Started by Charles Ross3 · · 👁 770 views · 9.2K replies
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Matthew Young35 said:Precisely.
Did I suggest anything else?
In war, civilians die. That is an inescapable fact.
That is why war itself is a crime.
And that is why Russia committed a crime when they invaded Ukraine.
Is there something you aren't grasping?
Matthew Young35 said:Precisely.
Did I suggest anything else?
In war, civilians die. That is an inescapable fact.
That is why war itself is a crime.
And that is why Russia committed a crime when they invaded Ukraine.
Is there something you aren't grasping?
| According to various sources and photographic evidence reviewed by The Washington Post, Ukraine has developed a system of wooden decoys designed to mimic American rocket systems. These replicas have successfully tricked Russian forces into squandering expensive, long-range cruise missiles on nothing more than hollow shells. |
Matthew Young35 said:It’s war.
Did you honestly think only the Russ would be dying?
Timothy Williams5 said:Mykola Osychenko, a volunteer and community activist who heads up a local news station, told a local news station that insider reports suggest morgues in Mariupol have already documented 87,000 deaths, though those figures are nowhere near the final count.Beyond the 87,000 officially logged cases, countless residents lie buried in unidentified mass graves. Current estimates suggest the number of identified bodies has reached 26,750.
On top of that, many victims are buried in the yards of apartment complexes and private homes, and a significant number of people remain trapped beneath the rubble.
"The estimates we're seeing are horrific, but this isn't over. We haven't finished exhuming bodies from courtyard graves, nor have we finished pulling them out from under the ruins of collapsed buildings. The numbers coming out of Mariupol are devastating," Osychenko remarked.
He also noted that people aren't looking toward the federal government for answers so much as they are questioning their local officials. There were no evacuation orders issued, and there was a distinct lack of prepared shelters, aside from those located within the steel plants.
https://bykvu.com/eng/bukvy/87-000-d...-media-report/
Keep in mind, this news actually dates back to August 18th.
https://dnipro.tv/dumka-eksperta/myk...fpbgr0yoaMfKgc
goldenowl73 said:I think you might have mixed up your categories or maybe just worded things a bit clunkily. Russian civilians aren't the ones dying in this war.
Pro-war internet trolls have launched a targeted campaign against the acclaimed singer Manizha Sangin after she spoke out against the conflict in Ukraine. As a direct result of calls to boycott her music, many of her scheduled summer tour dates have been canceled.
Manizha, known for representing Russia at Eurovision 2021, took to Instagram to state that the invasion was "against the will of the Russian people," describing the violence as "fratricidal."
She also released a song titled “Soldier” just weeks after the fighting broke out in Donbas. The track repeatedly urges soldiers to "stop the war," even though new laws now threaten public figures with up to 15 years in prison simply for using terms like "war" or "invasion" to describe the Russian military actions in Ukraine.
In retaliation for her vocal opposition to the invasion, pro-war factions have flooded the internet, urging the public to report Manizha to the Department of Homeland Security as someone "engaged in public actions aimed at discrediting the Russian Armed Forces."
The backlash hasn't stopped at reports; she has also received threats, with some social media users warning her not to return to Russia from France, where she had traveled to visit her sister following a car accident.
Another tactic employed by online agitators against Manizha involves leaking the contact information of her concert promoters and inciting followers to flood them with demands to cancel her upcoming shows.
One message circulating on Telegram explicitly instructs people to "write in" and "demand that Manizha's performances be canceled because she opposes the Russian military."
Consequently, Manizha has been dropped from the lineup of the Stereoleto family festival. On Facebook, the festival organizers claimed the cancellation was "due to reasons beyond our control," while the festival's founder, Ilya Bortnyuk, stated the decision was "correct given the current circumstances."
The Moscow Glavclub also pulled Manizha from their schedule following the organized smear campaign.
However, not all organizers are bowing to the pressure from pro-war internet mobs. In an earlier statement, the organizers of the Alexandrovskay krepost folk music festival noted, “Unfortunately, we did receive a significant volume of negative emails and calls from individuals who seem dissatisfied with Manizha’s support for peace. However, we see no contradiction in her stance, as peace is a necessary prerequisite for celebrating diversity and multiculturalism.”
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Matthew Young35 said:I’m not looking to equate anything. I'm just pointing out what is plainly obvious.
Thomas Walker84 said:Take it easy; this isn't some gutter, it's a civilized forum. 😠
The city is a mass grave 😢 At least you can still maintain a shred of dignity and respect.
Kate Cook27 said:87,000
26,000
Unidentified civilian bodies are being found in mass graves
Reports say there are thousands in those mass graves—still unidentified—and thousands more trapped under the rubble. That probably refers to the second figure, the 26,000. The first number represents those currently in the morgues.
Eight years and only two shelters... thankfully, nobody died there. Sometimes I feel like this is all just a bad dream. Mariupol has turned into one giant mass grave.
Matthew Young35 said:I have zero interest in hypocritical outcries or performative "dignity."
I feel for the people killed in this reckless Russian aggression against Ukraine—where an appalling number of crimes have been committed—but that won't change how I speak.
Yes, I will find it strange, and frankly, jarring, every single time someone acts surprised that civilians are dying in droves.
And yes, I will swear if I want to when someone misinterprets my disbelief as "false equivalence," "relativism," or "rationalization."
It isn't any of those things. It is simply the sheer astonishment that anyone could be shocked by the massive loss of civilian life.
| I’m truly saddened by the lives lost in this reckless Russian aggression against Ukraine. So many horrific crimes have been committed in this conflict. But... It won't change the way I speak my own language. |
| Yeah, I’ll probably still find it hard to wrap my head around whenever I hear about mass civilian casualties. It just feels wrong every single time. I’ll swear if I want to if someone decides to label my genuine confusion as "equivalence," "relativizing," or just making excuses. Not really—it’s more just pure disbelief that anyone could be unaware of how many civilians are losing their lives. |
Thomas Walker84 said:Is everyone else just being hypocritical and putting on an act? ☕
Quincy:Wow, what a strong personality. 🤣
I’m truly saddened by the lives lost in this reckless Russian aggression against Ukraine. So many horrific crimes have been committed in this conflict. But... It won't change the way I speak my own language.
These are always interesting to follow.But...Even when they include those nonsensical follow-ups in their statements.
Thomas Walker84:You're essentially a victim of a misunderstanding here. It’s sad and unfortunate, so I can definitely get why you're feeling so righteous and angry, but our primary sympathy has to go to the victims in Ukraine, specifically in Mariupol.
Yeah, I’ll probably still find it hard to wrap my head around whenever I hear about mass civilian casualties. It just feels wrong every single time.
I’ll swear if I want to if someone decides to label my genuine confusion as "equivalence," "relativizing," or just making excuses.
Not really—it’s more just pure disbelief that anyone could be unaware of how many civilians are losing their lives.
Matthew Young35 said:What "but"? Where exactly are you seeing a "but"?
We are discussing the Russian aggression against Ukraine.
I still find it strange that someone is only just now realizing that a horrific number of civilians have been killed.
That was expected from the very start of this war.
The same goes for the massive number of wounded, the refugees, and the children left without parents.
War is an evil thing, and these are the realities of war.
I truly don't see where you found a "but" in my words, nor do I understand why you'd think I lack empathy for the victims.
ironpuma29 said:No matter how this conflict settles—and it will—whether Ukraine manages to reclaim everything now or ends up losing parts of its territory for a while... TEMPORARILY.
We'll see a new Israel emerge eventually.
Armed, with top-tier defense and an intelligence agency even sharper than Mossad.
A strong democracy and a prosperous society.
The criminals won't be able to hide in a hole somewhere to escape justice.
Something like this simply cannot, and must not, go unpunished.
Damned warmongers...
GLORY TO UKRAINE, GLORY TO THE HEROES
For most Russians, none of that actually registers. They would much rather turn a blind eye to the humanitarian and moral catastrophe unfolding right in front of them by choosing to swallow Russian propaganda instead.
I don't think the issue here is that Russians are being "zombified" by state television; rather, it feels more like a deliberate blindness and deafness—a conscious filtering and suppression of any information that might make them uncomfortable.
As a consequence, the genocide remains unrecognized by the vast majority of the Russian population. To them, the fascists are always "the others"—the Ukrainians, the Americans, or the Germans you see in old war movies—never themselves.
A collective mentality, even if it doesn't actively cheer for war, serves to normalize it and turn it into just another routine. That is where the core of the problem lies: war crimes aren't viewed as exceptional events; they are treated as a standard of civilization. This is simply how Russia conducts war—dirty, bloody, indiscriminate, and leaving a massive trail of bodies in its wake.
| For most people living in Russia, none of this actually seems to register. They’d much rather just look the other way and ignore the humanitarian and moral catastrophe unfolding right in front of them, choosing instead to swallow whatever propaganda the Kremlin feeds them. Why bother facing a grim reality when you can just believe the lies? |
| I don't think we’re actually dealing with a case of Russian television "zombifying" people. That feels like an oversimplification. To me, the real issue lies in a deliberate choice—a sort of willful blindness and deafness. They aren't just being misled; they are actively filtering out and suppressing any information that might make them uncomfortable. Why is it so much easier to ignore the truth than to face it? |
| As a direct consequence of all this, the Holocaust remains completely unacknowledged by the vast majority of the population in Russia. In their eyes, "fascists" are always someone else—it’s always the Ukrainians, the Americans, or those stereotypical Germans you see in old war movies—never them. Is it really that hard to look in the mirror? |
| There's this collective mindset at play where, even if people aren't actively cheering for war, they somehow normalize it until it just becomes part of the daily routine. That’s really where the core issue lies: war crimes stop being viewed as extraordinary atrocities and start being treated as some kind of civilized standard. It’s the signature Russian way of fighting—dirty, bloody, completely indiscriminate, and leaving a trail of bodies in its wake. |
Christian Torres3 said:I occasionally tune into ABC or CNN, and honestly, their coverage of the war on the ground feels totally abstract. It’s like the conflict isn't even happening.
