs (fluoxetine - Prozac, paroxetine - Paxil, sertraline - Zoloft......) and, during the initial stages of treatment, benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax....).

Just hold on a second—it seems to me you might be a bit of a hypochondriac. How can sleep issues or GAD be a bigger problem than schizophrenia? Usually, those things just come as part of the package. You shouldn't be afraid of anxiolytics; they are actually very effective drugs, even if most of them carry a risk of both physical and psychological dependency, not to mention building up a tolerance. Please, let me know what specific diagnosis your doctor gave you? And why are you bringing up Zoloft? That's an antidepressant, not an anxiolytic. Based on the meds you've taken and are currently on, I could guess several different diagnoses, so please tell me exactly what yours is—or if there are multiple—so I can actually be helpful.
boldpilot2 boldpilot2 Member
18 messages
joined Nov 2011
#2768 ·
First, it was listed as F20.6, simple schizophrenia. Now it just says F20. That’s what scarlet mentioned regarding the requirement for paranoia. Honestly, I don't understand how they switched to paranoid without any history of speech issues. It's absurd to me because that diagnosis implies hallucinations and such. I read extensively on schizophrenia and can swear I have zero auditory, visual, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory hallucinations. Seriously. I'm done being spooked by movies like *A Beautiful Mind* or clips on YouTube. That isn't how I act. Even if I did hear voices or experience delusions, I would end myself. I certainly wouldn't claim it's "normal." I am afraid of things that aren't there. Besides, neither my family nor anyone else has noticed any hallucinations. The only thing is humming or complaining when the computer acts up 🤣. If I talk to myself internally, it's just me. Not Hitler or some voice. And I consider constructive thought to be a form of conversation. (For example, if I placed object A on board B, what would the pressure force be? I'd guess 2N. But that's irrelevant...) You get the point; it's a poor example, but that's the gist. These are the "official" symptoms, but I will highlight the ones I actually feel and those others have noted:

The DSM states the following characteristic symptoms:

a) Thought insertion or withdrawal, thought echoing or broadcasting; -none of that transmission stuff here. I had OCD previously, so there were compulsions related to that, like washing hands or dying!
b) Delusions of control, influence, or passivity relating to:
- body or bodily movements, -no 😲
- specific thoughts, actions, or sensations, -what specific ones? I wouldn't say any...
- delusional perceptions; -no 😲
c) Hallucinatory voices that: -no 😲
- comment on the patient's behavior,
- discuss the patient among themselves,
- various forms of hallucinatory voices emanating from a body part; -from where? Those things?
d) Persistent bizarre delusions that are impossible or inconsistent with the patient's culture and intellect: -haha, interesting, but I'm not an alien or anything
- impossible political, scientific, or religious identities,
- superhuman abilities or powers, e.g., controlling time,
- communication with extraterrestrials, etc.;
e) Persistent hallucinations of any modality when accompanied by transient delusions without emotional content, or persistent overvalued ideas, or when hallucinations are persistently present for weeks or months; -as I said, no!
f) Disorganized thinking, irrelevant and disorganized speech, neologisms (creating new meaningless words); -I wouldn't say that. My speech is perfectly normal. Except I am quite anxious about almost every word. Due to shame and fear.
g) Catatonic behavior - marked rigidity or maintaining unnatural postures, or extreme agitation; -no!
h) Negative symptoms such as apathy, poverty of speech, blunted affect, or inappropriate emotional response, which typically lead to social withdrawal and decline in social functioning. -that happened at the beginning, alongside the OCD. Perhaps my responses are inadequate?
i) Significant and persistent changes in behavior in terms of loss of interest, aimlessness, preoccupation with self, and social withdrawal. -this is the most prominent.

So, basically... I am certain I have no illusions, delusions, or hallucinations... Tinnitus? No, that isn't it.

The F20 diagnosis stands. If that's classified as paranoid, then the hallucinations aren't there. You would notice them in a house with four people constantly present. I dealt with intense suicidal ideation and increased aggression. What else? Perhaps grandiose, unrealistic plans? Or constant shifts in interests—gaming one day, sports the next. Given what exists:

In clinical studies, we distinguish several types of schizophrenia based on the dominant symptom groups.

The paranoid type is characterized by pronounced delusions and hallucinations. Most commonly, these involve persecutory delusions.
Disorganized or hebephrenic schizophrenia is dominated by symptoms of incoherent, disconnected, or illogical speech and disorganized behavior.
The catatonic type is quite rare today; it involves impaired posture, extreme purposeless motor agitation, or complete physical rigidity known as stupor.
If no specific symptoms predominate, it is referred to as undifferentiated schizophrenia.
Residual schizophrenia is characterized by an absence of prominent delusions, hallucinations, or disorganized speech/behavior, though evidence of the disorder remains through negative symptoms, odd beliefs, or unusual sensory experiences.

I don't fit into any of those categories. Honestly, I am unsure where I land. I don't feel better or worse without medication. For the last six months, it has just been insomnia and certain anxieties. Presumably, the psychiatrists know best. They likely "hit" the mark somehow, even if I don't recognize these primary symptoms.
Timothy Wood38 Timothy Wood38 Active Member
197 messages
joined Feb 2011
#2769 ·
boldpilot2 said:First, it was listed as F20.6, simple schizophrenia. Now it just says F20. That’s what scarlet mentioned regarding the requirement for paranoia. Honestly, I don't understand how they switched to paranoid without any history of speech issues. It's absurd to me because that diagnosis implies hallucinations and such. I read extensively on schizophrenia and can swear I have zero auditory, visual, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory hallucinations. Seriously. I'm done being spooked by movies like *A Beautiful Mind* or clips on YouTube. That isn't how I act. Even if I did hear voices or experience delusions, I would end myself. I certainly wouldn't claim it's "normal." I am afraid of things that aren't there. Besides, neither my family nor anyone else has noticed any hallucinations. The only thing is humming or complaining when the computer acts up 🤣. If I talk to myself internally, it's just me. Not Hitler or some voice. And I consider constructive thought to be a form of conversation. (For example, if I placed object A on board B, what would the pressure force be? I'd guess 2N. But that's irrelevant...) You get the point; it's a poor example, but that's the gist. These are the "official" symptoms, but I will highlight the ones I actually feel and those others have noted:

The DSM states the following characteristic symptoms:

a) Thought insertion or withdrawal, thought echoing or broadcasting; -none of that transmission stuff here. I had OCD previously, so there were compulsions related to that, like washing hands or dying!
b) Delusions of control, influence, or passivity relating to:
- body or bodily movements, -no 😲
- specific thoughts, actions, or sensations, -what specific ones? I wouldn't say any...
- delusional perceptions; -no 😲
c) Hallucinatory voices that: -no 😲
- comment on the patient's behavior,
- discuss the patient among themselves,
- various forms of hallucinatory voices emanating from a body part; -from where? Those things?
d) Persistent bizarre delusions that are impossible or inconsistent with the patient's culture and intellect: -haha, interesting, but I'm not an alien or anything
- impossible political, scientific, or religious identities,
- superhuman abilities or powers, e.g., controlling time,
- communication with extraterrestrials, etc.;
e) Persistent hallucinations of any modality when accompanied by transient delusions without emotional content, or persistent overvalued ideas, or when hallucinations are persistently present for weeks or months; -as I said, no!
f) Disorganized thinking, irrelevant and disorganized speech, neologisms (creating new meaningless words); -I wouldn't say that. My speech is perfectly normal. Except I am quite anxious about almost every word. Due to shame and fear.
g) Catatonic behavior - marked rigidity or maintaining unnatural postures, or extreme agitation; -no!
h) Negative symptoms such as apathy, poverty of speech, blunted affect, or inappropriate emotional response, which typically lead to social withdrawal and decline in social functioning. -that happened at the beginning, alongside the OCD. Perhaps my responses are inadequate?
i) Significant and persistent changes in behavior in terms of loss of interest, aimlessness, preoccupation with self, and social withdrawal. -this is the most prominent.

So, basically... I am certain I have no illusions, delusions, or hallucinations... Tinnitus? No, that isn't it.

The F20 diagnosis stands. If that's classified as paranoid, then the hallucinations aren't there. You would notice them in a house with four people constantly present. I dealt with intense suicidal ideation and increased aggression. What else? Perhaps grandiose, unrealistic plans? Or constant shifts in interests—gaming one day, sports the next. Given what exists:

In clinical studies, we distinguish several types of schizophrenia based on the dominant symptom groups.

The paranoid type is characterized by pronounced delusions and hallucinations. Most commonly, these involve persecutory delusions.
Disorganized or hebephrenic schizophrenia is dominated by symptoms of incoherent, disconnected, or illogical speech and disorganized behavior.
The catatonic type is quite rare today; it involves impaired posture, extreme purposeless motor agitation, or complete physical rigidity known as stupor.
If no specific symptoms predominate, it is referred to as undifferentiated schizophrenia.
Residual schizophrenia is characterized by an absence of prominent delusions, hallucinations, or disorganized speech/behavior, though evidence of the disorder remains through negative symptoms, odd beliefs, or unusual sensory experiences.

I don't fit into any of those categories. Honestly, I am unsure where I land. I don't feel better or worse without medication. For the last six months, it has just been insomnia and certain anxieties. Presumably, the psychiatrists know best. They likely "hit" the mark somehow, even if I don't recognize these primary symptoms.

What can I tell you? Go get a second opinion. I've cycled through more than five different psychiatrists, and almost every single one tried to write me a new diagnosis or tack on another one. At the end of the day, they're just people, and unfortunately, sometimes they're too limited by their own experiences. I'm no expert, but my take is that you don't have schizophrenia. If insomnia is the real issue, ask for a hypnotic: zolpidem, flurazepam, midazolam; or maybe something from a different class with strong sedative effects. For instance, I handle my insomnia with 300 mg of prazosin and 20 mg of Sanval. Some people sleep fine on just 25 mg of prazosin; I don't think there's a hard rule for it. Just don't give up. Keep seeking treatment, switch doctors if you have to, and eventually, you'll find a solution.
boldpilot2 boldpilot2 Member
18 messages
joined Nov 2011
#2770 ·
Timothy Wood38 said:What can I tell you? Go get a second opinion. I've cycled through more than five different psychiatrists, and almost every single one tried to write me a new diagnosis or tack on another one. At the end of the day, they're just people, and unfortunately, sometimes they're too limited by their own experiences. I'm no expert, but my take is that you don't have schizophrenia. If insomnia is the real issue, ask for a hypnotic: zolpidem, flurazepam, midazolam; or maybe something from a different class with strong sedative effects. For instance, I handle my insomnia with 300 mg of prazosin and 20 mg of Sanval. Some people sleep fine on just 25 mg of prazosin; I don't think there's a hard rule for it. Just don't give up. Keep seeking treatment, switch doctors if you have to, and eventually, you'll find a solution.

I agree. But where does one go for a second opinion? Right now I'm in Queens, seeing a younger doctor on ward X. I don't think Brooklyn is anything to boast about either. So where else? A private practitioner would likely be best. But which one? At least I need to see what they suggest. Any recommendations? Or anyone else? I am certain that one must either stick to the therapy, change doctors, or adjust things significantly until the right treatment and psychiatrist are found. If nothing else, I want to see some alternative thoughts. From someone... better? If that is even possible.

Edit: In the city, I only found this.
Timothy Wood38 Timothy Wood38 Active Member
197 messages
joined Feb 2011
#2771 ·
boldpilot2 said:I agree. But where does one go for a second opinion? Right now I'm in Queens, seeing a younger doctor on ward X. I don't think Brooklyn is anything to boast about either. So where else? A private practitioner would likely be best. But which one? At least I need to see what they suggest. Any recommendations? Or anyone else? I am certain that one must either stick to the therapy, change doctors, or adjust things significantly until the right treatment and psychiatrist are found. If nothing else, I want to see some alternative thoughts. From someone... better? If that is even possible.

Edit: In the city, I only found this.

Your best bet is probably to dig through the "experiences and recommendations" threads here; usually, there's a dedicated section for psychiatrists on this forum, so you really can't miss it. Sadly, I can't give you a specific name for a good psychiatrist—I don't want to sound like I'm running an ad campaign or anything. I don't know how heavy your situation is, but generally speaking, psychiatrists are limited by their own specific experiences, which is both a blessing and a curse depending on the patient. As for me, I basically manage myself and adjust my own dosages; I have a decent family doctor who handles my prescriptions, and that's how I fight my way through. Anyway, keep fighting. Don't ever give up!
Nicole Barrett76 Nicole Barrett76 Regular
515 messages
joined Sep 2009
#2772 ·
Timothy Wood38 said:Your best bet is probably to dig through the "experiences and recommendations" threads here; usually, there's a dedicated section for psychiatrists on this forum, so you really can't miss it. Sadly, I can't give you a specific name for a good psychiatrist—I don't want to sound like I'm running an ad campaign or anything. I don't know how heavy your situation is, but generally speaking, psychiatrists are limited by their own specific experiences, which is both a blessing and a curse depending on the patient. As for me, I basically manage myself and adjust my own dosages; I have a decent family doctor who handles my prescriptions, and that's how I fight my way through. Anyway, keep fighting. Don't ever give up!

It is truly wonderful if you have such a supportive family physician. Unfortunately, my own doctor refuses to take any steps without consulting a specialist first, which I find absolutely dreadful. For instance, I spoke with the local neuropsychiatrist responsible for my care and expressed my desire to be approved for two tablets of unspecified. He flatly refused, claiming he isn't inclined to prescribe high doses or complex combinations of psychotropic drugs since he believes my issues aren't quite that deep. While I don't necessarily disagree that they aren't profound, I feel that one tablet of unspecified—which is an antidepressant—simply isn't enough for me. I am convinced that two tablets would be the optimal dose. This is especially critical because I am about to start a very high-stress, low-paying job. I am desperate to work, but given my disability and my progressive chronic illness, I really have no other career options available to me.

I believe that, by some measure of mental constitution, I am a relatively strong person and that I handle this illness quite well. However, I do not claim to be among the strongest of all. Therefore, I am certain that the combination of workplace stress and a progressive chronic illness makes an additional unspecified a necessary prerequisite. While I am genuinely pleased that this neuropsychiatrist does not lean toward massive pharmacotherapy—unlike other psychiatrists I have encountered—I also feel he has overstepped by keeping the antidepressant dosage relatively low. My intrusive thoughts remain incredibly intense, and wouldn't a second opinion be immensely beneficial at this stage?

Is there perhaps somewhere in the greater New York City area a sort of... specialized (neuro)psychiatrist who focuses specifically on providing second opinions? I am thinking of someone where you could present your medical records, attend a couple of sessions, pay the fee, and receive a truly objective assessment? Since I will soon be starting work, the idea of researching various experiences with different psychiatrists and psychologists feels far too overwhelming to undertake right now.
Kenneth Scott41 Kenneth Scott41 Regular
457 messages
joined May 2009
#2773 ·
boldpilot2 said:First, it was listed as F20.6, simple schizophrenia. Now it just says F20. That’s what scarlet mentioned regarding the requirement for paranoia. Honestly, I don't understand how they switched to paranoid without any history of speech issues. It's absurd to me because that diagnosis implies hallucinations and such. I read extensively on schizophrenia and can swear I have zero auditory, visual, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory hallucinations. Seriously. I'm done being spooked by movies like *A Beautiful Mind* or clips on YouTube. That isn't how I act. Even if I did hear voices or experience delusions, I would end myself. I certainly wouldn't claim it's "normal." I am afraid of things that aren't there. Besides, neither my family nor anyone else has noticed any hallucinations. The only thing is humming or complaining when the computer acts up 🤣. If I talk to myself internally, it's just me. Not Hitler or some voice. And I consider constructive thought to be a form of conversation. (For example, if I placed object A on board B, what would the pressure force be? I'd guess 2N. But that's irrelevant...) You get the point; it's a poor example, but that's the gist. These are the "official" symptoms, but I will highlight the ones I actually feel and those others have noted:

The DSM states the following characteristic symptoms:

a) Thought insertion or withdrawal, thought echoing or broadcasting; -none of that transmission stuff here. I had OCD previously, so there were compulsions related to that, like washing hands or dying!
b) Delusions of control, influence, or passivity relating to:
- body or bodily movements, -no 😲
- specific thoughts, actions, or sensations, -what specific ones? I wouldn't say any...
- delusional perceptions; -no 😲
c) Hallucinatory voices that: -no 😲
- comment on the patient's behavior,
- discuss the patient among themselves,
- various forms of hallucinatory voices emanating from a body part; -from where? Those things?
d) Persistent bizarre delusions that are impossible or inconsistent with the patient's culture and intellect: -haha, interesting, but I'm not an alien or anything
- impossible political, scientific, or religious identities,
- superhuman abilities or powers, e.g., controlling time,
- communication with extraterrestrials, etc.;
e) Persistent hallucinations of any modality when accompanied by transient delusions without emotional content, or persistent overvalued ideas, or when hallucinations are persistently present for weeks or months; -as I said, no!
f) Disorganized thinking, irrelevant and disorganized speech, neologisms (creating new meaningless words); -I wouldn't say that. My speech is perfectly normal. Except I am quite anxious about almost every word. Due to shame and fear.
g) Catatonic behavior - marked rigidity or maintaining unnatural postures, or extreme agitation; -no!
h) Negative symptoms such as apathy, poverty of speech, blunted affect, or inappropriate emotional response, which typically lead to social withdrawal and decline in social functioning. -that happened at the beginning, alongside the OCD. Perhaps my responses are inadequate?
i) Significant and persistent changes in behavior in terms of loss of interest, aimlessness, preoccupation with self, and social withdrawal. -this is the most prominent.

So, basically... I am certain I have no illusions, delusions, or hallucinations... Tinnitus? No, that isn't it.

The F20 diagnosis stands. If that's classified as paranoid, then the hallucinations aren't there. You would notice them in a house with four people constantly present. I dealt with intense suicidal ideation and increased aggression. What else? Perhaps grandiose, unrealistic plans? Or constant shifts in interests—gaming one day, sports the next. Given what exists:

In clinical studies, we distinguish several types of schizophrenia based on the dominant symptom groups.

The paranoid type is characterized by pronounced delusions and hallucinations. Most commonly, these involve persecutory delusions.
Disorganized or hebephrenic schizophrenia is dominated by symptoms of incoherent, disconnected, or illogical speech and disorganized behavior.
The catatonic type is quite rare today; it involves impaired posture, extreme purposeless motor agitation, or complete physical rigidity known as stupor.
If no specific symptoms predominate, it is referred to as undifferentiated schizophrenia.
Residual schizophrenia is characterized by an absence of prominent delusions, hallucinations, or disorganized speech/behavior, though evidence of the disorder remains through negative symptoms, odd beliefs, or unusual sensory experiences.

I don't fit into any of those categories. Honestly, I am unsure where I land. I don't feel better or worse without medication. For the last six months, it has just been insomnia and certain anxieties. Presumably, the psychiatrists know best. They likely "hit" the mark somehow, even if I don't recognize these primary symptoms.


Someone already suggested you might be a hypochondriac... and it doesn't make sense to me why a psychiatrist would diagnose you with schizophrenia involving visual and auditory hallucinations if you're claiming you don't have them. Why didn't you tell him during your check-up? Just tell him you don't have hallucinations! Otherwise, you might end up with a doctor who gets frustrated with you for not being honest, because it'll look like he's treating you with the wrong meds for schizophrenia with hallucinations when you don't even have those! You know?
I've seen cases where a doctor just gives up on a patient and tells them to find someone else.

As for sleeping, nothing worked for me except Dormicum! 😁
Ambien and all that other junk were too weak for me; I just couldn't drift off. With this, you get a really solid night's sleep, and most importantly, you don't wake up feeling groggy like you do with Ambien; your head feels completely clear.☕
Nicole Barrett76 Nicole Barrett76 Regular
515 messages
joined Sep 2009
#2774 ·
To those of you currently navigating life with Olanzapine, I wonder if this link might offer some meaningful insight for your journey?
Nicole Barrett76 Nicole Barrett76 Regular
515 messages
joined Sep 2009
#2775 ·
unspecified
Kenneth Scott41 said:Someone already suggested you might be a hypochondriac... and it doesn't make sense to me why a psychiatrist would diagnose you with schizophrenia involving visual and auditory hallucinations if you're claiming you don't have them. Why didn't you tell him during your check-up? Just tell him you don't have hallucinations! Otherwise, you might end up with a doctor who gets frustrated with you for not being honest, because it'll look like he's treating you with the wrong meds for schizophrenia with hallucinations when you don't even have those! You know?
I've seen cases where a doctor just gives up on a patient and tells them to find someone else.

As for sleeping, nothing worked for me except Dormicum! 😁
Ambien and all that other junk were too weak for me; I just couldn't drift off. With this, you get a really solid night's sleep, and most importantly, you don't wake up feeling groggy like you do with Ambien; your head feels completely clear.☕

Is it not possible that boldpilot2 simply struggled to articulate his thoughts clearly during the psychiatric session? Could it be that boldpilot2 is actually struggling with intense intrusive thoughts, and perhaps, instead of saying "these intrusive thoughts drive me to do this or that," he said "voices are driving me to do this or that," using the word "voices" metaphorically rather than literally? However, once a psychiatrist hears such a statement, they are professionally obligated to record the patient's words exactly as spoken, and unfortunately, a medical chart can show nothing but ink on paper. It cannot convey the tone, the pitch of the voice, or the specific gestures used when the patient spoke.
Nicole Barrett76 Nicole Barrett76 Regular
515 messages
joined Sep 2009
#2776 ·
I can substantiate this belief with a personal experience. I attended two sessions with an exceptional clinical psychologist who eventually referred me to a psychiatrist, as she suspected that I might be masking auditory hallucinations.

To be fair, she didn't explicitly tell me, "you are masking"; rather, she simply expressed deep concern for my well-being, noting that my situation presented more pathology than what is typically managed within standard psychological counseling, even with a licensed clinical professional. Since they lack the authority to prescribe medication—or so she informed me—I realized after reflecting on our discussions that I had been using the term "voices" metaphorically far too often, which led her to interpret my words quite literally. In truth, what I was actually struggling with were intrusive thoughts, but since I wasn't familiar with that specific terminology at the time, it was incredibly difficult to articulate my exact experience.

Now that I have acquired a broader understanding and a more specialized vocabulary regarding psychology and psychiatry, I find myself able to summarize my struggles much more concisely; however, this unfortunately creates a false impression for my assigned neuropsychiatrist. Because he perceives me as being more stable than I truly am, he rushes through our appointments—which barely last ten minutes—and insists that I maintain the exact same medication dosage I have used for months, even though I feel strongly that my dosage of unspecified should be increased from one pill to two.
boldpilot2 boldpilot2 Member
18 messages
joined Nov 2011
#2777 ·
unspecified
Kenneth Scott41 said:Someone already suggested you might be a hypochondriac... and it doesn't make sense to me why a psychiatrist would diagnose you with schizophrenia involving visual and auditory hallucinations if you're claiming you don't have them. Why didn't you tell him during your check-up? Just tell him you don't have hallucinations! Otherwise, you might end up with a doctor who gets frustrated with you for not being honest, because it'll look like he's treating you with the wrong meds for schizophrenia with hallucinations when you don't even have those! You know?
I've seen cases where a doctor just gives up on a patient and tells them to find someone else.

As for sleeping, nothing worked for me except Dormicum! 😁
Ambien and all that other junk were too weak for me; I just couldn't drift off. With this, you get a really solid night's sleep, and most importantly, you don't wake up feeling groggy like you do with Ambien; your head feels completely clear.☕

I am not, but I will be. I'm going to pick something up this morning for sleep and some mild anxiety. Thanks for the advice on Dormicum... though I got a little spooked seeing that it's given exclusively to people before surgery. It's just some substitute psychiatrist for my regular doctor. I'll ask him a few things first, then see my actual doctor in about a month. Still, maybe a second opinion is good? How long can you take Dormicum before it turns into useless candy? Meaning, when do you develop dependency or tolerance? I need something that knocks me out in about 30 minutes so I can sleep.

unspecified
Nicole Barrett76 said:unspecified

Is it not possible that boldpilot2 simply struggled to articulate his thoughts clearly during the psychiatric session? Could it be that boldpilot2 is actually struggling with intense intrusive thoughts, and perhaps, instead of saying "these intrusive thoughts drive me to do this or that," he said "voices are driving me to do this or that," using the word "voices" metaphorically rather than literally? However, once a psychiatrist hears such a statement, they are professionally obligated to record the patient's words exactly as spoken, and unfortunately, a medical chart can show nothing but ink on paper. It cannot convey the tone, the pitch of the voice, or the specific gestures used when the patient spoke.

Well, damn it, Nicole Barrett76, that's basically how it went. When I was 16 or 17, could I really have known the difference between intrusive thoughts and actual voices? And the old folks "educated" me plenty. Psychiatry and psychology were taboo topics in my family. Sexuality too. In OCD, there were intrusive thoughts. I just told my mother as a child, comparing them to things I was saying to myself—like battles or wars in my head—and eventually, it turned into voices. Now they've finally arrived and believe it like Moses crossing the Red Sea! Idiots... they believe a child experiencing it for the first time. They believe every single thing I say!
fadedbear92 fadedbear92 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Dec 2008
#2778 ·
Sedatives / Hypnotics

Basically, sedatives and hypnotics are drugs designed to induce sleep—and at higher doses, they can even lead to anesthesia or a coma. In smaller amounts, they act as sedatives, meaning they depress the central nervous system, leading to relaxation and drowsiness.

This group includes both barbiturate and non-barbiturate agents.

A sedative is essentially a medication (or a specific dose of a drug with a primary effect, like a hypnotic) used to calm someone down and ease anxiety.

They often cause drowsiness, and there's a real risk of developing a dependency.


Hypnotics, on the other hand, are the drugs specifically used to help people fall asleep—essentially treating insomnia. The term "hypnotic" is actually—

well, the term "sedative" comes from the fact that they calm you down in low doses, while high doses knock you out (making them hypnotics). That's why we use the dual term "hypnotic-sedatives."

Back in the day, doctors used barbiturates to treat insomnia, but they were largely replaced by potent benzodiazepines from

the same reason those older drugs stopped being used as anti-anxiety meds. There were also other options in play,

like chloral hydrate, bromisoval, methaqualone, and others, but all of those have been phased out. One of the most tragic

medical failures was definitely thalidomide.

In the early 1960s, thalidomide was being prescribed heavily to pregnant women for

calming purposes and to help with insomnia. What nobody knew at the time was that it was a highly teratogenic compound. By "teratogenic,"

we mean a substance has the ability to cause birth defects. Because of the use of

thalidomide, children were being born with limb deformities—so frequently that it actually alarmed the World Health Organization (WHO).

The drug was pulled from the market almost immediately. That whole disaster resulted in

much stricter procedures for getting new drugs approved and brought to market in the US.

Insomnia is considered a milder mental health issue. It can pop up for all sorts of reasons:

- Physical ailments (like a brain tumor, chronic pain, etc.)

- Emotional or psychiatric struggles (stress at work, marriage troubles, losing a loved one, etc.)

- Intense external stimuli (loud music from neighbors, street noise, etc.)

Since most hypnotics are drugs that easily lead to addiction and aren't exactly

harmless, using pharmacology to solve insomnia is generally seen as a last resort or just a temporary fix.

Most experts believe insomnia is just a symptom of another underlying problem—usually emotional,

social, or psychological. Therefore, ethically speaking, you should try to address and remove the root cause of the

insomnia first. Taking hypnotics indiscriminately over a long period isn't recommended due to the high

risk of addiction and making things worse. In fact, using a

hypnotic for more than two weeks is generally considered neither medically nor ethically justified.

While hypnotics do shorten the time it takes to fall asleep and can extend sleep duration, all hypnotics

actually alter the physiological structure of sleep. They shorten the phase where the brain gets its most rest and

processes everything gathered during the day—specifically, they shorten the REM phase. So, it’s no

surprise if people who take these drugs wake up feeling unrefreshed and groggy, almost as if they

didn't sleep at all.
It's clear that hypnotics cannot be, and are not, a serious solution to insomnia; they are

merely a potential short-term fix.

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fadedbear92 fadedbear92 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Dec 2008
#2779 ·
http://dl8.glitter-graphics.net/pub/...tkzpqr6d1w.gif

Insomnia can be broken down into:

- trouble falling asleep (onset insomnia)

- waking up frequently or staying awake (maintenance insomnia)

- feeling exhausted despite getting enough hours (non-restorative

sleep)

Classification by duration:


- Transient insomnia lasts for just one or a few nights (within

a single episode).
This is usually triggered by stress or

shifts in work schedules or environment—like dealing with jet lag

after a flight.

- Short-term insomnia typically spans from a few days up to three weeks. These types of

disruptions are often fueled by prolonged stress, such as

recovering from surgery or a minor illness, crushing

finals week at college, losing a loved one, or starting a high-pressure

new job.

- Chronic insomnia lasts for months or even years,
and is generally a reflection of

psychiatric issues, long-term medical conditions, medication side effects, or underlying

sleep disorders. It can be constant or come in

waves of bad sleep mixed with regular nights. A few nights of tossing and turning,

usually due to excitement or stress, is perfectly normal and

won't leave lasting damage. However, chronic

insomnia can be devastating, making it impossible

to handle daily responsibilities, messing with your mood, straining

family relationships, and increasing the risk of accidents

due to decreased alertness and drowsiness.

Classification by cause:

1. Psychophysiological Insomnia

Chronic insomnia of this type is essentially a behavioral pattern where

patients become hyper-focused on their inability to fall asleep. This

sleep issue often kicks off during emotional stress and then

persists long after the stressful period has passed. People suffering

from this tend to obsess over the effort required to drift off,

meaning the insomnia becomes a conditioned or learned response. Interestingly,

these individuals often find it easier to sleep when they aren't trying so hard or

when they are away from home. They struggle significantly with falling asleep, and often deal with night

awakenings too. Relaxation exercises are usually quite helpful for those

experiencing intense physical tension. In the early stages of treatment,

sleep aids might be used, though only for short-term relief.

It is also vital to focus on external factors and sleep hygiene, including

avoiding stimulating triggers right before bed.

2. "External" Insomnia

Environmental factors can trigger insomnia. Adaptive sleep disruptions—sometimes called

temporary insomnia caused by surroundings—can occur when our sleeping environment changes

(for instance, staying in a Marriott hotel room or a hospital bed), or following major

life events like changing careers, grieving a loss,

dealing with an illness, or stressing over work deadlines or exams. It can also happen

while anticipating big life milestones like a wedding, a first flight, or a big trip.

This manifests as difficulty falling asleep, frequent waking, or

waking up far too early. Usually, recovery is quick, occurring within about 2-3

weeks.

Poor sleep hygiene refers to improper

Certain bedtime habits or even just your bedroom setup can really mess with your rest. For example,

some people try to drift off right in front of the TV—leaving it

blaring all night—or they attempt to crash immediately after getting home from

work at midnight. Noise or bright lights can make it nearly impossible

to fall asleep; plus, you have to deal with a partner who might

have restless legs or snore loudly while you're trying to sleep.

Even digital clocks with glowing numbers can keep someone awake; it adds to the

anxiety when you're staring at the time ticking by, realizing how late it is, and

you just can't shut your brain off. Things like certain medications, heavy meals, intense workouts, or

even taking a hot shower right before bed can throw off

your ability to drift off.

People dealing with these issues should really try to build a relaxing nighttime routine

and make sure their sleeping environment stays comfortable. It’s also smart to

keep a consistent wake-up time. You should try to avoid

irregular sleep schedules and stick to the bed only when it's actually

time to sleep.


3. Altitude-induced insomnia


Spending time at high altitudes—like up in the Rockies—is often linked to sleep issues.

A common problem is periodic breathing, which happens because

there's less oxygen available at higher elevations. Waking up frequently and having

poor quality sleep are hallmarks of altitude insomnia, which usually hits hardest

during those first few days, though it can linger. Fortunately, certain

types of medication can help prevent this from happening.

Psychiatric disorders and sleep disturbances

Anxiety disorders, mood disorders, OCD,

and chronic alcoholism are all conditions tied to poor

sleep patterns.

Depression can manifest as trouble falling asleep, an inability

to stay asleep, or waking up far too early in the morning.

On the flip side, some people with depression experience excessive

sleeping, particularly college students or those dealing with seasonal

(fall/winter) depression. Sleep disruption is a major red flag for the illness and might

act as an early warning sign of an episode, potentially returning to normal

once things start looking up.

For chronic alcoholics, sleep issues are closely linked to decreased

alertness during the day. Often, sleep remains

disturbed for years even after someone stops drinking.

Neurological diseases and sleep disturbances

Neurological conditions can indirectly disrupt sleep through

physical pain or damage to the specific parts of the brain that regulate sleep.

Sleep can be hindered by dementia, epilepsy, and other neurological issues

involving involuntary movements, such as hemiballismus, Huntington's chorea,

or Parkinson's disease and Tourette syndrome.

Headache syndromes can lead to worsening sleep, though the exact mechanism

linking the two isn't quite understood yet.

Fatal Familial Insomnia is a rare hereditary disorder caused by

degeneration in specific areas of the brain. Insomnia is

usually one of the earliest symptoms. As the disease progresses, several other

disorders emerge that eventually lead to death.

Sleep disorders associated with other medical conditions:

- chronic pain

- the effects of various medications, such as steroids

- asthma—which has a very strong connection to sleep issues. Asthma

symptoms tend to flare up at night and disrupt rest. Additionally, some meds used

to treat asthma can cause sleep problems (like theophylline,

adrenergics, or glucocorticoids). Using inhaled steroids that don't interfere with sleep

It could serve as a helpful alternative when dealing with more severe sleep disorders

(such as bitemetazepam).

- reduced oxygen supply to the heart

- occasional nighttime breathing difficulties resulting from heart failure—which, in turn,

leads to pulmonary edema and acts as a major driver behind poor sleep quality

- chronic lung disease disrupts sleep due to

impaired gas exchange, a condition often worsened by lying down.

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Kenneth Scott41 Kenneth Scott41 Regular
457 messages
joined May 2009
#2780 ·
unspecified
boldpilot2 said:unspecified

I am not, but I will be. I'm going to pick something up this morning for sleep and some mild anxiety. Thanks for the advice on Dormicum... though I got a little spooked seeing that it's given exclusively to people before surgery. It's just some substitute psychiatrist for my regular doctor. I'll ask him a few things first, then see my actual doctor in about a month. Still, maybe a second opinion is good? How long can you take Dormicum before it turns into useless candy? Meaning, when do you develop dependency or tolerance? I need something that knocks me out in about 30 minutes so I can sleep.

unspecified

Well, damn it, Nicole Barrett76, that's basically how it went. When I was 16 or 17, could I really have known the difference between intrusive thoughts and actual voices? And the old folks "educated" me plenty. Psychiatry and psychology were taboo topics in my family. Sexuality too. In OCD, there were intrusive thoughts. I just told my mother as a child, comparing them to things I was saying to myself—like battles or wars in my head—and eventually, it turned into voices. Now they've finally arrived and believe it like Moses crossing the Red Sea! Idiots... they believe a child experiencing it for the first time. They believe every single thing I say!


If you truly want something to knock you out in half an hour so you can sleep soundly, I’d say go with Dormicum. It isn't strictly true that it's only for pre-op use; people certainly do use it for other things, which is exactly why it works so effectively. I remember feeling a bit uneasy myself when I first read about its surgical applications 😁. I thought it might be something heavy like general anesthesia, but it really isn't. Sometimes I have to take two just to drift off. Mind you, it's a habit... you really have to be extremely careful with Dormicum because if you get hooked, you're in serious trouble. Personally, I only use it very rarely, specifically when I've been tossing and turning for two hours and simply cannot fall asleep. Not every day, though!

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